That's a blatant false equivalence. It's obviously something that happens in different countries, but not to this extent. Especially not on public transportation.
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Rampant Sexual Assault in Japan ((quoted stories of rape warning))
- Thread starter Sunster
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That's a blatant false equivalence. It's obviously something that happens in different countries, but not to this extent. Especially not on public transportation.
I don't think this is the source of the problem, though it certainly doesn't help. A fix can't be simply uncensoring porn. Maybe I'm wrong
They could start by ditching the fucking skirts, that might help.
Sunster
Member
Yea people like to use Japan as the model country in anti-immigration talks too. and in more racist circles, anti race mixing talks.
FF Seraphim
Member
So I take one of Tokyo's Metro lines on the days it is raining, during rush hour there is no space for someone to escape if they are being assaulted. The way I see businessmen leer at school girls here and sometimes openly talk about wanting to sleep with them, this isnt surprising. I honestly do not know how they can fix it because change here takes a very long time and they are reluctant to change things due to tradition.
It's interesting that the badges work at all. Wearing what is basically an anti-molestation badge would get you laughed here in America, maybe make yourself a target for greater harassment. The mere idea of being called out for groping is apparently a powerful deterrent for most of these molesters.
That avatar though...
I was recently rewatching Haruhi with some friends, and we were all disgusted to see that the second episode involves the female protagonist falsely accusing men of rape to blackmail them. It's supposed to be a comedic moment, but it just came off as gross and is even more appalling in the context of this article.
(Haruhi is a high-school-setting anime that was absurdly popular circa 2006-2010. A lot of the sexual humor was cringey when it first aired, and it's only gotten worse with age.)
(Haruhi is a high-school-setting anime that was absurdly popular circa 2006-2010. A lot of the sexual humor was cringey when it first aired, and it's only gotten worse with age.)
Sunster
Member
Well this thread is about Japan specifically.
TickleMeElbow
Member
I mentioned this earlier, but at the school I went to they were supposed to be long. The girls would alter them or fold them at the waist to make them shorter. It's not like short ass skirts are school policy lol. Most of the girls I knew got shorter skirts or made them shorter because they wanted to.
Don't blame the girls because they want to be fashionable. Blame the culture that doesn't punish the pervs harshly enough.
It definitely wouldn't fix this problem on it's own, rape and molestation are obviously humanity-wide issues, but I really do think it's a big contributor to some of the more unhealthy parts of Japan's specific sexual culture.
FF Seraphim
Member
Yelling out ちかん (chikan) will surprisingly get results. Seen a guy bum rushed off a train when a woman yelled it and I assume handed to authorities.
How many Japanese are watching this anime/manga stuff? Millions? Tens of millions? And probably less than 1% are perpetrating these crimes. Attacking the genres/mediums for sexualising schoolgirls is going to put a lot of people offside and I think likely to do more harm for the cause than good. Just go after the perpetrators.
You should attack them regardless of crimes, really.
neurosisxeno
Member
It really is though. Regardless of reported numbers a lot of people view pornography, and when it's that harshly censored people don't really get a clear view of human sexuality. If you were raised in a society that exclusively allowed BDSM themed pornography, odds are you would think that's normal. Your only insight into human sexuality is women (or even men) being tied up and objectified (going to say I have nothing wrong with BDSM, that's a separate discussion) and over time you'll likely think that is the normal kind of intimate interactions.
A lot of Japanese Hentai and Porn is predicated on young women being basically raped, or at the least sexually assaulted--and discovering that they like it. The only insight a lot of people have therefore, is that women want to be sexually assaulted, that they like being groped and secretly want to have sex but are just too shy. It's probably easier for people in someplace like America to say that seems silly, but we have much more open access to these things. Repression is problematic because it doesn't allow you to get the full context of things, and you end up developing unreasonable or unacceptable views on things. If Japanese men and women could watch uncensored and tastefully made adult films, rather than what they have access to now, it would almost certainly give them a better understanding of human sexuality and intimacy.
"Honor and shame are huge parts of it."
Why?
Yeah, an article about this pops up every once in a while and they usually lament about how hard it is for the victim to speak out and how perpetrators often get away due to pressure on the victims to keep hush. Usually there's also mention of people trying to change things but it obviously hasn't gotten much better if the same articles are still appearing.
The sheer inertia against doing something about it is mindboggling.
It's kinda chicken an egg, it's not seen as a huge problem partially because it happens often (slather on a layer of sexism), but at the same time it probably happens because it's hard to enforce. Get groped and by the time you can do anything the guy is long gone. Not sure what you can do other than awareness at this stage along with a lot of other related gender issues that need fixing.
Sunster
Member
Sexualized Schoolgirls. I don't know what else there is to say.
Fake edit: Reread your post - I didn't meant to attack anime in general, but specific characteristics of certain shows/genres.
Because when the highest consumed media is constantly objectifying young women and sexualizing underage girls that is not a good look.
Seriously, it sickens me to see how they seem to have no problems portraying clearly teenager girls (be it in manga or videogames) as sexual objects.
perfectchaos007
Member
WTFFFF they can literally pay to practice their sexual assault fantasies. No wonder so much of this happens on the trains
Valkerionseven
Member
What about it?
But yeah there is no real point to changing the school uniforms. The fetishization of the school girl uniform in this country or the next has always been a thing. Take a dive in the the 90s and 80s and you will still see school girls. This isn't some new thing that arrived with the explosion of popularity of AKB48. It's been there for as long as there were teen pop stars.
Personally, I'd like more cameras and security on public transport. We have 3 bus companies in my city, only the largest one has cameras on SOME of the buses. These tend to be the buses with high amounts of high schoolers thankfully. More can definitely be done. We also have women only sections of other things like boats and what not. Here though most people just sit where ever. See ladies on the men only area all the time.
As bad as it is, I'm way to cautious about this on the trains when I occasionally ride them. If I'm standing I make a conscious effort to grab the upper rails/handles just in case. I know many men that do as well -shrug-
If I remember right there was a video of some high school boys who tackled a molester or maybe he was taking videos up skirts or something... off the train a few few years ago. Most people were happy about it showing that there are some upstanding men out there, teens no less. Then of course there were others saying they should have just reported him, like it would have done something.
Also also, if anyone thinks the people here do not have access to uncensored porn... I would like to inform you that we do indeed have the internet haha. But also it is possible to get the uncensored versions as well. Why its still made censored is beyond me and my vast porn knowledge but like many things Japan is behind in its laws that need to be updated.
Recalling a couple of conversations with some of my friends who attended school in japan, sometimes not even there were they safe.
How japanese society treats this was very shocking when I heard about it from my gal pals a few years ago.
To see this thread and the article... rather unsettling that it has not improved.
Marmaladefire
Member
I didn't say it was the same? I said I see how it is such a pervasive issue, especially having some of the experiences I have had as a young woman. As a high schooler I had to traverse around using the one of the world's other infamously horribly overpacked public transportation systems, and these things aren't even unheard of there, so I am sympathizing, not creating an equivalence.
Speaking to some friends who have lived in Japan and anthropologists who I've taken courses with, it's incredibly frustrating and upsetting to see these issues continually ignored year after year.
My take on the phenomenon is that it isn't just men copping a quick grope and disappearing into the crowd, but full on groping and digital rape over like a minute. If that's the case I suppose the first thing is to try and empower the girls with enough confidence to react to it as it happens, create an environment where other people around will back them and protect them, instead of them being too afraid to point it out and remaining a victim.
kame-sennin
Member
Yup. There is clearly a lot of hate and contempt for women in Japan and it needs to stop.
Gender segregation is not a solution to the problem. It certainly doesn't address the core issue.
Are you going to come for every porn scene to include a schoolgirl outfit after you're done with anime/manga?
Sorry. I jumped the gun.
Cameras are always good, though I'm not sure they'd pick up anything on a packed train. The victims should be encouraged to grab the offender's hand while in the act and yell out "Chikan!" to alert everyone.
A previous article I read had some victims say they didn't want to cause a fuss because they didn't want it to seem like they were bringing attention to themselves like people judging them "Oh, you think you're prettier than other girls, that must be why you're bein assaulted?" >_>
Sunster
Member
Let's start with the ones featuring children and young teenagers first.
Porn is not the problem, and if you look at the US we have made a lot of steps in toning down sexualization and how we portray women. Even in video games, where women were notoriously objectified. It's a process, not something you just ignore.
Edit: I should take back what I said about porn after reading some things in here. I guess it is an issue as well.
Frozenprince
Banned
Japan's societal malaise about any and all changes to the social fabric of society guarantees that this will be an issue, and may in fact get worse as population density increases and transportation becomes more efficient, in perpetuity.
Really the whole country needs a long, hard self reflective look.
Really the whole country needs a long, hard self reflective look.
I agree with all of this. The post I quoted said the problem was censorship of porn, which I think is the least of jp porns problems.
Fortunately then, the population is decreasing, but who knows if city density will continue to increase regardless of the national decrease.
Valkerionseven
Member
Yes. Gravure itself varies pretty wildly in... intensity? I guess if that is the word I want. Some of the stuff, definitely adult ladies, videos are basically softcore porn. Talking touching, simulated sex movements and what not.
But the younger girls having pictures in their bikinis and what not always annoys me. When I was a AKB fan the summer music video always weirded me out since it tended to feature the younger members as well. Generally its NOTHING like the previously mentioned stuff but its still there.
Like someone said, this stuff is technically targeted at the middle school and high school boys but is also freely open for anyone to purchase -shrug- I mean, take the weekly mangas here, you have a compliation cover with Naruto, Goku, YuGi and what not, and middle or top corner is this weeks gravure model with bigish boobs. This is a comic book aimed at teen males. Of course there are different tiers and age ranges for these but they set the precident pretty early on.
All of this. It's bad enough walking on the streets or taking the subway as a very young looking woman. Add on to that all the Sexualization of being a school girl in Japan? Fuck.
Frozenprince
Banned
Density will only get worse as the housing market stagnates and smaller rural towns die off more and more.
Poor wording there
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yeah this.
Think of how bad the problem would actually have to be for a patricarchichal culture to have offered "women's only" trains a long time ago.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
This is fucking sick.
Japan has turned the objectification of the girl into a whole industry that has mainstream appeal in the country. The resistance to the status quo is disappointingly low. Women are born and brought up being exposed to the media and the gross portrayal of their own sex, and as a result they internalize these values and don't know any better.
The results of that start with child idols and gravure models and end in you are married now so of course you become a house wife. I wouldn't want to be a woman in that country.
The results of that start with child idols and gravure models and end in you are married now so of course you become a house wife. I wouldn't want to be a woman in that country.
Valkerionseven
Member
Would like to reiterate once again that Japan does have the internet hahaha.
Given the amount of the back of teen boys heads I have to slap in a afternoon for bringing up non Japanese porn stars, the assumption that the only thing available to the people here is their own censored stuff (that once again it is possible to get it with censoring) is pretty silly this day and age.
Also once again assuming that 90% or whatever other made up stat is simulated rape porn is also silly. Though I would agree that the fact that it is even considered an accepted genre here is a issue. Theres probably more variety in Japanese porn than anywhere else.
Trying to follow the thought process here, if the problem does not extend to the depiction of sexualised/fetishised schoolgirls in porn, then why is the problem its existence in other mediums? Because theoretically porn is only available to adults?
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