mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
What fixed cost? If they remodel the console, the cost wouldn't be fixed. There's a whole generation of people that will ONLY buy a console if it's under $200.
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PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)
- Thread starter OsirisBlack
- Start date
What fixed cost? If they remodel the console, the cost wouldn't be fixed. There's a whole generation of people that will ONLY buy a console if it's under $200.
Too keep way the retail space and orders from the NX, of course.
My guess would be that that changes from Dev to Dev.
That's an interesting question. I suspect the answer will be tied to the success or at least potential this initial 'test' demonstrates.
Let's assume it is successful. The move to x64 and GPU processor families that are closely tied to PC GPU's offers some interesting possibilities. What I could foresee is something similar to how PC and phone games work. It's a sliding scale of compatibility through time.
The nature of the architecture means reverse compatibility is possible for as long as the architectures are evolutionary, and the OS / API's do not change dramatically. Eventually you may reach a point where it's no longer worth it to keep the baggage around, but usually that's over many generations ... and by then the hardware delta is sufficiently powerful that emulation may be possible.
The bigger question here would be forward compatibility. Let's assume that we see something like a 3 year span between hardware releases continuing. As long as they keep forward comparability for one generation (ie. PS4K and PS4 ... then PS5 and PS4K ... etc), you're guaranteed games for 6 years on any given console.
So fundamentally a console would last as long as at always has, but with the ability of a user to get better graphics along the way. And unlike with phones and PC's, developers will only ever be targeting two locked hardware skus for a given title build ... unlike the myriad configurations the former necessitates.
Memorabilia
Member
So, 3.5 year console cycles from now on? Hmmmm...I'm mixed on how I feel about this.
PdotMichael
Banned
It's the main reason that even in the world of pc exclusive games that one still wants to sell to thelargest possible group of people.
That how Blizzard operated very successful in the past and how the most successful games on Steam operate.
potatohead
Member
One step closer to bullshot quality with ps4k.
How is that a bullshot?
Even Uncharted 4 looks as good or better than that.
Fair point, especially with Nintendo handhelds.
To be fair though those handhelds were cheaper probably.
Yea man...
Sounds short... yet also has some benefits. Weird feeling.
If they stay consistent with forward compatibility between successive hardware releases, then in reality the console cycle still remains 6-7 years in terms of game compatibility.
So while the hardware may cycle more often, you still can play games for just as long.
Xander Crews
Member
CyberPunked
Member
That's not 4K, it's just 1440p. Anything upscales to the resolution of the monitor or TV.
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One step closer to bullshot quality with ps4k.
There's nothing remotely impressive about this image.
OsirisBlack
Banned
Sony and MS are pretty good on this side with information for example we have skus (albeit temporary)as well as info for quite a few things I am sure aren't public knowledge. Most come from conferences other stuff from our convention which was in Vegas last year and even then everyone isn't privy to everything that is passed along. We're meeting with MS rep next week but I don't expect anything but a free game which I'll probably just give away and some promo stuff for their new releases. Then there is Nintendo who gives us stuff whenever they want which is generally last minute and supply constrained but they run a pretty tight ship as far as info goes.
It's arguably a step down.
But come on! WoW is a failure ... lol lost count of how many expansions it's had
WoW
TBC
WotLK
MoP
Something something had Deathwing
Something
and something else now
Counter Strike
LoL
Dota2
TF2
L4D1/2
Portal1/2
Halflife1/2
And could be longer for less demanding games like most sports and indie titles.
LizardKing
Member
I posted a thread about this a few months ago and people didn't pay much attention. I was thinking as far as Nintendo because based on their comments about retaining userbase between gens, this is what I think they are going to do and they will already be building their hardware for scalability. Didn't see Sony pre-empting the move.
ME said:
icalledit.gif just didn't see Sony doing it this soon.
platina
Member
Something that had to do with the quality of the DOF iirc.
PdotMichael
Banned
BD-drive, hard disk, all kinds of license fees etc. All the things don't get cheaper anymore.
While CPU and GPU getting faster outpaced by new chips than getting cheaper because of all kinds of production and physical limits.
Sony is basically forced to update the Playstation hardware to justify the same old price point.
dantevsninjas
Member
I think this might push me out of the console game. I like consoles as a stop gap in between PC upgrades, but if we're going to get hardware revisions mid-gen, I might as well just go full PC.
/turns on Bokeh in FO4
Notices 0 fps differences on current setup
Nah, it's doable kinda like other simple filter effects
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
There you go again, take a step back.
the_lizard
Member
Didya see how terribly Monster Hunter 4 ran on old 3DSes? If all new games that come out run like shit on my PS4 (that I've had for barely a year), I might as well be playing crappy ports of next gen games on a last gen console.
No dev will be able to achieve 4k output unless it's a super simplistic game.
useyourfist
Member
I was initially conflicted about this, mainly due to VR and PS4.5 reportedly being so close together. In addition to the gen still not feeling like it's got into its stride yet.
However the more I think about it (and the overly long ps3 gen) I think I would be willing to buy a new console every 3/4 years. Though they would have to be backwards compatible really to suit my gaming habits (backlogs due to time constraints)
However the more I think about it (and the overly long ps3 gen) I think I would be willing to buy a new console every 3/4 years. Though they would have to be backwards compatible really to suit my gaming habits (backlogs due to time constraints)
GlamFM
Banned
Don´t tell me what to do - cool?
Obliterator
Member
I am very familiar with how it works. For reasons I wont specify.
But the reason Publisher's and Console Manufacturers inform retail about unannounced product is to begin the marketing cycle. If the announcement isnt close, why would they inform retail this far in advance about specific titles. Something is not adding up here
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I know. But the TVs cannot accept 1440p signal. They can accept 4K or 1080p. Console has to upscale that 1440p render to 4K, and the current PS4 cannot to that, even for games that would be capable of rendering in 1440p internally.
The best PS4 can do is render something nicely in 1080p, and then the TV upscales it to 4K. PS4K could for some hypothetical demanding game render in 1440, upscale that to 4K and output to a TV - resulting in a better image detail than PS4 can theoretically do.
That image is using bokeh quality that's not achievable on PS4 hardware (or possibly in realtime in general). It's offline rendered using their engine. If you compare it to the trailer, which is actual realtime footage, you can tell that the bokeh doesn't look as precise. Other than that, and the supersampled AA, it's pretty faithful compared to an actual trailer footage (and it's also pretty freaking impressive compared to other games that show similar scenes).
Hexa
Member
Just do it. PLEASE!
platina
Member
It has to do with true 3d DOF. But I agree, idk if it's taxing or not, I just haven't seen the effect in any other game. It's been discussed over at B3D.
It's strange since QD is never the type of company to do downgrades though, so we'll have to wait for the next trailer. I do agree Uncharted 4 on ps4 looks better though.
This is the type of bullshot quality I was talking about:
That is the part where I think there is some funny business going on. In the beyond screenshot posted by our fellow gafer you can obviously see artifacting, shadow resolution problems, dof sample problems, model texture resolution problems, model polygon limits, etc.
...
But in those 8 K screenshots of detroit they released there is not even a hint of sub-resolution bokeh sampling problems, or shadow resolution problems, or really any thing like that. All the post processing and shadows seemed to be rendered out at sampling level and resolution level similar to that of the 8k screenshot.
I mean look at this bokeh quality:
Macro
Micro
Look at the shadow resolution and anamorphic bokeh stretching on the eye here:
Then compare that to that resolution of the skin texture (which is rather low in comparison):
It seems like the asset quality will be the same in the real game, but all the post precssing and image quality could not possibly be like those high res images.
Are you sure?
Thanks. But also damn april's fools.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Agreed, just drop it dude. Today's date should have no meaning if done in the context of this thread.
Real bokeh kills your framerate.
I'm sure it's been mentioned multiple times but if the "April Fools?" can keep rehashing that joke, I'm sure this question can be asked one more time:
How does GAF see this as significantly different from the xbox to xbox 360 timeline? In all likelihood, this will be a 2017 product launch, so about 4 years after the ps4, just like the xbox to x360 timeline. Sure, at the time the 360 was announced there was much gnashing of teeth and plenty of xbox 1.5 jokes, but in the end that transition seemed to work out well for the majority of gamers, right? What's different this time around, other than the possibility of legit hardware BC to further smooth the transition?
How does GAF see this as significantly different from the xbox to xbox 360 timeline? In all likelihood, this will be a 2017 product launch, so about 4 years after the ps4, just like the xbox to x360 timeline. Sure, at the time the 360 was announced there was much gnashing of teeth and plenty of xbox 1.5 jokes, but in the end that transition seemed to work out well for the majority of gamers, right? What's different this time around, other than the possibility of legit hardware BC to further smooth the transition?
But what is real bokeh in games?
As far as I know how it works in a camera it doesn't physically blur objects but only on camera side it does.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Compare it with the trailer. Dictator93 dissected it in a game announcement thread, and I compared it too. it looks similar, but lower precision.
I think the reason they do that is that bokeh is always in motion, changing, and you don't scrutinize it in the video, but lower precision bokeh stands out a lot in a still frame.
Agree.
Xplatformer
Member
So the only difference between a PS3 and PS4 is AA, shadows, textures, resolution and lighting?
Wait. The answer to your question isn't yes?
Animations.....i guess.
vpance
Member
To prepare for preorders after the E3 announcement?
David Ricardo
Member
You can't substract all kinds of context and say that "the lower the price point, the higher the sales". That's true if you don't have other external factors messing with your equation. If the PS4 is 250$ and PS4k is 500$, sales of the PS4 will grow. It's so cheap that many people won't care there is a better system. But if the PS4 is 300$ and PS4k is 400$, a lot of people is going to go to the PS4k. It's obviously going to cannibalize PS4 sales. It does everything the PS4 does but better. 100% more teraflops for only 33% extra $.
And I don't think PS4k is going to be "just another SKU to optimize for". For some developers it will be like that. But for others, PS4k it's going to be the target they design they games for, and the version they are going to show at shows like E3, so they will spend extra time in that version. And then, the og PS4 is going to be "just another sku to optimize for". They will lower the res, remove detail here and there, less af, less everything and there you go, here is your crappy port of a PS4k game.
I know saying this will happen day one is crazy, I would never say that. But it's going to happen, progressively. You are going to see worse and worse PS4 versions of games as time goes by.
As you say, no one thinks the existence of Xbox One has made PS4 shit. But we have seen things. We have seen games that run exactly the same in both (parity for Fifa or NFS 2013). And we have seen how, lately, developers have started putting more effort in PS4 versions of the games, that now most of them run higher res and more stable frame rate in the PS4.
Going back to the Witcher 3. Before launch, they put all of their effort in the XBO version. So it had higher frame rate at launch. Then, they focused on the PS4 version, and with the latest patch it performs better than the XBO version.
That's the difference between developers targetting your system or developers targeting other similar system. And the difference in power between PS4 and PS4k is 2.5 times that of the PS4 vs XBO. The architecture it's the same, but every hour they spend optimizing the PS4k version is one less hour they spend optimizing og PS4 version.
And I give developers a lot of credit. They spend thousands of hours working so we can have 10-20 hours of fun (or hundreds in games like BF4) but they are humans and their time isn't infinite. If they do a game for the PS4k, you can't expect them to start from the ground up to make a PS4 version. They will just use their base version and remove things until it works on the PS4. And that will never look half as good as if they developed the game targeting og PS4 from the beginning.
How about no.
https://youtu.be/AoZ76eh2ky0?t=127
26fps [37ms per frame] on a stock PS4 in that ending scene with nice ["off-line rendered"
] DOF, more than a year before game is set to be released.edit - And BTW if they change their DOF for a more simpler solution in a final game, I will probably not give a fuck. Game will look gorgeous regardless.
Obliterator
Member
Eh, they would not likely tell retail in March about a major E3 announcement. Its possible but not very common. At least not at scale.
Summer Haze
Banned
Complexity/density of environments is another one I'd add.
OsirisBlack
Banned
Announcement (and release) is not as far off as you would think that's part of my information, I'll drop it all tomorrow.
Obliterator
Member
Uh huh. I look forward to reading it.
Summer Haze
Banned
Hyped. I hope it releases this year, I'm so ready to upgrade.