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Ranking the Batman: Arkham games

D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
The latter half of Arkham Knight committed the writing sins of using "then" rather than "therefore" or "but", seriously bothered me, not to mention, that while the Batmobile was fun to use it (actual spoiler)
replaced the boss battles from previous games, which were great to diversify the game and break the pacing of it. Instead, you are stuck with tank battles that from a certain point, can be the same, with the exception of two.

Taking that in account, I'd rank the series as this:

City>Knight>Asylum (I have not yet played Origins, so I cannot judge it)

Asylum ending's was much worse than Knight's, so it left a worse taste in my mouth.
Whoever thought of Joker Titan was crazy. It happened so sudden and ended just as fast, even on Hard.

City seems to be the best Batman game, in my eyes. Doesn't have the lows of Asylum and Knight, and actually has the best boss fight in all the series.

EDIT: The problem with Knight is not that they added too much. The problem was that things in past games, such as boss fights, side missions, and actual good level design for foot levels was reduced because of the additions of things like the Batmobile. Hell I'm still waiting for Challenge Rooms.
 

Parshias7

Member
My current ranking is Origins > City > Asylum and I don't know where to put Knight. It might help that I played Origins way after launch so I didn't experience any bugs apart from one crash that didn't lost me any progress.

Arkham Knight is tricky for me to place. Its a game with the highest highs and the lowest lows of the series. The new gliding mechanics are amazing, the game world is incredible, the amount of details poured into the game is fantastic. But then you have car stealth, repetitive as hell side missions, and wonky combat sections with a million shield/big/electric goons with a system that I felt doesn't target as well as any of the previous games, which leads to frustration. Oh, and the story has some pretty awful parts. I certainly enjoyed the game, just don't know how I'd rank it.
 
I am yet to play Arkham Knight, so at the moment my ranking is.

1. Asylum - I really wasn't expecting it to be so good. I preferred the closed off world and the Metroid style gameplay. All the villians were great, but that
last boss was rubbish
.

2. City - I loved gliding around the city. However I actually put this down half way through, as I got a bit bored. I came back to it a few months after and I was then hooked, trying to get all the Riddler trophies etc.

3. Origins - I really enjoyed this game. The detective stuff was the best in the series so far. Although I can see the criticism, as it was basically just Arkham City 1.5.

I will probably pick up Arkham Knight at the end of the month. I made a decision not to buy any new games this month, until I had cleared a few from my backlog.
 

Eidan

Member
I agree fully. I go into it here:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=928447

Knight continues to do things better than previous games, augmenting the core gameplay considerably, but people will lambaste it for it saying "there's too much" added.

Yeah, I've read your thread before. It's amazing seeing you put so much thought into your critique to just receive one sentence responses of "AA's design is much better".
 
We should have a poll in this thread.

Anyway:

Knight (by a long shot)> City> Asylum

Knight has some of the best writing I've seen in a game in awhile. It was dreadful, psychotic, creepy and never before have I felt the odds stacked against me as a player and for Batman himself. A lone man going to war against some disturbed individuals. The best par tof all this is the insight into just how scared these villains were of Batman himself. Shifting to the perspective of supporting cast was brilliant. I absolutely adore Knight.
 

Zakalwe

Banned
The one thing I wish they had more of in Knight is boss battles.

Proper boss battles, not just modified hand to hand combat encounters. Like Ra's, Freeze, Grundy.

It was pretty disappointing battling through the side quests to be met with a cutscene instead of an encounter. Really hoping the DLC adds something here.
 
I see a lot of complaints for the story in City.

Whether you like City or not, you have to agree that even if it was going fine, it totally drops the ball the second you do the Demon Trials.

Everything from there on out is ridiculous.
 
I see a lot of complaints for the story in City.

Whether you like City or not, you have to agree that even if it was going fine, it totally drops the ball with the second you do the Demon Trials..

Everything from there on out is ridiculous.

Ditto Asylum. These game start off so well only to go into poorly told comic booky garbo. That Knight takes a different approach was very much welcomed. Story felt more like a psychological thriller.
 
Man, I'm consistently baffled when I see people rank Asylum above other entries in the series, especially City. There isn't a single thing that Asylum does better than subsequent entries (haven't played Knight yet). I assume it can be chalked up to some people's view that a small environment equals a "tighter" experience. Which means very little to me.

I just don't like most open world games, and Rocksteady's take on it in the sequels didn't do anything for me.
 

Parshias7

Member
I see a lot of complaints for the story in City.

Whether you like City or not, you have to agree that even if it was going fine, it totally drops the ball the second you do the Demon Trials.

Everything from there on out is ridiculous.

Honestly Origins is the only game in the series I would consider as having a good story.

Asylum's is fine, although Titan Joker at the end is dumb.
 

cackhyena

Member
Ditto Asylum. These game start off so well only to go into poorly told comic booky garbo. That Knight takes a different approach was very much welcomed. Story felt more like a psychological thriller.

? Everything about this game is comic booky garbo, as you put it. Cloud bursts, Knight reveal, batmobile tank bs, Poison Ivy magical solutions, ...the dialogue at nearly every point. I mean, let's not kid ourselves.

I also don't get people bagging on the idea that some like Asylum better, and think it's the better game. It's just a matter of wanting a focused story and game play over what open worlds offer. I understand it, although I don't agree. City still beats them all in nearly every category for me, but like I said, I haven't played Origins.
 

Alienous

Member
I see a lot of complaints for the story in City.

Whether you like City or not, you have to agree that even if it was going fine, it totally drops the ball the second you do the Demon Trials.

Everything from there on out is ridiculous.

City does have a 'comic book-y' plot but I can't fault it for doing something original, tying the characters together reasonably (such as Ra's Al Ghul's reason for being in Gotham and Batman's reason for going after him) and having the surprise elements of its plot be genuinely surprising.

Arkham Knight
adapts existing storylines
and it doesn't even do it well. Its plot shits the bed after the second hour of the game, with dozens of distinct elements being thrown into a plot blender. I can think of one thing that happens in the middle 6 hours of the game. It isn't like Arkham City where I can trace the path from start to end. I seriously can only think of one plot event (maybe two) that happens in the middle of Arkham Knight. The plot is heavily front and back loaded.
 
EDIT: The problem with Knight is not that they added too much. The problem was that things in past games, such as boss fights, side missions, and actual good level design for foot levels was reduced because of the additions of things like the Batmobile. Hell I'm still waiting for Challenge Rooms.

I would've greatly appreciated some more boss fights, but Asylum had crap for boss fights (zero were good), yet it gained acclaim because of its basic gameplay. Knight made leaps forward with its gameplay and boss encounters such as (side mission villains)
Two-Face
,
Riddler
and
Pyg
consist of that core gameplay with a twist and some decent theming (the bank robberies allow loud takedowns under cover of the alarms and the villain monologuing appropriately, the enemies that don't feel pain, etc.).

Again, I would appreciate good boss fights, but Rocksteady hasn't always provided those. I'd rather take moments featuring the great, solid core gameplay over outright poor traditional boss fights included only so that people could say the game had some. That said, the side-missions I mentioned actually include some decent boss encounters.

Yeah, I've read your thread before. It's amazing seeing you put so much thought into your critique to just receive one sentence responses of "AA's design is much better".

The only thing about that that bothers me is there are people who are after denying themselves a replay (or even a full first playthrough) of City, and now a bit with Knight, based on a flawed impressions when they would possibly enjoy the games far more than . People say they can't enjoy City because it's "open-world," and that they loved Asylum, despite City having the same type of progression Asylum had. You get people saying it takes forever to get across the map in City when it factually takes less time to do than in AA. People say the story in AC is bad when AA's is worse, except when the narrative is nonexistent (neither game had good overall stories). So many tend to forget the outright terrible aspects of Asylum and instead tell themselves it's the best because it is (imitating) a Metroid-like game — it's as if some are assessing the (perceived) genres for their games rather than the actual games themselves.

Like here:

I just don't like most open world games, and Rocksteady's take on it in the sequels didn't do anything for me.

City really, really isn't any more of an open world game in any meaningful way than Asylum was "open world." City's overworld is just like Asylum's but without narrow pathways between each major area. You still have item-based progression, you still have environmental puzzles (even more than before), yet you now have some choice as to how you progress. It's not sprawling, it's not full of any more empty space than what was already in Asylum and if you don't let yourself be distracted by the (optional) side missions, then the pacing is really no different either. Not only does City do that stuff as well as Asylum, it does heaps of things better that no one will contest (combat, traversal, bosses). You're doing yourself a disservice if you like Asylum, but never try or go back to City.

Knight crosses over into "open world" territory, yet even then, it's more of a hubworld like the past games, once that contains environments that only support the core gameplay. There's no shortage of puzzles, fights and stealth throughout the main game, and all of it takes advantage of the overworld as much as any linear action game. It's not something like recent GTAs where the hand-holding and scripting during missions get in the way of the gameplay's potential.
 
Asylum is unlikely to ever be surpassed for me. The game is undeniably great, but a lot of the love I have for it was because it caught me totally off guard. After Asylum, it was expected that the following Rocksteady games would be great. Origins is easily the worst in my book.
 
I haven't played Arkham Knight, mind you (I play on PC, so I won't be picking it up for quite some time).

I rank the rest Asylum > Origins > City.

They're all on more or less the same level of quality, though.
 

Metal B

Member
Asylum >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> City >> Orgins
I have no intention to play Knight, since the others burned me off the series, ever since the series got an heavier focus on open-world-design and too big in scale in general.
For me the series should get small in scope and focus on actual mechanics and details. Instead of going after every villain in the book, i actually want to explore one bad guy in depth, do real detective work and find a way to save somebody in the shadows. Feeling like a mortal person, looking like an immortal being.
 
Asylum = Origns - City - Knight

The only thing lamer than the Knight's true identity is the sheer volume of drone tanks you're forced to deal with. The Batmobile itself is kinda neat and is used in some interesting puzzles but holy shit Rocksteady you really should've dialed the sheer number of tank fights back by a good fifty percent and maybe hit up some of the Origins guys to get you some actual boss fights.
 

Wavebossa

Member
Origins is the best batman game i've ever played, and city is right behind it.

Origins
City
Asylum (not a knock against it!)
Knight


I like Knight but I have it for PC and refuse to finish it until its fixed. So I can't properly rank it yet.
 
I never played Origins and technically haven't completed Knight but...

Asylum
Knight
City

It's super hard to differentiate them and I love them all, but I find Asylum is the most focused and well paced experience due to the smaller scale. Knight perfected City's formula, but I find annoying flaws such as lackluster boss battles and repetitive tank combat hold it back.
 

Wavebossa

Member
I never played Origins and technically haven't completed Knight but...

Asylum
Knight
City

It's super hard to differentiate them and I love them all, but I find Asylum is the most focused and well paced experience due to the smaller scale. Knight perfected City's formula, but I find annoying flaws such as lackluster boss battles and repetitive tank combat hold it back.

You should really play Origins, it feels like your playing through a 3 episode arc of Batman: The Animated Series.

I know that is a turn off for the "Nolan Trilogy" and "Frank Miller" Batman crowd, but to me, Batman TAS was Batman at his absolute best.
 

slop101

Banned
Man, I'm consistently baffled when I see people rank Asylum above other entries in the series, especially City. There isn't a single thing that Asylum does better than subsequent entries (haven't played Knight yet). I assume it can be chalked up to some people's view that a small environment equals a "tighter" experience. Which means very little to me.
It's not so much that it's a "tighter" experience, but that the wold/setting becomes a sort of character you know intimately, one you come to know and understand throughout the course of regular gameplay and it becomes something you know your way around, instead of this huge useless sprawl that the other Bat games have.

So, for me;

Asylum > City = Knight > Origins

Mostly due to the utility/design of the environments they stick you in.
If Knight didn't have the tank bullshit, I'd rank it just higher than City.
 
I will never understand the people that get blindsided when a game based off of a comic book series has a plot and writing similar to that of, well... a comic book. What do you expect?

The only thing about that that bothers me is there are people who are after denying themselves a replay (or even a full first playthrough) of City, and now a bit with Knight, based on a flawed impressions when they would possibly enjoy the games far more than . People say they can't enjoy City because it's "open-world," and that they loved Asylum, despite City having the same type of progression Asylum had. You get people saying it takes forever to get across the map in City when it factually takes less time to do than in AA. People say the story in AC is bad when AA's is worse, except when the narrative is nonexistent (neither game had good overall stories). So many tend to forget the outright terrible aspects of Asylum and instead tell themselves it's the best because it is (imitating) a Metroid-like game — it's as if some are assessing the (perceived) genres for their games rather than the actual games themselves.

I'll be the first to say Asylum is my personal favorite for most of the reasons you mentioned, but I agree that City is an improvement in nearly every aspect and the overall better game from an objective standpoint. And while I understand that some people might not like open world games (The Arkham series is actually one of the open world series I actually do like, incidentally), as you said, if you ignore the side content (You're never pressured into doing it at any point in the game), you can progress through the game exactly like in AA. Do one area/"dungeon" leave, go straight to the next place the story takes you, rise and repeat. Moving around the city takes about the same amount of time it does to go to and from the different facilities in Asylum, anyway.

With that being said, I can see how Knight's overworld could be overwhelming for people that already don't like open world games.
 
4.Oranges well below the others
3. Asylum

theres riddler trophy bloat in City and Knight that is frustrating and stupid. I felt that most of the Asylum riddler stuff was fun or at least felt like something I wanted to do instead of just stuff to check off a list.
Boss fights and the majority of the story was by far the worst of the 3 RS games

I genuinely can't decide if i like City or Knight better. I think both stories hit some beats that were genuinely fantastic and that I was not expecting.

City had less bad moments (I dont have a lot to say about the Knight that is positive) but Knight also had some great moments with characters that the others did not.

Catwoman was better in AC, with real story content.

the challenge maps being gone from Knight is the biggest fuck up content wise in any game that I can think of


I wanted to 100% City but got tired of hunting down riddler bullshit, and in Knight I didn't even bother with it outside of the catwoman rescue, so it's a toss up on that one I guess.

for the "I click new game and this is what I get" parts, i think Knight pulls ahead. the harley scenes when bats and robin are working together to take out thugs, and the team attack stuff is fantastic and I just wish that I had some challenge maps to do all this in.
 

batrush

Member
Steamed through all four games in the past two weeks. It's City >>> Knight > Origins >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Asylum. Asylum had solid level design, but it's comparatively weak in every other category.
 
City really, really isn't any more of an open world game in any meaningful way than Asylum was "open world." City's overworld is just like Asylum's but without narrow pathways between each major area. You still have item-based progression, you still have environmental puzzles (even more than before), yet you now have some choice as to how you progress. It's not sprawling, it's not full of any more empty space than what was already in Asylum and if you don't let yourself be distracted by the (optional) side missions, then the pacing is really no different either. Not only does City do that stuff as well as Asylum, it does heaps of things better that no one will contest (combat, traversal, bosses). You're doing yourself a disservice if you like Asylum, but never try or go back to City.

Knight crosses over into "open world" territory, yet even then, it's more of a hubworld like the past games, once that contains environments that only support the core gameplay. There's no shortage of puzzles, fights and stealth throughout the main game, and all of it takes advantage of the overworld as much as any linear action game. It's not something like recent GTAs where the hand-holding and scripting during missions get in the way of the gameplay's potential.

I've tried and retried City at least 4 times, ignoring all sidequests the last two playthroughs. Still didn't get more than halfway through it. I had a lot more fun with Origins and got further along in that than I did in City, but that eventually petered out for me too. Asylum, in contrast, I've beaten 3 times and loved it pretty much from start to finish each time (stupid ass final boss battle aside).

I've given all of the games in the series that I've played plenty of chances, and only Asylum delivered. Hence why I backed out of a cheapo preorder of Knight--which ended up being a blessing in disguise once all the horrendous PC problems came to light.
 
? Everything about this game is comic booky garbo, as you put it. Cloud bursts, Knight reveal, batmobile tank bs, Poison Ivy magical solutions, ...the dialogue at nearly every point. I mean, let's not kid ourselves.

I think I used a poor choice of words. I mean, of course we are playing comic book games. It's all good. However, nothing in Knight gets even remotely close to being as absurd as Hulk Joker and that moment suspended my disbelief of what that character would do. That's the juxtaposition I was trying to paint.

The stuff you pointed out did not take away from the overall narrative as a whole, for me. Batman's struggle to regain control of a city while fighting for his own sanity was great. It was a more personal story that I very much appreciated and I appreciated how dark the story went to tell it.
 

cackhyena

Member
I think I used a poor choice of words. I mean, of course we are playing comic book games. It's all good. However, nothing in Knight gets even remotely close to being as absurd as Hulk Joker and that moment suspended my disbelief of what that character would do. That's the juxtaposition I was trying to paint.

The stuff you pointed out did not take away from the overall narrative as a whole, for me. Batman's struggle to regain control of a city while fighting for his own sanity was great. It was a more personal story that I very much appreciated and I appreciated how dark the story went to tell it.
I agree, the sanity stuff was great. A great send off for you know who.
 

Eidan

Member
Arkham City is about as open world as your average Zelda title. The way people describe it you'd think they were playing GTA.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
I would've greatly appreciated some more boss fights, but Asylum had crap for boss fights (zero were good), yet it gained acclaim because of its basic gameplay. Knight made leaps forward with its gameplay and boss encounters such as (side mission villains)
Two-Face
,
Riddler
and
Pyg
consist of that core gameplay with a twist and some decent theming (the bank robberies allow loud takedowns under cover of the alarms and the villain monologuing appropriately, the enemies that don't feel pain, etc.).

Again, I would appreciate good boss fights, but Rocksteady hasn't always provided those. I'd rather take moments featuring the great, solid core gameplay over outright poor traditional boss fights included only so that people could say the game had some. That said, the side-missions I mentioned actually include some decent boss encounters.

Oh, I definitely understand the Asylum comment, however City had a good evolution where boss fights were at least they did a good break from the normal pace of the rest of the game.

For example,
Ra's Al Ghul where you did a series of trials with the great traversal mechanics, to then fight him, where he was not merely just another henchman, but an enemy with unique abilites. Freeze's boss fight (the best in the game) made you use all of Batman's predator mechanics, because he adapted to every one of them throughout all of the level, mean while in Knight, the enemies only adapt to the spot from where you attack a single enemy, leaving other spots offering the same movements completely free. Another boss fight which was a nice break from pacing was Clayface, where you know you are in the climax, and the combat is mixed up when you are given a sword.

Note: Gameplay spoilers for Arkham Knight after this. Do not read if you do not want to be spoiled.

Now I'm not telling you that these side missions did not use the core mechanics well, they do. I'm not saying that they did not improve some mechanics either, they did too (the thermobaric charges, enemies that pay attention to the crates where you hide, drones and using the grappling hook to enter crates were very good additions). What I'm trying to say is that they don't feel as varied as City made these supervillains. For instance, the
Two Face
encounter in Knight was
as if he was any other henchman, easy to defeat. In City, while playing as Catwoman, you had to perform several take downs on him, to finally bring him down. It would have been great if enemies continued to arrive while destroying hiding spots for Batman.

Riddler was the only boss fight that was kind of good, and even then there was no evolution in the battle, all three/phases of the battle were exactly the same, where Batman has to hit the blue ones, and Catwoman the red ones, until Riddler has to recharge and one of them goes to punch him.

Penguin was reduced to pressing L1 just to defeat him. The same for Harley.

Deathstroke, an enemy who has been known for incredible melee skills, was reduced to an inferior version of the Cloudburst tank battle, with the same Cobra tank battles I had played at least 5 times before. You don't even get to melee fight against him.

Firefly was a Batmobile chase followed by smashing square. After doing about 10 chases with APC's (which at least were more aggresive) and seeing one of the super villains reduced to that, it was kind of annoying.

The Arkham Knight fight could've been a copy paste from the Freeze fight and I would not have mind, since it would have been better than him going defensive (through sniping and using drones) after him being offensive throughout the entire game. And then taking in account his true identity, it did not make sense either that he didn't try to actively hunt Batman.

Scarecrow, the biggest antagonist in the entire game, was reduced to a cutscene. Not even interactive through a QTE.

EDIT: Oh and I did like
Pyg ,
, it was my favorite sidequest of the entire game.

They did use the core mechanics (save for the last one I mentioned), but they did not feel unique, which was strange and annoying for me considering they were called super villains. Might as well use the same cells as any other prisoner since they weren't that much stronger from your regular bad guy.
 

bender

What time is it?
I haven't played origins but Asylum is easily my favorite despite the terrible boss battles. I honestly don't remember a whole lot about City beyond thinking the shift to a large open world did the game a disservice. Knight is my least favorite as the world is even larger and they leaned way too much on the Batmobile.
 
My copy of Knight is waiting for a PC patch, so I decided to download and play both City and Origins while I wait as I never played them.

Asylum is still my favourite, but so far Origins is a close second. I thought City was OK, but I felt no need to do any of the side missions and found it a little boring actually. Origins is better in almost every way. Not quite though. The city in Origins feels more alive to me, plus the graphics are a big improvement going from one to the other the same night. The fighting seems a little better but I've had the occasion where certain button presses don't register which is a little annoying. The boss fights (so far) have been great, as has the story. I also like that i'm facing characters I hadn't previously heard of which is great. Not just your typical same 3 or 4 go to bad guys.

So as of right now its Asylum, Origins, City. Plus Origins runs so much nicer than City.
 

balohna

Member
Haven't finished Knight or Origins (which I also bought recently and was playing until Knight came in the mail), and I'm a few years removed from playing the first two.

But...

1. Asylum - for the Metroid feel and interesting environments, as well as several memorable moments that felt totally fresh.
2. Knight - refines the City formula. Not sure if huge open world is positive or negative at this point. Tank stuff can be tiring.
3. City - translated Asylum well into open world gameplay. Definitely felt more epic than Asylum, while still having a certain level of intimacy to the environments.
4. Origins - feels a bit stripped down, feels more combat focused (puzzles and exploration feel basic) but the combat isn't as fluid. Love the art style though, and still a good game.

I'm not sure how successful they'd be if a sequel went back to the Asylum style, but I'd be happy as long as it's well executed. May be hard to pull off again, though.
 

Fjordson

Member
Knight may be surpassing City for me now that I'm almost finished with the story and have done a chunk of side quests. I was down on it at first, and I still despise some of the Batmobile sections, but overall it's an excellent game imo.
 
Asylum
Knight
City
Origins

Loved the Metroidvania feel of Asylum and Knight is the only game i've plowed through in 3 days straight since Halo Reach. City was good, but i lost interest and took a break then went back to it, and i've still yet to complete Origins. That pretty much sums up why they're 3rd and 4th on my list.
 

Sullichin

Member
1. Asylum
2. Origins
3. City
4. Knight


Doesn't seem to be any real consensus in this thread because they're all great games. But Asylum, to me, represents the best experience from start to finish even if the sequels have improved various aspects of the mechanics. I prefer the tight, Metroidvania style of design where you backtrack previous areas and use your new gadgets, over an open world that largely looks the same. The different areas of Arkham Asylum feel visually more distinct than the different parts of the city in the open world games. The indoor areas of City/Origins/Knight aren't as complex as those in Asylum.

Origins has the best story and boss fights, but probably the worst freeflow combat. I remember it feeling off. I put City over Knight because it actually has boss fights and lots of challenge maps. Arkham Knight is great but the heavy batmobile focus definitely hampered my enjoyment of the game. I have no urge to play through some of those end-game batmobile sections again.
 
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