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[StevieP]

no you can't because the games being made for the PC right now are just PS3\Xbox 360 games with higher settings.

Yes, every game in the world is being built with PS360 in mind. Some of them aren't even made on/for PC and then downported. There are no games on PC, either (is this the modern day version of "PS3 haz no gamez"?). They're all console games.
C'mon man. That's a very macroscopic way of looking at the market. It is true that raising the console hardware baseline will raise many multiplatform games' baselines, but it's not a drastic shift from what we already have. Just more of it and better quality.

 

[Massa]

I won't say you are wrong persay, but... that is exactly what we will get with these next gen consoles. Higher settings, I am guessing you are talking about the extra lighting and tessellation we get from PCs as well, because that is the biggest difference from DX9 to DX11.

Lighting, animation and particles are going to look significantly better than what we see in current PC games.

 

[Boss Man]

I won't say you are wrong persay, but... that is exactly what we will get with these next gen consoles. Higher settings, I am guessing you are talking about the extra lighting and tessellation we get from PCs as well, because that is the biggest difference from DX9 to DX11.

Yes, every game in the world is being built with PS360 in mind. Some of them aren't even made on/for PC and then downported. There are no games on PC, either. They're all console games.
C'mon man. That's a very macroscopic way of looking at the market. It is true that raising the console hardware baseline will raise many multiplatform games' baselines, but it's not a drastic shift from what we already have. Just more of it and better quality.

The black magic always happens on consoles though. PC games don't move to the next-generation before consoles usher it in. Then they tag along and run it on higher settings. Whether it's a port or not, almost all of the software advancement comes from consoles. It's not to say that 'PC has no gamez' or something, it's just acknowledging that console developers are going to squeeze something out of current mid-range PC tech that looks completely impossible even by tomorrow's high-end standards.

 

[z0m3le]

Lighting, animation and particles are going to look significantly better than what we see in current PC games.

Remember that rockstar demo that had better animation? Wii U already shows what lighting can do (Bird demo, Zelda demo from last year) Watch Dogs also has lighting on a DX11 level, as does Crysis 2. There is particle effects in many PC games that already exceed PS3/XB360, I'm not entirely sure what you are looking for... UE4? Was that really that impressive to you? I mean parts of it looked good, but I doubt PC games like Crysis 3 really look that far behind it. certainly not a generation.

The black magic always happens on consoles though. PC games don't move to the next-generation before consoles usher it in. Then they tag along and run it on higher settings. Whether it's a port or not, almost all of the software advancement comes from consoles.

by 2015 or later maybe, but your wording that I bold'd is wrong, software advancement is done on PCs first and moved onto consoles, that is why they squeeze out better looking stuff year after year, efficiency in the systems are found and developers add more of those PC effects to their console port, look at Crysis 3 on PS360, the developers are doing stuff that "shouldn't be possible on these consoles" yet they are finding ways around the hardware that they found developing their engines on PCs.

 

[StevieP]

The black magic always happens on consoles though. PC games don't move to the next-generation before consoles usher it in. Then they tag along and run it on higher settings. Whether it's a port or not, almost all of the software advancement comes from consoles.

There were PC games running circles around the current crop of consoles before they were even out. There are PC games (and demos) running circles around the next gen consoles already as well, if you think about what having a high end GPU means nowadays in comparison to last generation. More hardware grunt is simply more hardware grunt.

 

[Boss Man]

There were PC games running circles around the current crop of consoles before they were even out. There are PC games (and demos) running circles around the next gen consoles already as well, if you think about what having a high end GPU means nowadays in comparison to last generation. More hardware grunt is simply more hardware grunt.

Show me a high end PC game from 2004 that looks like Uncharted or Gears of War.

The point is just that consoles drive the advancement of software. You'll always be able to build a PC that's more powerful than any console, but that doesn't mean that game developers are pulling (nearly) everything out of it yet.

 

[StevieP]

Show me a high end PC game from 2004 that looks like Uncharted 3.

Find me a PC game that has a blu-ray worth of pre-rendered backgrounds. Let's not derail the thread. We already had finance talk earlier lol

 

[onQ123]

Yes, every game in the world is being built with PS360 in mind. Some of them aren't even made on/for PC and then downported. There are no games on PC, either (is this the modern day version of "PS3 haz no gamez"?). They're all console games.
C'mon man. That's a very macroscopic way of looking at the market. It is true that raising the console hardware baseline will raise many multiplatform games' baselines, but it's not a drastic shift from what we already have. Just more of it and better quality.

it's the truth & Watch Dog & the new Star Wars game are some of the 1st games that have been shown that are not built around PS3/Xbox 360 & lowed spec PCs & the only reason they are being made around higher specs are because the new consoles are on the way.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

by 2015 or later maybe, but your wording that I bold'd is wrong, software advancement is done on PCs first and moved onto consoles, that is why they squeeze out better looking stuff year after year, efficiency in the systems are found and developers add more of those PC effects to their console port, look at Crysis 3 on PS360, the developers are doing stuff that "shouldn't be possible on these consoles" yet they are finding ways around the hardware that they found developing their engines on PCs.

That is far from the truth people do new stuff on consoles to try and get more out of them .
Yes you get new advancements on PC but it's the same for consoles.

 

[H_Prestige]

There were PC games running circles around the current crop of consoles before they were even out. There are PC games (and demos) running circles around the next gen consoles already as well, if you think about what having a high end GPU means nowadays in comparison to last generation. More hardware grunt is simply more hardware grunt.

Any examples?

 

[z0m3le]

That is far from the truth people do new stuff on consoles to try and get more out of them .
Yes you get new advancements on PC but it's the same for consoles.

The engines used the most are UE and Cryengine right? both of those are developed on PCs, the OpenGL standard and DX standard and GPUs themselves are developed on and for PCs. Developers build GPUs with certain features in mind, and later through PCs usually come up with other short cuts for a similar or greater effect. Sure sometimes because consoles are limited, developers are forced to find short cuts that allow them to create effects that they might not of otherwise bothered to do, but that isn't where graphic effects are normally created. That is exactly why developers last year started building engines for next gen consoles before they even knew what a next gen console is... oh and btw "next gen" consoles are using GCN from the current rumors, that exists today, so why would developers be discovering anything from consoles when they are just old pcs.

Any examples?

Far cry and Doom3 for 2004 (can easily stand above any launch 360 game), and Crysis for 2006 demo http://pc.ign.com/articles/705/705150p1.html Crysis of course not running ultra settings well until 2008-2009 would blow just about any game on the PS3/360 away, but even on High settings, it was amazing looking.

 

[Lord Error]

Find me a PC game that has a blu-ray worth of pre-rendered backgrounds.

Pre-rendered backgrounds?

 

[onQ123]

Far cry and Doom3 for 2004 (can easily stand above any launch 360 game), and Crysis for 2006 demo http://pc.ign.com/articles/705/705150p1.html Crysis of course not running ultra settings well until 2008-2009 would blow just about any game on the PS3/360 away, but even on High settings, it was amazing looking.

he told the guy to buy a $500 PC if he want to see the graphics of the next gen consoles.

now go back to 2004 & tell me what $500 PC was able to run games that looked as good as Gears of War a year before these consoles came out?

because I remember my cousin buying a new PC maybe a year after Crysis came out that couldn't play Crysis.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The engines used the most are UE and Cryengine right? both of those are developed on PCs, the OpenGL standard and DX standard and GPUs themselves are developed on and for PCs. Developers build GPUs with certain features in mind, and later through PCs usually come up with other short cuts for a similar or greater effect. Sure sometimes because consoles are limited, developers are forced to find short cuts that allow them to create effects that they might not of otherwise bothered to do, but that isn't where graphic effects are normally created. That is exactly why developers last year started building engines for next gen consoles before they even knew what a next gen console is... oh and btw "next gen" consoles are using GCN from the current rumors, that exists today, so why would developers be discovering anything from consoles when they are just old pcs.

I won't bother to get into this any more since you make up your mind but we are talking about advancements in software .
Not all advancements have to do with gfx.

 

[Dragon]

Pre-rendered backgrounds?

Guy thinks Uncharted is Final Fantasy VII apparently.

 

[StevieP]

Any examples?

No, it's a thread derail. There are some examples already listed and many in the past. Suffice to say, upon release the consoles were using very high-end GPUs and were able to pull a lot of magic through software tricks learned over the past 7 years.

Pre-rendered backgrounds?

Guy thinks Uncharted is Final Fantasy VII apparently.

You guys really didn't know?

he told the guy to buy a $500 PC if he want to see the graphics of the next gen consoles.

I wasn't talking about the past with that figure, I'm talking now. The past "medium-high" end was far more than $500. For somewhere in the neighbourhood of $5-600 bucks *now* you can have a PC with a 4 or more cores (depending on i7/bulldozer,etc) 8GB of DDR3, and a Cape Verde. At least, I did for $600 (in Canada at that).

 

[M°°nblade]

There were PC games running circles around the current crop of consoles before they were even out. There are PC games (and demos) running circles around the next gen consoles already as well, if you think about what having a high end GPU means nowadays in comparison to last generation. More hardware grunt is simply more hardware grunt.

Far cry and Doom3 for 2004 (can easily stand above any launch 360 game), and Crysis for 2006 demo http://pc.ign.com/articles/705/705150p1.html Crysis of course not running ultra settings well until 2008-2009 would blow just about any game on the PS3/360 away, but even on High settings, it was amazing looking.

That's not true.

Farcry and doom 3 didn't run circles around PS3 and Xbox360 games.
Crysis sure won't run circles around PS4 and X720 games.

In fact, all the games you mention actually have versions on the old consoles before the new generation started.

 

[mrklaw]

Yes, every game in the world is being built with PS360 in mind. Some of them aren't even made on/for PC and then downported. There are no games on PC, either (is this the modern day version of "PS3 haz no gamez"?). They're all console games.
C'mon man. That's a very macroscopic way of looking at the market. It is true that raising the console hardware baseline will raise many multiplatform games' baselines, but it's not a drastic shift from what we already have. Just more of it and better quality.

I think his position is more accurate than your sarcastic response suggests. If you are a PC gamer that has spent a lot on equipment, wouldn't you sometimes be curious what you'd get if someone made a game purely for eg 560GTX owners and nobody else? No need to be flexible, no need to worry about how many people will buy your game, so no need to develop to console limitations. The reality is, either games are developed with consoles in mind, and the PC gets higher res textures and can generally run a bit better, or a game leads on PC but still doesn't fully leverage what can be done because of the need to spread your risk and support multiple configs.

Find me a PC game that has a blu-ray worth of pre-rendered backgrounds. Let's not derail the thread. We already had finance talk earlier lol

You can't select what you use for your argument. You can't say PCs are more powerful and then say 'oh but the games didn't have the resources thrown at them'

I think you also need the critical mass of developers too - seeing what everyone is doing, getting ideas how to improve and do new things with the same technical capacity. While you have some amazing devs on PC like crytek, they don't have the peers to learn how to try different things, or people to learn from their techniques.

I can't wait for the baseline to move up and see what can be done with it.

 

[onQ123]

I wasn't talking about the past with that figure, I'm talking now. The past "medium-high" end was far more than $500. For somewhere in the neighbourhood of $5-600 bucks *now* you can have a PC with a 4 or more cores (depending on i7/bulldozer,etc) 8GB of DDR3, and a Cape Verde. At least, I did for $600 (in Canada at that).

I guess we will have to wait & see how well Watch Dog & The New Star Wars game run on your $600 PC.

 

[Lord Error]

You guys really didn't know?

I'm really not sure if that was supposed to be some in-joke, but in case it wasn't, and unless I'm completely crazy, none of the UC games had pre-rendered backgrounds.

 

[i-Lo]

There were PC games running circles around the current crop of consoles before they were even out. There are PC games (and demos) running circles around the next gen consoles already as well, if you think about what having a high end GPU means nowadays in comparison to last generation. More hardware grunt is simply more hardware grunt.

Oh sh!t, PS4 am d0OmD!

Looks like it'll be better to just rebrand PS3 and 360 as PS Orbis and Xbox 8 by just adding in new input devices. This way, at least they'll be on par with Wii U when it comes to launch dates.

 

[StevieP]

I guess we will have to wait & see how well Watch Dog & The New Star Wars game run on your $600 PC.

Who knows. I'll be playing it on my $1500 HTPC gaming rig. lol
Basically the same hardware they used to demo the (PC) game.

Oh sh!t, PS4 am d0OmD!

Looks like it'll be better to just rebrand PS3 and 360 as PS Orbis and Xbox 8 by just adding in new input devices. This way, at least they'll be on par with Wii U when it comes to launch dates.

C'mon dude. The Wii U is weak but it's using more modern tech than either the PS3 or the 360. It's not an overclocked Gamecube anymore (or 360). The Orbis and Durango are going to be orders of magnitude more powerful than the PS360, but that doesn't mean they match high end hardware from PCs today. That's all. They're still both a huge jump over current consoles.

I'm really not sure if that was supposed to be some in-joke, but in case it wasn't, and unless I'm completely crazy, none of the UC games had pre-rendered backgrounds.

Not across the board in all scenes, no. But they do.

 

[dragonelite]

I'm really not sure if that was supposed to be some in-joke, but in case it wasn't, and unless I'm completely crazy, none of the UC games had pre-rendered backgrounds.

You can't see it come on even the famous city roof zip line part of uncharted 2 has pre rendered backgrounds.
But then i want to know what you mean with backgrounds.

 

[mrklaw]

You can't see it come on even the famous city roof zip line part of uncharted 2 has pre rendered backgrounds.
But then i want to know what you mean with backgrounds.

Of course they'll have mattes for far off stuff, just like a skybox. GT does that too.

I don't care how they do what they do, as long as it works. I don't need a siggraph presentation on the screen to be impressed - if anything I'm more impressed by smart smoke and mirrors

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

Are people really accepting that PS4 and 720 will just be a prettier version of what we have now? If so, what will be point of buying new hardware? Theres no way im buying a PS4 thats going to run a new batman game with just prettier textures and animation. I want something new and revolutionary. In Fallout 4 i want to see every tree swaying in the wind, dirt flying in the air and debris with intricate detail. Not one large texture. I want the lone wanderer's clothes move to my movement, i want it to get dirty........in real time. I want to be able to walk in every building with me opening the doors. When it rains i want my clothes to get wet.......in real time. And get saggy. I want to see puddles form and see the reflection of the environment inside the puddle........in real time.

Basically, i want a next generation console, not some half assed PS3.4 or Xbox 360.7 1/2 20.

 

[M°°nblade]

C'mon dude. The Wii U is weak but it's using more modern tech than either the PS3 or the 360. It's not an overclocked Gamecube anymore (or 360). The Orbis and Durango are going to be orders of magnitude more powerful than the PS360, but that doesn't mean they match high end hardware from PCs today. That's all. They're still both a huge jump over current consoles.

The general consensus is that the Wii U is in the current gen ballpark while Epic has announced Orbis and Durango will be the targets of UE4.

What arguments do you have to deviate from all this?

 

[Lord Error]

You can't see it come on even the famous city roof zip line part of uncharted 2 has pre rendered backgrounds.

You mean like skyboxes showing parts of background scenery? Because pre-rendered backgrounds normally means stuff like in REmake or Onimusha games, where you have a pre-rendered video loop as a background, which takes huge disc space. If skyboxes is what's being pointed here, I don't see how bluray space comes into any kind of discussion. They don't take much space, HL2 and many other games utilized same approach to display distant background scenery.

I have a feeling SteveP wasn't talking about that, but then I have no idea what he was talking about.

 

[Clear]

But then i want to know what you mean with backgrounds.

Billboard (flat) textures to stand in for actual geometry, which is a time-proven method that is both computational efficient and provides a superior result.

In Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey in many instances prelit, photographic cut-outs were used in place of models because they allowed for better and more consistent lighting within the scene. Cinema has a grand tradition of using painted and photographic tableaux to stand in for dimensional (modelled) scenery that has persisted since Melies right through to our present digital age.

Complaining that its a "cheat" is senseless because its all about the end result. How can it be "less real" when all virtual imagery is illusory.

 

[Boss Man]

Are people really accepting that PS4 and 720 will just be a prettier version of what we have now? If so, what will be point of buying new hardware? Theres no way im buying a PS4 thats going to run a new batman game with just prettier textures and animation. I want something new and revolutionary. In Fallout 4 i want to see every tree swaying in the wind, dirt flying in the air and debris with intricate detail. Not one large texture. I want the lone wanderer's clothes move to my movement, i want it to get dirty........in real time. I want to be able to walk in every building with me opening the doors. When it rains i want my clothes to get wet.......in real time. And get saggy. I want to see puddles form and see the reflection of the environment inside the puddle........in real time.

Basically, i want a next generation console, not some half assed PS3.4 or Xbox 360.7 1/2 20.

Yup, and that's what you'll get. Granted, if there's a PC version it will run at a higher frame rate, but new consoles are going to produce a lot more than what we're seeing from mid-range or even high-end PC's right now. That's just not how the industry works.

If you went back seven years and someone asked you what a PC with the PS3's specs could produce, showing them Uncharted 3 would make them shit their pants. Console development drives progress in the game industry.

 

[i-Lo]

C'mon dude. The Wii U is weak but it's using more modern tech than either the PS3 or the 360. It's not an overclocked Gamecube anymore (or 360). The Orbis and Durango are going to be orders of magnitude more powerful than the PS360, but that doesn't mean they match high end hardware from PCs today. That's all. They're still both a huge jump over current consoles.

I know, I was being sarcastic.

Are people really accepting that PS4 and 720 will just be a prettier version of what we have now? If so, what will be point of buying new hardware? Theres no way im buying a PS4 thats going to run a new batman game with just prettier textures and animation. I want something new and revolutionary. In Fallout 4 i want to see every tree swaying in the wind, dirt flying in the air and debris with intricate detail. Not one large texture. I want the lone wanderer's clothes move to my movement, i want it to get dirty........in real time. I want to be able to walk in every building with me opening the doors. When it rains i want my clothes to get wet.......in real time. And get saggy. I want to see puddles form and see the reflection of the environment inside the puddle........in real time.

Basically, i want a next generation console, not some half assed PS3.4 or Xbox 360.7 1/2 20.

Well, the first order of business is to increase fidelity followed by controlling the costs. Personally, I can already see Sony's ICE team working in conjunction with almost all western devs to create a single engine that can be modified to fit the specs for all their first party games.

Secondly, as StevieP puts it, get a PC as PS4 is at this point in time already outmatched by PC and judging by what they can do (from yet to be finished games like SW1313 and WatchDogs) your desires will be met by some disappointment on PC and even greater one on console.

Honestly, by the sound of some here, if you are performance concious buyer, PS4 is an outdated piece of tech only worth 4 shillings. So save your money and get a PC and if you want a console (which are obviously not made for power but rather with this fluffy thing called, "FUN") you know which manufacturer to turn to. Fuck, the consoles should have stuck to 8 bit graphics only. I can only imagine how awesome gameplay would have been since all the focus would have been on that, obviously.

Spoiler

/sarcasm. I am just a bitter young man lol.

 

[dragonelite]

Billboard (flat) textures to stand in for actual geometry, which is a time-proven method that is both computational efficient and provides a superior result.

In Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey in many instances prelit, photographic cut-outs were used in place of models because they allowed for better and more consistent lighting within the scene. Cinema has a grand tradition of using painted and photographic tableaux to stand in for dimensional (modelled) scenery that has persisted since Melies right through to our present digital age.

Complaining that its a "cheat" is senseless because its all about the end result. How can it be "less real" when all virtual imagery is illusory.

Rendering(cgi), cheat were you can cheat rendering costs time and time is money so cheat.
With games the same if it means use bilboards so the lighting is can be better be my guess and do it.

 

[mrklaw]

Yup, and that's what you'll get. Granted, if there's a PC version it will run at a higher frame rate, but new consoles are going to produce a lot more than what we're seeing from mid-range or even high-end PC's right now. That's just not how the industry works.

If you went back seven years and someone asked you what a PC with the PS3's specs could produce, showing them Uncharted 3 would make them shit their pants. Console development drives progress in the game industry.

Yup.

All these fancy compute shaders in GPUs doing sod all. I'm looking forward to console devs seeing what ways they can leverage the power they'll have.

That isn't crapping on PC developers, just the sheer number of console developers working on a single spec, means they are more likely to come up with innovative ways to push the envelope, partly through need as PCs will be able to apply grunt to a problem

 

[Canis lupus]

Show me a high end PC game from 2004 that looks like Uncharted or Gears of War.

The point is just that consoles drive the advancement of software. You'll always be able to build a PC that's more powerful than any console, but that doesn't mean that game developers are pulling (nearly) everything out of it yet.

Indeed man, how could you even compare the first Far Cry with games like Uncharted 3?

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

Yup, and that's what you'll get. Granted, if there's a PC version it will run at a higher frame rate, but new consoles are going to produce a lot more than what we're seeing from mid-range or even high-end PC's right now. That's just not how the industry works.

If you went back seven years and someone asked you what a PC with the PS3's specs could produce, showing them Uncharted 3 would make them shit their pants. Console development drives progress in the game industry.

I know PC's will always run higher than consoles, thats just the way it is. But i don't know why some are expecting, and are ok with, some small jump in quality next generation. I expect a large difference, if not i wont be buying anything.

Well, the first order of business is to increase fidelity followed by controlling the costs. Personally, I can already see Sony's ICE team working in conjunction with almost all western devs to create a single engine that can be modified to fit the specs for all their first party games.

Secondly, as StevieP puts it, get a PC as PS4 is at this point in time already outmatched by PC and judging by what they can do (from yet to be finished games like SW1313 and WatchDogs) your desires will be met by some disappointment on PC and even greater one on console.

Honestly, by the sound of some here, if you are performance concious buyer, PS4 is an outdated piece of tech only worth 4 shillings. So save your money and get a PC and if you want a console (which are obviously not made for power but rather with this fluffy thing called, "FUN") you know which manufacturer to turn to. Fuck, the consoles should have stuck to 8 bit graphics only. I can only imagine how awesome gameplay would have been since all the focus would have been on that, obviously.

Ok, cool. So where can i buy sony's first party titles? Same for 360 owners and nintendo owners.

That argument needs to die in a fire. It doesn't take into account the games you can't play on PC.

 

[KageMaru]

The black magic always happens on consoles though. PC games don't move to the next-generation before consoles usher it in.

This is factually untrue. For at least the last two generations, tech was being pushed on PC before that generation of consoles even launched.

iD, crytek, and Monolith didn't wait for the ps360 before developing Doom 3, far cry, and Fear.

 

[StevieP]

That argument needs to die in a fire. It doesn't take into account the games you can't play on PC.

That's true, and platform exclusives are eventually going to be glorious. Why? Because if the game is appropriate for it (i.e. less LBP, more LoU), the developer of said game will use every trick in the book that they've learned over the years of working on said platform to deliver the goods.

With that said, many of you are expecting too much in my opinion.
The target specs have been discussed over and over, and you know what you have because it's already available to you. Hi-resolution debris? Walk in every building you can see?

These things aren't a function of hardware grunt as much as they are time and money. Lots of time and lots of money. Things like moving clothing and walking into lakes/puddles resulting in wet and soggy clothing have been done in generations past with far far less hardware juice, let alone this one or next. Time and money.

 

[z0m3le]

I guess we will have to wait & see how well Watch Dog & The New Star Wars game run on your $600 PC.

http://i.imgur.com/Ey4AG.jpg

With the coupons and rebate it's ~$620 and you could go with 4GB of ram to get it @ the $600. Oh and it also comes with 3 free games.

The GPU is 3154GFLOPs and the CPU is a quad core @ 3.6GHz but it does turbo to 3.8 and is unlocked if you want to get it to 4GHz. Pretty sure this PC will run those games just fine.

So... just to point this out... 1.843 GFLOPs, even doubled, comparing to HD7970 favorably is sort of pointless for 2 reasons... HD7970GHz edition is 4.1TFLOPs, and HD9970 will be launching along side these consoles, with over 5TFLOPs of perfromance.

It's just pointless to compare PS4 to high end computers, and I hope some people stop before I go insane. PS4's GPU power will be equal to a 1.8GFLOPs gpu though it should handle code better, it won't meet favorably with an HD7970.

Just something I said in the Wii U thread, in 2013 you could buy this PC or one comparable to it for probably under $500.

 

[onQ123]

http://i.imgur.com/Ey4AG.jpg

With the coupons and rebate it's ~$620 and you could go with 4GB of ram to get it @ the $600. Oh and it also comes with 3 free games.

The GPU is 3154GFLOPs and the CPU is a quad core @ 3.6GHz but it does turbo to 3.8 and is unlocked if you want to get it to 4GHz. Pretty sure this PC will run those games just fine.



Just something I said in the Wii U thread, in 2013 you could buy this PC or one comparable to it for probably under $500.

he said a $500 PC & that his was $600 because he is in Canada. don't rig the scale with your coupons lol

 

[i-Lo]

Ok, cool. So where can i buy sony's first party titles? Same for 360 owners and nintendo owners.

That argument needs to die in a fire. It doesn't take into account the games you can't play on PC.

But PS3 haz no gaemz! I think you missed the /sarcasm part lol.

Seriously though, exclusives are the reason why consoles are still quite relevant. In that regard, Sony's direction of buying smaller studios should see benefits down the line.

That's true, and platform exclusives are eventually going to be glorious. Why? Because if the game is appropriate for it (i.e. less LBP, more LoU), the developer of said game will use every trick in the book that they've learned over the years of working on said platform to deliver the goods.

With that said, many of you are expecting too much in my opinion.
The target specs have been discussed over and over, and you know what you have because it's already available to you. Hi-resolution debris? Walk in every building you can see?

These things aren't a function of hardware grunt as much as they are time and money. Lots of time and lots of money. Things like moving clothing and walking into lakes/puddles resulting in wet and soggy clothing have been done in generations past with far far less hardware juice, let alone this one or next. Time and money.

The target specs are discussed over and over and at this point in time is optimistic vs realistic vs pessimistic speculations. That's the problem. Heck, at least after the official specs are leaked the discussion is going to jump to what it means to have that power in a console and once again, it'll be courted by three viewpoints.

I do however, agree with the notion that some of the detail oriented pursuits are more dependent on time and money rather being contingent of technology. That's also one reason why "real world physics" would be improved and should be lumped with any and all engines on which games are going to be created. Things are going to get a lot more real time and procedural next gen to reduce time dev time.

 

[z0m3le]

he said a $500 PC & that his was $600 because he is in Canada. don't rig the scale with your coupons lol

I wasn't trying to Rig the scale, the coupons are on the site and given to you for free... a $500 PC would just be a change out of the GPU to the HD7870, and next year it would be the HD8870, of course next year like I said that PC would be worth ~$500 and that $600 figure was your point, but I didn't know we were talking about canadian dollars.

600.00 CAD = 592.34 USD That is the current exchange rate... so I'm not sure that I really even need to worry about if it's Canadian or not.

 

[Glorified G]

I guess we will have to wait & see how well Watch Dog & The New Star Wars game run on your $600 PC.

Exactly, I can't believe people still don't understand this concept. I would love to see a high end pc in 2005/2006 that would of cost 3X as much as the 360 was released run a 3rd party game just as well as the 360 version right now.

 

[StevieP]

I wasn't trying to Rig the scale, the coupons are on the site and given to you for free... a $500 PC would just be a change out of the GPU to the HD7870, and next year it would be the HD8870, of course next year like I said that PC would be worth ~$500 and that $600 figure was your point, but I didn't know we were talking about canadian dollars.

600.00 CAD = 592.34 USD That is the current exchange rate... so I'm not sure that I really even need to worry about if it's Canadian or not.

FYI, though the exchange rates are pretty even nowadays things still cost a bit more. Not a lot, just a bit. When our taxes are taken into equation it's a bit more on top of that even. With that said, your $600 PC example smokes both next gen Sony/MS consoles and demolishes the Wii U. It is, however, contingent on one already having an operating system to use.

I do however, agree with the notion that some of the detail oriented pursuits are more dependent on time and money rather being contingent of technology.

Right, and the way budgets are already for the high-end game it's an important factor to consider as a publisher when devoting resources to your project.

Exactly, I can't believe people still don't understand this concept.

Gigaflops (and other various units of measurement used) are not variable between a PC graphics chip and a console graphics chip. You have what you have.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

http://i.imgur.com/Ey4AG.jpg

With the coupons and rebate it's ~$620 and you could go with 4GB of ram to get it @ the $600. Oh and it also comes with 3 free games.

The GPU is 3154GFLOPs and the CPU is a quad core @ 3.6GHz but it does turbo to 3.8 and is unlocked if you want to get it to 4GHz. Pretty sure this PC will run those games just fine.



Just something I said in the Wii U thread, in 2013 you could buy this PC or one comparable to it for probably under $500.

I love these PC build examples that don't include operating systems or accessories.

 

[z0m3le]

I love these PC build examples that don't include operating systems or accessories.

Windows 8 beta is free, and new it will cost $40, and if you can't find a keyboard and mouse for $10 don't come crying to me, they are all over the place... in the end someone could even use Linux if they wanted, steam is heavily investing in it right now, so expect games to be there for next gen.

Still we are looking at a PC 1.5 years before PS4 even hits the market... prices will drop even further.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Windows 8 beta is free, and new it will cost $40, and if you can't find a keyboard and mouse for $10 don't come crying to me, they are all over the place... in the end someone could even use Linux if they wanted, steam is heavily investing in it right now, so expect games to be there for next gen.

Still we are looking at a PC 1.5 years before PS4 even hits the market... prices will drop even further.

A beta OS? And that 40 dollars is for an upgrade, not a full version.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but those build examples are disingenuous. Stop evangelizing and get real.

 

[hodgy100]

Windows 8 beta is free, and new it will cost $40, and if you can't find a keyboard and mouse for $10 don't come crying to me, they are all over the place... in the end someone could even use Linux if they wanted, steam is heavily investing in it right now, so expect games to be there for next gen.

Still we are looking at a PC 1.5 years before PS4 even hits the market... prices will drop even further.

Plus Pc games are tend to be much cheaper than console games.

 

[dragonelite]

Windows 8 beta is free, and new it will cost $40, and if you can't find a keyboard and mouse for $10 don't come crying to me, they are all over the place... in the end someone could even use Linux if they wanted, steam is heavily investing in it right now, so expect games to be there for next gen.

Still we are looking at a PC 1.5 years before PS4 even hits the market... prices will drop even further.

Windows is always free for me, or $10 if i get it through uni.

Spoiler

I mostly buy new hardware every 3 years or so

 

[z0m3le]

A beta OS? And that 40 dollars is for an upgrade, not a full version.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but those build examples are disingenuous. Stop evangelizing and get real.

drop to 4GB ram, save $20... drop the CPU to a 3core 3.3GHZ AMD althon2 79.99 (save 30) drop the HD7950 for an HD7870, (save 30) pick up Windows 7 home for $100... heck that is still coming with a free game and you could go even cheaper with the HD7850, again 2 years before PS4 is released... next year this PC will cost 100 less, and really anyone thinking about going to a new pc probably can use the same CASE, PSU, Hard drive, which saves 100 right there, and they can also use the same OS that they have in that hard drive...(saving another 100) so it all just sounds like nitpicking to me.

 

[i-Lo]

Windows 8 beta is free, and new it will cost $40, and if you can't find a keyboard and mouse for $10 don't come crying to me, they are all over the place... in the end someone could even use Linux if they wanted, steam is heavily investing in it right now, so expect games to be there for next gen.

Still we are looking at a PC 1.5 years before PS4 even hits the market... prices will drop even further.

Plus Pc games are tend to be much cheaper than console games.

O shit, then what are we doing with consoles altogether? Burn them heathens for their powers bewitched us and robbed our perception from the only truth, that we can build a much more powerful machine for the same price as a console. All hail $600, all hail PC.

In all seriousness though, the only limiting factor I can tell as to why consoles are going to be less powerful compared PC for the comparable prices (well perhaps a few hundred dollars) is the PSU. For reason of reliability (or so it is said) consoles can't apparently exceed a 'magical' barrier of around 210W unlike the PC shown with 480W.

 

[StevieP]

In all seriousness though, the only limiting factor I can tell as to why consoles are going to be less powerful compared PC for the comparable prices (well perhaps a few hundred dollars) is the PSU. For reason of reliability (or so it is said) consoles can't apparently exceed a 'magical' barrier of around 210W unlike the PC shown with 480W.

Nothing to do with a reliability factor of a power supply, really just 'how big and loud do you want it' (and conversely, how expensive) - and the HD consoles were pushing that already a bit this gen with ~200w boxes.

The launch 360 was a wreck in more than just a size/noise regard, however, as is well known.