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[EchoChamber]

My books never lie oceania is a continent!!!!!

 

[xxracerxx]

It's good to see a company use actual women for these events (even though they really don't have to have models at all) and not Victoria Secret type women in skimpy outfits like booth babes.

 

[ascii42]

I know. But PC games are. And porting from PS4 to Xb1 should not be big hurdle this gen, especially if your are talking about smaller games.

This is not the Ps2 era, where you have to support the emotion engine. Xb1 might be less powerfull, but If I was running a third party developer, I would make sure that my game runs on all platforms. Publishing just on only one platform is not the same as it was with the ps2.

Yeah. I'd guess the majority of non-moneyhatted 3rd party exclusives are from Japan.

 

[SwiftDeath]

It's good to see a company use actual women for these events (even though they really don't have to have models at all) and not Victoria Secret type women in skimpy outfits like booth babes.

You do realize others have suggested that one of the women was in essence used to be part of the prize package for the first person in line?

It's not really a win for women in my book

 

[TAJ]

It's good to see a company use actual women for these events (even though they really don't have to have models at all) and not Victoria Secret type women in skimpy outfits like booth babes.

I'm sure this sounded better in your head, lol.

 

[Skeff]

I know. But PC games are. And porting from PS4 to Xb1 should not be big hurdle this gen, especially if your are talking about smaller games.

This is not the Ps2 era, where you have to support the emotion engine. Xb1 might be less powerfull, but If I was running a third party developer, I would make sure that my game runs on all platforms. Publishing just on only one platform is not the same as it was with the ps2.

No, you have to support the esram... and PS2 era had exclusives like Final fantasy and GTA, not exactly in the same league I'm talking about here is it?

Porting is actually more of an issue for mid tier games, The massive games have huge budgets where the cost of porting is easier to absorb. As far as indie games, well depending on how kind MS/Sony are then maybe you could port it easily on Unity, if your using Unity of course. If your using Unity and you don't meet the ID@Xbox criteria, then it'll be costly. Not to mention all of the additional costs that have nothing to do with programming.

 

[LiquidSolid]

No, PS4 isn't DirectX....It's OpenGL based.

SMH. Why is this misinformation still spread? No:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/video/pcw/docs/617/112/p22.pdf
http://develop.scee.net/files/presentations/gceurope2013/ParisGC2013Final.pdf

 

[Raist]

I'm actually surprised the gap isn't wider.

But overall, I think we're gonna look at a 2:1 ratio WW by the end of Q1. At least.

 

[oconnomiyaki]

FIFA? no, PES? maybe, estimates are that the last PES sold around 250k on 360 on an install base of 80 million.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here. PES isn't popular. You even say yourself it doesn't sell. Gone are the glory days of the PS2 era; it's long been considered inferior to FIFA. The series is kept on life support by Asia. So for the large number of people, it doesn't really matter.

The only reason you might care is if you are staunchly anti-EA. Again, these are message board concerns, not concerns of the wider audience. I don't think Microsoft is lying awake at night saying "We might lose Pro Evolution Soccer!"

So yeah, maybe PES won't come to Xbox. But I'd be surprised if Konami even brings it to PS4 in the future the way the series performs.

Also not too sure about what this has to do with Direct X, but okay.

 

[Brazil]

There's pictures of her modelling with other girls at the event. They were handing out strudel.

That's... Huh.

 

[Skeff]

SMH. Why is this misinformation still spread? No:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/video/pcw/docs/617/112/p22.pdf
http://develop.scee.net/files/presentations/gceurope2013/ParisGC2013Final.pdf

Errm those PDF's say it uses DirectX and OpenGL and OpenCL...

So porting from PS4 to XB1 would require changing from GNM/GNMX. If the majority of the code was written in GNMX it would not cause too much of a problem as that is reasonably similar to DirectX, However GNM is much lower level as shown from your second pdf see page 32 for the GNM description:

Low level Graphics API (GNM)
–
Builds directly command buffers to feed to the GPU
–
Resembles DirectX and OpenGL without sacrificing efficiency

The Wrapper However is more similar to D3D11, a Description from the team behind porting the Crew can be found here:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-crew-was-ported-to-playstation-4

Porting to PS4 is easier than porting from PS4 as you can port to GNMX and the optimize with GNM whatever is necessary, however going from GNM code to another system would be much more difficult.

Honestly I think the xb1 = directx and ps4 = openGL sticks around because it's easier than delving into GNM, GNMX, D3D11.X.

It becomes even easier when Microsoft Issue statements such as:

Other graphics APIs such as OpenGL and AMD’s Mantle are not available on Xbox One.

Which makes an explanation a little easier for the less technically inclined.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here. PES isn't popular. You even say yourself it doesn't sell. Gone are the glory days of the PS2 era; it's long been considered inferior to FIFA. The series is kept on life support by Asia. So for the large number of people, it doesn't really matter.

The only reason you might care is if you are staunchly anti-EA. Again, these are message board concerns, not concerns of the wider audience. I don't think Microsoft is lying awake at night saying "We might lose Pro Evolution Soccer!"

So yeah, maybe PES won't come to Xbox. But I'd be surprised if Konami even brings it to PS4 in the future the way the series performs.

Also not too sure about what this has to do with Direct X, but okay.

My point is clear, mid tier games may not be ported to XB1 if there is a substantial sales gap. As to whether or not you care about mid-tier games is personal preference, though it seems the ~250k who bought it might care. Also PES has been confirmed for PS4 this year via Twitter.

 

[oconnomiyaki]

My point is clear, mid tier games may not be ported to XB1 if there is a substantial sales gap. As to whether or not you care about mid-tier games is personal preference, though it seems the ~250k who bought it might care. Also PES has been confirmed for PS4 this year via Twitter.

Okay. I just don't think it matters at all, not even for those 250k fans, really. There's no way any publisher is going to give a green light to franchises that can only pull that in. As many have said, the days of the PS2 were you had lots of B-tier games using middleware is over. It'll be AAA mainstream on one end and indie games on the other.

But good for PES, I guess. As I said, I doubt it will come to One because it's not really popular outside of Asia and the One has zero presence there. I'd expect the same decision even if the Xbox One was outselling the PS4 3:1. It's just not a good example (and one that seems picked on your own tastes?).

 

[Skeff]

Okay. I just don't think it matters at all, not even for those 250k fans, really. There's no way any publisher is going to give a green light to franchises that can only pull that in. As many have said, the days of the PS2 were you had lots of B-tier games using middleware is over. It'll be AAA mainstream on one end and indie games on the other.

But good for PES, I guess. As I said, I doubt it will come to One because it's not really popular outside of Asia and the One has zero presence there. I'd expect the same decision even if the Xbox One was outselling the PS4 3:1. It's just not a good example (and one that seems picked on your own tastes?).

No, I prefer FIFA, the only reason I used PES is because the topic of ports came up in this thread and I had just written a post in the PES thread regarding the same issue, so copied that post in.

Also the 250k were the 360 purchases, it sold over a million on PS3 I believe, due to obvious reasons. We're kind of going off on a tangent right now though, so let's go back OT.

damn Germany, wonder what sales we would have seen with a fully stocked PS4, is the thirst over in germany as strong as the UK, does DeutschGAF think they would have hit 530k with more stock?

 

[Melchiah]

I'm pretty sure they'll never need to worry about that. It should be sufficiently easy/cheap to port from Xbone to PS4 (/vice versa), so even in the extremely unlikely case of say a 4:1 sales ratio I do think Xbone will get pretty much everything the PS4 gets (minus the Sony first/second party exclusives obviously). The issue for Microsoft is that this won't help them. Playstation has the better brand, the more powerful hardware and it's cheaper.
Microsoft needs to find sth. Kinect related that makes people buy tons of consoles.

They'll probably get the same games, but it'll be harder and more expensive to get exclusive 3rd party content for XB1, and they can't turn the tide with their 1st party studios alone. I'm personally happy if all major 3rd party titles will be multiplatform, as then you can play all the content you desire on one platform, just like in the PS1/2 days.

 

[RELIGHT]

This seems significant. Is this significant?

 

[LiquidSolid]

Errm those PDF's say it uses DirectX and OpenGL and OpenCL...

So porting from PS4 to XB1 would require changing from GNM/GNMX. If the majority of the code was written in GNMX it would not cause too much of a problem as that is reasonably similar to DirectX, However GNM is much lower level as shown from your second pdf see page 32 for the GNM description:



The Wrapper However is more similar to D3D11, a Description from the team behind porting the Crew can be found here:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-crew-was-ported-to-playstation-4

Porting to PS4 is easier than porting from PS4 as you can port to GNMX and the optimize with GNM whatever is necessary, however going from GNM code to another system would be much more difficult.

Honestly I think the xb1 = directx and ps4 = openGL sticks around because it's easier than delving into GNM, GNMX, D3D11.X.

It becomes even easier when Microsoft Issue statements such as:



Which makes an explanation a little easier for the less technically inclined.

What are you talking about? GNMX (the Wrapper API) is a high level API that was designed to resemble (not "use" or "based on") both DirectX and OpenGL as a way to ease developers into console development (something you'll see a lot of indies use). GNM is a low level API that far surpasses them both in terms of complexity and performance, the closest comparison is Mantle (though GNM should still be superior). OpenCL is only ever referred to in comparison to their Compute functionality.

This seems significant. Is this significant?

Well Microsoft's goal was to get a 40% share of the German market and right now they've got less than 20% (PS4 250k, WiiU 192k and Xbone 100k) and that's only going to shrink once Sony ships more PS4s in. So yeah, I'd say it's significant.

 

[justjohn]

Are we sure the woman in question isn't just his girlfriend?

Hahahahah

 

[Jack cw]

No surprise really. Its still impossible to find a PS4 in store here, while Xbones are available everywhere but arent selling. That gap gets even wider in next few months. Gut gemacht, Sony!

 

[zhao3gold]

Now the question is due to Wii U is tanked in EU, will Xbox One has any chance to broaden its market share in some key European countries, like UK/DE/FR/ES? Or all this market share will go to PS4 eventually?

I think from now on, Sony and Microsoft will be the only 2 players in EU, while Xbox One is far behind PS4.

Microsoft EU headquarter needs to do their best to convince EU gamers to accept Xbox One.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Now the question is due to Wii U is tanked in EU, will Xbox One has any chance to broaden its market share in some key European countries, like UK/DE/FR/ES? Or all this market share will go to PS4 eventually?

I think from now on, Sony and Microsoft will be the only 2 players in EU, while Xbox One is far behind PS4.

Microsoft EU headquarter needs to do their best to convince EU gamers to accept Xbox One.

The lost Nintendo market share will go to Sony. Of course some of it will be lost since the casuals are gone.

 

[FeiRR]

I don't know if it's thread worthy but I was just looking for something else when I saw an ad for PS4 being available at Komputronik, a large electronics retail chain in Poland.

http://playstation.strefamarek.allegro.pl/konsola-sony-playstation-4-z-dyskiem-500gb.html

The console is not sold through their site but through a renowned auction portal (I think you can buy there without registering). Komputronik is an authorized Sony partner here and generally a trustworthy retailer. I bought tons of things from them. They have hundreds of shops everywhere in Poland.

1799 PLN is approx. €435. I paid exactly the same on launch day for mine. Their website says they ship abroad if:
- you have a company address
- pay by a card or transfer upfront
- shipment takes approx. 4 days
- they ship with DHL, shipping rates here (you can also check local DHL website).

Only 40 left so hurry up if you want one. When I started typing this, there were 45 consoles in stock. They sell not more than 2 to one person.

 

[dark10x]

Yeah I remember that dance they made..

Oh shit, it's the capoeira maestre!

 

[Jack cw]

Now the question is due to Wii U is tanked in EU, will Xbox One has any chance to broaden its market share in some key European countries, like UK/DE/FR/ES? Or all this market share will go to PS4 eventually?

I think from now on, Sony and Microsoft will be the only 2 players in EU, while Xbox One is far behind PS4.

Microsoft EU headquarter needs to do their best to convince EU gamers to accept Xbox One.

Not that easy, its actually a nearly impossible task. Brand recognition is something you cant just achieve or alter in peoples minds in a few months. The 360 had best conditions to conquer Europe but even with a 1 year headstart, a great price, fantastic libary, great online, and the best controller ever they couldnt increase their marketshare that dramatic. Actually they were outsold by PS3 and Wii at a huge margin.

Maybe its the bad reputation Microsoft has with Windows, or because its American, but this generation is not for them to gain more market but to defend what they had with 360. All those people that wont buy a WiiU are not neccessarily jumping to a 499 EURO Xbone, with that surveillance camera. It appears that many of those who abandoned PS2 for 360 are going with the PS4 this time. Microsoft build the xbone very US centric and forgot, that Europe is probably the most price sensitive region and care about their legal rights.

 

[Killroyskbg]

Japan is lucky they got a plant for producing them. No need for large bulks to be made to fill containers in order to keep shipping costs down just straight from the factory to retailers. Or perhaps they don´t want to saturate the market and keep it hard to get even over there.

 

[Baki]

Now the question is due to Wii U is tanked in EU, will Xbox One has any chance to broaden its market share in some key European countries, like UK/DE/FR/ES? Or all this market share will go to PS4 eventually?

I think from now on, Sony and Microsoft will be the only 2 players in EU, while Xbox One is far behind PS4.

Microsoft EU headquarter needs to do their best to convince EU gamers to accept Xbox One.

Why would the lost Nintendo market share go to Mucrosoft. They both target different demographics. Microsoft and Sony compete for the same demographic. So IF the lost market share is going anywhere, it would go to Sony.

 

[Raist]

Now the question is due to Wii U is tanked in EU, will Xbox One has any chance to broaden its market share in some key European countries, like UK/DE/FR/ES? Or all this market share will go to PS4 eventually?

In continental europe the ratio last gen was 2~3:1 in favour of the PS3 on average and that was with worse conditions for Sony (1.5 years LTTP and much higher price). I really don't see MS expanding from this with the XB1. They had a slight lead in the UK overall, but everything so far indicates that this might not happen again.

They might sell more units LTD if the market expands a bit but that really depends on their performance against Sony. They're gonna have a tough one IMO.
I don't think a very significant proportion of the "alternative" market who bought a Wii for €250 is gonna jump ship to a €500 XB1. Not even to a €400 PS4, mind.

 

[SMOK3Y]

This is kind of mind blowing.

Here in Brazil it's widely accepted that Oceania is the continent, as described by Jules d'Urville. That's how we're taught in schools down here. Or at least how I was taught all those years ago.

I'm browsing through related articles on Wikipedia right now... And it seems that there really is a distinction (English version, Portuguese version). This is off-topic as hell, but, huh. I wonder if it's a recent change and younger folks are being taught differently from how I was, or if it's a matter of regional differences in terms of what's accepted in the academic geography circle.

im 41 & I was taught Australia is a Country & an Island Continent & and its part of Oceania lol and I live here

 

[samurai1226]

No surprise here, in germany the ps was always way ahead of the xbox.

i know a lot of people who prefer playstation, but dont buy exclusive titles at all... -.-

 

[Jack cw]

i know a lot of people who prefer playstation, but dont buy exclusive titles at all... -.-

Its just something many peaople dont recognize. Exclusives help driving some sales, but those real system sellers are CoD, FIFA, AC and GTA and 3 of those were available at launch and are the most played and sold titles on PS4.

 

[zhao3gold]

Not that easy, its actually a nearly impossible task. Brand recognition is something you cant just achieve or alter in peoples minds in a few months. The 360 had best conditions to conquer Europe but even with a 1 year headstart, a great price, fantastic libary, great online, and the best controller ever they couldnt increase their marketshare that dramatic. Actually they were outsold by PS3 and Wii at a huge margin.

Maybe its the bad reputation Microsoft has with Windows, or because its American, but this generation is not for them to gain more market but to defend what they had with 360. All those people that wont buy a WiiU are not neccessarily jumping to a 499 EURO Xbone, with that surveillance camera. It appears that many of those who abandoned PS2 for 360 are going with the PS4 this time. Microsoft build the xbone very US centric and forgot, that Europe is probably the most price sensitive region and care about their legal rights.

I fully agree with you. It is a kind of mission impossible for Microsoft.

Most of EU market sizes are very tiny and it will only allow one console to survive in the market. After the domination of PS1/PS2 era, the Playstation brand was really huge in EU. I remembered OG Xbox was only sold around 6 millions in EU and 2 millions of them were from UK. So only 4 millions were sold in the entire mainland EU markets. Xbox was not recognized by most of EU gamers.

In fact, Microsoft did a great job (in my opinion) to broaden Xbox 360 sales in EU by the factors of headstart, price and games. And the total sales of Xbox 360 in EU would already surpassed 20millions. Although it is far behind PS3, it was still a huge growth for Xbox brands.

However, now Microsoft buried those achievements made through Xbox 360. A US centric machine, less power, higher price with still less brand recognition will make Xbox One in a terrible situation in EU.

 

[FranXico]

This is kind of mind blowing.

Here in Brazil it's widely accepted that Oceania is the continent, as described by Jules d'Urville. That's how we're taught in schools down here. Or at least how I was taught all those years ago.

I'm browsing through related articles on Wikipedia right now... And it seems that there really is a distinction (English version, Portuguese version). This is off-topic as hell, but, huh. I wonder if it's a recent change and younger folks are being taught differently from how I was, or if it's a matter of regional differences in terms of what's accepted in the academic geography circle.

Same for me (Portugal).

There seems to be a distinction in convention indeed.

I stand corrected, fellow GAFfers.

 

[Jack cw]

However, now Microsoft buried those achievements made through Xbox 360. A US centric machine, less power, higher price with still less brand recognition will make Xbox One in a terrible situation in EU.

Well to be honest there are more things to consider than just bad decisions by MFST. The 33% failure rate at the begining of the 360 era was something that made many Europeans cautious and lets not forget that online was behind a paywall and had no real value for the money.

 

[spwolf]

Okay. I just don't think it matters at all, not even for those 250k fans, really. There's no way any publisher is going to give a green light to franchises that can only pull that in. As many have said, the days of the PS2 were you had lots of B-tier games using middleware is over. It'll be AAA mainstream on one end and indie games on the other.

But good for PES, I guess. As I said, I doubt it will come to One because it's not really popular outside of Asia and the One has zero presence there. I'd expect the same decision even if the Xbox One was outselling the PS4 3:1. It's just not a good example (and one that seems picked on your own tastes?).

stop with the misinformation nonsense. Last PES sold 6-7 million (yearly) and it sells the best in Europe and South America not Asia. Asian sales of PES are small.

 

[Moonstone]

Don't want to spoil the party, but is the source trustworthy?

Die Verkaufszahlen von PS4 und Xbox One für Deutschland waren bisher ein gehütetes Geheimnis. Nun wurden die Zahlen für den deutschen Markt preisgegeben und Sony hat auch hier die Nase vorn. Seit Verkaufsstart der PS4 am 29. November bis Ende Dezember 2013 wurden in Deutschland 250.000 PS4-Konsolen verkauft. Die Xbox One erschien hierzulande am 22. November und wurde bisher 100.000 Mal verkauft. Die Zahlen stammen vom Marktforschungsunternehmen Media Control GfK.

This sounds strange. As if there was an event where media control GfK revealed the numbers. They usually never publish numbers and you can check their site, there is no news like that. Other sites haven't picked this up. If this is legit than it should be found on mediabiz.de, but it's not. Only that site has the news.

And if this was some exclusive information that only that site got, they would handled it differently. It's probably made up.

 

[TheZjman]

That's quite a gap. Just due to less hype i guess? Supply certainly can't be an issue for XB1.

Shame, I am loving my XB1 at the minute. Especially the voice commands.

 

[Jack cw]

Don't want to spoil the party, but is the source trustworthy?

This sounds strange. As if there was an event where media control GfK revealed the numbers. They usually never publish numbers and you can check their site, there is no news like that. Other sites haven't this picked up. If this is legit than this news should be found on mediabiz.de

And if this was some exclusive information that only that site got, they would handle this as tiny news.

GfK doesnt give away any data for free or public. If those numbers are from media control and GfK than their accurate. Regardless of the source, the ratio is about what you can expect if you listen to retail in Germany.

 

[Moonstone]

GfK doesnt give away any data for free or public.

That's what I'm saying. Numbers are usually revealed by Sony, MS or Nintendo. But there is no source for that given.

 

[Jack cw]

That's what I'm saying. Numbers are usually revealed by Sony, MS or Nintendo. But there is no source for that given.

Not really. Any media relvenat orginazition can aquire the sales data but they cost as far as I know, and they arent cheap.

 

[Moonstone]

I know what GfK does and how they work

But the site isn't offering the information where they got this from. They are claiming that GfK revealed this data. To whom? To them exclusivly? That all does sound more than suspicious to me.

 

[Jack cw]

I know what GfK does and how they work

But the site isn't offering the information where they got this from. They are claiming that GfK revealed this data. To whom? To them exclusivly? That all does sound more than suspicious to me.

They dont have to. They wrote GfK/mediacontrol. If they just pulled the numbers out of their ass they will soon put that article offline. As I said, even if they guessed, they're not too far off.

 

[SaucyJack]

Have we determined the status of Australia yet?

I'm just amazed that it's been done to death without anyone picking up on the fact that an early poster referred to it as the only part of Europe where Xbone was doing better!

 

[wiggleb0t]

So is Australia still the only country Xbox One is beating PS4 currently?

On ps4 launch day my local target received 6 ps4 units.. They could'nt even meet preorder demands.....They & other big retailers didn't even advertise them via junk mail prior to xmas etc due to no stock... So the xbone 'winning' here is far from the truth.

 

[ethomaz]

Wait the discussion is about if GFK is trustworthy in Germany now?

If I remember the trackers reveal the sales to impress at the end of the year... and to be fair I expect PS4 to have a bigger GAP in Germany.... dat supply issues.

 

[Jack cw]

Wait the discussion is about if GFK is trustworthy in Germany now?

More like how such a rather unknown site are the only ones who can provide these numbers while other, better known media cant. And yes, I really doubt 100k xbones were sold in Germany - 50k max. Same goes for PS4 - 150 - 180k.

 

[Melchiah]

Its just something many peaople dont recognize. Exclusives help driving some sales, but those real system sellers are CoD, FIFA, AC and GTA and 3 of those were available at launch and are the most played and sold titles on PS4.

Killzone: Shadow Fall was actually the best-selling title, with 1 million sold copies.

 

[Jack cw]

Killzone: Shadow Fall was actually the best-selling title, with 1 million sold copies.

How many were bundled? Its a great acheivement but I think FIFA and CoD sold more on PS4. That just proves what I said. Exclusive drive the sales at the begining but as soon as those other big guns are in the race, the consoles start flying of the shelves (ok, not on WiiU).

 

[whiteape]

I didnt know that the PS4 is now available in stores without preorder in Germany. Have seen so many in Berlin a few minutes ago.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Came in for a talk on numbers..leaving with an education on Australia.

 

[murgo]

I didnt know that the PS4 is now available in stores without preorder in Germany. Have seen so many in Berlin a few minutes ago.

Pics or it didn't happen

 

[Melchiah]

How many were bundled? Its a great acheivement but I think FIFA and CoD sold more on PS4. That just proves what I said. Exclusive drive the sales at the begining but as soon as those other big guns are in the race, the consoles start flying of the shelves (ok, not on WiiU).

Considering the largest PS4 userbase is at the moment in the US, where the game wasn't bundled, and that the bundle was introduced in Scandinavia less than a month before the launch (changing your existing pre-order to the bundle would have meant a loss of your place in the line), I'd say its actual sales were quite high.

Killzone: Shadow Fall beats Call Of Duty and FIFA during PS4 launch
http://metro.co.uk/2013/12/02/killz...l-of-duty-and-fifa-during-ps4-launch-4209919/