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Reevaluating the Zero Escape trilogy (SPOILERS)

Korigama

Member
It's been nearly a full year since the release of the conclusion to the Zero Escape trilogy, Zero Time Dilemma, so this seemed like a good time as any to look back on the series. I first got into the series before the decision came to actually make it one and rebrand it accordingly, the original DS release of 999: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors having been my choice for Game of the Year during my first year voting here. Though having had some limited experience with visual novel/adventure games, at the time I hadn't played anything quite like it, the story having stuck with me long after finishing it.

Yet, I can't say that I hold its successors in the same esteem, which brings me to the point of this thread. Not only would I say that Virtue's Last Reward and Zero Time Dilemma are disappointing follow-ups to 999, I also believe that I've in fact been far too lenient with them in retrospect. What's worse, when attempting to consider all three games as one long, continuous story, it's one that's ultimately as weak as it is inconsistent.


999
115068_front.jpg

Vol. 1 of the Zero Escape trilogy, and ultimately the most straightforward in spite of its many twists and turns. You play the role of Junpei, a young college student who finds himself abducted alongside eight other people and brought to what appears to be a replica of the Titanic. There, he and the others are expected to play what their abductor, a masked assailant known only as Zero, calls the Nonary Game. The objective: make their way through the ship and escape from the various rooms by solving multiple puzzles, eventually reaching the door marked with a 9 within the next nine hours to make their escape or sink with the ship. Failure of participants to comply with the rules leads the bracelets that each has had affixed to his or her wrist to detonate an explosive planted inside of him or her, with said bracelets also numbered 1 through 9 and used to calculate the digital root of individual teams gathered to open each numbered door. Along the way, Junpei discovers his childhood friend Akane Kurashiki among the participants.

As the game continues, the threat of Nonary Game made readily apparent through the gruesome detonation of the participant only known as the 9th Man following his failed attempt to move on without the others, various topics ranging from math, to conspiracy theories, philosophy, science, and pseudoscience are brought up during discussions between Junpei and the other participants along the way, each of them relating to or otherwise serving as foreshadowing within the story as it unfolds. This eventually leads to a wide range of revelations concerning the cast and the overall story, many of which are limited to paths only seen through the multiple endings that the player reaches. However, this winds up being anything but how multiple endings are typically handled in games.

These multiple endings in fact tie in with a central concept discussed within the story called the Morphogenetic Field, with each ending in fact outlining one of many possible ways the Nonary Game could play out for the participants. Knowledge of these events winds up filtering through to Junpei throughout the story, who has no idea why he knows the various things that he does. The explanation ultimately turns out to be that the one who had been passing the information onto him was a 12-year-old Akane from nine years in the past, who had also been the one narrating the events of the game and had been solving the very same puzzles as Junpei and sharing that knowledge with him as well. This of course brings us to the reason for the Nonary Game: it was arranged by Akane as an adult, who is indeed the one known as Zero, in order to not only take revenge on the people who had made her participate in a previous Nonary Game years ago (which included not only the 9th Man and Ace, but also two other executives of the same pharmaceutical company whom Ace had found and killed behind the scenes), but to ensure her continued existence by guiding Junpei and the others to the end of the game in an effort to save herself from being burnt alive in the past. Junpei succeeds in saving Akane in the past, with the present Akane having disappeared with her brother Santa well ahead of the rest of the group from what is in reality a facility in the middle of the desert and not a ship, unable to face them for what they put them through in spite of not really having put bombs inside of anyone other than the people connected to the pharmaceutical company that ran the previous Nonary Game, with the decision having been made to take Ace in alive to answer for his past crimes.

The timey-wimey issue of Akane still being around even before the Nonary Game is a success aside, even with her continued existence having been threatened by events that prevented its conclusion (represented by the high fevers that incapacitated her at various points during the story), along with puzzles generally being on the easy side, 999 ultimately still had the least amount of problems in its execution. The cast was overall likeable with a reasonable amount of depth, the music memorable and put to great use, and the way the universe worked through the idea of being able to observe how one world could branch in various ways and being able to use that knowledge to one's advantage was intriguing, and the twist involving top DS screen representing Junpei in the present and the bottom Akane in the past was an excellent integration of gameplay and storytelling. As a standalone story, 999 works quite well.


VLR

Vol. 2...okay, this is where we first start running into problems. Introduced as being set in 2028, one year after the events of 999, you're placed in the role of Sigma, who finds himself abducted while driving down the road one day and awakens in a room with a mysterious young woman named Phi. After they solve the puzzles necessary to escape, they're brought face-to-face with seven other people in a large facility, where they've been gathered to play what the A.I. program Zero III has called the Ambidex Game. Like with the Nonary Game of 999, each participant has been fitted with a bracelet, though rather than serving as detonators, they're instead capable of injecting the wearer with a sedative followed by a muscle relaxant to kill him or her. The numbers on each participant's bracelet represent a bracelet point (BP) total, with the colors of the bracelet's varying between rounds of the game to determine what doors can be opened by differing team combinations. At the end of each round of room escaping and puzzle solving, participants enter rooms to vote whether to Ally or Betray the people they've been grouped with, which affects their current BP accordingly (both Ally: +2 BP; both Betray: no change; one Ally, one Betray: +3 BP for Betray voter, -2 BP for Ally voter); should a participant's BP drop to 0, they die, should they get 9 BP, they can open the door to escape the facility, which is set to only do so once.

As the game progresses, it's revealed that it's not 2028, but in fact 2074, and the group is trapped in a facility on the moon following an outbreak of a virus called Radical-6 that wiped out most of the Earth's population, perpetrated by a terrorist religious cult called Free the Soul. Rather than making use of the Morphogenetic Field to share information, Sigma and Phi have the power to jump between timelines, known as SHIFTing, eventually leading the group to gather the information they need to prevent the participant Dio, an FTS cultist and part of their private assassins the Myrmidons, from destroying the facility. This eventually leads also leads to preventing the death of old woman Akane, who had orchestrated the game as part of the AB Project alongside Sigma, who is in reality Zero Sr. and no longer the young man he was prior to his abduction, but a 67-year-old man. This eventually leads Sigma and Phi to SHIFT back to 2028, in order to infiltrate the Mars mission test site on Earth from where the Radical-6 outbreak originated now that they've obtained the necessary knowledge through participating in the Ambidex Game.

Compared to 999, the cast of VLR is nowhere near as likeable. In fact, most of them are unsympathetic jerks, even returning characters from 999 such as Clover (who is significantly worse here). This is only compounded by the nature of the Ambidex Game, and thanks to continuing with the multiple ending structure of 999 with four times the number of endings that game had, will lead to plenty of cases where you will be betrayed and you will need to betray others. The most decent people in the entire cast, who never betray anyone, wound up being Luna and Quark, a very nice, soft-spoken girl who turned out to be a robot and a well-mannered child respectively. Even without being a villain, Alice (once the subject of occasional myths and a gag from 999's ending) was almost as awful a person as Dio, already having been rather unpleasant, but even having had the audacity to vote betray and wind up killing you after you had brought her the cure to Radical-6 (her fate being to lose it and kill herself on most timelines). Though the music was still good, it generally wasn't used as well as in 999, especially the returning track Imaginary. It was also very disappointing to go from the expressive sprites of 999 to the poorly-made 3D models of VLR, which are far below the standard of the transition represented by the Ace Attorney series in detail and animation, with the character designs themselves easily being the worst overall in the series. The twist of Sigma being an old man being something that the character himself never picked up on be it through hearing the sound of his own voice compared to when he was in his 20s, stumbling across a reflective surface far sooner than the ending, or even touching his own face reflexively is improbable, and relied upon his character being the only one without a voice actor to keep it hidden. I also found the puzzles to be needlessly obtuse more often than not. Having gone from such a personal story to a grand mission to save the world also led to VLR feeling less engaging than 999, with the sheer scale and complexity of the story having gone full Metal Gear Solid in its bloat and convolution. Furthermore, moving away from simply sharing information through the Morphogenetic Field to actually jumping between timelines in whatever direction Sigma and Phi pleased took away from the impact of how things unfolded compared to 999. It also made it clear that the way the universe of ZE works wasn't quite as logical by time travel fiction standards as its predecessor suggested.


ZTD

Vol. 3...where everything finally came crashing down. As VLR suggested, the setting is the Mars mission test site in 2028 mentioned there. Rather than one player character, there are three, one for each team: D-Team, led by VLR backstory character and model for Luna, Diana, who's accompanied by Sigma and Phi; C-Team, led by a firefighter named Carlos, accompanied by Junpei and Akane; and finally Q-Team, led by a boy with a metal helmet on his head simply called Q, his teammates being prerequisite fan service character (in the vein of 999's Lotus or VLR's Alice) Mira and her boyfriend Eric. Following a coin flip, leading to either being let go by a masked figure going by Zero II or being made to play the Decision Game depending upon the choice the player makes, the final story in the trilogy begins in the event of the latter. Like the previous games, everyone gets a bracelet, this one's function being to tell the participants the time and inject a sedative that also makes everyone forget what happened in the last 90 minutes. Unlike 999 and VLR, the team assignments remain the same for the entire game, in spite of the escape-the-room and puzzle-solving elements still being a factor. Also unlike 999 and VLR, the Decision Game is deliberately structured to lead to its participants being killed in various ways over and over again across timelines, with the story unfolding in a nonlinear pattern through the new fragments system that has the player rotate between all three teams. As with VLR, SHIFTing is a factor.

This eventually leads to some endings clearing up questions posed by VLR such as ones detailing how Radical-6 got out, Radical-6 being an extremely small part of the story in light of how VLR had built things up, as well as the disconnect regarding why Junpei supposedly never found Akane before the events of VLR as the old man known as Tenmyouji. Unlike both ZE games before this one, Zero was not in fact one of the nine participants, but instead a tenth member part of Q-Team, an old supposedly blind and deaf wheelchair-bound man named Delta. Said old man is also the leader of Free the Soul known as Brother, and conducted the game to...ensure his own birth by seeing to it that Sigma and Diana were trapped in the facility, which eventually led to them conceiving both Delta as well as Phi. With no hope for escape, this led Sigma and Diana to use alien transporter technology in the facility capable of copying entire humans one at a time per pod, with months worth of downtime between uses, in order to send copies of the twins to a different timeline, leaving the originals and themselves to starve to death in their own timeline. Other than guaranteeing his own birth, this also allowed Delta to gain a power he called mind hacking, allowing him to control the actions of people telepathically and read the minds of SHIFTers to plan out his entire scheme since he himself can't SHIFT. Delta also turned out to be the actual person named Q, with the other group members insisting that they never referred to the boy, actually a mass-produced robot, we've been led to believe was Q as anything other than Sean. And finally, it's revealed that he orchestrated having Radical-6 released, leading to killing 6 billion people in order to...kill a different fanatic who would've killed 8 billion people somehow. With many more timelines having been created as a result of the Decision Game, including one where Radical-6 doesn't get released and wipe out most of humanity, the group is left with the choice of staying and dying in a timeline where the facility will self-destruct, or SHIFT to that timeline, SHIFTing having been established in the ZE universe as swapping places between a SHIFTer and one of their alternate timeline selves, essentially dooming them to die in his or her place. They choose to SHIFT, using their power to bring along Mira as well, a non-SHIFTer who by that point everyone is aware is a serial killer who's killed each of them at least once on other timelines (and killed Eric's mother which led to a whole tragic chain of events, up to and including the wrongful conviction and execution of Akane's father for the crime and her mother's suicide) and arrive in the timeline at the beginning of the game where their other selves won the coin flip, the ending leaving it ambiguous as to whether Carlos used the gun Delta gave him to shoot him or let him go.

While the cast is preferable to VLR's, Q-Team is easily the weak link in the chain, with Eric being a mentally unstable, occasionally murderous jerkass which the game waffles between making an antagonist and expressing the desire to make look more sympathetic based on his upbringing, and Mira is a literal sociopath with no comprehension of human emotion and quite often kills on a whim, not always adhering to her MO of carving out people's hearts as the story establishes. Even worse, no one ever calls Mira out on who or what she is at any point in the story. D-Team is handled best overall, and is apparently the only one that series creator Kotaro Uchikoshi wrote himself in this game. C-Team can be a mixed bag, with the newly cynical Junpei bearing little resemblance to his 999 self a mere year later, and Akane surprisingly not particularly different from her 999 self in spite of putting on an act at many points in its story. Though the character models (and designs) are an improvement over VLR's, they still don't approach the quality of what one would see in Ace Attorney, and make it rather clear that the game was made on a budget. Completely ditching the VN approach in the game's presentation in favor of nothing but cutscenes was also a mistake, with the lack of insight that narration in such games usually provides (be it things like environmental observations or what that character is thinking or feeling) contributing to a more impersonal feel. Not as much stood out with the music, with a lot of tracks being reused material, but Carlos' theme was one of the more memorable new tracks. The puzzles struck a good balance in overall challenge. While the same variety of topics as 999 and VLR factor into conversations with ZTD, by and large they aren't as integral or relevant in the grand scheme by comparison. Even with amusing anagrams taken into account, including that of the game's title (Zero Time Dilemma = "Me? I'm Zero. I'm Delta."), the twist in ZTD felt cheap, and was very much poorly handled. The very existence of Delta according to how he came to be also makes no sense whatsoever, even next to how Akane was still alive for 999's events, and having planned to kill 6 billion people in hopes of maybe, possibly stopping someone who planned to kill 8 billion couldn't be more ridiculous. The disjointed nature of the fragment system also contributed to making the story less engaging. Many questions from VLR also go unanswered, be it the significance of the brother that Delta supposedly had in Left, from whom Dio was cloned, the reason neither hide nor hair was ever seen of characters such as Snake or Santa from 999 (the former's sister still missing after being abducted for the AB Project and the latter being an even stranger absence given his sister Akane's prominence throughout the trilogy), where Radical-6 came from in the first place (be it a natural virus or man-made), or the completely dropped plot points of Sigma's clone Kyle from VLR and the character referred to as "?". Also, the epilogues included are rather underwhelming and come across more as fan fiction than anything else.

With the way that the universe of ZE works firmly established by ZTD, the overall story wound up in an even worse place. With there not being one world that can be reshaped in various ways, but rather an infinite number of worlds that only keep growing, nothing feels particularly consequential. Death is not a tragedy when it occurs here, but merely an inconvenience. Seeing as neither Akane nor Sigma wound up actually accomplishing anything, having essentially danced to Delta's tune, and there was nothing significant that they could do in VLR's timeline based on how the universe in ZE works in spite of that game arguably having been poised to be the prologue to something grander and more important than what it actually amounted to being, I have no idea what the point was to any of it. Basically, Akane and Sigma wound up throwing away their entire lives by devoting decades to fixing things that were never meant to be fixed by them, with the only solution in ZE's universe being to be a SHIFTer so that you can run away and make a crappy reality someone else's problem, with even that last ditch effort with Akane's attempt at a Back to the Future allusion to try to make jumping between timelines a moral question falling flat in yielding an emotional response. It just feels all so empty, really.


I wound up writing far more than I intended to, still not quite having aired every single individual grievance. I have no idea if anyone will actually bother reading any of this, let alone sift through all of it, yet not venting wasn't doing me any good either way.

tl;dr: Zero Escape had a promising start, but suffered from not being planned as a trilogy from the very beginning, leading to a very lackluster overall story that's well below what should be acceptable standards for science-fiction/fantasy dealing in time travel and mechanics related to it.
 

dan2026

Member
I was going to play ZTD, then everyone said it was trash so I never did.
I don't know whether to give it ago now.
 

Strings

Member
I was going to play ZTD, then everyone said it was trash so I never did.
I don't know whether to give it ago now.

I still consider it a good to very good game, just nowhere near the standard set by the other two. Worth playing though, there are some stellar bits.

VLR -> 999 ->>>> Danganronpa -> ZTD.
 

Nottle

Member
I was going to play ZTD, then everyone said it was trash so I never did.
I don't know whether to give it ago now.
Ultimately disappointing, though the game has its moments. A couple of endings are fantastic. Characters are not nearly as strong as the previous games.

For reference I like VLR the most. Absolutely love its structure and characters.
 
Disagree that VLR is the beginning of the decline - I consider it the best game of all time.

We can surely all agree though that Carlos is the most pointless and irrelevant character in the franchise (yes, even more expendable than the 9th man). Was convinced he'd turn out to be a younger Brother, but alas.

Also I headcanon that Kyle is in Gab, and I was stunned that there was no twist regarding either of those characters in ZTD.

D-END 1 & 2 are some of the highest points in the franchise though.
 

Vanadium

Member
999 was pretty interesting. After that the story really isn't consistent enough to sustain itself over the next two. In most cases the "twists" are pretty random and a little silly.
 

LAA

Member
ZE 1/2 were masterpieces for me really. 3...yeah it went downhill. I mean the mysteries introduced within it itself were interesting, but when following the original game's mysteries and questions to be answered, was a far cry from what I was expecting and hoping for.

I think praise for ZE1/2 not so much talked about is how it made me care about multiple endings mainly. Before it, I never cared for them, as I only was interested in the canon ending, but ZE1 was very clever for me at the time, as for one, they all did technically happen, and two, each ending offered a part of the overall truth, and explained more about a certain character's background or other mysteries, which I think was handled very good in both ZE1 and 2.
 

NotLiquid

Member
ZTD didn't leave me as angry upon completing it as VLR did so I consider that an improvement at least.

Also had the only puzzles in the game I remotely enjoyed doing.
 
I hope we all agree that Phi is the best character in the series yeah?

VLR>999>>ZTD

Art style in ZTD really hurt it, wish they would have went back to VLR art style, or even 999's 2d look.

Yeah, same opinion here.

Coming from having replayed VLR recently, ZTD's look was really hard to get used to. Still loved it though.
 

J_Ark

Member
Another VLR > 999 >>>> ZTD

What Uchikoshi did with VLR was incredible, it's right the opposite that occurred with franchises like MGS or KH: added convolution without being a totally mess, it worked in so many levels... I remember when I first dove into the game and said to myself "you're not gonna fool me again, Uchikoshi" xD
 
I was one of the apparently few people that actually liked ZTD, but now that a lot of time has passed, I do understand why some people hated it. Personally I think it was a slightly disappointing end to the trilogy, but not the worst thing ever.

In terms of series-wide consistency, I did raise a few eyebrows. But I chalked it up to inconsistent development, especially with ZTD potentially not even being made if it weren't for the fans crying out for it.

As for the morale of the story, I was OK with it. The way I saw it, there was indeed a lot of unnecessary hand-waving with Radical-6, but if it wasn't for Akane and Sigma, there would be no timelines where the Earth wasn't nuked.

In that sense, the multiverse would be a very grim place. I mean, the epilogue of VLR already established that nothing is going to change for the people in their own universes--what they're doing is helping other versions of themselves.

As much as it was poorly handled, I also liked the idea of there being no absolutely good or bad choice. Forgot what the name of the concept was, but it was to do with switching train tracks to kill less people.

Shifting is just based on that concept. It has its severe downsides, but you're generally using it because it's the lesser of two evils. Or you could not use it and let everyone get blown up in the bunker. That is a valid ending.

Since I'm here, I will echo the sentiment about VLR Clover being quite possibly the worst returning character ever.
 

Wireframe

Member
Crazy how timely this thread is given I've just watched a replay of the whole series.

Given some time to let ZTD digest, I really believe it gets an unfair amount of hate. It's the weakest entry in the series for sure, but I found it immensely enjoyable.

I'm actually playing remember 11 at the moment and I can see how Uchikoshi developed his scenario writing. I highly recommend the infinity series for anyone who's not played them.
 

crimilde

Banned
Another VLR > 999 >>>> ZTD

What Uchikoshi did with VLR was incredible, it's right the opposite that occurred with franchises like MGS or KH: added convolution without being a totally mess, it worked in so many levels... I remember when I first dove into the game and said to myself "you're not gonna fool me again, Uchikoshi" xD

Going to echo this comment right here. VLR is one of my favourite games of all time.
 

wapplew

Member
ZTD is good, just not as good as first two, the twist was not earned and story loosing steam after 2 games. Puzzle still on par.
 
999 remains one of the most pleasant surprises I've ever had in this medium. I love the game, even if cheated to get through the boring puzzles, because of the great characters and twist.

VLR threw a lot more shit at the wall, but I'm surprised how much stuck for me. I acknowledge a lot of its flaws, especially fucking Alice and Clover, but they really had some moments with legitimate pathos and a lot of great character interactions. Some retcons and the cliffhanger ending though... Yeesh.

ZTD feels like it was made because a sequel had to be made. The story is a complete mess with uninteresting revelations and a completely inferior presentation. Uchikoshi deserves a lot of blame for the lack of quality writing, including the dialogue and plot. To this day, I have no idea why the game shoves, what, 13 of its puzzle rooms on you right away? Why are there even puzzle rooms in this game?

Danganronpa sucks.
 

convo

Member
I'd say the biggest problem i had was the inconsistent moral fiber of the characters, although you could say that jumping timelines meant we never actually meet the exact same character which would explain their wholly opposing moral actions in certain scenarios.
Akane basically tried to work to a better future in the first game with plenty of corpses so that in the end she could create a timeline where everyone(that she likes) survived. Delta is trying that but multiply the amount of people by a billion.Since it's infinite time-lines infinite many people died in both their plans so whenever Akane tried to be on the moral high ground on Delta's plan all i saw was complete hypocrisy.
What i feel is that these characters aren't owed a happy ending because of the good of humanity or some crap they spouted at the end of ZTD. I can do without the romantic view on all these time-pardox stories. I am totally fine with ending in a moral dead zone where nothing matters as long as they aknowledge it as such and stop believing in a higher good.
 

RRockman

Banned
ZTD might of been wonky but that ending sequence is fantastic and I would rank it over the other two games series for sure just because of that.


I mean it freakin deconstructed the whole idea of
save scumming for the better ending : the whole idea of the entire series! That little speech about sacrificing the lives of the innocent hit home because we've been doing that for three whole games. Akane screwed over the lives of at least two groups of people because she thought what she was doing was right, much as Delta had done.

At first I thought it was lame to give Delta a "reason" to be evil but I learned to tolerate it because the whole scenario brought one of the series main themes to a head. "Does the end justify the means?" How many people's lives have you effectively ruined or killed in pursuit of a chance at saving your own world over the series? Does ruining several doomed timelines make it ok? Giving Carlos the gun and ending before he fires made for a fun ending, since the answer to that question ultimately lies with you.

While I wish Akane was given the focus so we can see her reaction to being a pawn in a bigger game I could definitely live with this ending.
 

Filter

Member
I played 999 when it came out but can hardly remember it, beyond the basic setting and puzzle mechanics.

But I played VLR on 3DS last year. I wouldn't normally spend as much time on that sort of game as I did, but I played it on the morning bus ride to work and it became a bit of a ritual. It's a perfect bus game because you can read a bit, look out the window while thinking about a puzzle and close the 3DS at any time. I spent some serious time on it, and completed all the timelines. I must have spent more than 50 hours on it (some of those puzzles are pretty diabolical).

I think I burned through the first timeline and liked it, but then finding out you could replay it and work through different timelines actually felt like a bit of a chore for a little while, until the story hooks started to appear. Mysteries popping up and plot twists changing the theories I'd come up with, made the game become addictive.

I don't know if I'd play the third game now though, I no longer catch the bus.

I do have one question though, what the hell are those things on Quark's hat? Metal bricks? Is that to stop Quark bouncing too high in the micro gravity?
 

convo

Member
ZTD might of been wonky but that ending sequence is fantastic and I would rank it over the other two games series for sure just because of that.


I mean it freakin deconstructed the whole idea of
save scumming for the better ending : the whole idea of the entire series! That little speech about sacrificing the lives of the innocent hit home because we've been doing that for three whole games. Akane screwed over the lives of at least two groups of people because she thought what she was doing was right, much as Delta had done.

At first I thought it was lame to give Delta a "reason" to be evil but I learned to tolerate it because the whole scenario brought one of the series main themes to a head. "Does the end justify the means?" How many people's lives have you effectively ruined or killed in pursuit of a chance at saving your own world over the series?

My personal opinion on that is that they strive for something even less just.
Everyone works towards a new timeline where everything is ok and screw over whatever bad scenario they don't like so they can pursue something that has nothing to do with their current timeline. Akane and the others Shifting like no one cares shows how little ground they have to stand on when it comes to moral battles
I think Delta was the most "keeping it real" person in the series and maybe Jumpy in the VLR ending. I also think that Akane was totally pranking on everyone with Schroedingers Cat at the end of VLR just to make them feel at least a bit hopeful when nothing was gonna happen.
 
ZTD might of been wonky but that ending sequence is fantastic and I would rank it over the other two games series for sure just because of that.


I mean it freakin deconstructed the whole idea of
save scumming for the better ending : the whole idea of the entire series! That little speech about sacrificing the lives of the innocent hit home because we've been doing that for three whole games. Akane screwed over the lives of at least two groups of people because she thought what she was doing was right, much as Delta had done.

At first I thought it was lame to give Delta a "reason" to be evil but I learned to tolerate it because the whole scenario brought one of the series main themes to a head. "Does the end justify the means?" How many people's lives have you effectively ruined or killed in pursuit of a chance at saving your own world over the series? Does ruining several doomed timelines make it ok? Giving Carlos the gun and ending before he fires made for a fun ending, since the answer to that question ultimately lies with you.

While I wish Akane was given the focus so we can see her reaction to being a pawn in a bigger game I could definitely live with this ending.

I also liked that Delta was essentially the player, who did all this crazy shit because he had to know dammit.
 

MikeBison

Member
Echo others in that ZTD has some disappointment attached for me, but overall and excellent game in a fantastic series.

VLR>999>ZTD

But they're all great.
 
ZTD damages the overall love & enthusiasm I had for the series, but still, 999 and VLR were wonderful moments in game playing time for me.
 
999 is one of the best DS games and a ridiculously amazing game, totally sucked me in like no other game did that year.

VLR was disappointing, and had like none of the atmosphere for 999, and one of the worst teaser ass endings in gaming, but it was still pretty damn good.

ZTD was unredeemable trash.

I'd put DR1 above VLR, and 2 around VLR level. All 3 are well well well well well below 999 though.

The series was a steep ass downhill jam.
 

JoeFu

Banned
I have yet to finish ZTD, which is crazy because I binged the crap of out the respective games before it. Something about the last game just didn't grab me and I really don't feel like finishing it.

I guess I'm not alone though since so many people are calling ZTD trash lol.
 

ShyMel

Member
I absolutely love 999 and while I think VLR's twist of Sigma is young Sigma's mind in old Sigma's body relies on the things mentioned in the OP, I still think it's a great game. ZTD however was one of the most disappointing sequels to me. Watching a
former abused/stalked woman have a breakdown then have sex with the person she just took her frustration out on (who is a 67 year old in his 22 year old body)
was the final thing that just took any enjoyment out of the game. Also I don't think Phi was
originally intended to be Sigma's daughter when they were working on VLR,
because that would just make some of the dialog they knowingly gave to Sigma really weird.
 

convo

Member
My proudest achievement on this website is calling that mind-controlling shit from remembering one obscure library conversation in the original 999. I fully expected it to happen in VLR and one of my theories at the time was that radical 6 enabled some shadowy guy to mind control humanity into suicide. It would have been pretty cool. But it did return for ZTD and i sure showed everyone in the spoiler thread that i was ahead of an entire community of people speculating and thinking about the game.
 

Vibed

Member
999 is one of the best DS games and a ridiculously amazing game, totally sucked me in like no other game did that year.

VLR was disappointing, and had like none of the atmosphere for 999, and one of the worst teaser ass endings in gaming, but it was still pretty damn good.

ZTD was unredeemable trash.

I'd put DR1 above VLR, and 2 around VLR level. All 3 are well well well well well below 999 though.

The series was a steep ass downhill jam.

Basically my opinion, despite enjoying ZTD, however I've yet to play Danganronpa.

Man, I wish Uchikoshi had to stuck to good original plan instead of deviating into the shit we got. 3 writers and the whole fragment system was knowingly shooting himself in the foot.
 

Korigama

Member
One other complaint that I forgot to include earlier, yet is ultimately irrelevant now given how I look at the series as a whole: how VLR ditched the horror and tension of 999 since Spike Chunsoft concluded Japanese consumers didn't buy the first game because it was too scary, leading them to pander to their home market through toning down the violence and foreboding atmosphere significantly, while also trying to rope in the Danganronpa crowd with the character design sensibilities and the inclusion of a Monokuma stand-in through Zero III (though I did actually like him as an antagonist, and thought that the performance of English Zero III stole the show). All this led to was VLR selling even less than 999 in Japan in spite of launching on two platforms, along with the third game being delayed indefinitely and nearly canceled (the hiatus being just long enough for Uchikoshi to revise his original plans for Vol. 3, leading us to get ZTD).

Of course, they overcompensated with ZTD by making it the most over-the-top in the series with its violence, so eh...
 
ZTD was good but flawed. Having a conclusion did seem to put a damper on my unabashed love for the series since a lot of mysteries that I'd wondered about were solved.
 
I marathoned the series last summer, playing each game on the best release platform:
999 on DS
VLR on Vita
ZTD on PC.

I went in knowing nothing other than the fact that knowing the events of 999 make VLR important, and I was blown the fuck away by 999. The presentation, and atmosphere (good sound design goes a long way, even if it's compressed to hell like 999), story, etc. The ending though, the ending is what got me. When you have to
flip the DS, and the second screen narration presented as actual dialogue
sold the idea of a game developed for a system, and that all other versions could never hold a candle to it.

VLR... felt like a slog. As a point n click adventure game fan, the puzzles were bullshit insanity. Rolling dice into slots, finding the one spot that the game will let you use an item on despite the thing you're supposed to use it on being the whole god damn screen, etc. The gameplay updates were fantastic however. Not having to replay, or fast forward through sections already seen, but jump right to the decision point, as well as having the multiple ending concept reach its natural conclusion: having you see every ending in order to unlock other endings. While 999 had like... 6, with 4 of those being duplicated over 12 possible outcomes, you could theoretically play the game again and get the same ending. Not a great way of showing that endings matter. By having the player go through the good and bad endings for each branch in order to unlock other branches, it solves the problem of players blindly going through the game. I did like the story, but the ending just soiled it for me. It ramps up the events of ZTD so much that I was excited to see what would happen... and nothing. Game ends, fuck you. But it solidifies what made the first two games awesome to me: the twists play fair. The game drops hints, whether it be (999)
The obtuse narration, and fever
, or (VLR)
Characters calling you old man, newspaper clippings, etc
throughout the game that you can go back to and feel like you weren't being jerked around for the reveal. It plays fair, it establishes it's own rules, and it's up to you to be attentive to figure them out in advance.

ZTD is a really great first 70% of a game. Puzzles are solid, story is solid, the tone is fucked up in the way that you would want a Zero Escape game, animation and character models were Jank City, but you had a solid idea of a presentation. When the main twist is revealed is when it went to shit. Q-Team was an indication of a lower quality this time around, but unlike the previous games, there's little to no hints for the twist presented to you. The only thing people were ever able to pull out after analysing the game was a story about a test with
"a man in a wheelchair"
, but they never act as though the man is there with them. However, I do have to congratulate ZTD on making the branching story/multiple ending mechanic something entirely new. It feels like a logical evolution, breaking up each piece into 30 minute chunks so that you don't know when or where the characters are. Instead of having players play through the game over and over, players are given sections all throughout the entire game, and it's up to them to keep notes, write down passwords, figure out clues, and bring them back to sections they've seen. The player never sees the same scene more than 2-3 times, unless it's one of the sections determined with RNG, unlike the previous games where going through the previous sections helped to pad it out.

To this day I recommend people play the series, but it really fell flat on it's face in the end there. The design is solid, the story is not.
 

AniHawk

Member
i cannot recommend that anyone continue the series after 999.

999 works as a standalone game, and it works only on the ds/3ds. it's remarkably well-made and even things that feel like a slog have meaning. vlr adding the ability to skip between stories is built into the narrative, but it loses the tension. by the time we're into ztd, it's completely gone.

vlr is a followup that dared to be the sequel to something that is pretty much a classic. it's back to the future part ii to 999's back to the future. not bad, and fairly entertaining, but loses quite a bit of what made the first thing so special.

ztd is a huge turd. basically everything about it is a massive disappointment, from how it resolves nothing in the series, to the direction, models, voice acting, writing, game design - the list goes on. it even makes vlr pointless, and that sucks since it's a game that ends on a cliffhanger. i recommend everyone avoid it.
 
well written op, with which i mostly agree (tho i'm pretty sure i enjoyed both the second & third games even less than you :) )...

Zero Escape had a promising start, but suffered from not being planned as a trilogy from the very beginning, leading to a very lackluster overall story that's well below what should be acceptable standards for science-fiction/fantasy dealing in time travel and mechanics related to it.

the problem from the get-go. 999 was an incredibly clever little game, but pretty obviously not put together in such a way as to easily lead to 2 sequels. wish they'd simply gone with new, unconnected stories, & really hoping the life is strange folks do so, as well...
 

Santar

Member
I agree that 999 is absolutely the best game in the series.
It had a eerie and fascinating almost Battle Royale like premise and never got too convoluted or bogged down with all kinds of timelines like the sequels. It was a gripping experience with engaging characters and story with good puzzles. One of my favorite Visual Novels. It really didn't need a sequel.

Virtue's Last Reward never quite clicked with me the same way as the original. I enjoyed it, but the tone just felt different from 999. The sparse primitive 3d art didn't help either. The environments just felt so lifeless and sterile and devoid of character. I just felt a little disconnected from all of it in a way.

I did enjoy some of the plot and the twists but it took a long time getting there and felt drawn out.
I also found the puzzles way too obtuse and difficult, they became more like Layton esque braintwisters instead of 999's more inventory and object puzzles.

Zero Time Dilemma I ended up enjoying quite a bit, though I felt some of the plot just felt too cliche and melodramatic (the whole origin of Phi especially comes to mind).
The puzzles were better than in VLR I felt, once again going back to the less Layton like style of the first game.
The timeline jumping did go a bit overboard though I felt with everybody just jumping everywhere all like it was nothing, it just lessened the stakes and the impact of it all.
Still enjoyed it more than VLR as it flowed much better and was far better paced.

They should've probably just made the sequels completely standalone like an anthology and just bear the Zero Escape title to show what type of gameplay players could expect.
 
I will say that I thought ZTD has a really underrated soundtrack when put against the first two. If anything was consistent throughout the series, it was the music. I really liked the concept art for ZTD and some of the scenarios moments were pretty damn good. VLR is still my favourite though, with 999 second.

Really seems bizarre to me how Uchikoshi ended VLR on such a cliffhanger saying there wasn't money or support from Spike Chunsoft to make a follow up game, to which fans rallied behind him to get it made, only to ignore said cliffhanger for ZTD, retcon stuff and then go "well, that didn't happen or really matter, sorry". Like, I still don't what was going on there. :/
 
I definitely consider 999 as a standalone is a masterpiece. However part of that is because I played it without basically knowing a thing about it. That completely elevated the experience. I played it because I was a fan of room-escape puzzles. The moment I got my first ending, it was so unexpected and it really shocked me. The way the story was revealed just blew me away.

The entire trilogy is pretty good. Overall the writing can get a bit campy, but it's part of the charm. I enjoyed VLR a lot, and ZTD too even though it's the worst in the series. VLR had some amazing moments. ZTD got really 'cringy' at parts but I was also amused.

I do have to say I'm a big fan of the puzzles in these games. ZTD has some really fun ones, all games do! Despite the games wanting to get into more visual novels, I actually often find myself getting worn out from playing them if they don't have more interactive elements like the puzzles in Zero Escape.
 
I've never got the hate for ZTD on here. I really enjoyed it and thinking about some of the stuff in there actually makes me want to play it again sometime. The non-linear structure, which I was hesitant towards at first, ended up working REALLY well and made the mystery all the deeper and more captivating as you're trying to work out what the hell is going on. I also really loved the big twist, especially when you go back and realize all the foreshadowing pointing at it. In some ways it did feel like a clone of VLR's big twist, but different enough so as to not be the exact same thing. It is true that the ending was a bit of a let down, but I think I'm so used to bad endings at this point I've come to expect it. The problem with series like this is they end up with so many different plot points that tying everything together into one ending is just a monumentally difficult task.

At the same time, I also feel like the praise 999 gets is maybe a bit overdone. It's a good game yes, but not without its faults. I think the strongest thing it has going for it is that it's just much more grounded than either VLR or ZTD, though the first half or so of ZTD does attempt to recoup some of that. Apparently the 999 remake does help to sand down some of the rough edges such as adding a flowchart, so I am interested in buying it on Steam eventually to replay it and VLR.

VLR is actually probably my least favorite of the three, but it's the one I'm most in need of replaying. The story of 999 stands out strong in my head because I hadn't played anything like it before while I only played ZTD like a year ago so I can still remember most of its plot. I remember I was captivated by the plot of VLR like the others, but it just... Didn't feel right to me. I think it was the shift in tone from a more grounded Western style to trying to incorporate more elements Japanese would like, and in doing so it lose much of what I liked about 999. Still, a very good game and I love how the timeline jumping ended up being incorporated into the story and not just a gameplay thing.
 

kandi

Neo Member
It always takes me ages to play through the Zero Escape games. They are very intense and extremely good but after achieving a "real" end I am kinda done for a couple of weeks or even months. Took me about half a year for 999. And I'm currently, probably for the next year, on VLR and so far they seem even in terms of quality.

999 was like a really, really good movie and VLR like a really, really good TV Show because of it's length.
 
I played 999 for its style and the premise of the story looked so promising but in the end I hated the story so much and hated even more that they made me play it two times through it to see the ending, that's fucked up.
 
Playing through this series quickly soured me on Uchikoshi as a scenario writer. He recycles so many similar plot points between his games that it really starts to wear thin, and the increasingly lackluster scripts only exacerbate the issues. I feel whichever of his games you play first will probably be your favorite and for most people in the west that was 999.
 
Zero Time Dilemma is pretty much a shaggy dog story. Sure, from the end of VLR to the end of ZTD, the pieces on the chessboard have been moved around, but the situation as a whole hasn't changed. VLR ends with the characters motivated to stop a terrorist from wiping out the majority of the human population. ZTD ends with... the characters motivated to stop a terrorist from wiping out the majority of the human population. It just feels like you're running in place, and considering the amazing set up in VLR that makes you think the next game will be an epic conclusion to the trilogy, that makes ZTD more than a little disappointing.

The other problem is that the Decision Game kind of stinks! Depending on how you play, the non-linear fragments will end up spoiling you on things that would be surprising otherwise. I knew about Junpei's frozen head long before that scene ever actually happened for me, for example. It also leads to wacky pacing with the escape rooms, since you end up going through all the intro to the story, then you do the majority of puzzles, and then it gets heavy on the story at the end and there's no great final puzzle like the Q Room.

Despite all that, I love the Zero Escape trilogy and even enjoyed ZTD in the moment of playing it. I do have to wonder how much was changed of the story during the delay of ZTD though.
 

Pics_nao

Member
VLR >>>>>>>> 999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ZTD

VLR was such a massive mind fuck when I played it. ZTD just let me down on so many levels. 999 is cool tho
 

Gale007

Member
999 is one of the best DS games and a ridiculously amazing game, totally sucked me in like no other game did that year.

VLR was disappointing, and had like none of the atmosphere for 999, and one of the worst teaser ass endings in gaming, but it was still pretty damn good.

ZTD was unredeemable trash.

I'd put DR1 above VLR, and 2 around VLR level. All 3 are well well well well well below 999 though.

The series was a steep ass downhill jam.

Same for me, I played 999, VLR, and ZTD for the first time around last year and felt like VLR. While I felt it was a solid game and improved on the flow of 999 (adding in the choice tree), I was very disappointed with the story, atmosphere, tone, revelations, conclusion in VLR compared to 999. That being said ZTD actively focused on trying to capture a different audience, so I'm happy they succeeded and others have found a game they love the same way I love 999.
 
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