SmartWaffles
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You even sure he took the "shot"?
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Quantum Break Unmarked Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter SmartWaffles
- Start date
You even sure he took the "shot"?
Read the emails. The story makes a lot more sense after reading them. I would also suggest reading more of this thread.
The thing that killed me was stressing through the whole game that the timeline couldn't be altered, but then Jack's brother being allowed to survive because Jack didn't technically see it happen. I hate stupid time paradox stories and that was just the worst of the worst.
That's not really what happened. He wasn't suddenly allowed to be saved for some reason. The brother never died in the first place.
If I remember correctly Jack even says something like this and Will corrects him that nothing has been altered. Jack had only assumed Will had died but he never did. No paradox and everything still consistent.
Yeah, but he didn't die because his future self came back and saved him. It was Bill and Ted time travel nonsense.
No, it's time travel period. If you interact with the past in time travel stories a paradox happens. A paradox that can't be explained with our current scientific knowledge, so there are various theories and lines of thought on if and how you could ever change anything, multiple dimensions etc. etc. It's not like there's a definite scientific answer here. So calling it nonsense just because it creates a paradox seems ignorant to me. Obviously I'm no expert on the field, however, and am open to corrections here.
Basically, I'd tell you this: Just because we experience time in a straight line doesn't mean that's how it objectively moves. Thinking about time that way means there has to be a "beginning", some timeline where the brother actually did die. But that doesn't have to be the case. Brother never died because MC always saved him because time is a loop (not exactly the same thing, but it explains my point). There is no "first" or "last" timeline, it's all one big loop. Or it's not. That's the fun thing about time travel! It's all possible! Or not. Again, I'm happy to be corrected by the resident GAF time professor ^^
So, if future Jack had actually saved his brother from the collapse of the library and then went with him to the pool shortly after and set off the countermeasure and killed Serene, how did he also go to the pool with Beth and college girl while the world was being destroyed, since future Jack had already fixed the world at the point? How did any of the things happen in the future happen?
If you're going to buy that Jack's brother didn't actually die because he saved him in the future, then there are actually two futures, something that the story specifically says doesn't happen.
Yeah, but the game goes to great lengths to say you can't make a paradox. No matter what you do, whatever has happened will still happen. So if you start mixing in paradoxes in this story, you are in conflict with the rules of the story.
But this is totally in line with that. His brother never died because MC always saved him by traveling to the past.
But he didn't always close the break in the past. By closing the break they are changing the past, which they should not be able to do. They can't stop anything from happening, be it 9/11 or their parent's deaths or whatever, but they can stop the break, even though it has already happened and caused the end of time.
Paradoxes and alternate timelines are a thing, and (even though I find them cheap and stupid) they work in other stories. But if during the whole game it is stated you can't change the past, but then the story ends by changing the past...
Why are you so sure that they did close the break?
The story was clearly set up for a sequel and Martin Hatch can obviously only exist if the End of Time does indeed happen. And at the end of the game we know that Jack wants to go back to save the agent (sorry, been a while) and we can probably guess that the time-fuckery he starts by trying that isn't great for the whole time-space-continuum-business.. Obviously we won't ever see any of that but the presence of Martin Hatch clearly showed that the End of Time has not been averted but only delayed. At least that's how I remember interpreting it back then but again, it's been quite a few months for me.Why are you so sure that they did close the break?
We know that things are different because at the end of the game everyone is fine. At the point he goes back to save his brother the earth is basically a disaster zone heading toward the end of time, and when the game ends, everything is relatively ok. It might not be completely fixed, but we are obviously in a different future. A future that supposedly has to happen because you can't change the past.
The entire time the game is going on it is made pretty clear that you can't branch off into a different future. Except until the point when the game says you can. Yes, the game definitely wants to imply that Jack will go back and somehow save Beth, but if that is possible then the game is again thoroughly breaking its own rules.
I think you missed a huge undertone at the end of the game... nothing actually changed.
Jack wasn't able to save his brother simply because he didn't see it happen. Will was always saved by future Jack. Present Jack simply didn't see him get saved because there was a giant stone in the way.
"Not seeing" the event or rather "not knowing with certainly what took place" simply provided our heros with motivation to influence what took place... but really it pushed them into doing things that were already predeterminded.
Also, Jack didn't actually prevent the ending that Serine saw. He THINKS he did.
The story makes perfect sense.
I can't quite follow your logic here. There is a huge 5 year gap between the end of the game on October 10th 2016 and the End of Time in 2021. There doesn't have to be a split in timelines. The End of Time could have been delayed in 2016, only to turn into a problem again a year later when Joyce starts time traveling again so it then eventually happens in 2021. Actually, that makes a lot of sense because if I remember right it was specifically stated that the End of Time occured in 2021 and not before. If Jack and William wouldn't have used the Counter-Measure it would have already occured in 2016, which is not possible because we already know that it happens in 2021.
So what I'm saying is that the Counter-Measure has always worked and that it never averted the End of Time but only delayed it. There aren't multiple timelines. That's how it always happened.
Of course that storyline doesn't work out now because there won't be any sequels but seeing how we know that the End of Time DOES happen thanks to the appearance of Martin Hatch, that Jack Joyce will travel through time again to save the agent (and that he still has weird time-hallucinations after using the Counter-Measure) and how Remedy specifically left a 5 year gap open to fill with future games made it very clear to me, personally, that the Counter-Measure never actually stopped the End of Time.
So basically what you're saying is that everything just played out as it had already played out and time will end anyway. Serene just didn't know it because he hadn't visited that part of the timeline. Except this still doesn't explain the times that Jack visited the pool with both Beth and college girl and again with Beth and college girl and the scientist. Because at that point in time Jack had already set the countermeasure off.
I don't think that's true. I'm pretty sure the employment of the Counter-Measure and the subsequent interview with Monarch are the chronolically last parts of the game until the End of Time in 2021. This detailed timeline seems to say the same.
Jack uses the time machine first (with Beth, the college girl and the scientist) to travel to 2010 and then uses the time machine at Monarch to Travel to the beginning of the game on October 9th and then uses the time machine at the pool with William to travel "back" to October 10th to use the counter-measure.
Ah OK, I think I was forgetting this part
So the triggering of the countermeasure does occur after the other pool visits.
So basically time is still going to end and there's nothing anyone can do about it yay.
Yeah, I think that's the plot. I'm sure they would have found SOME way to destroy some time crystal or kill the time demon or ask Martin Hatch really nicely to avert the End of Time and create a new timeline or something (even though I'd love it if Remedy actually planned a trilogy that ends with "Nope. You are all fucked either way. Fuck you") but as far as we know it all happens exactly as we saw and everything we did was for nothing because Jack Joyce will fuck it up again by trying to safe his girlfriend.
Yeah, I can only guess that the whole deal with Martin Hatch and the Shifters was supposed to be a tease for the sequels and the second/third game would largely revolve about them.
By the way, this is an interesting point: Just because William says there can't be multiple timelines and that what happened always has to happen doesn't mean that's objectively true. These characters obviously don't know everything about time travel and how the space time continuum works (as made obvious by William thinking that he averted the End of Time with his Counter-Measure) so everything they say should be taken with a grain of salt. As a Shifter, Martin is the only person with any actual authority on the matter and his one note you are referencing here seems to clearly indicate that there ARE multiple timelines and that he has to actively fight for the End of Time to happen so his species can exist.
The story is well-crafted and it takes some time to understand it perfectly.
Regarding Jack saving Beth: We had a theory about it(it's a sad theory): http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201582654&postcount=291
Regarding Jack saving Beth: We had a theory about it(it's a sad theory): http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201582654&postcount=291
Yeah its one of the better crafted time travel stories IMO. but its hard to see just how good without a time-line
It kills me that we'll never get a resolution
Episode 3, the Hospital scene was the dumbest fucking thing I have ever seen.
Why put a Security guard there as an extra when he's just gunna stand there and do nothing?
Yeah, his wife is all "WTF?!" but what about everyone else? They just silently watch that shit and no one calls the police or anything? Bahahaha
Why put a Security guard there as an extra when he's just gunna stand there and do nothing?
Yeah, his wife is all "WTF?!" but what about everyone else? They just silently watch that shit and no one calls the police or anything? Bahahaha