phosphor112
Banned
Can you take screenshots and post the whole thing?
=S
I'd buy you a hooker.
=S
I'd buy you a hooker.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PS4 Rumors , APU code named 'Liverpool' Radeon HD 7970 GPU Steamroller CPU 16GB Flash
- Thread starter onQ123
- Start date
- Status
specialguy
Banned
those specs seem to be igp-size. like an apu gpu.. like a trinity or anything like that. 2 rop's for example.
not beefy enough to be the main gpu so you'd have to speculate a apu+discrete setup.
not beefy enough to be the main gpu so you'd have to speculate a apu+discrete setup.
Didn't Nintendo games often have a sharp/smooth setting?
amstradcpc
Member
Yes, that´s an APU. 5 SIMD units would mean 5 jaguar cores with 5 floating point units. Besides it would have 320 shader procesors. This plus a decent GPU: WIN. The APU alone would be similar to a Wii u...
jeff_rigby
Banned
Advanced Micro Devices Management Discusses Q3 2012 Results - Earnings Call Transcript
AMD says they will have their low power APUs in 125 platforms (Tablets, laptops, Embedded) with Windows 8 in 2013, I assume that's 121 plus Xbox 720 with several different SKUs. Low power APUs will eventually be 14nm transistors on a 20nm plane die by 2014 (maybe late 2013) with 20nm to start in 2013. 14nm to be reserved in the short term for handhelds where battery life is very critical.
Simi-custom APU = SoC = Game Console SoC built with "graphics IP and reusable design blocks" and in time for 2013 launch. Most likely 28nm could be 22nm or a combination of the two ("process optimized building blocks")
AMD says they will have their low power APUs in 125 platforms (Tablets, laptops, Embedded) with Windows 8 in 2013, I assume that's 121 plus Xbox 720 with several different SKUs. Low power APUs will eventually be 14nm transistors on a 20nm plane die by 2014 (maybe late 2013) with 20nm to start in 2013. 14nm to be reserved in the short term for handhelds where battery life is very critical.
Seems to be yeah. They could use the APU for the os apps and video sort of a lower power mode, then use a dedicated gpu for games... Hopefully
APU : ~1.5-2 Tflops
Depending on the GPU it could easily go up to 4-6 TFlops... correct me if I'm wrong.
In my fanboy wet dreams mang :-/.
The APU in the OP would be 1.8 Tflops, but the APU suggested by that special guy post would be much smaller.
If the APU is the former, there wouldn't be an additional discrete GPU.
If special guys info is from 2010 it would make a bit more sense...the info in the OP is from late 2011 iirc. That is, if we're believing it all
In all honesty, this console will probably be around 1.8 teraflops. I just don't see Sony springing for a discrete GPU alongside a 1.8 teraflop APU. It would be awesome-as-fuck, but I doubt it :-/.
Just have a look how many TFlops a GTX 690 has... They need something around this number to ensure another lifecycle of ~10 years.
It would be incredibly stupid and costly to do that. I think we will get ~2TB of processing power between CPU & GPU. My main concern is the amount of ram. There's no way Sony can do with only 2GB. That has be to brought to 4 minimum. What i would like to see is a fast pool of memory (128MB or even 256MB) additionally. Then for the main system you could put a slow ram and decent quantity.
No it wouldn't be stupid. You would see an incredible bump in performance. The problematic issue is with cost and heat. Beyond3D is suggesting there will be a discrete GPU as well. I find it hard to stomach, but it would mean huge things for graphics.
But what you're describing is absurd. You will never see an 1.8Tflops APU + another discrete GPU in a closed box. As for now, i would only take the vgleaks leak for credible.
lightchris
Member
FLOPS
It measures theoratical floating point performance. Not necessarily useful for real world performance in games, especially not for CPUs. It's okay for a rough estimation though.
McHuj
Member
An APU with 320 shaders @ 800 MHzm would only provide 512 giga flops of GPU power. With a new architecture, maybe it would be 4x in real world performance. Not good enough for a new gen, IMO.
However if the APU's primary use case is similar to that of the cell in that the shader processing power is used like the SPE's, the it could be considered a very powerful CPU and paired with a 1+ Tflop GPU would be really powerful system.
However if the APU's primary use case is similar to that of the cell in that the shader processing power is used like the SPE's, the it could be considered a very powerful CPU and paired with a 1+ Tflop GPU would be really powerful system.
Yeah. I don't think people realise this, people are allowing their imagination to take over.
Some of you need to look into the R&D companies like Sony and Nintendo put into making cases designs.
Microsoft is also rumured to be pulling something like this. The APU would serve as a low powered mode to function during media activities. It make's a lot of sense, but I seriously hope the APU would have been closer to 1.0 TF than 500 GF.
320 non-GCN shaders at 800 Mhz is a far cry from 1.8Tflops.
It's weird that Sony is using one, older graphics architecture as an APU and will presumably use another, newer architecture as a GPU...
Maybe the APU is there for Cell emulation, for at least all the PSN games, and major disc releases.
Roughly how much power does the APU have?
They will take a moderate loss early on,buying in bulk would help and they are likely using 'off the shelf' parts which would mean the costs would come down very quickly as opposed to something like the ps3's components.They make most of their cash initially on the software anyway.
Like McHuj said, 0.5 TFlops for 320 VLIW5 at 800 Mhz.
are we really expecting an AMD APU to be nearly 2TF? I thought so far they've all been pretty lacklustre, with grand promises of things to come that never seem to happen.
this is what I hope. shaders used for GPGPU inside the APU, plus a discrete GPU that can get on with graphics.
this is what I hope. shaders used for GPGPU inside the APU, plus a discrete GPU that can get on with graphics.
McHuj
Member
I doubt AMD would know the price of the final product.
And nothing stated here sounds expensive for a product shipping at the end of next year.
A 28nm APU based on 4-8 Jaguar cores + 320 shaders, will be significantly smaller , more power efficient, more cost effective then even Trinity that's out on the market today for around $100 RETAIL.
Even the dedicated GPU's that are being speculated on won't be extremely expensive. At this point you can get, once again in retail, a 7850 card (PCB, 1GB GDDR5, GPU, Cooling) for around under $200.
My guess the actual cost of this APU+GPU (just the chips) would be around $100. At $299, they may lose some money on the whole console, I don't think they will at $399.
Actually, that $200 price resembles a quite high markup based on what Nvidia has out, since it went down to the $165 level overnight with the launch of the 650Ti.
gundamkyoukai
Member
There is no way i see Sony and MS next console being 299 even Nintendo has console at 350.
Why price at 299 and lose money if the market willing to pay at least 400 and they going to sell out for the first year anyway.
Gemüsepizza
Member
I'm confused. I don't think there are any APUs which can reach 2 TFLOPS right now and in the near future. But why would they use an APU and a discrete GPU? Because of power consumption? You can already have very low power consumption even with fast GPUs when system load is low, a 7950 consumes ~15 watt in idle and ~45 watt when watching a Blu-ray, that doesn't sound much. Is it really worth the added complexity?
gundamkyoukai
Member
Nah other factors also made the PS3 cost a fair amount for eg Cell was suppose to be at 65nm when the PS3 was release that did not happen .
Which why people should never trust fab timelines to tell the truth but yes that was one of the main reasons .
amstradcpc
Member
I would say that shaders in the APU are there mainly for physics when gaming and for allowing the discrete gpu to be disconnected and have a tdp of 0 watts when doing multimedia stuff.
Similar to the MS leaked document in which they included a multimedia chipset to allow the thing to be all the day in stand-by ready to stream, etc.
When used in the right context, comparing FLOPS has some merit. However people tend to forget that FLOPS isn't the final indicator towards overall system performance. One system can have a higher theoretical limit but be crippled by some bottleneck in the design. This was recently touched on over at B3D:
McHuj
Member
I didn't say they would price it at 299, I said that at 299 they would probably lose money, but not at 399. I don't think the rumored specs for either console are such that at 399, they'll still be losing $100.
The APU as outlined above certainly wouldn't be the main GPU (well, at least I'd hope so, otherwise Sony can just pack up and exit stage left). I'd like it as a general purpose processing augmentation to the CPU, particularly if it shares the CPU's cache.
I hope this confirms a dedicated CPU + GPU architecture, the preformance ceiling for integrated is still too low.
I hope this confirms a dedicated CPU + GPU architecture, the preformance ceiling for integrated is still too low.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Okay i mistake what you were saying but yeah i agree with you at 399 the won't be losing much .
lightchris
Member
Of course. But not for laymen; for them, it can even be misleading (as you rightly say). One would tend to think that a 200 GFLOPS CPU is about twice as fast as a 100 GFLOPS one, while it can totally be the other way round, depending on the application.
Best is not to rely on such numbers if you're not deep enough into the matter.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
It's worth it because APU + GPU results in more usable power than just that same GPU alone, and is cheaper and cooler than getting just a CPU + faster GPU.Gemüsepizza;43372541 said:
In a closed console system they can make those two GPUs work in parallel, something that's technically possible on a PC with that configuration as well, but is underused because game would have to target a very specific hardware scenario. In a console they can also probably integrate the two with a faster connection than they would be on a PC (pure speculation, kind of like they did with CPU+GPU on PS3)
and of course even $165 is massively more expensive than the actual cost price to produce the GPU + whatever license fee is negotiated to use the tech.
So 3 Teraflops? Admittedly I'm not the most technical, but wouldn't that be hard to do practically in terms of cost/heat?
Agreed, there are so many factors outside of vague FLOPS counts, and like you said, they can be quite misleading. Heck even sticking with FLOPS, as we saw with the PS3 and 360, companies can even use non-programmable FLOPS to inflate the FLOPS counts of their respective system.
H_Prestige
Banned
Sony and MS are not afraid to sell at a loss in order to obtain a price advantage. Nintendo is.
This is reminding me of the Vita situation before the price was revealed. Everyone saw the specs was like, "OMG $399 handheld confirmed!!". And then Sony announced $250, same as 3DS.
H_Prestige
Banned
That would be suicide. Consoles don't sell at those prices, they already tried that this gen.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Yeah i know the willing to take a lost i just saying it makes no sense to do so if they don't have to .
Nothing is suicide at 399 .
I agree .
How much was the PS2 when it launched? I think most people would be alright for $400. I'd be fine with $499 personally, but at the price it'd be hard to adopt for most
H_Prestige
Banned
It does make sense if not selling at loss means selling at some ridiculous price like $400-500.
$299, but I remember getting it for $199 so it must have dropped really fast.
gundamkyoukai
Member
PS2 did not drop really fast in Europe it cost as much as 400 at launch and they were shortages for months .
The first price drop for PS2 in NA was 18 months after release .
399 is not a ridiculous price point both Sony and MS sold over 10 million consoles at that .
In the first year when you know the hardcore going to by your consoles if you can sell it for 399 and break even or make profit it make sense to do so .
You also have to take in account how many units they can make for the first year , then you can drop 50 - 100 of in the second year .
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll