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[twobear]

The PS3's saving grace? It's the consoles weak link.

Not at all. When you massively over engineer the CPU and include a nearly-pointless BR drive that jacks the BOM close to $300 more than you're selling it for, getting an off-the-shelf GPU part that's almost as powerful (more powerful, in fact, in raw terms) as the competition for a fraction of the price is a steal.

For the cost, Sony could not have included anything more powerful than RSX, and without it they would have been very much up the proverbial creek. So yes, saving grace.

 

[anexanhume]

The BR drive drove console adoption for it being a cheap BR drive for a while. It also helped Sony win the format war (licensing) and avoids multi-disc retail games. It wasn't a decision without benefit.

 

[Elios83]

The PS3's saving grace? It's the consoles weak link.

The RSX turned out less powerful than intented (lower clock frequency than expected, low number of ROPs and old architecture with non unified shaderd) but that doesn't mean it wasn't a key component and indeed it saved the PS3 because it was really easy to use, it was a standard PC GPU well known to all the developers, also nvidia provided good tools and drivers.
Developers struggled a lot with Cell....go figure if they had to struggle with both the CPU and the GPU. It would have been a non recoverable situation, like Saturn.

 

[Razgreez]

I remember following the tech rumours as closely as i have followed the xbo and ps4 rumours.

If i recall correctly the PS3 was originally designed around the cell as the only processor (graphics and general computation). It was decided that this would not be sufficient so they began experimenting with 2 cells however, the TtT of this solution was ridiculously long so they re-approached the vendors they had contacted during the initial stages of design and basically only nvidia was willing to play ball (and very hard ball at that) within the, at the time, extended time-frame.

Late finalization of design, late manufacturing and a heavily staggered launch. It's purely due to the strength of their developers and their relatively loyal fanbase that sony managed to survive the PS3 "fiasco". They did not come away unscathed though, no they actually made it out by their tooth hairs but appear to have learnt a number of important lessons in the process

 

[Eusis]

Yeah, it's more that blu-ray was premature rather than unnecessary, and who knows if even that would've been true had Microsoft decided to go a year later but with HD-DVD or whatever? It seemed like they generally held back because of the 360's DVD drive that was further compromised with that ridiculous space eating encryption, and as the generation got further in they cared less and less about letting that hold them up (see how a game like GTAV REQUIRES one disc just for installation.)

 

[Midas]

I remember when Sony announced they were partnering with Nvidia. That was quite a funny thread and all the rumors on how it was a last resort for Sony which it basically was. Can't seem to find the thread though, maybe it was before NeoGAF went live.

Edit: No, announcement seems to have been made December 7th 2004. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26568 - Wow, only 5 pages. It was different GAF back then.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Not at all. When you massively over engineer the CPU and include a nearly-pointless BR drive that jacks the BOM close to $300 more than you're selling it for, getting an off-the-shelf GPU part that's almost as powerful (more powerful, in fact, in raw terms) as the competition for a fraction of the price is a steal.

For the cost, Sony could not have included anything more powerful than RSX, and without it they would have been very much up the proverbial creek. So yes, saving grace.

I'm not saying that a GPU wasn't needed, my point was that the one inside the PS3 is rather disappointing. That's why you often hear about developers offloading stuff to the CELL. It's why the PS3 is incapable of certain things that even the PS2 was capable of (Kaz has talked about this in recent interviews about GT6)..

 

[Palette Swap]

Yeah, it's more that blu-ray was premature rather than unnecessary, and who knows if even that would've been true had Microsoft decided to go a year later but with HD-DVD or whatever? It seemed like they generally held back because of the 360's DVD drive that was further compromised with that ridiculous space eating encryption, and as the generation got further in they cared less and less about letting that hold them up (see how a game like GTAV REQUIRES one disc just for installation.)

To be fair, neither solution was perfect, considering the less than adequate bandwidth of the PS3 BR drive. In that regard, it might have been a bit premature.

 

[jcm]

People always talk about how Sony fucked up PS3 launch. while it's true to some extent, nobody talks about how Sony actually managed to reverse this tragic situation and ended up with a great console in PS3. achievements such as:

• Selling better than main competitor despite higher price and 18 months delay.
• Solidifying BD as media format.
• Creating the best exclusives lineup of 7th generation consoles.
• Building PSN from scratch and making it one of the main online-play services.

Sony did one hell of a job to keep Playstation relevant and they succeeded going by PS4 pre-orders and hype.

It's a shame they burned through billions of dollars doing it. I suppose they did a decent job recovering somewhat, but to me it's kind of like complimenting someone who just shit his pants. Hey, at least you avoided setting yourself on fire after!

To be fair, they have done a really nice job so far with the PS4.

 

[IN&OUT]

And all it took was every cent they made in the PS2 era, and then a little more! I'm sure when Sony's leadership looks at those Blu Ray sales numbers they think, "it was all worth it."

It could've been even worse but Sony was able to reverse the situation, that's why we have PS4 now.

For your info Xbox division didn't make a penny for MS since creation in 2001. first Xbox was failure, 360 was doing good until RROD cost MS almost $3B.

 

[manesan]

"Guys, there is no GPU in this thing."

"We have the power of the cell."

"..."

"Put the damn GPU in."

"Okay."

What Naughty Dog says, goes. Confirmed.

This gen we've got the power of the cloud.

 

[Lesiroth]

I wonder why Sony didn't try to partner with AMD (ATI at the time) for the GPU. Maybe they wouldn't have been as screwed?

 

[Canis lupus]

Bluray was essential but Sony would've been better off without the Cell. It cost tons of money and was hard to develop for.

PS3 with a
-tri-core cpu
-slightly better gpu than 360
-ram: 512MB GDDDR3+128/256MB XDR
-bluray

Would've been a better and cheaper solution.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

People always talk about how Sony fucked up PS3 launch. while it's true to some extent, nobody talks about how Sony actually managed to reverse this tragic situation and ended up with a great console in PS3. achievements such as:

• Selling better than main competitor despite higher price and 18 months delay.
• Solidifying BD as media format.
• Creating the best exclusives lineup of 7th generation consoles.
• Building PSN from scratch and making it one of the main online-play services.

Sony did one hell of a job to keep Playstation relevant and they succeeded going by PS4 pre-orders and hype.

You need to add:

• Lost $5-7bn

To you list.

The PS3 was a disaster for Sony and Kutaragi fucked up the design by overcomplicating things. Thankfully Mark Cerny has rectified the internal problems at PlayStation and the PS4 looks like a beast.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

I remember quite a few people bristling at the suggestion a GPU was crammed into the PS3 architecture at the figurative last minute.

Shit, I would have gawked too. "PS3 with last minute GPU? Quit fucking with me, only an idiot would throw it in last minute!"

I can't believe it's real.

Cue Angry Nintendo Nerd
"WHAT....WERE THEY THINKING?"

 

[Nikodemos]

I wonder why Sony didn't try to partner with AMD (ATI at the time) for the GPU. Maybe they wouldn't have been as screwed?

Maybe ATI had some sort of exclusive deal with Microsoft?

 

[AuthenticM]

Yeah, this has been known since the launch of the console. I have no idea if it would have been a disaster or not though. The 2005 launch would have been better though.

 

[Sub_Level]

Man that launch was a disaster. Insomniac single handedly carried the PS3 for its first 2 years.

Naw, Ratchet and Clank was meh. Resistance multiplayer was pretty fun though.

 

[twobear]

I'm not saying that a GPU wasn't needed, my point was that the one inside the PS3 is rather disappointing. That's why you often hear about developers offloading stuff to the CELL. It's why the PS3 is incapable of certain things that even the PS2 was capable of (Kaz has talked about this in recent interviews about GT6)..

Right, but that's because of very poor choices with the rest of the architecture. If Sony had gone with a more straightforward CPU (or dropped the BR) they could have gone for a much more powerful GPU; then they wouldn't have needed to offload things to the Cell.

As it is, they got what they could pay for, and it saved the generation for them.

 

[GameAddict411]

PS3's cell combined with an amazing GPU would have been an incredible combo for those developers willing to delve into the complexity of the cell such as Sony's first party studios.

just imagine if the PS3 had something similar to 8800GTX with a total memory pool of 1GB of ram(512MB for the CPU and the other 512MB for the GPU). OT: the CELL being the only processor on the PS3(two of them to be exact) is really been known for a long time.

 

[DragonSworne]

Ken Kutaragi was Sony's Iwata.

Lucky for Sony that he wasn't the CEO and they dropped him after one console.

 

[EventHorizon]

2005

A fourth source noted, “I think that the hardware guys focused too much on getting the [Sony’s proprietary processor] CELL working that the GPU project [for PlayStation 3] ultimately fell behind.”

2013

A fourth source noted, “I think that the hardware guys focused too much on getting [Microsoft’s proprietary controller & OS] KINECT & Win 8 working that the GPU project [for Xbox One] ultimately fell behind.”

 

[jaypah]

It could've been even worse but Sony was able to reverse the situation, that's why we have PS4 now.

For your info Xbox division didn't make a penny for MS since creation in 2001. first Xbox was failure, 360 was doing good until RROD cost MS almost $3B.

Yes, MS also fucked up. Not sure what that has to do with the PS3, other than "oh yeah? Well the other team sucks too!".

Anyway, yes KK was batshit insane. Cerney and his crew knocked it out of the park though so all is well. Roll on November!

2005



2013

This post is so balanced.

 

[cafemomo]

Shine on Crazy Diamond.

A part of me misses arrogant Sony.

it felt awesome owning a PS3 and PSP during when they though they where on the top of the world.

felt fuggin exclusive

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Ken Kutaragi was Sony's Iwata.

Lucky for Sony that he wasn't the CEO and they dropped him after one console.

Analogies, how do they work?

 

[gofreak]

Going by this info it was probably late 2003/early 2004 when that decision was made.

For reference it was July 2004 when Sony announced the nVidia partnership.

Console plans do change...but I guess this shows the importance of getting component choice roughly in order early on. 18 months isn't enough for such a change. It turned out to need closer to 30 months.

These rumours were scoffed at in the past because third party devs reported never hearing of such a plan. But the inclusion of a GPU would have already been part of the plan by the time third parties were involved, so I guess they wouldn't necessarily have known about what PS3 looked like pre-2004.

 

[Eusis]

Ken Kutaragi was Sony's Iwata.

Lucky for Sony that he wasn't the CEO and they dropped him after one console.

I think Iwata's too humble for that or at least acts that way. Ken Kuturagi was probably closer to Hiroshi Yamauchi in how he acted, funnily enough.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Haha. I remember this. I couldn't ever quote it because my google-fu failed. Was a stupid idea.

 

[Iacobellis]

I remember the rumor that the system would be launching on the same day as Halo 3 in Spring 2006.

Looking back, the PS3 was a massive fuck-up in hardware.

 

[kartu]

So that CELL hype was that strong, that even in Sony's headquarters were affected... I'm shocked...

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Crazy Ken is the Al Davis of gaming.

 

[Durante]

Article isn't old but the info is well known.

Yeah, the 2x Cell proto-PS3 rumor has been around forever (since at least 2005). Would have been interesting, fun, and a clusterfuck.

 

[Bluekaveli]

Ken fucked up and ran with his tail between his legs lmfao. This thread is too funny; every response is golden.

 

[morpix]

Well, the Cell did come around and save the PS3 from total mediocrity (offloading post-processing, AA, etc.). Without a GPU tho, we'd all be Xbox-only. It wouldh've been a disaster.

 

[dark_prinny]

A part of me misses arrogant Sony.

it felt awesome owning a PS3 and PSP during when they though they where on the top of the world.

felt fuggin exclusive

 

[omonimo]

So that CELL hype was that strong, that even in Sony's headquarters were affected... I'm shocked...

Although the weird idea of a console without a gpu (I don't know what the fuck had smoke kutaragi at the time, sweet Jeez if true) Cell cpu was really good. I think it's quite a pity that sony was unable to invest on it after the terrible losses.

 

[KingSunIsFree]

Crazy Ken is the Al Davis of gaming.

 

[silver.tongue]

"Guys, there is no GPU in this thing."

"We have the power of the cell."

"..."

"Put the damn GPU in."

"Okay."

What Naughty Dog says, goes. Confirmed.

Omg I'm laughing so hard right now.

A part of me misses arrogant Sony.

it felt awesome owning a PS3 and PSP during when they though they where on the top of the world.

felt fuggin exclusive

God, no.

I bought my PS1 because it was cheaper.
I bought my PS2 because it was cheaper.

Even though I wanted a PS3, I started this gen with a 360 because it was cheaper.

We don't need to elitists here...

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

What games would they ever have had for it in 2005?

The system had too few games in 2006 when it launched!

 

[SneakyStephan]

This gen we've got the power of the cloud.

Ice cold

 

[flipswitch]

Here's a leaked screen of Naughty Dog's work in progress title Uncharted running just on CELL.

 

[shark sandwich]

ALL the early hype/press releases regarding Cell focused on how multiple Cells work together (like cells in a body). Only later did they retroactively change it to mean "software cells" whatever the hell that means.

The Nvidia announcement took everybody by surprise. I distinctly remember one of the Sony higher-ups (not KK) scoffing at the notion that PS3 would be using an Nvidia GPU, when asked about the news that Sony had licensed something from Nvidia. In fact, early speculation about the Nvidia tech was that Sony would be incorporating some kind of rasterization hardware into Cell. The RSX w/its own pool of memory was a complete surprise to just about everybody.

So yeah it seems pretty obvious that Sony intended to use multiple Cells and no real GPU. The PS3 we got is their "plan B".

 

[walltowall]

I think anyone interested should give a The race for a new game machine by David Shippy and Mickie Phipps a read. These were a couple of IBM folks working on both systems simultaneously. IBM was in the same position that AMD is in now and it's fascinating to read about how secretive MS and Sony wanted to be but many of the same folks were working on both chips.

 

[EdReedFan20]

"Guys, there is no GPU in this thing."

"We have the power of the cell."

"..."

"Put the damn GPU in."

"Okay."

What Naughty Dog says, goes. Confirmed.

As the article states, ICE Team was very influential in convincing Sony to put in a GPU. Q: Who was/is one of the ICE Team leaders? A: Mark Cerny. And it was shortly after the launch of the PS3 that he asked to take the reigns of development of PS4.

 

[Brera]

People always talk about how Sony fucked up PS3 launch. while it's true to some extent, nobody talks about how Sony actually managed to reverse this tragic situation and ended up with a great console in PS3. achievements such as:

• Selling better than main competitor despite higher price and 18 months delay.
• Solidifying BD as media format.
• Creating the best exclusives lineup of 7th generation consoles.
• Building PSN from scratch and making it one of the main online-play services.

Sony did one hell of a job to keep Playstation relevant and they succeeded going by PS4 pre-orders and hype.

Stop it with the bull.

We all know MS won this generation and were in 1st place over Sony and Nintendo!

 

[Eusis]

As the article states, ICE Team was very influential in convincing Sony to put in a GPU. Q: Who was/is one of the ICE Team leaders? A: Mark Cerny. And it was shortly after the launch of the PS3 that he asked to take the reigns of development of PS4.

He sounded ambitious, but considering that situation I almost wonder if it's more like he was THAT frustrated they seriously wanted to do something like that that he felt he had to take control for there to be some actual damn sense.

 

[Ty4on]

Maybe ATI had some sort of exclusive deal with Microsoft?

Nah, Nintendo used them for the GameCube, Wii and now WiiU. I think Sony were just trying to be as different as possible making PS3 to 360 porting as hard as possible. The irony

MS also experimented with Nvidia as a partner with the Xbox, but AFAIK they refused to lower the price over time.

 

[poodpick]

Only mistakes at every stage of planning could fuck up the playstation brand so badly

 

[Brera]

Nvidia didn't understand the console way of doing business. Sell low and make money on volume.

Fucking over Sony and MS lost them a lot of business and leverage on their home turf.

Console gaming will have a bigger impact on PC this generation with PC games simply being full fat versions of console games.

That's why ATI will be raking it in!

 

[ZiggyRoXx]

Even the mighty Intel had call it quits with the Larrabee multiple CPU based graphics renderer as a competitor to ATI & Nvidia back in the day, which is basically the same approach Sony was trying with a large SPU core count.