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[PopcornMegaphone]

drop to 4GB ram, save $20... drop the CPU to a 3core 3.3GHZ AMD althon2 79.99 (save 30) drop the HD7950 for an HD7870, (save 30) pick up Windows 7 home for $100... heck that is still coming with a free game and you could go even cheaper with the HD7850, again 2 years before PS4 is released... next year this PC will cost 100 less, and really anyone thinking about going to a new pc probably can use the same CASE, PSU, Hard drive, which saves 100 right there, and they can also use the same OS that they have in that hard drive...(saving another 100) so it all just sounds like nitpicking to me.

I don't think asking that a PC build example have some semblance of the real world is nitpicking.

 

[Clear]

With games the same if it means use bilboards so the lighting is can be better be my guess and do it.

Lighting is an obvious saving, but you also don't have to worry so much about parallax and simulating large-scale atmospheric effects like rayleigh scattering (the blue-ish tinge you get on distant objects). All doable stuff, but computationally expensive and wasteful of memory if its not being used generally in the game/scene.

The basic principle is not using a 10$ solution when a 10c one will get the desired result!

 

[coldfoot]

drop to 4GB ram, save $20... drop the CPU to a 3core 3.3GHZ AMD althon2 79.99 (save 30) drop the HD7950 for an HD7870, (save 30) pick up Windows 7 home for $100... heck that is still coming with a free game and you could go even cheaper with the HD7850, again 2 years before PS4 is released... next year this PC will cost 100 less, and really anyone thinking about going to a new pc probably can use the same CASE, PSU, Hard drive, which saves 100 right there, and they can also use the same OS that they have in that hard drive...(saving another 100) so it all just sounds like nitpicking to me.

How much does your time cost to assemble, set up, and test all that? I figure at least 4 hours of assembly, windows install, drivers, updates, etc and more if there's a faulty component that needs to be troubleshot and resolved/replaced. How much time did it cost you to acquire those skills? How much time would a technician charge to do all that for you if you're not knowledgable? A good KB/mouse is also closer to $50 than $10.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

http://i.imgur.com/Ey4AG.jpg
Just something I said in the Wii U thread, in 2013 you could buy this PC or one comparable to it for probably under $500.

Which is why I logically assume the PS4 specs will get much better then the ones listed in the OP. Especially if the launch has been delayed and there not going to release tell 2014. Even if its a Nov/Dec 2013 launch they will get better. Thats almost a year and a half from now. A few pages back we agree that it was very reasonable to expect Sony to loose $100 per console not counting accessories that are included in the box.

 

[z0m3le]

Which is why I logically assume the PS4 specs will get much better then the ones listed in the OP. Especially if the launch has been delayed and there not going to release tell 2014. Even if its a Nov/Dec 2013 launch they will get better. Thats almost a year and a half from now. A few pages back we agree that it was very reasonable to expect Sony to loose $100 per console not counting accessories that are included in the box.

Vita specs were leaked 18months - 2 years before launch and they stayed exactly the same right? so maybe they will change, but we don't KNOW that.

How much does your time cost to assemble, set up, and test all that? I figure at least 4 hours of assembly, windows install, drivers, updates, etc and more if there's a faulty component that needs to be troubleshot and resolved/replaced. How much time did it cost you to acquire those skills? How much time would a technician charge to do all that for you if you're not knowledgable? A good KB/mouse is also closer to $50 than $10.

I personally can build that in under 30 minutes, and Windows install takes 20-30 minutes with that set up... a good KB/MOUSE? all you need is a laser mouse and a keyboard, and heck if we are comparing to consoles, an optical is more than enough to beat double analog, that certainly isn't costing anyone 50, 20 at most for a laser mouse and keyboard. As for not being able to assemble your own, yes you have a point there, you'd have to buy a pc and install a GPU in it or have that done for you... but in that case, I doubt you should really buy a PC at all.

 

[StevieP]

Which is why I logically assume the PS4 specs will get much better then the ones listed in the OP. Especially if the launch has been delayed and there not going to release tell 2014.

I don't think so Tim

Even if its a Nov/Dec 2013 launch they will get better. Thats almost a year and a half from now. A few pages back we agree that it was very reasonable to expect Sony to loose $100 per console not counting accessories that are included in the box.

From a former Microsoft employee and moderator at Beyond3D:

You guys read way to much into early devkits, they're an indicator of the general architecture and very rough performance (sometimes), and not very much else.
Before devkits with real silicon are available, usually less than 12 months before launch, devkits are there to let developers play with the new feature sets and the core OS API's, often with very different performance profiles.
Specs usually are "locked" and I use the term loosely down 2+ years before a product launches. That's not to say they don't "evolve" as process issues arrise, or partners deadlines slip, or information about a competitors platform leak, but you rarely see wholesale changes.
The 360 devkits had 2 different video cards, neither of which were very much like the final hardware, but with the exception of the late memory size change, disclosed developers knew what was in the final box before the first devkit even shipped.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1653227&postcount=12899

Now what you've seen aren't "dev kit specs" - the thing with 2GB GDDR5 UMA, a 4-core AMD CPU (Steamroller) and an underclocked Pitcairn-like GPU with 18CUs providing 1.8tf? Those are "target specs" - what they hope to achieve in the final box. Things may change. Some easier to change than others (ram, like MS, is the biggest developer outcry here) but that's what they hope to get.

I can attest to knowing what he said of the Xbox 360 target specs as per the bolded example (and how they matched the final hardware outside the memory and the CPU being changed to in-order) because I have a document sitting here in front of me from 2004 basically detailing every part inside the box.

From what little we've had leaked, we might have a situation where it's possible they've swapped Steamroller for Jaguar in the APU/SoC. We also know that their first parties are asking them to make miracles happen with memory manufacturers so that they can have more ram as well but we haven't heard yet if it's produced any results. Certainly memory densities haven't gone up and stacking isn't quite ready for prime time in a mass-manufacture situation quite yet.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

It makes no sense comparing systems that not out yet to PC parts you can buy right now for a GFX comparison .
When the system comes out for lets say 400 compare the GFX for a game then and see if PC can give you the same GFX for the same price.

 

[i-Lo]

I don't think so Tim

From a former Microsoft employee and moderator at Beyond3D:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1653227&postcount=12899

Now what you've seen aren't "dev kit specs" - the thing with 2GB GDDR5 UMA, a 4-core AMD CPU (Steamroller) and an underclocked Pitcairn-like GPU with 18CUs providing 1.8tf? Those are "target specs" - what they hope to achieve in the final box. Things may change. Some easier to change than others (ram, like MS, is the biggest developer outcry here) but that's what they hope to get.

I can attest to knowing the Xbox 360 target specs as per the bolded example (and how they matched the final hardware outside the memory and the CPU being changed to in-order) because I have a document sitting here in front of me from 2004 basically detailing every part inside the box.

From what little we've had leaked, we might have a situation where it's possible they've swapped Steamroller for Jaguar in the APU/SoC. We also know that their first parties are asking them to make miracles happen with memory manufacturers so that they can have more ram as well but we haven't heard yet if it's produced any results. Certainly memory densities haven't gone up and stacking isn't quite ready for prime time in a mass-manufacture situation quite yet.

This Tim fellow must be someone who you like to disappoint on a regular basis.

Now, with regards to last paragraph, are you stating that even though the basic design specs are locked in for the overall infrastructure, the individual components aren't allowed too much flexibility? For example, when AMD launches the HD8XXX line and its 88XX sub class allows for greater flops for lesser power, won't AMD integrate that in PS4 given Sea Island design should already be well into the pipeline for early next year introduction. And if their GPU line and console development are running nearly parallel then why would AMD or Sony rob or be robbed of more perf/watt? And then how exactly does 1.8TF remains the target spec next year if crossing 2TF becomes possibility with the same wattage restriction?

 

[StevieP]

This Tim fellow must be someone who you like to disappoint on a regular basis.

Now, with regards to last paragraph, are you stating that even though the basic design specs are locked in for the overall infrastructure, the individual components aren't allowed too much flexibility? For example, when AMD launches the HD8XXX line and its 88XX sub class allows for greater flops for lesser power, won't AMD integrate that in PS4 given Sea Island design should already be well into the pipeline for early next year introduction. And if their GPU line and console development are running nearly parallel then why would AMD or Sony rob or be robbed of more perf/watt? And then how exactly does 1.8TF remains the target spec next year if crossing 2TF becomes possibility with the same wattage restriction?

Maybe I should've said "GCN" instead of Pitcairn-like. Sea Islands is an iteration of Southern Islands. Same architecture, obviously, gains in perf per watt. Will those improvements go into the PS4 chip? Maybe?

But they will be looking to hit those targets you see written down in the leak, give or take a bit. Like ERP said, minor things can change/evolve/etc. Memory is the big one here. Maybe they will get to 2TF. Maybe they'll have to downclock the GPU to fit a cooler within a certain budget and noise level and only hit 1.7. This is all speculation at this point, though, and as he's said - there may be slight revisions to the spec. The fact is that when Sony sent those out late last year, they told developers "make games with this in mind", basically.

I can't and won't pretend to know what's inside the final PS4 because there isn't one yet. What you see is what Sony wants inside it as of late last year. There have not been any substantial leaks since.

 

[Boss Man]

Whether this is a real pic or not, I do not know. However I do know that the Durango dev kit is literally in a standard PC case. Because that's what it is.



You can see them right now, by building a $500 PC. lol
It's big because they're standard PC cases.

And to those who wish to see Sony wait until 2014 to release the PS4: why would you want Sony sentenced to death, basically? For more power? Really guys? C'mon, like I said earlier in this thread - this gen is on its way out and all 3 consoles have basically hit a plateau. Yes, a price cut will help all of them - but only temporarily.

The console maker that waits until 2014 for a product (and mind share) refresh is the console maker that will tank itself.

Since this discussion is never going to end naturally and it's not exactly on topic, can we leave it at a challenge?

You show me what a $500 PC can currently produce, and then we'll go ahead and bump this thread in a few years to see who was right.

 

[StevieP]

Since this discussion is never going to end naturally and it's not exactly on topic, can we leave it at a challenge?

You show me the best graphics a $500 PC can produce, and then we'll go ahead and bump this thread in a few years and see who's right.

Nah, we've honestly derailed the thread enough. Let's go back into discussing the PS4.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

Maybe I should've said "GCN" instead of Pitcairn-like. Sea Islands is an iteration of Southern Islands. Same architecture, obviously, gains in perf per watt. Will those improvements go into the PS4 chip? Maybe?

But they will be looking to hit those targets you see written down in the leak, give or take a bit. Like ERP said, minor things can change/evolve/etc. Memory is the big one here. Maybe they will get to 2TF. Maybe they'll have to downclock the GPU to fit a cooler within a certain budget and noise level and only hit 1.7. This is all speculation at this point, though, and as he's said - there may be slight revisions to the spec. The fact is that when Sony sent those out late last year, they told developers "make games with this in mind", basically.

I can't and won't pretend to know what's inside the final PS4 because there isn't one yet. What you see is what Sony wants inside it as of late last year. There have not been any substantial leaks since.

Isnt the Sea Islands supposed to include HSA architecture and therefor be much more efficient?

I don't think so Tim

First LOL, and then...Theres a lot of evidence to support this. They stated in the conference call to stockholders less than two months ago there in no rush to release a next gen console. That not a PR statement, they wont mislead there stockholders. Combined this with other comments like, "we wont release a next gen console until we can provide a full next gen jump that will last 10 years" and there loaded 2013 release line up for PS3, AND the memory density problems its very conceivable that the launch has been DELAYED. Why do you think a Fall 2014 release is so far outside the realm of possibility? MS will obviously do the same, the only reason they were rumored to release in 2013 was cause they thought Sony was going to.

Another wards in come the 3D stacking with 4GB-6GB of GDDR5 memory, and the 2.5tflop GPU with newer architecture. *does the happy dance*

 

[mrklaw]

Maybe I should've said "GCN" instead of Pitcairn-like. Sea Islands is an iteration of Southern Islands. Same architecture, obviously, gains in perf per watt. Will those improvements go into the PS4 chip? Maybe?

But they will be looking to hit those targets you see written down in the leak, give or take a bit. Like ERP said, minor things can change/evolve/etc. Memory is the big one here. Maybe they will get to 2TF. Maybe they'll have to downclock the GPU to fit a cooler within a certain budget and noise level and only hit 1.7. This is all speculation at this point, though, and as he's said - there may be slight revisions to the spec. The fact is that when Sony sent those out late last year, they told developers "make games with this in mind", basically.

I can't and won't pretend to know what's inside the final PS4 because there isn't one yet. What you see is what Sony wants inside it as of late last year. There have not been any substantial leaks since.

Depending when Sony need to get dev software ready, and how abstracted the GPU drivers are, does that restrict how much flexibility they have? Or are these slightly different GPUs so close in architecture that it wouldn't matter?

 

[El_Chino]

Is there an Xbox related thread similar to this one?

 

[McLovin]

Don't know about building a pc, but I bought one of those all in one pcs for like 800 three years ago(pc/monitor combo). Half life 2 visuals were somewhere between n64 and ps2. Super meat boy ran at a cool 10 fps:

 

[dragonelite]

Is there an Xbox related thread similar to this one?

There is/was but i think we just keep next gen talk in this thread because it is always on page 1 most of the time..

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Is there an Xbox related thread similar to this one?

The most recent one is here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=478668&page=26

 

[El_Chino]

Thanks guys.

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

Nah, we've honestly derailed the thread enough. Let's go back into discussing the PS4.

Can the PS4 run Star Wars 1313 easily with tons of headroom?

As i said, if it can't, what's the point? This gen is 8 years old!

That's true, and platform exclusives are eventually going to be glorious. Why? Because if the game is appropriate for it (i.e. less LBP, more LoU), the developer of said game will use every trick in the book that they've learned over the years of working on said platform to deliver the goods.

With that said, many of you are expecting too much in my opinion.
The target specs have been discussed over and over, and you know what you have because it's already available to you. Hi-resolution debris? Walk in every building you can see?

These things aren't a function of hardware grunt as much as they are time and money. Lots of time and lots of money. Things like moving clothing and walking into lakes/puddles resulting in wet and soggy clothing have been done in generations past with far far less hardware juice, let alone this one or next. Time and money.

I don't think we're expecing too much at all. As long as this gen has be going with 2005 tech, it's perfectly reasonable, imo, to expect something significantly better. Remember when Super Mario64 was first revealed? I want that to happen again.


Those little details have been done, yes. But on a basic level (Yep even uncharted). Nowher near the fidelity it can be. Heck, there's not even a PC game that does what im talking about perfectly.

 

[USC-fan]

There were PC games running circles around the current crop of consoles before they were even out. There are PC games (and demos) running circles around the next gen consoles already as well, if you think about what having a high end GPU means nowadays in comparison to last generation. More hardware grunt is simply more hardware grunt.

Lol you don't have a clue. I was around before these console launch and you couldn't be more wrong. Nvidia had one gpu a 7900 gtx that could out match the rsx on paper. Xbox 360 was in a class of it own when it launch a year before ps3.

You just keep living up to your tag.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

This Tim fellow must be someone who you like to disappoint on a regular basis.

Now, with regards to last paragraph, are you stating that even though the basic design specs are locked in for the overall infrastructure, the individual components aren't allowed too much flexibility? For example, when AMD launches the HD8XXX line and its 88XX sub class allows for greater flops for lesser power, won't AMD integrate that in PS4 given Sea Island design should already be well into the pipeline for early next year introduction. And if their GPU line and console development are running nearly parallel then why would AMD or Sony rob or be robbed of more perf/watt? And then how exactly does 1.8TF remains the target spec next year if crossing 2TF becomes possibility with the same wattage restriction?

I completely agree with you. This is my line of thinking as well. We should be able to expect a 2tflop+ gpu with 2013 architecture. I also dont think were expecting to much as far as the increase in visuals. The thing is yes we do have similar hardware now with 2tflop gpu's and more modern architecture, but none of it has been fully taken advantage of yet. Within a close boxed system like the next gen consoles will be it should display amazing results. Try running Uncharted 3 or something equivalent on a nvidia 7800 gpu and the results will be unplayable.

 

[CorrisD]

Can the PS4 run Star Wars 1313 easily with tons of headroom?

As i said, if it can't, what's the point? This gen is 8 years old!

I very much doubt Lucasarts would be developing it if they couldn't run it on next-gen systems, they themselves didn't release either of the Force Unleashed games on PC which were like their two main titles this gen.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion, the person who posted above me is right, they are worth a lot more than 20Billion, I read an in depth article that had put Sony's value at 21-24billion back in march, but it was obviously not counting the 166billion of assets.

Sony will be paying 14.2billion on short term loans, that is why they are short term loans and not this: http://ycharts.com/companies/SNE/long_term_debt $13Billion

Why do you keep posting this when it's inaccurate and/or you're interpretting it wrong?

 

[z0m3le]

Why do you keep posting this when it's inaccurate and/or you're interpretting it wrong?

If you keep reading, I did correct myself, but I'll let you read that, as I'm sure you at least read the comments right below that including mine that correct the issue, it won't come up again but if it does you can point to this post right here and call me a troll.

 

[bgassassin]

Can the PS4 run Star Wars 1313 easily with tons of headroom?

As i said, if it can't, what's the point? This gen is 8 years old!

Tons of headroom is very likely asking too much.

 

[shinra-bansho]

If you keep reading, I did correct myself, but I'll let you read that, as I'm sure you at least read the comments right below that including mine that correct the issue, it won't come up again but if it does you can point to this post right here and call me a troll.

What are you including in "debt"? Short term borrowings, accounts payable, trade notes? Do you mean liabilities?

And if you don't know what's included why are you posting it from some random site. Sony's full balance sheet is in the public domain.

 

[bigtroyjon]

If you keep reading, I did correct myself, but I'll let you read that, as I'm sure you at least read the comments right below that including mine that correct the issue, it won't come up again but if it does you can point to this post right here and call me a troll.

You aren't a troll, just somebody that constantly posts incorrect information and when called out on it, you pull out some awful source that doesn't back up the "facts" you claim.

 

[HolyBaikal]

My, how AMD is absolutely dominating this generation in terms of graphics.

They don't hold a candle to Intel in terms of processors, but everyone is going to AMD for their graphics. Good show AMD, good show.

If that's the graphics card they're using, that's quite impressive. It's too bad you can't use it for much other than the PlayStation 4 exclusive games.

 

[i-Lo]

The biggest point of contention following the GPU is the RAM. Most of speculate it's going to be UMA GDDR5 with the amount of either 2GB (a given) or 4GB (which third parties are somewhat vehemently requesting). The true question remains, how much "effective" RAM is going to be left after the OS is installed?

Now I have read that there may be a 16GB embedded flash memory on PS4. I remember being told that the total OS can't be totally offloaded on to the flash memory. However, can't applications that can only be used outside a gaming environment be offloaded there? As in during gameplay a skeleton OS remains (in its truest essence) with relevant core functionalities all the time. I can't imagine the RAM consumption going past 120-150MB at launch esp. if they don't bundle all apps as a part of the RAM consuming OS.

Any speculation in that regard?

 

[z0m3le]

You aren't a troll, just somebody that constantly posts incorrect information and when called out on it, you pull out some awful source that doesn't back up the "facts" you claim.

I left the source there, I also I do accept that I was wrong. I'm sorry I'm not a financial analyst, it was the only site I could find for short term debt and like I said that sort of stuff should be far easier to find.

So I have to ask, do you feel "big" now?

 

[bgassassin]

The biggest point of contention following the GPU is the RAM. Most of speculate it's going to be UMA GDDR5 with the amount of either 2GB (a given) or 4GB (which third parties are somewhat vehemently requesting). The true question remains, how much "effective" RAM is going to be left after the OS is installed?

Now I have read that there may be a 16GB embedded flash memory on PS4. I remember being told that the total OS can't be totally offloaded on to the flash memory. However, can't applications that can only be used outside a gaming environment be offloaded there? As in during gameplay a skeleton OS remains (in its truest essence) with relevant core functionalities all the time. I can't imagine the RAM consumption going past 120-150MB at launch esp. if they don't bundle all apps as a part of the RAM consuming OS.

Any speculation in that regard?

It would be as slow as a constipated colon. Both from bandwidth and latency from what I remember.

 

[USC-fan]

The biggest point of contention following the GPU is the RAM. Most of speculate it's going to be UMA GDDR5 with the amount of either 2GB (a given) or 4GB (which third parties are somewhat vehemently requesting). The true question remains, how much "effective" RAM is going to be left after the OS is installed?

Now I have read that there may be a 16GB embedded flash memory on PS4. I remember being told that the total OS can't be totally offloaded on to the flash memory. However, can't applications that can only be used outside a gaming environment be offloaded there? As in during gameplay a skeleton OS remains (in its truest essence) with relevant core functionalities all the time. I can't imagine the RAM consumption going past 120-150MB at launch esp. if they don't bundle all apps as a part of the RAM consuming OS.

Any speculation in that regard?

Ps3 uses 50mb. I don't think they will use much more than that. Is is not "installed" in ram.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I left the source there, I also I do accept that I was wrong. I'm sorry I'm not a financial analyst, it was the only site I could find for short term debt and like I said that sort of stuff should be far easier to find.

There is a site. It's called Sony Investor Relations.

Excluding financial services, where Sony hold ¥1.76 trillion in customer bank deposits which are classified as current liabilities, Sony have:

¥2.77 trillion in current assets, including cash and cash equivalents, accounts receivable and other current assets.
¥2.58 trillion in current liabilities, including short term borrowings, current portion of long term debt, accounts payable, and other current liabilities.
¥0.75 trillion in long term debt, excluding the current portion

You don't need to be a financial analyst to read a balance sheet.

 

[neobiz]

http://i.imgur.com/Ey4AG.jpg

With the coupons and rebate it's ~$620 and you could go with 4GB of ram to get it @ the $600. Oh and it also comes with 3 free games.

The GPU is 3154GFLOPs and the CPU is a quad core @ 3.6GHz but it does turbo to 3.8 and is unlocked if you want to get it to 4GHz. Pretty sure this PC will run those games just fine.



Just something I said in the Wii U thread, in 2013 you could buy this PC or one comparable to it for probably under $500.

Am I not seeing an OS on there? Gonna run Linux? Good luck running those free games.

 

[z0m3le]

There is a site. It's called Sony Investor Relations.

Excluding financial services, where Sony hold ¥1.76 trillion in customer bank deposits which are classified as current liabilities, Sony have:

¥2.77 trillion in current assets, including cash and cash equivalents, accounts receivable and other current assets.
¥2.58 trillion in current liabilities, including short term borrowings, current portion of long term debt, accounts payable, and other current liabilities.
¥0.75 trillion in long term debt, excluding the current portion

You don't need to be a financial analyst to read a balance sheet.

Again, it was already resolved.

Am I not seeing an OS on there? Gonna run Linux? Good luck running those free games.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39513046&postcount=2399

 

[bgassassin]

Ps3 uses 50mb. I don't think they will use much more than that. Is is not "installed" in ram.

No way. PS3 at launch was 120MB. PS4 should easily be larger than 120MB in the beginning.

 

[Cade]

I very much doubt Lucasarts would be developing it if they couldn't run it on next-gen systems, they themselves didn't release either of the Force Unleashed games on PC which were like their two main titles this gen.

What? Both games are on PC.

 

[CorrisD]

No way. PS3 at launch was 120MB. PS4 should easily be larger than 120MB in the beginning.

What is the Vita memory usage like do we know?
Unlike say the 360 or PS3, the full OS is loaded at all times, it has to be like 100MB or something at least taken up for each of the seperate apps it allows to be used in conjunction with a game.

What? Both games are on PC.

Like I said, they themselves didn't develop FU1/2 for PC, the first and second were outsourced and as such the first didn't come out for the PC for like a year.

 

[RoboPlato]

What is the Vita memory usage like do we know?
Unlike say the 360 or PS3, the full OS is loaded at all times, it has to be like 100MB or something at least taken up for each of the seperate apps it allows to be used in conjunction with a game.

I could be wrong but I've heard 256Mb.

 

[CLEEK]

Doesn't the Vita have half of its 512MB reserved for the OS?

I've read that a bunch of times, but never seen sources to verify it. 258MB footprint for the OS has always seemed very excessive, but LiveArea is far more responsive than either XMB or the Xbox dash, so it could be true.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

It would be as slow as a constipated colon. Both from bandwidth and latency from what I remember.

what would be slow? The 16gb of flash memory? I thought its supposed to be fast...

Ps3 uses 50mb. I don't think they will use much more than that. Is is not "installed" in ram.

Oh it most certainly will. Probably around 256mb of RAM.

Doesn't the Vita have half of its 512MB reserved for the OS?

I've read that a bunch of times, but never seen sources to verify it. 258MB footprint for the OS has always seemed very excessive, but LiveArea is far more responsive than either XMB or the Xbox dash, so it could be true.

Theres rumors that state that, and a document that isn't very clear. Vita also has an additional 128mb of video memory, so 640mb total.

 

[USC-fan]

No way. PS3 at launch was 120MB. PS4 should easily be larger than 120MB in the beginning.

I would not say easily. I don't think there will throw away the improvements in the os. Really we are just taking about when a game launch the reserved ram.

But given likely 4GB it is a very small amount in any case.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

I would not say easily. I don't think there will throw away the improvements in the os. Really we are just taking about when a game launch the reserved ram.

But given likely 4GB it is a very small amount in any case.

How so? PS4's OS is likely to be entirely different(so there is no improvements) and much more advanced and have a lot more features while at the same time offering much more performance(in line with Vita). I doubt they'll stick with the XMB.

The 360 OS from what I know of it, seems reasonably responsive and relatively fully featured, and apparently runs on 32MB or RAM.

True I dont know what they did wrong with the PS3's OS in comparison. Things seems to be loaded in differently(looking at friends trophies for example or pulling up there profile on the friends list. Also the way you scroll through things in the background by hitting the PS button is a bit different no? 360 doesnt let you scroll through its whole OS does it? I havent booted up my 360 in a long time.

regardless I dont think its far fetched to expect PS4's OS, something that will undoubtedly be much more advanced to use 256mb of ram.

 

[shinra-bansho]

The 360 OS from what I know of it, seems reasonably responsive and relatively fully featured, and apparently runs on 32MB or RAM.

 

[bgassassin]

What is the Vita memory usage like do we know?
Unlike say the 360 or PS3, the full OS is loaded at all times, it has to be like 100MB or something at least taken up for each of the seperate apps it allows to be used in conjunction with a game.

My understanding is the same as the others that posted after you. Sony did a good job of keeping that under wraps.

what would be slow? The 16gb of flash memory? I thought its supposed to be fast...

For the scenario being posed it's not fast enough. He's suggesting that to free up the system memory to move the OS system processes from the system memory to the flash memory. Imagine all the processes on your computer running from the harddrive or SSD instead of the system memory. It would defeat the purpose of having system memory.

I would not say easily. I don't think there will throw away the improvements in the os. Really we are just taking about when a game launch the reserved ram.

But given likely 4GB it is a very small amount in any case.

They're going to be doing a lot more on PS4 than PS3 and in turn it will need more memory.

 

[USC-fan]

How so? PS4's OS is likely to be entirely different(so there is no improvements) and much more advanced and have a lot more features while at the same time offering much more performance(in line with Vita). I doubt they'll stick with the XMB.

Ps3 is 50mb, x360 is 32mb.

Not sure what features you would want to add to triple the ram usage. Like bg point that ps3 started with a lot more reserved. It could be the same way with ps4 because you can always give more ram than take it away.

Psvita is a tablet like device. It needs to switch apps unlike a console. While playing a game on ps4 you wouldn't check twitter on your TV like vita.

My understanding is the same as the others that posted after you. Sony did a good job of keeping that under wraps.

Uncharted Vita use over 400mb of system ram so it cannot use more than 90mb.

 

[Giant Panda]

The OS will definitely start off around 256 MB, just like Vita. PS4 is going to have to compete in non-gaming features with Durango, Apple, Google, etc, the OS needs to be able to do a lot and stay responsive.

 

[KageMaru]

I would not say easily. I don't think there will throw away the improvements in the os. Really we are just taking about when a game launch the reserved ram.

But given likely 4GB it is a very small amount in any case.

After the PSP, PS3, and now the PSV, what reason do you think the OS footprint of the PS4 will be small? There is no logical reason to assume this.

You also have to keep it in mind that Sony will be chasing the same multimedia features that MS, Apple, and Google are chasing.

We'll be lucky if the OS in these systems take less than 200MB IMO.

Edit:

Also why is everyone assuming the PS3 OS takes 50MB?

 

[i-Lo]

For the scenario being posed it's not fast enough. He's suggesting that to free up the system memory to move the OS system processes from the system memory to the flash memory. Imagine all the processes on your computer running from the harddrive or SSD instead of the system memory. It would defeat the purpose of having system memory.

I think I should have been clearer. What I meant is how programs currently run on computers. Unless accessed the program resides only on HDD. Once it is, parts of the program relevant to its operation are loaded onto the system's RAM. I wonder if the same thing can be done with PS4 (or if the PS3 currently operates this way) with greater efficiency since iirc PSV does not have any other storage beside optional (well not really if you want to play games) proprietary storage meaning all the functionality is ON the system memory ALL the time (isn't it).

Also, how optimistic do you feel about Sony budging from that 2GB limit up to 4GB GDDR5?

Also why is everyone assuming the PS3 OS takes 50MB?

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=17775

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

For the scenario being posed it's not fast enough. He's suggesting that to free up the system memory to move the OS system processes from the system memory to the flash memory. Imagine all the processes on your computer running from the harddrive or SSD instead of the system memory. It would defeat the purpose of having system memory.

Is it possible they could integrate another portion of the RAM specifically for the OS with PS4, on the SOC? Like a 2nd or 3rd pool of memory. A small amount like 128 to 256mb.

Another thought on Vita's memory. There is a real good chance that Vita's OS does take up 256mb. The slide in the developer powerpoint suggests this, though it isnt very clear. Besides the fact that some have said its very snappy and runs a lot of apps in the background, another reason is the Vita doesnt really need more than 384mb of total memory right now when it runs games at almost half the resolution as PS3. At some point a few years from now I could see it needing more and they may be able to optimize it significantly. Right now I dont know if theres any reason to, and it better they keep that cushion as they road map what they want to do with the OS feature wise. Remember PS3 didnt get cross game chat because they had already given that memory back to developers.

Also why is everyone assuming the PS3 OS takes 50MB?

The last report in early 2010 confirmed that the OS was reduced to 50mb. Its possible its been reduced further by now but we have no such info.