I think they mean the software based emulation, and official supported emulation, not hacks. Sony, obviously could do it, but they won't, is what they're saying.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PS2 on PS4 - how can Sony save this
- Thread starter Jack The Nipper
- Start date
I think they mean the software based emulation, and official supported emulation, not hacks. Sony, obviously could do it, but they won't, is what they're saying.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Sony shouldn't have moved backwards from their initial PS1 support. They nailed that.
You could buy a game for $6-$10 off PSN and play it on your Playstation devices. Any of them that had PSN support. On the go, on the TV, it's all crossbuy and it's all good. And, holy shit this is a miracle by today's standards, but the discs worked. You could play the games you already bought, without having to buy them again. Unheard of in 2017 on consoles, but somehow that did used to be a thing.
Then with PS2 classics everything started going downhill. No disc option despite being emulation accessible through homebrew, you had to rebuy everything. No crossbuy. Then on PS4 they require trophies and shit, and PS1 support was dumped entirely.
Since nobody actually cares about backward compatibility they aren't seeing any meaningful backlash for it, PS4 is still doing great. So they don't have any incentive to improve their backward compatibility/classics support beyond the terrible state they are in now. Hard to blame third parties, if you have to put effort into dumping your 10+ year old game on PSN, why not just outsource a cheap remaster and sell it for 2-3x as much?
You could buy a game for $6-$10 off PSN and play it on your Playstation devices. Any of them that had PSN support. On the go, on the TV, it's all crossbuy and it's all good. And, holy shit this is a miracle by today's standards, but the discs worked. You could play the games you already bought, without having to buy them again. Unheard of in 2017 on consoles, but somehow that did used to be a thing.
Then with PS2 classics everything started going downhill. No disc option despite being emulation accessible through homebrew, you had to rebuy everything. No crossbuy. Then on PS4 they require trophies and shit, and PS1 support was dumped entirely.
Since nobody actually cares about backward compatibility they aren't seeing any meaningful backlash for it, PS4 is still doing great. So they don't have any incentive to improve their backward compatibility/classics support beyond the terrible state they are in now. Hard to blame third parties, if you have to put effort into dumping your 10+ year old game on PSN, why not just outsource a cheap remaster and sell it for 2-3x as much?
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Yeah.. But he's wrong. The 80GB PS3's did support disc based PS2 emulation via software.
Probably the worst attempt at ladling out the cold hard truth of reality to date honestly.
There's really no good reason for MS to have an advantage at all in this area... backwards compatibility was something that Sony were previously making everyone look awful at in comparison. The limitations we have now are pretty much all business related, excluding the PS3. They may well not be able to release all of the thousands of PS2 games digitally, much like MS isn't able to simply throw Too Human up for XB1... that's not really the point here though. If the games were crossbuy, as the PS1 purchases were, then the lineup for PS2 on PS4 would more likely be an aggregation of the PS2 games currently on PS4, and the PS2 games that were released to PS3 prior... now though they're a completely separate list of games, and the fact that some were released last gen just makes them even less appealing for publishers to release again. The PS1 games didn't suffer this fate, and so you didn't have to pray for Ridge Racer Type 4 to see another wholly separate release, that needs to justify the extra development time in new sales to exist... only for you to have to rebuy it again if it actually does make it over. It's a shitty situation, that needn't be the case.
It didn't. The one you're thinking of emulated the CPU, but still had a real graphics chip on the system.
Sony was working on a pure software emulator that worked with discs on the PS3, but the compatibility was horrible and they never enabled it.
I mean MS allows you to do exactly this with their backward compatibility programming on Xbox One.
ethomaz
Banned
PS2 to PS3 had less releases than PS2 to PS4 at the same timeframe.
PS2 to PS4 already has 41 titles in 1 year and 5 months... it will probably will pass lifetime PS2 to PS3 next year with 3 years.
I think the good thing about PS2 on PS4 games is that the work done on them is a one-time thing. Ideally, all that would need to be done to move them to PS5 and beyond is to port them to the new emulators as is. People may hate the trophy inclusion, but having one uniform library where all games behave the same way is an ideal situation.
Teletraan1
Banned
I think with the PS4 they decided that since the line was broken with PS3 and they weren't going to emulate that they just ditched the whole thing. One of the appeals of the OG PS3 for me was it's ability to play everything that came before it. I used to buy a lot of Classic games on that system. I still would if they would work on PS4. Fuck off with Trophies and let me play the games I paid for on your service, which would spur on more purchases.
I stopped counting at some point, but according to the lists on wikipedia, PS2 on PS3 in NA had over 50 games by that time. Considering that it still got a steady stream of games beyond that, I don't see PS2 on PS4 ever taking over. It's also worth mentioning that games published by Sony and Rockstar make up more than half the titles released so far.
Agent X
Member
Please don't move the goalposts here. You know from the context that we were discussing PS1 and PS2 games. Nobody expects Sony to offer full backward compatibility for PS3 games on PS4 (which, BTW, Microsoft also does not offer with Xbox 360 games on Xbox One). Sony could make an effort to match Microsoft's policy when it comes to PS1/PS2 games on PS4, and that's what people have been hoping for them to do over the last few years.
Only reason I haven't invested much in PS2 games on PS4 had been because they lack the selection that I want to play. I'm not interested in playing Rockstar a back catalog of games anymore, and I'm not all that interested in The majority of what's been pushed out so far and the likelihood that games I really want to see be put on the store is going to happen is almost none.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
If they could add in online functionality for the fighting games or something that'd actually bring value to the table that's just not there currently.
Those Black Ops II online numbers say otherwise. Backwards Compatibility might be what pushes me off of Sony's platforms, since they can't be trusted to let your content migrate from platform to platform. That's a major issue for me. I got rid of my PS3, I have 50-60 PS1 games and a handful of PS2 games. I want to play some CTR or Ridge Racer Type 4 on my PS4, for what good reason can't I? There isn't one.
The closer we get to the all-digital future, the more this is going to become an issue. This is something that most consumers expect now when upgrading from one device to the next.
ChoppedandScrewed
Member
The fact that they're forcing me to re-buy everything on the PS4 is what makes me avoid the classics in the shop. I already had a nice collection going on the PS3 that's basically worthless now since I don't plan on plugging it in anymore.
At least offer a substantial discount on the PS4 for people who already bought the game on PSN, if they're trying to justify charging people again on the new trophies.
At least offer a substantial discount on the PS4 for people who already bought the game on PSN, if they're trying to justify charging people again on the new trophies.
There will probably be some new feature added next gen, causing them to start the whole thing over from scratch with us complaining why PS2 on PS5 couldn't just leave shit the way it was so we didn't lose all the games we bought again.
ethomaz
Banned
That probably won't happen unless PS5 won't use x86.
That'd have very little to do with it tbh. If the PS5 has some new OS-level feature, lets say similar to Miiverse... then that'd be the same situation as PS2 games lacking trophies today. Again you'd have the games lacking functionality that's now considered standard, and the addition of them would require revisiting them on a game by game basis... thus justifying it being classed as a completely separate product again...
And you'll tell us that the new feature is the hamburger.
There's no "one time thing" for something like this, beyond making the game and being done with it.
ethomaz
Banned
Being more accurate I was wrong... PS3 received 10 more games at the same timeframe.
PS2 to PS3 games (US Store)
Released: 120
Removed: 4 (due license issues)
2011: 11
2012: 32
2013: 50
2014: 15
2015: 10
2016: 1
2017: 1
17 months (Oct 11 to Feb 13): 51
PS2 to PS4 games (US Store)
Released: 41
Removed: 0
2015: 13
2016: 25
2017: 3
16 months (Nov 15 to Mar 17): 41
Edit - Fixed PS3 numbers... one game was counted twice because the bonus edition.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Not sure if I forgot about that, or if I just never knew. At least somebody is doing things decently.
mikezilla2
Member
I know Red Dead Revolver was removed. Oddly enough, it's back as a PS4 classic.
ethomaz
Banned
I just checked US Store (some were not removed from EU stores)...
Need For Speed: Most Wanted
Raiden III
Red Dead Revolver
Tak 2: The Staff of Dreams
And my number are off for PS3 because I counted the same game twice (the normal version and the bonus limited version)... I fixed it.
BigEmil
Junior Member
On PEGI site it says Ape Escape 3 release date was December 2016 but it's not released still likely put on hold because they're busy with the Parappa, Patapon, Locoroco remasters which they announced at PSX 2016 which was at December
http://www.pegi.info/en/index/global_id/505/?searchString=Ape+escape+3
http://www.pegi.info/en/index/global_id/505/?searchString=Ape+escape+3
I wont rebuy any of my massive ps2 collection if it doesnt have trophy support.
Its the only reason i would pay again for games i already have.
Its why i bought Dark Cloud 2 and Rogue Galaxy... Trophy support gave me incentive to rebuy AND replay them.
Pretty much this Sony cant be trusted after the shamefull treatment of its longest customers with ps1 classic support. Maybe they will mandate leader boards or online play something to make people repurchase games.
funkystudent
Member
"We changed a setting in our emulator to output in 4k. That will be another $20"
Yes. But that certainly wasn't because of PS2 on PS3 digital games. That was because you could take any PS1 or PS2 disc and play it on every console they released.
You are arguing that a small bandaid could cover a gaping wound. I'm arguing you could apply it but it still wouldn't do anything. It wouldn't be enough to cover any fears going forwards in generations.
fvng
Member
We will be next gen by that point.
The bottom line is there are too many obstacles in getting ps2 games on ps4 that don't need to be there.
And there's no reason they couldn't still offer that. The emulator they used for PS2 Classics on PS3 was perfectly capable of playing games back from disc, they simply chose to restrict it. This isn't something that MS should have an advantage on at all... their solution isn't even capable of playing the game back directly from disc, they have to allow you to download the new executable, and then the disc is just used to authenticate it.
You think they can emulate PS3 on PS4? lmao
40 games per year and a half would leave us with 160 games for a 6 year generation. That'd be 60 more than XB1's BC launched with. The PS2 has 2501 games listed on Wikipedia... sure not all of them would be able to be made available again, but 160 of them is a really sad portion of them.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
It's so frustrating knowing that it would be really easy for PS4 to support PS1 and PS2 discs and digital but not getting it for so long. Hopefully Scorpio leads to Xbox winning at least in the US month after month as I believe it would light a fire under Sony to finally do something about this.
ethomaz
Banned
Emulate Cell is the real deal here... maybe PS5.
Agent X
Member
It's been six months since the last post in this thread, and a lot has happened since that time.
At E3 in June, Microsoft announced their intent to bring games from the original Xbox to Xbox One. Yesterday, they finally made that a reality.
Microsoft's feature list for "Xbox games on Xbox One" is almost identical to that of "Xbox 360 games on Xbox One". You get improved performance (graphical enhancements, screenshot/video capture), cross-buy carryovers with the digital releases sold on Xbox 360, and the ability to use the original disc without having to repurchase the game. They did not go back and add achievements--but on the bright side, this enabled them to keep the prices of each of these games under $10 (and if you bought them earlier on Xbox or Xbox 360, you get to play them for free).
Sound familiar? Yes, this is exactly the manner that so many PS4 fans here in this thread (including myself) had expressed that they wanted Sony to handle "PS2 games on PS4"!
With that in mind, we can now revisit previously "hypothetical" situations like the one t26 expressed below:
I suppose if Microsoft went back and required achievements to be added, then they might run into the same problem as Sony. However, they didn't do that, and thus easily avoided the problem.
Why can't Sony do the same here? Are PS4 owners not good enough to deserve such treatment?
Sony might have previously screwed up their strategy for bringing PS2 games to PS4, but that doesn't mean the situation cannot be salvaged. They just need to take a page from Microsoft's playbook, and ensure that any and all future "PS2 games on PS4" get the same treatment. It can and should be done.
At E3 in June, Microsoft announced their intent to bring games from the original Xbox to Xbox One. Yesterday, they finally made that a reality.
Microsoft's feature list for "Xbox games on Xbox One" is almost identical to that of "Xbox 360 games on Xbox One". You get improved performance (graphical enhancements, screenshot/video capture), cross-buy carryovers with the digital releases sold on Xbox 360, and the ability to use the original disc without having to repurchase the game. They did not go back and add achievements--but on the bright side, this enabled them to keep the prices of each of these games under $10 (and if you bought them earlier on Xbox or Xbox 360, you get to play them for free).
Sound familiar? Yes, this is exactly the manner that so many PS4 fans here in this thread (including myself) had expressed that they wanted Sony to handle "PS2 games on PS4"!
With that in mind, we can now revisit previously "hypothetical" situations like the one t26 expressed below:
I suppose if Microsoft went back and required achievements to be added, then they might run into the same problem as Sony. However, they didn't do that, and thus easily avoided the problem.
Why can't Sony do the same here? Are PS4 owners not good enough to deserve such treatment?
Sony might have previously screwed up their strategy for bringing PS2 games to PS4, but that doesn't mean the situation cannot be salvaged. They just need to take a page from Microsoft's playbook, and ensure that any and all future "PS2 games on PS4" get the same treatment. It can and should be done.