Hero_of_the_Day
Member
First the thread about Die Hard, now people talking shit about Lethal Weapon. What is GAF coming to?
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Putin expels 755 US diplomats from Russia
- Thread starter Majine
- Start date
First the thread about Die Hard, now people talking shit about Lethal Weapon. What is GAF coming to?
No he's not going to war with his lover. Anyway Russia's biggest economic retaliation will most likely be against the EU.
It's just theatre.
A tense relation with the US is good for internal consumption in Russia. It fuels nationalist sentiments and boosts Vlad's popularity even more.
Next you'll be claiming that Vladimir Putin is a vain, ruthless opportunist who threw his countrymen under a bus he himself made to grow his personal wealth and power base.
America tried to reset relationship with Russia. They in turn annexed Crimea and then interfered in our elections. Completely in bad faith actions. The US owes Russia nothing really. They'll never win an vis a vis economic fight and only hope they have is some sort of proxy war. Sure they have nukes and we do too, but if it ever came there then the world is over. Short of hacking the elections of every Representative and Senator in this country to secure a majority of Rohrabacher types sensitive to their interests they have no options. The mutual distrust is palpable.
When it comes to economies though we've got the bigger gun. They can continue acting in bad faith and we'll just keep sanctioning them. Maybe at some point the Russian people who will bear the full brunt of sanctions burden will challenge their authoritarian state or Putin will realize that his billions are in play to be frozen. That's their problem though, like I said in the beginning of this post, the USA owes the Russians nothing, especially when they cannot act in good faith.
When it comes to economies though we've got the bigger gun. They can continue acting in bad faith and we'll just keep sanctioning them. Maybe at some point the Russian people who will bear the full brunt of sanctions burden will challenge their authoritarian state or Putin will realize that his billions are in play to be frozen. That's their problem though, like I said in the beginning of this post, the USA owes the Russians nothing, especially when they cannot act in good faith.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
I was responding to someone who said that russia was incapable of deescalation, I told that person that Russia had been trying for months to deescalate by not retaliating to various sanctions and trying to work towards a peace therefor the argument that Russia is incapable of deescalation is false. Then the goalposts was moved when someone else claimed that Russia by virtue of its election hacking was the first to escalate, then seeing the goalposts had been shifted I pointed out that if that's the case then we should go back to the root of the current crises, which was Ukraine. I made the point that by the U.S deciding to sanction Russia for actions that were not of its concern nor affected it in anyway, shape or form it was the one who started the tensions we face with Russia. Then someone out of left field brings up the Nazi's, now that was a touch of Gold and that is where I decided to exit the conversation. I could explain what you already know but it's not going to change your minds. I've been on too many forums over 2 decades to know that arguments never lead anywhere,
Apparently I did, I dont like to argue so whatever you convince yourself of let that be that.
So now we have gone to the idea that Russia invading another nation does not concern the United States.
So in your universe, what does it take for Russia to 'escalate' things?
To be fair did it ever end for them?
Russia and Trump definitely have no connection, that's why Russia waited until Congress hamstrung Trump's ability to mess with sanctions to finally retaliate for sanctions.
Because. No. Connection.
Shadow Puppetry
Member
Tell that to Putin since a lot of big news media are reporting it
Heritage foundation... really?
At least the last sentence is correct. This is all about U.S. interests, it's not about the people of Ukraine or Syria. It never was. Just as these sanctions are not about harming Russia or retaliation for the election meddling. It's about lucrative contracts for US businesses - America first, as they say. Making it look like it's payback first and foremost is a nice side effect - the US is quite good at hiding it's objectives in clear sight. The government must be thrilled that Russia makes for such a perfect oponent, (or that people just don't care) for obvious agendas to get by unnoticed.
http://www.politico.com/tipsheets/m...energy-large-focus-for-trump-in-poland-221184
The EU has good reason to say that as suggested above. Furthermore see:
www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1411566
Well if this was an article by fox news about some "liberal topic" I know people would jump at the headline since it is quite suggestive. After all it made it sound worse than it actually is. Neither is Putin escorting out those 755 diplomats nor are they diplomats. Most of them are going to be regular embassy staff. But yeah, unnecessary nitpicking, I agree
skullmuffins
Banned
Yes, I wonder why Russia was not retaliating to the sanctions... perhaps because Trump's people told them before the inauguration not to worry about it because the US was going to relax them?
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Russia is a kleptocracy.
It's ridiculous that you're trying to spin the behavior of the Russian government as anything but the actions of a mafia state. Because that's all it is.
We know better here, try elsewhere.
absolute truths aren't exactly a sign of quality, especially not when it concerns an international conflict that's hardly a black and white matter. Makes it sound like one of those famous information bubbles - but those only exist on the opposite site of the political spectrum, right?
FreedomFighter
Member
Putin finally caves and gets petty right back.
These sanctions are all about stopping Nordstream 2, nothing about some fairytales about election interfering. If you want election/government interference, you need go no further than the Saudi's and AIPAC (the latter of which has enough control over officials on both sides of the aisle to sign on to craziness like this). There is no real democracy when corporations and foreign governments can fund campaigns and bribe (double speak equivalent = "lobby") US officials to get their bidding done. This is so much bigger than Russia. And these sanctions are a desperate US trying to maintain control of Europe. We'll see if the EU really grews a pair and can stand up to the US over interfering in it's energy needs... Or cave. I bet they cave.
These sanctions are all about stopping Nordstream 2, nothing about some fairytales about election interfering. If you want election/government interference, you need go no further than the Saudi's and AIPAC (the latter of which has enough control over officials on both sides of the aisle to sign on to craziness like this). There is no real democracy when corporations and foreign governments can fund campaigns and bribe (double speak equivalent = "lobby") US officials to get their bidding done. This is so much bigger than Russia. And these sanctions are a desperate US trying to maintain control of Europe. We'll see if the EU really grews a pair and can stand up to the US over interfering in it's energy needs... Or cave. I bet they cave.
TheRagnCajun
Member
Putin talks about de-escalation but plays spy games in the background. He likes to test the limits of what he can get away with and when world leaders react he starts saber rattling.
Journeywalker
Member
Is it wrong that I suspect GTP of being either a citizen or agent of Russia? Who is honestly going to argue that the annexation of Crimea and the poisoning/election meddling in Ukraine ISN'T escalation?
BoogieWoogie
Banned
What do the current Russian sanctions do exactly? I'm a bit unclear on that one.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Russia has been terrorizing our diplomats for years, intimidating and basically making their lives miserable (for example- breaking into their homes, following their families when they leave the house, killing a pet). That's just the tip of the iceberg.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...580c7db5275_story.html?utm_term=.f4d7af920755
Russia is a mafia state. Putin assassinates or tortures anyone who asks too many questions or seeks justice.
Would you care to elaborate on your point?
The US has interfered with Putin's crime organization's ability to use Russia as his personal bank to rob and use the rest of the world to launder it. Putin isn't being petty, he's being a mob boss trying to protect his operation.
TheRagnCajun
Member
This is required reading for understanding what Putin is doing now and why the sanctions are hurting him so badly:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...ony-to-the-senate-judiciary-committee/534864/
Maybe the numbers include Janitors or Costumer Service people who works with those diplomats etc
BoogieWoogie
Banned
404 Not Found
TheRagnCajun
Member
Sorry, try clicking again.
Show the proof then.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Still 404.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
You're literally asking for someone here to google for you.
TheRagnCajun
Member
did you click on the link in my post, or the link in the quote of my post? I can't edit a quote.
Or try here:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...ony-to-the-senate-judiciary-committee/534864/
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
That works now. Thanks.
RipperGrim
Member
Not surprised that there are that many diplomats in Russia. Isn't a diplomats like the go to cover for spies?
Actually they haven't been able to confirm or infirm that a state actor was involved.
Stop spreading FUD.
e: the fact that RT and Sputnik were one of the few media to relay the leaks as damaging news tells you all you need to know about what they think of the leaks themselves.
Prototype Viktor
Member
Don't worry all their responsibilities are replaced by The Kushner
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
I think it speaks to the general bubble most of you have created and are happy to live in, many of my initial arguments are consistently whittled down to fit your agendas. For example, I say that Russias annexation of Crimea was not an escalation of tensions WITH the U.S, simply for the fact that Ukraine was not an ally neither was Crimea a part of the U.S. You, however, ask "Who is honestly going to argue that the annexation of Crimea and the poisoning/election meddling in Ukraine ISN'T escalation?". I never said that, what i said was that it was not an escalation of tensions WITH the US. Is every conflict in the world an escalation of tensions with the US? Ukraine was NOT a US ally, how can Russia escalate tensions with the U.S when it was fighting a completely different country unconnected in anyway to the U.S? anyone with even a passing glance of geopolitics would understand this, problem i think is that i give the general populace too much credit. If it makes you feel better then yes, Putin employs me personally.
If your position on the invasion and capture of Crimea by Russia, within the sovereign nation of Ukraine, is that "it's nobodies business". Then you are going to have fundamentally different philosophy and worldview than most of us here in regards to geopolitics and world diplomacy.
If it makes you feel worse, the concept that the world shouldn't care, is ludicrous.
Journeywalker
Member
Ah, so I guess you're not one of the general populace? Please, master race GTP, explain to me how the world is not an interconnected web of economic, political, and military spheres of influence. That the United States should not care about a country that it supports in joining NATO.
Oh the US's part in escalation of the conflict. Having a Russian neighbor join an anti Russia organization is peak escalation.
'a country routinely threatened by Russia wants to join a anti-russia alliance'
How shocking
is this supposed to make me feel bad about them or something? Sorry, I'm not capable to feel sad for bullies getting bullied... or in this case back-stabbers who spy on their "allies".
With the kind of criteria you list, you may just as well call the US a Mafia state... or many of it's allies in the middle east. This doesn't justify what's going on there, but let's not pretend it's a faithful and complete representation of the entire state.
When reading gaf you could get the impression that you're dealing with a North Korea-like dictatorship, which, no matter how much the media likes to paint that picture, is not the case (yet). You're still dealing with an (illiberal) democracy, a somewhat complex one at that. If this wasn't the case, measures against the country would look vastly different.
So how many journalists, or political rivals of the government in power end up dead in the united States?
Your whataboutism failed utterly
Beer Monkey
Member
It wasn't threatened when it was a Russian puppet before the (western) coup. Now it's a western puppet so of course Russia goes crazy like everybody with a brain expected to happen looking at Russia's history (though some of it like Crimea did surprise people because of the swiftness/aggressiveness of the land grab).
'both sides are wrong when it comes to Ukraine so it's fine' - twisted logic to excuse Russia.
Netherscourge
Banned
Well, Pence just put more pressure on Trump to sign that Sanctions bills into law.
You have no substantive counter argument?
You made an actual argument about Russia beyond 'the US do it to'?
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
What's with these new Juniors and the astroturfing?
You tried this BS in the other thread and disappeared as soon as you were called out.
Here's a full Wiki article with tons of links to direct statements and testimonies by pretty much every agency in the US.
But sure, keep trying to muddy those waters, buddy.
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