Interlagos confirmed this morning by Ian Bell on GTP:
Link
Might be in the main game, might be as additional content.
Link
Might be in the main game, might be as additional content.
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Project CARS 2 discussion thread (provisional release date: Septemberish 2017)
- Thread starter Mascot
- Start date
DemonCleaner
Member
lighting looks still bad.
Sweeeeet. I Hope they can finish It before release.
TJP
Member
Feeback on pCARS 2 from the Sector 3 forums. I remain cautiously optimistic about the release.
Original post: https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads/the-project-cars-thread.1073/page-24#post-104596
stbm said:
Original post: https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads/the-project-cars-thread.1073/page-24#post-104596
The PARAMOUNT for Pcars2 should be developing the default setup and FFB profile that is applicable to all vehicles.
Pcars one situation, where player should first determine the default detup for particular car and then make a separate wheel adjustment is multilayered complication that killed the game for me.
Pcars one situation, where player should first determine the default detup for particular car and then make a separate wheel adjustment is multilayered complication that killed the game for me.
Ian Bell has been posting over on GT Planet this week, and talked quite a bit about the improvements to joypad control. I think he said it's exclusively how he controls the game during testing now.
endlessflood
Member
I still use your controller settings for the original. You did a great job, but it was still polishing a turd.
TheAdmiester
Member
Speaking of which would someone mind reposting those settings?
endlessflood
Member
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=163213630
It's still pretty bad, but it's definitely a lot better.
TheAdmiester
Member
Cheers.
Not sure where I should post this (if at all), but I thought it was an interesting point of discussion.
Now, we know a lot of console users felt "burnt" by PCars, and I mentioned that they may have to do a lot of bridge building to overcome that.
I also questioned how much of a good idea releasing PCars 1 for free with GwG, as this just opens the product up for more people to see how badly the game (can) perform on consoles, the XBO version is doubly bad due to the performance levels that are worse than the PS4 version.
Well, the most recent reviews on the XB Marketplace make sad reading
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/p/project-cars-digital-edition/bwd6mg147s5j#ratings-reviews
So the question is, where does the team go now to try and court console users?, is it even a factor?, are they even bothered about it?
I am a serious car game fan, and for me to be questioning if I should buy a racing game, then things must be bad.........
Now, we know a lot of console users felt "burnt" by PCars, and I mentioned that they may have to do a lot of bridge building to overcome that.
I also questioned how much of a good idea releasing PCars 1 for free with GwG, as this just opens the product up for more people to see how badly the game (can) perform on consoles, the XBO version is doubly bad due to the performance levels that are worse than the PS4 version.
Well, the most recent reviews on the XB Marketplace make sad reading
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/p/project-cars-digital-edition/bwd6mg147s5j#ratings-reviews
So the question is, where does the team go now to try and court console users?, is it even a factor?, are they even bothered about it?
I am a serious car game fan, and for me to be questioning if I should buy a racing game, then things must be bad.........
You are probably giving it too much thought? It's not like PC1 was the first game to let down people. I mean, I don't think SMS need to go the extra mile to convince anyone that their new product is good.
Edit: This has nothing to do with consoles, though. There're tons of PC users that got burnt by PC1 as well.
Edit: This has nothing to do with consoles, though. There're tons of PC users that got burnt by PC1 as well.
Quite possibly.
TylerDurden4321
Member
I wouldn't worry about GwG, people are used to "try" the GwG titles, don't like them, uninstall, forget. Those people won't play the way long enough to get angry about it.
Let me tell you about my 2 worries for SMS:
Reviews
Most people seem to think that metacritic scores have become less important in the last few years and personally I think that only holds true for mediocre review scores of games, where people see what they are getting anyway: Fallout 4 for example, you played 3 and NV and Skyrim, see the screenshots of 4 and some minutes of gameplay, you know what you're getting, feel the itch and buy it, if review scores aren't abysmal. Other example where review scores used to matter are the unknowns that have fantastic review scores, but these days prices fall so fast and backlogs are so full, there is much less of a need to jump on the secret hits right away.
Where review scores still matter are niche games that can give the average guy that itch, that "wow, that looks awesome... and you can do WHAT in that game?! Fuck yes, I need that!" feel. If you have that itch and the reviews are full of praise, then the day1/full price buying chance is still really high even nowadays.
Project CARS can scratch that itch with the sound, the weather and the lack of games that filled the Gran Turismo itch on PS4 (good single player campaign needed though).
Project CARS 1 had really good review scores, but I always felt that many of the reviewers thought of pCARS1 as this super hardcore thing that is just not for them, but that is no reason to give it a bad score if it's for other people. Bigger review outlets have reviewers who know their hardcore racing games, but most probably don't have people like that. Many must have seen pCARS as this refreshing hardcore alternative to GT and Forza, which both didn't look great to the average reviewer at that time (Forza 5 more of the same in better looking but low on content, GT6 lost in the past). Project CARS had the fantastic sound, the lighting and weather and an insane amount of tracks, if you were good at this game, how could you not love it. Just because you as the reviewer suck at it doesn't mean that it's not great for others who are good at it.
Now to where I see the problem: Reviewers have seen other hardcore racers like DiRT Rally or Assetto Corsa, the novelty factor is out. And what if the reviewers will have new GT (it looks fantastic, sounds already better, will probably control really well and what if the online play is as great as it's supposed to be; it could be killer) and a new Forza (probably over 600 cars and developed with Scorpio power in mind, also reviewers seemed to really have liked FH3).
Another factor for review scores is the performance and reviewers seem really fed up with games that have framerate/-pacing issues these days. Had pCARS come out now with how it performed on XB1, reviewers would have banged on framerate issues much more than they did with the back-then prominent 900p issue.
Date
I think the release date of pCARS 2 and those of other racing games will have strong effect on sales. Unfortunately I don't really have a clue what will be the best scenario. It depends on how good it is and what it has to offer compared to the other games.
Scenario 1:
- pCARS 2 out shortly before Forza and GT
people will probably wait, price will already have dropped, less day1 money
Scenario 2:
- pCARS out shortly after Forza and GT
- Forza more of the same as 5 and 6 and GT low on content and people angry about online focus, pCARS 2 looking good and gets good review scores
pCARS2 will sell a shit ton of copies
Scenario 3:
- pCARS out shortly after Forza and GT
- Forza back to FM4 greatness and looking amazing on Scorpio and PC and performs well on PC too, GT with some really good SP content and looking and sounding amazing, online works and gets great word of mouth
It won't matter if pCARS2 gets good review scores, it won't sell well and people will wait with their purchases
Scenario 4:
- pCARS out long (6 months+) after Forza and GT
- Forza back to FM4 greatness and looking amazing on Scorpio and PC and performs well on PC too, GT with some really good SP content and looking and sounding amazing, online works and gets great word of mouth
Average players might be ready again for a new sim'y racing game, but there will be GTR3 (raceroom sound + Unreal 4 graphics) and maybe a new GRiD with graphics from the Evolution guys on the way that people might wait for.
Either way, it's tougher out there now, especially if you rely on selling over 1.5 million copies in the first year again. An Assetto Corsa and even DiRT 4 have the advantage of being profitable much earlier (AC with less employees and DiRT4 with Codemasters with probably 4 titles in 2 years =less risk per title)
Let me tell you about my 2 worries for SMS:
Reviews
Most people seem to think that metacritic scores have become less important in the last few years and personally I think that only holds true for mediocre review scores of games, where people see what they are getting anyway: Fallout 4 for example, you played 3 and NV and Skyrim, see the screenshots of 4 and some minutes of gameplay, you know what you're getting, feel the itch and buy it, if review scores aren't abysmal. Other example where review scores used to matter are the unknowns that have fantastic review scores, but these days prices fall so fast and backlogs are so full, there is much less of a need to jump on the secret hits right away.
Where review scores still matter are niche games that can give the average guy that itch, that "wow, that looks awesome... and you can do WHAT in that game?! Fuck yes, I need that!" feel. If you have that itch and the reviews are full of praise, then the day1/full price buying chance is still really high even nowadays.
Project CARS can scratch that itch with the sound, the weather and the lack of games that filled the Gran Turismo itch on PS4 (good single player campaign needed though).
Project CARS 1 had really good review scores, but I always felt that many of the reviewers thought of pCARS1 as this super hardcore thing that is just not for them, but that is no reason to give it a bad score if it's for other people. Bigger review outlets have reviewers who know their hardcore racing games, but most probably don't have people like that. Many must have seen pCARS as this refreshing hardcore alternative to GT and Forza, which both didn't look great to the average reviewer at that time (Forza 5 more of the same in better looking but low on content, GT6 lost in the past). Project CARS had the fantastic sound, the lighting and weather and an insane amount of tracks, if you were good at this game, how could you not love it. Just because you as the reviewer suck at it doesn't mean that it's not great for others who are good at it.
Now to where I see the problem: Reviewers have seen other hardcore racers like DiRT Rally or Assetto Corsa, the novelty factor is out. And what if the reviewers will have new GT (it looks fantastic, sounds already better, will probably control really well and what if the online play is as great as it's supposed to be; it could be killer) and a new Forza (probably over 600 cars and developed with Scorpio power in mind, also reviewers seemed to really have liked FH3).
Another factor for review scores is the performance and reviewers seem really fed up with games that have framerate/-pacing issues these days. Had pCARS come out now with how it performed on XB1, reviewers would have banged on framerate issues much more than they did with the back-then prominent 900p issue.
Date
I think the release date of pCARS 2 and those of other racing games will have strong effect on sales. Unfortunately I don't really have a clue what will be the best scenario. It depends on how good it is and what it has to offer compared to the other games.
Scenario 1:
- pCARS 2 out shortly before Forza and GT
people will probably wait, price will already have dropped, less day1 money
Scenario 2:
- pCARS out shortly after Forza and GT
- Forza more of the same as 5 and 6 and GT low on content and people angry about online focus, pCARS 2 looking good and gets good review scores
pCARS2 will sell a shit ton of copies
Scenario 3:
- pCARS out shortly after Forza and GT
- Forza back to FM4 greatness and looking amazing on Scorpio and PC and performs well on PC too, GT with some really good SP content and looking and sounding amazing, online works and gets great word of mouth
It won't matter if pCARS2 gets good review scores, it won't sell well and people will wait with their purchases
Scenario 4:
- pCARS out long (6 months+) after Forza and GT
- Forza back to FM4 greatness and looking amazing on Scorpio and PC and performs well on PC too, GT with some really good SP content and looking and sounding amazing, online works and gets great word of mouth
Average players might be ready again for a new sim'y racing game, but there will be GTR3 (raceroom sound + Unreal 4 graphics) and maybe a new GRiD with graphics from the Evolution guys on the way that people might wait for.
Either way, it's tougher out there now, especially if you rely on selling over 1.5 million copies in the first year again. An Assetto Corsa and even DiRT 4 have the advantage of being profitable much earlier (AC with less employees and DiRT4 with Codemasters with probably 4 titles in 2 years =less risk per title)
Sorry for the long read.
xrnzaaas
Member
lol wat, even if GTS will get some spectacular SP content post release it won't happen in a manner of weeks or even months imo
Also I think that it's very important how people will react to the changes, devs promises and new elements introduced in pCARS 2. A lot of them may end up thinking there's no reason to switch from pCARS 1 to pCARS 2 or that it's too risky to buy it at launch considering countless issues with the first game after it was released.
onemanasylum
Banned
Sorry if this has been touched on, big thread, any news on PSVR support? After playing VR I don't want to go back without it.
It's "planned", so make of that what you will.
onemanasylum
Banned
I hope it comes to fruition.
Still kinda agree with your post though, so many things about the game at launch felt incomplete + wheel suport on PS4 which wasnt their fault at all but really muddied the waters. Still feel like i havent gotten the game i was looking for, even though it might be in a decent state the space in which i was hyped for it has disappeared.
TylerDurden4321
Member
This is not the thread for this, but what good SP content did GT5 and 6 have?
- You do license tests, which will be there in GT Sport and probably really good ones if you can even get a racing license in some countries for seeing through with it,
- there were races against Ai you get money and stars for, that you can use to unlock cars and events. And you still can race against AI in GTS and probably make custom championships. The real difference is the lack of the carrot on a stick in the offline modes. Hard to call gating-of-content an SP campaign.
Also the motorsport encyclopedia/museum feature will be back (wasn't there in 6) and you get to paint cars for the best photography mode in any car game ever.
It's really not much of a set-back in SP content and SP campaign even at launch (car and track content will be low, but that's not primarily an SP problem).
By any metric, pCARS 2 will be a full-blown sequel, not just pCARS 1.1.
I think the reasons to change will be very evident.
PeterLegend
Member
You can make the argument many ps4 owners jumped on project cars 1 cuz GT was not available however since GT sport is coming this year i dont think PC2 will sell very well on the PS platform
I don't know, man. I'm way simpler than that, it seems. I don't like playing gamedev simulator or publisher simulator, so my answer always ends up being something along the lines of: Make a great game.
Project CARS 1 had potential to be a great game. And argueably it was a great game. It was a game of peaks though. Very high and very low moments all along. In the end, when you spend a lot of time with it, the low moments start to wear you down and kinda make you forget about the highs, but they are there, that's for sure.
What I really don't understand, or I do understand, but I don't agree with, is the constant look back at PC1 to try to understand what PC2 can bring in. PC1 was what it was and there were a number of reasons why it was what it was. But these reasons don't carry into PC2, so you can't really understand PC2 by looking back at PC1. I know people are trying to find answers to questions they have in their heads by looking back. But is it really a valid solution? I don't think so.
What strikes me as really odd is that you don't often see people requesting other devs to have to prove themselves so much, other than by releasing great games. And I think that's the only viable way here: release a great game and people will eventually learn the truth about your game, just like when you don't, they eventually learn as well. People that are weary of the idea of having the same experience should just wait and see. They don't need to be there day one or anything like that.
Project CARS 1 had potential to be a great game. And argueably it was a great game. It was a game of peaks though. Very high and very low moments all along. In the end, when you spend a lot of time with it, the low moments start to wear you down and kinda make you forget about the highs, but they are there, that's for sure.
What I really don't understand, or I do understand, but I don't agree with, is the constant look back at PC1 to try to understand what PC2 can bring in. PC1 was what it was and there were a number of reasons why it was what it was. But these reasons don't carry into PC2, so you can't really understand PC2 by looking back at PC1. I know people are trying to find answers to questions they have in their heads by looking back. But is it really a valid solution? I don't think so.
What strikes me as really odd is that you don't often see people requesting other devs to have to prove themselves so much, other than by releasing great games. And I think that's the only viable way here: release a great game and people will eventually learn the truth about your game, just like when you don't, they eventually learn as well. People that are weary of the idea of having the same experience should just wait and see. They don't need to be there day one or anything like that.
After about 4 patches, I'd tend to agree, but the pad controls were always bad.
For me, it was the attitude of the developer after the game was released that left a sour taste, the game was in a poor state at release, and customers were derided by the developer on their forum, rather than the dev saying, "yup, it's not in a great place, but give us time", they basically said "STFU stupid plebs".
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Don't know if it's been mentioned that you can pre-order PC2 at Best Buy
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/project-cars-2-playstation-4/5762300.p?skuId=5762300
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/project-cars-2-xbox-one/5762301.p?skuId=5762301
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/project-cars-2-playstation-4/5762300.p?skuId=5762300
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/project-cars-2-xbox-one/5762301.p?skuId=5762301
My opinion is that after 11 patches, the game is still in an unacceptable state. It's super buggy, it's super cumbersome and it's super not prepared to do whatever you want to do. So you need to find a bazillion workarounds to make anything work just slightly like you'd wish it'd work. But the experience of driving, even if the physics and FFB sometimes fall apart and have some problematic behaviours, is second to none when it comes to represent the thrill and unpredictability of a race.
About your edit, I fully understand. I just got warned at WMD2 because some confusion that came from my use of words (and after expressing that I did not mean what they understood, and was probably a language barrier), so I'm not going to cut them any slack, but understanding the realities of development should give some insight on what was happening (and why happened), when the official forums opened. It's got to do with stress, I'll say that much.
It may be too late for a lot of people but the bullish post-launch bravado now seems replaced by a much more self-aware corporate persona. Ian Bell, Bruno and The_American have all openly admitted to shortcomings in the first game and outlined plans to rectify them.
None of us are naive enough not to realise that it's easier to be critical of your old work when you have new work to promote, but the honesty has still been refreshing.
None of us are naive enough not to realise that it's easier to be critical of your old work when you have new work to promote, but the honesty has still been refreshing.
TylerDurden4321
Member
I am really excited for Project CARS 2. The weather, the lighting, engine sound, look and feel of the tracks(it really really feels like your racing in a different part of the world from track to track), laserscanned Nordschleife with day-night and dry-wet transition as well as some of the cars I've heard from 2 insiders that they should not have been talking about really have me excited for it. So much, that even I'm surprised at how excited I am for this after how I feel about pCARS1.
But when it's out and I try it and it feels like pCARS1 and has the same "problematic behaviours" physics-wise like say how cars behave when braking and steering at the same time with different brake-balance settings or the unrealistic bottoming-out of way too many cars (very apparent at the Fuchsröhre on the Nordschleife) then there is a very good chance that I'm gonna refund it. That's not a minor issue minor issue that sometimes distracts from how good the game is, it's major "this is all garbage!"-annoyance, especially when many other games with much smaller teams have a perfectly fine understanding of the physics and car setups.
Really, the physics that I see, hear and feel (through the wheel) should not remind me of pCARS1 and "SMS-title", but rather remind of ISI, SimBin, iRacing or AC. I hope they acknowledge the shortcomings of pCARS1 compared to other titles in that area.
At the moment I really don't know if they do and my excitement hangs on a thin thread.
What I hear is new FFB with less tweaking options, invisible wall glitches have been tested to death... that's good, great even, but at the same time it sounds like "took our old stuff, build upon it and made it better" when actually quite a few areas might have needed a back-to-the-drawing-board approach. That I remember how SMS reacted to people's critique after pCARS1 doesn't help much either (but I do see that there are many morons who have no idea how a car should behave but keep on shouting about the wrong the game is in areas where it's more than accurate enough... that would anger me too, if I were a dev, must be hard to be self-reflective in that climate).
Spaceman Spiff
Member
I'm not going to pile on with justified skepticism after the rollout of the original game and its aftermath; so long as this sequel provides a more playable experience out-of-the-box, without having to spend an inordinate amount of time fiddling with menus and settings, (which by all accounts seems to be the case), go ahead and sign me up.
Reading that GTP thread and seeing confirmation of proper FIA WEC/IMSA WeatherTech multiclass racing is basically all I need, really. Even little things, like having GTE and GT3 as separate classes now makes this sportscar racing dork a very happy one.
Reading that GTP thread and seeing confirmation of proper FIA WEC/IMSA WeatherTech multiclass racing is basically all I need, really. Even little things, like having GTE and GT3 as separate classes now makes this sportscar racing dork a very happy one.
Silver Arrows
Banned
This is my opinion as well.
And really, it should be lauded that at the very least, we have competition within the hardcore sim scene on consoles. And it certainly tells Polyphony Digital that if they are going to disappoint with yet another lackluster title that seems to touch all the bases yet never really commits a whole lot, then we can easily take our money somewhere else.
With my internet basically down and nothing to do, i revisited some old games. Put on fm6 for a few races but got bored to tears after 15 min. On a whim i fired up pcars. Not sure why, i havent played since a few weeks after launch when my career was ended by the pit crew forgetting to put tires on your car bug and i didnt want to break out and set up my wheel. I figured id just putz around akwardly using the pad till i got bored with this too.
But, to my surprise, i played the same track for an hour straight just racing. The pad actually felt pretty good! I assume that too saw some significant work in post launch patches? And the feel of the cars, authenticity of the racing, and immersive time of day/weather/cameras are fantastic. Im breaking out the wheel for the weekend to play.
Even more excited for pcars2 now
But, to my surprise, i played the same track for an hour straight just racing. The pad actually felt pretty good! I assume that too saw some significant work in post launch patches? And the feel of the cars, authenticity of the racing, and immersive time of day/weather/cameras are fantastic. Im breaking out the wheel for the weekend to play.
Even more excited for pcars2 now
This is probably going to get me killed in here, but I really wish for some sort of rewind function in the game. And before you go at me, my reasoning is that as a player with a controller and a TV I don't have nearly the same sense of presence in as an actual driver in a race, therefore it would be fair to compensate for that with some sort of feature. Then also add wonky AI and other factors to that.
And ofc with a clear trade-off.
And ofc with a clear trade-off.
GHG
Member
It's a much better racing game than anything else on console at the moment. By and large it wasn't the on track experience that people had issues with.
It's not happening.
There's no shame in playing easier dificulties. And there's no shame in finishing not first. One thing you should probably learn to enjoy a game like this is that you are battling against yourself. So a rewind function doesn't really fit. Races can only be understood through success and through failure as well.
I don't want to downplay other franchises, but I think GT and Forza have made a lot of harm to the racing genre because the 3 laps races format where you need to win to advance is so, so, so far away from what racing is about.
GHG
Member
Well said. I was about to post something similar. Rewind is used as a way of making the game easier more often than not by most players who use it. Key components of getting better at these games are concentration, calmness and consistency (as it would be on the track in real life). Rewind does not help you with any of those things.
If you want to learn the track (apexes, braking points, etc) then there is free practice mode and there's the driving line (which I also think does more harm than good for players learning how to actually race but that's for another discussion) which can help you more than a rewind feature ever would.
I think there are many unfair things about the point you make.
Completely agree with what you said about not being first, but that also demands a sorta fleshed out career mode where long term progress is being made. Think the early F1 games from Codemasters where pretty good about that, starting at as a rookie just passing to Q2 seemed so huge.
The point about battling yourself, agree there aswell. Love time trials in racing games more than probably anything really. Shaving time from laps really can capture the beauty of driving, but in racing that means the AI needs to be damn near perfect (close to human). Any unfair collision or crash and the premise of you racing gets thrown out the window as wonky AI decided the faith of that race.
It also goes sorta together with my first post, sense of presence from actually being in a vehicle is nowhere near the gaming experience, it would be fair to give the player some sort of feature as I can never as efficient in avoiding accidents with a pad.
Also, just generally, as long as that feature doesn't hurt other people, let players have it.
Silver Arrows
Banned
Exactly. The sim racing community is pretty much tribal warfare, with regards to what kind of handling model and racing experience they prescribe to. And then they try to badmouth other games that aren't like that.
FWIW: in terms of rewind, the only game I really use it in is Forza 6, because I am NOT dealing with trying to come back to the front of the pack, especially with regards to Drivatars and their tendency to be aggressive and not do very well with regards to pack racing.
I understand where you are coming from, but the rewind function is only a work around, not a real solution.
About gamepads and all that stuff, I run a community and most people play with wheels, but there's a couple that play with a gamepad and they kill it. So, yeah, you can be competitive and have great racecraft with a gamepad.
I'll tell you one thing, though. I've gotten to know a TON of people that always complain about AIs (with a reason) and when they get to play against other humans, they play exactly the same way as AIs do. Driving and racecraft are two entirelly different worlds. One can have problems driving with a gamepad, but racecraft is in the head, not in the hands.
Edit: Download Crew Chief and enjoy.
Don't doubt people abilities with a pad, but as somebody who previously owned a wheel and now has been forced to play with a pad. Its just not the same. Feel like we are discussing different things though.
Sure, somebody totally reliant on rewind will never be able to put on a clean and fast lap on any given track. But why shouldn't people be given the option to use that if they have no intention of being good at time trial. Rewind will limit the players ability to grow, but thats a choice the player needs to make.
Remember the time trial we did here on GAF. Would have loved to use rewind in order to practice specific turns on the tracks, putting all of that together is my responsibility.
We certainly are talking different things here, I'm afraid.
Of course, I'm not against more features. But I'm certainly more in favor of some features over others. Features don't come for free, there're always tradeoffs. I'm glad SMS are investing their time in features that I think are more crucial to the player experience.
TylerDurden4321
Member
I too think that rewind is a fantastic feature for track learning, but the games that have rewind don't encourage to use it in practice mode, it's there to undo your fuckups during a race so can achieve unrealistic feats like pos 16 to 1 in 3 laps in a not really much better car.
Nero is right that more options are always good.
Fresquito is right that stuff like rewind and the driving line aid encourages bottom feeding and keeps people from getting better and having more fun in the process
The best of both worlds would be to have the features, but to encourage not to use them.
A good and bad example at the same time for that are the Forza games. If you use driving aids, you used to earn significantly less money, it encourages players to at least try it once without Traction Control, which might be hard but there is a good chance that they'd find out how restricting Forza's garbage TC is and how much more control they can have over the car if they master driving it without TC (the bad part is the "garbage TC" that lets even average drive easily put in better lap times in LMP-type cars without TC, but think of production cars that didn't even have TC in real life and then the earn-more-with-less-aids makes sense again).
It's kinda problematic in games that don't gate cars, tracks or championships -> how to encourage stuff if everything is unlocked anyway?
For the driving line, a thing between "driving line ON" and OFF could be the GT Sport system, that points out brake points, turn-in points, apex and out-markers on the side of the track. Even for pro drivers this could be a great feature if they've never a certain track before. For some players the jump from driving-line and no-driving line can be really punishing... I think the minority of GT and Forza players really knows track layouts by heart. Then there is the FOV, braking right with bad FOV is soo much harder (and which casual player tries to set the FOV right?).
If you really want no rewind in the game, how about an extra mode that lets you pick a section or even just a single corner of a track and try that over and over again with a delta-bar timer running - just so you don't have to complete the whole lap everyt time if you just want to try some things with just one corner or section. (The Gran Turismo License tests do that a lot, I definitely had some Ahaaa!-moments in those tests - though some were just silly hard to get gold in, especially in GT5)
Nero is right that more options are always good.
Fresquito is right that stuff like rewind and the driving line aid encourages bottom feeding and keeps people from getting better and having more fun in the process
The best of both worlds would be to have the features, but to encourage not to use them.
A good and bad example at the same time for that are the Forza games. If you use driving aids, you used to earn significantly less money, it encourages players to at least try it once without Traction Control, which might be hard but there is a good chance that they'd find out how restricting Forza's garbage TC is and how much more control they can have over the car if they master driving it without TC (the bad part is the "garbage TC" that lets even average drive easily put in better lap times in LMP-type cars without TC, but think of production cars that didn't even have TC in real life and then the earn-more-with-less-aids makes sense again).
It's kinda problematic in games that don't gate cars, tracks or championships -> how to encourage stuff if everything is unlocked anyway?
For the driving line, a thing between "driving line ON" and OFF could be the GT Sport system, that points out brake points, turn-in points, apex and out-markers on the side of the track. Even for pro drivers this could be a great feature if they've never a certain track before. For some players the jump from driving-line and no-driving line can be really punishing... I think the minority of GT and Forza players really knows track layouts by heart. Then there is the FOV, braking right with bad FOV is soo much harder (and which casual player tries to set the FOV right?).
If you really want no rewind in the game, how about an extra mode that lets you pick a section or even just a single corner of a track and try that over and over again with a delta-bar timer running - just so you don't have to complete the whole lap everyt time if you just want to try some things with just one corner or section. (The Gran Turismo License tests do that a lot, I definitely had some Ahaaa!-moments in those tests - though some were just silly hard to get gold in, especially in GT5)