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Project Cars 2 Review thread

B

bronzodiriace

Member
JackAubrey said:
Project Cars - at least the first one, not played the second - had controller issues that weren't about the car physics.

There was a disconnect between controller and cars, feeling like you were controlling something that was then controlling the cars. It often felt like playing the pad, rather than the car.

It led to moments where things went wrong and it felt unfair. Where you didn't feel you'd made a mistake, but the controls mistranslated your intentions.
Click to expand...

I agree with your comment. An invisible hand that spin your car in a 360 without making a mistake looking at the telemetry.
 
E

eizarus

Banned
Woooooh! Been wanting a racing game since I got bored of Driveclub over a year ago. Glad to see this is good.

Edit: awww it's not out for another few days.

Wow going through this thread has really put it into doubt for me 🤔
 
Xcell Miguel

Xcell Miguel

Gold Member
They just tested Monaco with rain on Gamersyde's stream, tunnel still gets flooded with water and is undrivable, except for the AI :/
 
N

NullPointer

Member
GSY Miguel said:
They just tested Monaco with rain on Gamersyde's stream, tunnel still gets flooded with water and is undrivable, except for the AI :/
Click to expand...
Got a link by chance? That sounds... bad.

Would like to see it to get an idea what "undrivable" means here and see how the AI tackles it.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
GSY Miguel said:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/175758048

Go to 1:31:30
Click to expand...
Thanks for this. And Yikes.

Even more apparent was the tearing, and at 1:31:33 you can see the building ahead magically shunt itself over 10 feet or so to the side for some reason.

This game looks like it needed a bit longer to cook.

In terms of features and content and vision, this is the sim racer I want to get, hands down, but not at this point in time. Hopefully the devs show this game some real post-release love, because even these speed bumps can be ironed out over time.
 
D

draughn101

Member
NullPointer said:
Thanks for this. And Yikes.

Even more apparent was the tearing, and at 1:31:33 you can see the building ahead magically shunt itself over 10 feet or so to the side for some reason.

This game looks like it needed a bit longer to cook.

In terms of features and content and vision, this is the sim racer I want to get, hands down, but not at this point in time. Hopefully the devs show this game some real post-release love, because even these speed bumps can be ironed out over time.
Click to expand...

I think that this is the part that shouldn't be forgotten, and probably why the reviews we so good despite the bugs. It just has too much motorsports goodness for me to pass up on. The improved handling is the best part, but I can't wait to run all 500 miles of the Indy 500, etc. I'll deal with the bugs and will roll with the punches. Unless one of the other Sim racers decides to come to Xbox, this'll be my jam.

You're right with the speed bumps as well. The fixable part of the game has some issues. Not the handling/physics or a lack of content.
 
C

coiler

Member
Out-takes from Gamersyde PS4 stream:

-45s loading of 31cars at Monaco- not that bad,
-no AA on cars?,
-nordschleife lacks detail, even the tarmac colour is off,
-they have ver. 1.0.0846 and AI sucks no mater what you set.
 
F

fresquito

Member
coiler said:
Out-takes from Gamersyde PS4 stream:

-45s loading of 31cars at Monaco- not that bad,
-no AA on cars?,
-nordschleife lacks detail, even the tarmac colour is off,
-they have ver. 1.0.0846 and AI sucks no mater what you set.
Click to expand...
Last built we got at WMD2 was 851. Looks like they haven't updated.
 
W

Waldo Lydecker

Member
Just watched some reviews but holy hell, this game looks so graphically uneven. Some tracks look like PS2 quality with low res textures and silly looking trees. It gives me some PS2 Toca racing driver vibes: sometimes poor and uneven graphics but a lot of content and probably good gameplay.

But yeah, compared to GT Sport and Forza 7 it looks a generation behind.
 
M

Mascot

Member
TJP said:
What's with the passive aggressive posts Mascot?
Click to expand...
Like this question of yours? ;)

Nothing p/a about it. You misread the tone. I'm genuinely relieved that land mines seem to have been eradicated in pCARS 2 because they were deep in the code in pCARS and seemingly unfixable.

Edit: I also cannot read..!
 
D

DD

Member
Maintenance said:
With PCars this is like a tradition. Buying the game before at least 3 major patches is asking for trouble.
Click to expand...

PC1 was trouble even after 12 patches.

Hell, all SMS games are. On paper they sound like something out of dreams, then reality hits hard. Maybe they should push down their high ambitions and set themselves up to deliver something that actually runs and plays well. Once they get that, they should go back to their usual grandiose. I mean, these guys couldn't get circuit racing with perfect asphalts right for four games straight, so why the f* they decided to add offroad racing now instead of fixing what they should have fixed in NFS Shift 2?
 
M

Mascot

Member
fresquito said:
Last built we got at WMD2 was 851. Looks like they haven't updated.
Click to expand...
With BN dropping bollocks all over the place I wonder if some "review" code sent out is actually outdated dev code? Might explain some of the contradictory review comments.

Also: did nobody at WMD2 ever drive the Monaco tunnel in a storm. Like, ever?
 
Fox Mulder

Fox Mulder

Member
I can wait. F1 2017 is fun and I'm also not going to pick up Forza 7 until the Xbox X at earliest as I'm just not feeling that game at all.
 
T

TylerDurden4321

Member
DD said:
PC1 was trouble even after 12 patches.

Hell, all SMS games are. On paper they sound like something out of dreams, then reality hits hard. Maybe they should push down their high ambitions and set themselves up to deliver something that actually runs and plays well. Once they get that, they should go back to their usual grandiose. I mean, these guys couldn't get circuit racing with perfect asphalts right for four games straight, so why the f* they decided to add offroad racing now instead of fixing what they should have fixed in NFS Shift 2?
Click to expand...
Looking at that sidewall flex video of the Lotus 49 from while ago, it kinda seems they did try that, spend most of their time getting the drive to feel right right and good, with good FFB that doesn't ask you to set it right on your own for every single car and controller tweaks that make it much more playable without a wheel. What I've heard from the last months, it seems their were dedicating more work on the ai, so they know that this is next. Hopefully they still get to the replay stutter and have all invisible, mid-track walls fixed before pCARS 3.

But if the driving feels right, consistent and believable with good FFB, I won't refund my copy even without any working AI - the car and track list plus track 3.0 is something I couldn't pass up on.

I gotto check some Nordschleife vids now to see of what coiler said is true about the track surface color, really didn't like it in pCARS1, looked grey-dry and chalky like drywall. pCARS2 seemed improved on the tracks I've seen.
Edit: Checked it, surface looks fine. Not the same love to detail as the RaceRoom version, but servicable, I'll live.
 
I

isamu

OMFG HOLY MOTHER OF MARY IN HEAVEN I CANT BELIEVE IT WTF WHERE ARE MY SEDATIVES AAAAHHH
Where the hell are the Oculus/Vive impressions!?!?!?!?!?! I gotta a Rift that's ready to french kiss this game!

GSY Miguel said:
They just tested Monaco with rain on Gamersyde's stream, tunnel still gets flooded with water and is undrivable, except for the AI :/
Click to expand...

WAT
 
H

HueyFreeman

Banned
GSY Miguel said:
They just tested Monaco with rain on Gamersyde's stream, tunnel still gets flooded with water and is undrivable, except for the AI :/
Click to expand...

Persona RS said:
With the patch 1.03 installed, the AI pile up still happens with the exact same settings as the Gamersyde video.

If I reduce the opponent skill to 60, there's no accident. But with 100 opponent skill, the pile up happens every time on Monaco.
Click to expand...

It’s honestly kind of had to believe the game shipped with these bugs. Like how could a Monaco AI pile up that happens 100% of the time not have been caught by testers.

isamu said:
Where the hell are the Oculus/Vive impressions!?!?!?!?!?! I gotta a Rift that's ready to french kiss this game!
Click to expand...

Must.. resist... tag quote...
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
HueyFreeman said:
It’s honestly kind of had to believe the game shipped with these bugs. Like how could a Monaco AI pile up that happens 100% of the time not have been caught by testers.
.
Click to expand...

Oh come on. Let's at least give the devs the benefit of the doubt. There's no way this is actually 100% of the time, more likely closer to a true 98%
 
N

Noobcraft

Member
op_ivy said:
Oh come on. Let's at least give the devs the benefit of the doubt. There's no way this is actually 100% of the time, more likely closer to a true 98%
Click to expand...
It's more troubling to me that the AI cars ignore puddles than the fact that the tunnel floods.
 
Hawk269

Hawk269

Member
GSY Miguel said:
I made some clips, was too funny:
https://clips.twitch.tv/ToughApatheticOysterTriHard
https://clips.twitch.tv/ArbitraryDistinctHerdPlanking

And Monaco's flooded tunnel:
https://clips.twitch.tv/ChillySourAuberginePeteZarollTie
Click to expand...

This is just sad. I loved the first game, was one of the funders and been paid 4x as much from the sales of the game. Them being a small studio and what they did with the first game was just amazing. They should of delayed this until some of these things were fixed. This will turn some people off and may not give it another look after watching the AI and other issues. I know every game has issues, but these are pretty damn bad. I hope they can patch it quickly.
 
GHG

GHG

Member
TJP said:
Add this to the list of reviews :)

https://pretendracecars.net/2017/09/18/alternate-reality-rfactor-the-review-of-project-cars-2/
Click to expand...

They're actually relatively positive about it:

It’s a great league platform, a sort of alternate-reality rFactor 2 in which the physics are still firmly on the hardcore simulation side of things (aided by great default setups), yet the obscure car and track list of rFactor 2 that actively works against the title – marred by fake tracks and irrelevant vehicles – have been replaced by what’s basically an all-star cast of locations and race cars featuring appearances from all of the major players, and then some. Basically, if you’re a sim racer who patiently awaits for updates from Studio 397 in the hopes that the next lone piece of content they announce is even the least bit captivating, or for general UI improvements, or… well… anything that isn’t a blog post, Project CARS 2 offers a permanent solution to those willing to cross over.

However, it also comes with some of the problems found in rFactor 2, and on a wider scale, problems that appear in basically every other racing simulator on the market today. The offline racing experience varies wildly depending on your vehicle of choice, and like rFactor, there are hiccups with the underlying AI simulation engine when you try to accelerate through a session. But at the same time, the phenomenon of cars in rFactor 2 being wildly out of sync with each other in terms of quality, doesn’t exist here – there are exponentially more hits compared to misses, and it’s definitely an upgrade compared to the other sims available.

Regardless of whether you plan on entering a league right away, or will be holding off until the built-in functionality is up and running, Project CARS 2 is the simulator a lot of people wanted – great handling, lots of marquee cars, lots of world-renowned tracks, and online lobbies that naturally lend themselves to league play – but at the same time it also demonstrates why the smorgasbord approach is getting a bit long in the tooth. When Project CARS 2 is firing on all cylinders, it’s objectively a great racing simulator, warranting the positive reviews received from the more mainstream outlets while making genuine improvements in several key areas that sim racers would be hard pressed to dismiss. When it stutters – figuratively, not literally – you understand it’s because the dev team just couldn’t possibly refine every last car on every last track, and maybe it’s time to collectively rethink where the genre is going.
Click to expand...

Basically when it works (which is most of the time), it's fantastic but because of the amount of freedom on offer to the player there will be edge case scenarios (certain conditions and difficulty levels, paired with certain tracks/cars) that can produce unexpected results.

But of course, some people will refer back to the same handful of videos that display the latter in order to try and depict the whole game as broken.

Whatever, I put over 100 hours into it during the beta period and while it's not perfect, it's a fantastic racing game in all the areas that matter most to me. I look forward to another 100 hours and it being improved further.

Noobcraft said:
It's more troubling to me that the AI cars ignore puddles than the fact that the tunnel floods.
Click to expand...

It looks like he has traction control on.

HueyFreeman said:
It’s honestly kind of had to believe the game shipped with these bugs. Like how could a Monaco AI pile up that happens 100% of the time not have been caught by testers.
Click to expand...

That's because it doesn't happen 100% of the time.
 
E

endlessflood

Member
GHG said:
because of the amount of freedom on offer to the player there will be edge case scenarios (certain conditions and difficulty levels, paired with certain tracks/cars) that can produce unexpected results.
Click to expand...
Your customers shouldn't be the ones testing your game for you. If your game doesn't function under certain easily reproducible conditions, you need to know about it and fix it.

I'm sorry, but this sort of stuff doesn't get a free pass. Your AI system needs to be able to navigate the corners of a track in traffic. If you have a dynamic puddle system, then you need to know where the water will end up on your tracks.
 
TJP

TJP

Member
GHG said:
They're actually relatively positive about it
Click to expand...
I'd be amazed if PRC didn't give a good review as Austin was given a race car and PC by Ian Bell.

That said, pCARS 2 seems to be a solid release from SMS and I'm happy to have another option to play.
 
GHG

GHG

Member
endlessflood said:
Your customers shouldn't be the ones testing your game for you. If your game doesn't function under certain easily reproducible conditions, you need to know about it and fix it.

I'm sorry, but this sort of stuff doesn't get a free pass. Your AI system needs to be able to navigate the corners of a track in traffic. If you have a dynamic puddle system, then you need to know where the water will end up on your tracks.
Click to expand...

Well I'm sure they're aware of it now and it will get fixed at some point. In any game where you give the player absolute control over so many variables (number of cars on track, all season weather, time progression, a difficulty slider, tire compounds, assist sliders, etc, etc) there will always be instances that slip through the cracks. It's one of those games that can have the highest of highs but also the lowest of lows. The highs have outweighed the lows for a lot of people both in frequency and weighting, hence the overall positive reviews. If you want a game that strips the player of absolute control and doesn't try anything different/new in order to deliver a number of pre-defined and pre-tested scenarios then there are alternatives. The review posted above touches on it as well:

The single player AI are also a point of significant concern, though while a lot of other websites claim the AI competence is “random”, there’s actually a pretty distinct method to the madness. When driving any modern car that makes use of proper racing slicks, the AI are on par with the current crop of simulators, and this year there are both skill & aggression sliders to ensure that if you’re a talented sim racer, you’ll have a decent field of bots to battle with. I took a fleet of GT3 cars to the Nordschleife, jacked up the skill slider beyond 100% – which is new for this game – cranked up the aggression as well, and received an on-track product that was a night and day difference compared to the first iteration of Project CARS. No, it’s absolutely not a replacement for human competition and shouldn’t be treated as such unless you’re stupid, but it’s in-line with what you’ll experience from other simulators, and for a lot of people, that will be absolutely fine.

Oval racing, another new addition that was left out of the last game, is also quite good. I hate using footage from an older build to prove my point, but this is more or less what you can expect from slugging around the IndyCars – they’re respectful of your space, and put up a good fight.

Where the AI falters, is when you take away mechanical grip. If you’re talented enough to wheel any historical car, such as the ever-popular Lotus 49, you will outright murder the AI on 120% skill / 100% aggression. The AI just cannot cope with such a drastic reduction in traction, to the point where in a short race at Oulton Park in which I started on pole, I couldn’t see the cars behind me after a single lap. At the Nordschleife, I was coasting behind the pack, the AI bots so concerned with giving each other room and adhering to the track limits, they ended up scrubbing off copious amounts of speed. Unfortunately, this is a by-product of creating a smorgasbord simulator with cars of all shapes and sizes – the AI have clearly been optimized for one general type of car, and the outlier vehicles suffer the consequences in pretty drastic ways. Again, all this really does is make me advocate for simulators that focus on a very core group of vehicles, as stuffing a product full of cars that drive fundamentally different from each other and hoping it all works clearly isn’t the right way to go about things.

So what’s going to happen is that some sim racers who race only modern endurance content will more or less come away from Project CARS 2 quite pleased with the AI improvements, whereas fans of historic content or cars that don’t use full-on modern racing slicks will be absolutely furious that they’re stomping the field – or experiencing situations like the video above. It’s very rFactor-like in that you’re going to have to figure out manually what works, where, and what difficulty settings should be used. I’m not a big fan of this, but I certainly look forward to the rFactor fanboys slamming Project CARS 2 for this very reason, only to retreat to a game that exhibits the exact same problems.
Click to expand...

Overall it depends on what you want out of a racing game and what's important to you. SMS games have never been known for polish. If you want polish then stick with Forza but then you'll be making compromises in other areas.

If anyone is wondering what it looks like maxed out on the PC in 4K when things are working then this is a good playlist on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/ZmIFEkfyoIY?list=PLCLeSTzz6trZT51ZxSM28gih82l_K7mi4
 
J

Jimrpg

Member
Fox Mulder said:
I can wait. F1 2017 is fun and I'm also not going to pick up Forza 7 until the Xbox X at earliest as I'm just not feeling that game at all.
Click to expand...

I just read PRC's F1 2017 review, its got me hyped and I'm in as soon as I finish up PES 2017 and Yakuza Kiwami.
 
F

fresquito

Member
Maintenance said:
Polish is not something you want to miss though, that's the same weak response from Bethesda fans and their "jank", that shit is inexcusable.
Click to expand...
That's a pretty generic statement. I'd rather have an interesting game that works 99% the time than a forgettable game that is highly polished. You can think that Monaco video is representative of the game experience, but it is not unless all you do is play Monaco with that car (probably some other old beasts as well)..

I was telling this all the way: a game this complex will have inconsistencies no matter what. But this is not PC1 where core elements were broken (not that I know of, at least), but a game that will need some patching because you can't get all the variables right at first try.

89 MC score on PC. It's either because the overall experience is great or because a small studio like SMS moneyhatted all media outlets
 
GHG

GHG

Member
fresquito said:
That's a pretty generic statement. I'd rather have an interesting game that works 99% the time than a forgettable game that is highly polished. You can think that Monaco video is representative of the game experience, but it is not unless all you do is play Monaco with that car (probably some other old beasts as well)..

I was telling this all the way: a game this complex will have inconsistencies no matter what. But this is not PC1 where core elements were broken (not that I know of, at least), but a game that will need some patching because you can get all the variables right at first try.

89 MC score on PC. It's either because the overall experience is great or because a small studio like SMS moneyhatted all media outlets
Click to expand...

Sums it up for me as well.

The greatest irony is the fact that the game is now 60fps on consoles and runs smoothly but instead people moan that the graphics aren't good enough this time around? But yet last time people on consoles wanted all the framerate and were even saying they should cut effects to get there? I. Don't. Understand.
 
Yui's Empire

Yui's Empire

Member
People should stop excusing broken launches, period. I'm sorry but if I go to Monaco in career mode and 9 times out of 10 I gotta restart the race because the AI can't stop Verstappening the start it's a major issue, and it's not even the only track apparently. Bugs aside it could be the best game ever, but people have every right to complain and wait for major patches before jumping in. I bought PC and it was a mess on consoles for a variety of reasons. I intend to buy PC2 down the line, but only if I'm positive there won't be dumb bugs like these.
 
Bobnob

Bobnob

Member
So last night i watched quite a few vids of pcars 2 and now o can't wait for friday, ps4pro version as also got me hyped for the x1x version.The game looks mint to me (i only hotlap and do online league racing so idc about ai)
From what ive read and seen AI isnt as bad as some make out.
 
A

AbandonedTrolley

Member
Sorry but tearing on a racer is a no go for me, they managed to pretty much patch it out on the first game, I'll wait to see what the patches bring for this one before purchasing.
 
F

fresquito

Member
FairyEmpire said:
People should stop excusing broken launches, period. I'm sorry but if I go to Monaco in career mode and 9 times out of 10 I gotta restart the race because the AI can't stop Verstappening the start it's a major issue, and it's not even the only track apparently. Bugs aside it could be the best game ever, but people have every right to complain and wait for major patches before jumping in. I bought PC and it was a mess on consoles for a variety of reasons. I intend to buy PC2 down the line, but only if I'm positive there won't be dumb bugs like these.
Click to expand...
Of course people have the right to complain. Wait and see sounds like a great approach for those not willing to experience any hiccup. Myself? I will continue enjoying the best racing I've experienced behind a toy wheel while I maintain that that Monaco video is not representative of the overall experience.
 
Yui's Empire

Yui's Empire

Member
fresquito said:
Of course people have the right to complain. Wait and see sounds like a great approach for those not willing to experience any hiccup. Myself? I will continue enjoying the best racing I've experienced behind a toy wheel while I maintain that Monaco video is not representative of the overall experience.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, I myself enjoyed games far more broken than this, but people on the fence should definitely wait and see what happens, and I think after the mess that was PC1 on consoles (insanely low framerate with many cars, horrible gamepad handling, etc.) a lot of people are at the least cautious.
 
J

Jimrpg

Member
Branson said:
Looking forward to that unbiased PRC review.

But on a serious note I am probably going to wait to see how a couple of the general Sim Racing YouTube channels think about it before making any purchasing decisions. Mainstream outlets are a bit hit or miss on what lines up with a good racing sim.
Click to expand...

I can't believe PRC work for SMS and are reviewing the game! Is this real life?

And to your second point - mainstream outlets can't review anything that isn't a AAA or hit indie title anymore.
 
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