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PS3 Firmware Update 3.21 of preventing piracy by removing Linux.

squatingyeti

non-sanctioned troll
Dr Bad Dude PHD said:
Sony should keep Linux support, then every year they should brick every console that has been playing pirated games.

Good luck proving a game is pirated vs. a legit copy onto the HDD. Also, they risk false positives like when MS banned a bunch of consoles from Live, only to find out a failing laser could report what MS was looking for.
 
squatingyeti said:
Good luck proving a game is pirated vs. a legit copy onto the HDD. Also, they risk false positives like when MS banned a bunch of consoles from Live, only to find out a failing laser could report what MS was looking for.
You see the joke was that it is actually a terrible idea.
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
lupinko said:
0341 JST, 2PACALYPS3 IS COMING, so don't forget to grab your glocks and call the cops when you see 32pac fw.

Sony shut us down,
but Geohot is not finished
so they 'bout to feel the wrath of a menace
Geo, we hit 'em up!
 

missile

Member
UntoldDreams said:
A lot of this comes down to Kuturagi's original vision.
(It was in a Japanese article I don't have the link anymore but this is true stuff)

His "Dream" (oh krazy ken you wabbit) was for Japan/Sony to create a new computer architecture.

He dreamed that the Cell Processor would be the first step towards seeding Earth with a new architecture which could rival Apple computer and the like.

These Cell computers would be capable of joining in a GRID and having ridiculous computational power much like Folding@Home does but more organized and controlled.

Imagine a company of 200 people where they all had these "Kuturagi computers" which if you wanted you could join them together. It would mean every small company out there would have some form of Super computing power readily available.

That, was his dream and it was not inherently wrong it actually could have worked except for the simple fact that Sony ran out of money and the economy took a nosedive.

*** It just wasn't the right timing for him and maybe Sony wasn't the right company

Too bad I think if the timing had been different Google would have jumped on the chance to seed Earth with their Linux based Google OS.

Ken was a visionary despite his crazy moments.

I also followed every piece he said back in the days. Sony had an idea (has?) of
a new computer based on a new architecture that should overcome the burden of
the von Neumann architecture to open up the door for massive multimedia
applications on your desktop. Ken Kutaragi nicknamed this computer Creative
Workstation. The Graphics Synthesizer Cube, the GSCube, was part of his vision
towards this goal;

"As Sony Computer Entertainment fused the technology of computers and world of
entertainment and evolve a new market called Computer Entertainment, we are now
pioneering the creation of realtime digital entertainment through an extension
of the technology of PlayStation2."
- Ken Kutaragi, CEO of Sony Computer
Entertainment America

GSCube
dsc_0046.jpg


gamasutra.com said:
... The GScube is a rendering device targeted at the content creation/broadband delivery markets. It consists of 16 cascaded processing units, each of them based upon an enhanced version of a Sony Playstation 2. Every processing unit has an Emotion Engine CPU (which was jointly developed by Sony and Toshiba), and an improved Graphics Synthesizer equipped with a 32MB frame buffer (eight times the memory of a regular PS2). This yields a total 512MB of VRAM, and it can theoretically reach a peak performance of 1.2 billion triangles per second -- a number that sounds like it comes from science fiction books. The device must be controlled by an external broadband server which feeds data to the GScube, and at Siggraph that device was the brand-new SGI Origin 3400. At the Sony booth, we enjoyed a real-time battle between characters from the movie Antz rendered in real time, as well as interactive sequences from the upcoming Final Fantasy movie shown at 1920x1080 pixels and a sustained rate of 60FPS.

In the Antz demo, I counted 140 ants, each comprising about 7,000 polygons, which were rendered using a ported version of Criterion's Renderware 3. All ants were texture mapped, and the results looked surprisingly close to the quality of the original movie. The Final Fantasy demo was just data from the now-in-development full-length CG movie based upon the game series, rendered in real time by the GScube. It showed a girl (with animated hair threads) in a zero-gravity spaceship, with a user-controllable camera viewpoint. The demo rendered about 314,000 polygons per frame, and included an impressive character with 161 joints, motion-blurring effects, and many other cinematic feats. According to Kazuyuki Hashimoto, senior vice president and CTO of Square USA, the GScube allowed them to show real-time quality, in "close to what is traditionally software rendered in about five hours." Sony believes that the GScube will deliver a tenfold improvement over a regular PS2, and future iterations of the architecture expect to reach a 100-fold improvement. ...

GSCube 16x specification:

- CPU 128Bit Emotion Engine x 16
- System Clock Frequency 294.912MHz
- Main Memory Direct RDRAM
- Memory Size 2GB (128MB x 16)
- Memory Bus Bandwidth 50.3GB/s (3.1GB/s x 16)
- Floating Point Performance 97.5GFLOPS (6.1GFLOPS x 16)
- 3D CG Geometric Transformation 1.04Gpolygons/s (65Mpolygons/s x 16)
- Graphics Graphics Synthesizer I-32 x 16
- Clock Frequency 147.456MHz
- VRAM Size 512MB (embedded 32MB x 16)
- VRAM Bandwidth 755GB/s (47.2GB/s x 16)
- Pixel Fill Rate 37.7GB/s (2.36GB/s x 16)
- Maximum Polygon Drawing Rate 1.2 Gpolygons/s (73.7Mpolygons/s x 16)
- Display Color Depth 32bit (RGBA: 8 bits each)
- Z depth 32bit
- Maximum Resolutions 1080/60p (1920x1080, 60fps, Progressive)

Sony was even eager to deliver a 64x version of the GSCube;

eetimes.com said:
Sony steps up Playstation-based graphics system plans

Yoshiko Hara Yoshiko Hara
EE Times
(09/13/2000 2:55 PM EDT)

TOKYO — Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. has accelerated its plans to roll out a high-end graphics computer based on its Playstation game console technology. The company announced plans this week to introduce a system called GScube next year that will use 64 processor boards with Playstation 2 technology.

The resulting parallel-processing computer will act as a graphics visualization machine with a 3-D processing capability of 4.16 gigapolygons per second and a resolution of 60 frames/second (progressive scan) at 1,080 x 1,980 pixels, the company said.

The 64-board GScube will put Sony ahead of the graphics system road map it announced a year ago, when it promised to develop a system with 10 times the processing clout of Playstation 2 in 2000, followed by a 100-times version in 2002 and a 1,000x version before the end of the decade. ...

But the 64x version never saw the light of the day.

If one looks closely at the Cell architecture, then one can see that the Cell
processor is a very flexible extension of the PS2's Emotion Engine (EE), i.e.
each vector unit (PS2:VU, PS3:SPE) now got his own DMA engine and a lot more
memory and other stuff. The busses were also improved a lot, leading to the
Elementary Interconnect Bus (EIB). One can say that the Cell processor houses
4 Emotion Engines just going by the vector units.

Whereas the Emotion Engine architecture was fixed by design, the Cell
architecture (the CBEA) is quite flexible and extendable -- ready to make Ken's
vision come true. But the situation turned out differently, unfortunately. The
CBEA is great by design, but building a great design is only one side of the
coin, having the right development tools (compiler, profiler, ...) in place
makes up for the other side. And as such the Cell processor never really took
off until recently. Only those who knew how to program such a processor without
the need of high-level tools could take advantage of it right from the start
(read; scientific computing).

Due to the lack of developer support and other issues, Ken's vision lost
momentum. In his vision the PS3 was just the beginning of a new computer. If
the PS3 would had been successful right from the start, I reckon Sony would had
offered a (kind-of) PC based on the PS3 utilizing a lot more RAM and other
things. And I do believe that Sony's ZEGO BCU-100 board is what would have
become the motherboard of said Creative Workstation. By IBMs roadmap we should
had an PowerXCell 32iv processor by now, envisoned as follows;

- 4 PPEs + 32 eSPEs,
- higher frequency (~3.8GHz),
- 100% backward compatible,
- Performance on PPE significantly better,
- Performance per SPE equal or better,
- Better inter-SPE latency,
- More on-chip memory,
- Better main memory latency and bandwidth,
- ~ 1 Tflops,

But unfortunately, this vision was abandoned about a year ago. Imagine a ZEGO
BCU-200 board with a PowerXCell 32iv processor + 16GB RAM and stuff. That's the
computer I wanna have!

Anyway. The Cell architecture is quite beyond and it's pretty cool to be able
to access the Cell processor via OtherOS to tinker round with it. 3.21 D'oh!

Well, I hope Sony sticks with Cell for the PS4 such that they don't have to
build a new toolchain, dev-tools, etc., again. A slightly enhanced Cell is all
what is needed. Two of them, a little more RAM, and throwing out the weak RSX
for something better ... and there we go again! :D
 

patsu

Member
I think the problem is:

When Cell was freely available on PS3 Linux, no one other than the professionals tried to do something useful with it. They shunt it for 2 years. Progress in OpenSource Cell effort was s-l-o-w. The most interesting to me was probably OpenCV for Cell.

Now that people don't have access anymore, they want to leave the option open in case someone (anyone !) is still working on it.

I was surprised to find someone outside a professional organization (e.g., Air Force, banks, oil companies, IT security organizations, ...) working on it -- GeoHot. It seems that the hacker community is still trying to break PS3. ^_^

Other than PS3 developers who want to prototype stuff, who here uses PS3 Linux ?
 

Speevy

Banned
Just so this gets posted in every topic concerning Geohot, what he said

I'm less opposed to piracy on the PS3 as I am on the iPhone. Obviously, it must not hurt the game manufacturers that bad, or they wouldn't continue to release PC versions of games. And if a modchip is required, that will eliminate a huge chunk of would be pirates. If you are willing to open up your system, learn some electronics, and solder, perhaps you deserve free games. I hate the tools who download blackra1n then ask me where their free apps are, and wish Apple had better DRM, which none of the top guys in the iPhone scene would touch.
 

Ashes

Banned
well, you'll find out in a few hours... when the firmware releases and people specifically mention that they haven't updated etc...
 

lupinko

Member
Ashes1396 said:
well, you'll find out in a few hours... when the firmware releases and people specifically mention that they haven't updated etc...

0739 JST, so when do FW updates usually arrive in Japan again? 2pacalyps3 is nearing soon.
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
So the PS.Blog guys usually put some videos with the firmware update before its online.
Im guessing that the only feature is the OtherOS removal. =/
Sony has all kind of awesome studios all over the world... but the OS team is not one of them. * Remembers In Game XMB petitions *
 

Ashes

Banned
I don't know about japan, but it's typically around early morning gmt time... It's been any between 1am gmt to 8am gmt...
 

missile

Member
patsu said:
I think the problem is:

When Cell was freely available on PS3 Linux, no one other than the professionals tried to do something useful with it. They shunt it for 2 years. Progress in OpenSource Cell effort was s-l-o-w. The most interesting to me was probably OpenCV for Cell. ...
Wait! Entire professional dev studios took about two to three years to unleash
Cell and you are expecting that some homebrew geeks build something cool in even
less time? Did you know how long it took until something was coming out of the
PS2 dev com? Man, it's not like that we are on PC that exists for ages. Cell is
an entirely new architecture, as you know. It takes time. You can't expect that
a non-professional will build / port a open-source library in record time. And
up to my point of view there is a lot of things one can do already. Have you
ever played around with IBM's Cell SDK 3.1? There is plenty of stuff in it to
go for youself.

patsu said:
Other than PS3 developers who want to prototype stuff, who here uses PS3 Linux?
If you would read a lot more comments here and elsewhere, i.e. ydl forum, ps2 dev
forum, etc., then you would find quite A LOT of people using PS3Linux.
 

lupinko

Member
Fersis said:
So the PS.Blog guys usually put some videos with the firmware update before its online.
Im guessing that the only feature is the OtherOS removal. =/
Sony has all kind of awesome studios all over the world... but the OS team is not one of them. * Remembers In Game XMB petitions *

Well usually the blog posts are done by Eric Lempel (who also does the videos), but this one was posted by Patrick Seybold. So yeah, exactly.
 
Fersis said:
So the PS.Blog guys usually put some videos with the firmware update before its online.
Im guessing that the only feature is the OtherOS removal. =/
Sony has all kind of awesome studios all over the world... but the OS team is not one of them. * Remembers In Game XMB petitions *

Huh? But it sparkles, doesn't it? What more can you ask for?
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
brotkasten said:
Huh? But it sparkles, doesn't it? What more can you ask for?
Moar sparkles plz! MOAR!
(Q Games is the studio in charge of the XMB UI)

My 'complain' is about funcionality. I like the UI.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
lupinko said:
0739 JST, so when do FW updates usually arrive in Japan again? 2pacalyps3 is nearing soon.


OtherOS isn't really dead? *eyebrow raise*

thatsthejoke.jpg
 
Fersis said:
So the PS.Blog guys usually put some videos with the firmware update before its online.
Im guessing that the only feature is the OtherOS removal. =/
Sony has all kind of awesome studios all over the world... but the OS team is not one of them. * Remembers In Game XMB petitions *


They really should have come up with something to add. I've got to imagine that the backlash regarding this wouldn't have been so big if they hadn't made it so obvious that removing Other OS was the only reason for the update.
 
Fersis said:
Moar sparkles plz! MOAR!
(Q Games is the studio in charge of the XMB UI)

My 'complain' is about funcionality. I like the UI.


But that's what I'm talking about. D:

You don't need more 'functionality' if your Game OS sparkles. Your complain is invalid.

tass0 said:
<geohot> but hopefully i'll have the "cfw" done tomorrow

hmm!

Yeah, no.
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
rainking187 said:
They really should have come up with something to add. I've got to imagine that the backlash regarding this wouldn't have been so big if they hadn't made it so obvious that removing Other OS was the only reason for the update.
The OS Team resources are these:
- 2 programmers working 24/7.
- 1 State of the art 386 with 4 MB RAM (With turbo button)
- The source versioning and backup system are based on 3.5 diskettes,labels and pens.
- Sparkles.

So i think we are asking too much.

brotkasten said:
But that's what I'm talking about. D:

You don't need more 'functionality' if you Game OS sparkles. Your complain is invalid
.
Yeah, no.
So this thread is pretty much a Sparkle request thread?
And of course Dragona's polemic request of green sparkles.
Gray sparkles FTMW!
 
Fersis said:
So this thread is pretty much a Sparkle request thread?
And of course Dragona's polemic request of green sparkles.
Gray sparkles FTMW!

Sure, who doesn't like sparkles? And while they're at it, they should replace the PS3 logo at the boot up with an image of a sparkling Robert Pattinson.

tass0 said:
No, yeah.

See wut I did there?

Sorry dude, but I'd give geohot more credit than you.

That's okay.
 

patsu

Member
missile said:
Wait! Entire professional dev studios took about two to three years to unleash
Cell and you are expecting that some homebrew geeks build something cool in even
less time? Did you know how long it took until something was coming out of the
PS2 dev com? Man, it's not like that we are on PC that exists for ages. Cell is
an entirely new architecture, as you know. It takes time. You can't expect that
a non-professional will build / port a open-source library in record time. And
up to my point of view there is a lot of things one can do already. Have you
ever played around with IBM's Cell SDK 3.1? There is plenty of stuff in it to
go for youself.

Cell SDK 3.1 sample codes ? Not very useful for daily use though. I was expecting ffmpeg, OpenCV (which is good), statistical packages, etc.

Cell SDK 3.1 and Eclipse are already pretty usable as a programming environment. Otherwise, how do the air force, supercomputing labs and universities do their work ? I believe the Insomniac folks use PS3 Linux to prototype stuff too.

If you would read a lot more comments here and elsewhere, i.e. ydl forum, ps2 dev
forum, etc., then you would find quite A LOT of people using PS3Linux.

http://www.yellowdog-board.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7266&sid=bc2037da3c4a65af78fe3b22a6067e95
has 75 posts.

http://forums.ps2dev.org/viewtopic.php?t=12948 has 25 or so posts.

Most of the people who post in this thread don't use PS3 Linux.

Which threads are you tracking ?
 

TTP

Have a fun! Enjoy!
Fersis said:
So the PS.Blog guys usually put some videos with the firmware update before its online.
Im guessing that the only feature is the OtherOS removal. =/
Sony has all kind of awesome studios all over the world... but the OS team is not one of them. * Remembers In Game XMB petitions *

Yeah. Looks like we ain't getting anything added with 3.21.

There is still hope for some stealthy stuff.
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
TTP said:
Yeah. Looks like we ain't getting anything added with 3.21.

There is still hope for some stealthy stuff.
Dont hold your breath dood.
 

androvsky

Member
Dragona Akehi said:
Wouldn't GeoHot have to actually have the update before being able to code "cfw"?

Tt'll be his April Fool's joke. There's pretty solid rumors he's cobbled together a tool to use the isolated SPU to decrypt stuff, but without being able to sign any binaries, retail consoles can't do squat with anything he does.
 

patsu

Member
Ashes1396 said:
Why would he need to buy ps3? the firmware will be released on the web by sony. :lol

edit: @lupinko. :D

Oh, in case he bricks it, or 3.21 installs accidentally while he observes the behaviour. :)
 

Ashes

Banned
didn't someone give him the ps3 he has now... ?

ps. So I looked on the blog and they had a support number and everything... So I'm not entirely sure this is a prank... but to be on the safe side... I going to say it is....
 

patsu

Member
Ashes1396 said:
didn't someone give him the ps3 he has now... ?

Yes, someone from Brazil I think.

But he's personally vested now. I don't think he'll post, "Guys, I bricked my PS3. It's over". He sounds like a persistent guy.
 

missile

Member
patsu said:
Cell SDK 3.1 sample codes ? Not very useful for daily use though. ...
Sample code? No, the libaries. Ok, let me ask you a question; what are you
wanna do on Cell to begin with?

patsu said:
lol

Count the all different users posting in

// ydl: Board index &#8249; Architecture &#8249; Playstation 3
http://www.yellowdog-board.com/viewforum.php?f=19&sid=4d2bcabfc7862ad18b73db97603438d3

and

//ps2 dev: PS3 Linux Development
http://forums.ps2dev.org/viewforum.php?f=27&sid=756be7c32a89b41630afe312d187b9b4

and then you will see that there are many users using PS3Linux. Btw; your
question was; "... who here uses PS3 Linux?". And I pointed you at those places
just to show you that there are many user using PS3Linux.
 

jonabbey

Member
Ashes1396 said:
if this is true... and it is a big if.... sony>>>gaf>>>internet>>>sony.

I meant that the joke is that we're getting an update after four months that does nothing but take away a feature we early owners paid for.

April Fool's!
 
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