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[godhandiscen]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18418938&postcount=57


Like clockwork :lol

:lol this industry is so predictable sometimes.

 

[gogojira]

While I can see where he's coming from and I definitely agree, it's not like Nintendo always respected that "rule" of his...I didn't see many fundamental changes from NES to SNES, or GBC to GBA for example...


E3 2010 will be a major disappointment if all they have to show is a Wii with HD support.

I was merely joking. It'll be a WiiHD with a controller that mimics Sony's Wand that mimics the Wii wand.

Or really, I was just joking and have no expectations of E3 2010. As is usual, I've got a feeling that nobody will know what Nintendo is going to unveil even moments before the big conference.

 

[Azure J]

Hmm, I understand the logic behind Wii 2 and have for some time, but something about this article makes me believe that Nintendo is trying a bit too hard to reinvent the wheel. One would hope that in the hopes of making the next system more capable, they are able to cover the obvious things which are more pronounced this gen (better graphics capabilities, a more 2009/2010 capable online & social infrastructure) while progressing forward with their next innovation or means to bring added capability to their system.

 

[tenritsu]

Examples?
Give me examples of third party Wii games that didn't sell well that should have.




No, because developers would have to develop two versions of the game. An HD version and an SD version.

I mean, a recent example, dead space extraction didn't do so hot, but then again, they didn't advertise for it at all. Which, I guess, proves the point that if you're not going to put full effort into making your game great + advertising it, it's not gonna sell.

 

[Anerythristic]

Examples?
Give me examples of third party Wii games that didn't sell well that should have.

I would like examples of titles you would like to see on the Wii. The fact remains that major third party releases i.e. the holiday tentpoles are just not coming, I don't think they ever will at this point.

Edit: and another thing, I got my Wii midnight at launch, I pre ordered the machine,I wanted it that much, why does it seem like gamers have to respect it. I bought it for first party games, especially for Wii Sports.

 

[gerg]

This goes against anything Miyamoto and Iwata said about the next Wii. Miyamoto said that they've 'shaken up' the market and wouldn't change the interface, only improve it and make it more cost effective.

Really?

Because I'm pretty sure that Iwata has recently stated that a lot of their moves are made by what they can't do (as in, price cuts made when software can't sell hardware, and so on). I'm not sure about anything that Miyamoto has said, and I don't find any definite contradictions within Reggie's own words. Am I misreading him?

I mean, a recent example, dead space extraction didn't do so hot, but then again, they didn't advertise for it at all. Which, I guess, proves the point that if you're not going to put full effort into making your game great + advertising it, it's not gonna sell.

Dead Space Extraction is certainly a good, solid game, but I don't think it really counts as a strong effort on EA's part.

 

[[Nintex]]

Hmm, I understand the logic behind Wii 2 and have for some time, but something about this article makes me believe that Nintendo is trying a bit too hard to reinvent the wheel. One would hope that in the hopes of making the next system more capable, they are able to cover the obvious things which are more pronounced this gen (better graphics capabilities, a more 2009/2010 capable online & social infrastructure) while progressing forward with their next innovation or means to bring added capability to their system.

NCL has been pretty reasonable about those issues, only Reggie is still talking like it's 2006.

 

[farnham]

anyway

i dont see thirdparties complaining because halo 3 or uncharted 2 is comming out on the respective platform. the whole nintendo platforms are for nintendofans only argument is bullshit.. look at the ds, the snes and all the other so called successful nintendo consoles..

sure nintendo games sold well.. but thirdparty games did also.. why..? because there was actual effort put into those games..

now look at a game like final fantasy 6 or dragon quest 9

and compare the marketing money, development cost, buzz in the media with the major wii third party titles.. i think its no wonder that third party titles "dont sell on wii" (which isnt true either since wii is apparently the platform with the most 3rd party title sales since 2008)

I mean, a recent example, dead space extraction didn't do so hot, but then again, they didn't advertise for it at all. Which, I guess, proves the point that if you're not going to put full effort into making your game great + advertising it, it's not gonna sell.

thats the point. compare the advertisement marketing money to titles like modern warfare 2, dragon quest 9 etc

i can only think of one game that actually had such an marketing campaign on wii and that is monster hunter 3

 

[AceBandage]

I would like examples of titles you would like to see on the Wii. The fact remains that major third party releases i.e. the holiday tentpoles are just not coming, I don't think they ever will at this point.

How about a sequel to Resident Evil 4. Or perhaps an Wii specific FPS from a studio known for good FPS games.
It's pretty simple.
Both of these games would sell well on the Wii.
And yes, the "fact" remains that the Wii won't be seeing these games, but it's not because there's no market.

 

[Anerythristic]

How about a sequel to Resident Evil 4. Or perhaps an Wii specific FPS from a studio known for good FPS games.
It's pretty simple.
Both of these games would sell well on the Wii.
And yes, the "fact" remains that the Wii won't be seeing these games, but it's not because there's no market.

I agree with you.

 

[gerg]

NCL has been pretty reasonable about those issues, only Reggie is still talking like it's 2006.

Where is Reggie being controversial or unreasonable about this?

I just don't see it.

In fact, this seems like exactly the same kind of message that Iwata sends all the time.

 

[Azure J]

NCL has been pretty reasonable about those issues, only Reggie is still talking like it's 2006.

Honestly, this coming after most of the recent interviews with Shigeru & Iwata makes my head itch. Who's doing what? Which side do we believe in? :lol

 

[gamergirly]

Hmm, I understand the logic behind Wii 2 and have for some time, but something about this article makes me believe that Nintendo is trying a bit too hard to reinvent the wheel. One would hope that in the hopes of making the next system more capable, they are able to cover the obvious things which are more pronounced this gen (better graphics capabilities, a more 2009/2010 capable online & social infrastructure) while progressing forward with their next innovation or means to bring added capability to their system.

It does make you wonder if Wii's successor will be backwards compatible with the Wii. If they change it up too much they may still be successful. But how much change is needed to move Wii owners to the next system and keep the evolution visionary intact?

 

[elrechazado]

Most western devs simply want to push tech (mainly because they mostly came from a PC development background) and care more about pushing technical boundaries than new forms of gameplay.

This fits in with most publishers, most of which are risk averse and are unwilling to take a chance with consoles outside of their comfort zone (moneyhats help too!)

Not shockingly, the gaming market wants this as well, whether or not you agree, it's a fact.

 

[AceBandage]

Honestly, this coming after most of the recent interviews with Shigeru & Iwata makes my head itch. Who's doing what? Which side do we believe in? :lol

Iwata. Reggie is just a talking head at this point. He only knows what Nintendo of Japan tells him.

Not shockingly, the gaming market wants this as well, whether or not you agree, it's a fact.

You mean the shrinking market that is basically just buying a few well known sequels, outside of games that have huge marketing pushes?
Yeah, that's great.

 

[TunaLover]

I don't think the two complaints are the same.

Reggie isn't stating that third-parties should release games that don't or won't sell, as is the case with the titles it has refused to publish itself. He is stating that these third-party games would sell. Of course, this is a claim which may be debatable on its own terms, but I don't think he is being much of a hypocrite to make it.

Could we say that the whole point to get those third party titles on board is to engross Wii overall library? Look

'We have a 22-million unit installed base. We have a very diverse audience…

Why could he to be interested in third party missed opportunities if it wasn't for a mutual benefit? Diversity, it's really hard try to build it, if your own company doesn't have faith in a more wide library. Sure, probably more of those titles will only perform in a niche form, but I fail to understand how it's a bad thing, if you're worried about diversity, and entiece third parties to bring different content, profit should be a fair price to pay -I'm exagerating there, because voice localization is already there- , again in the case those titles bomb really hard.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Dead Space Extraction is certainly a good, solid game, but I don't think it really counts as a strong effort on EA's part.

I agree, but when someone says "Dead Space Extraction didn't do too hot" they don't mean "Dead Space Extraction didn't do Assassin's Creed numbers", they mean "Dead Space Extraction didn't do Velvet Assassin numbers", and that /is/ an issue.

 

[H_Prestige]

This is the risk nintendo took with their system in 2006. Since major publishers started projects on 360/ps3 (and look like they will continue to do so), they can't just port them to the wii without essentially remaking it from scratch. I can't say it's hurting them financially, but by releasing a gamecube with more RAM, they were able to keep the costs extremely low and produce a very quiet, small, stable, energy efficient console all for $250 when their competitors were over $400. If Nintendo wanted the third party action ps3/360 get, they could have made a powerful, $400+ beast of a machine in 2006, but who's to say that system would be at a 22 million install base right now? Maybe the Wii business would only be as profitable as the xbox or ps3 businesses in that case.

 

[SecretBonusPoint]

I will be very interested to see how big a push NOA gives Monster Hunter 3 when it releases. Capcom is already taking a loss on not charging for online, will Nintendo step up and mass-market their biggest 3rd party coup?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I like how, even when the OP includes the interviewer asking the question, people still insist Reggie called a press conference to call third parties doo-doo heads.

 

[AceBandage]

This is the risk nintendo took with their system in 2006. Since major publishers started projects on 360/ps3, they can't just port them to the wii without essentially remaking it from scratch. I can't say it's hurting them financially, but by releasing a gamecube with more RAM, they were able to keep the costs extremely low and produce a very quiet, small, stable, energy efficient console all for $250. If Nintendo wanted the third party action ps3/360 get, they could have made a powerful, $400+ beast of a machine in 2006, but who's to say that system would be at a 22 million install base right now? Maybe the Wii business would only be as profitable as the xbox or ps3 businesses in that case.

A $400 Nintendo console in 2006 would have been suicide.
Developers would still snub it and people wouldn't buy it.

 

[elrechazado]

Iwata. Reggie is just a talking head at this point. He only knows what Nintendo of Japan tells him.




You mean the shrinking market that is basically just buying a few well known sequels, outside of games that have huge marketing pushes?
Yeah, that's great.

Yeah, ok. You nintendo fans really kill me sometimes.

Not that I'm any less guilty, when I look at my wii, wii fit, wii play, 4 motion Plus controllers and all of the games on my wall.

 

[HylianScribe]

Missing the point? Well, here's how I see it...

There will never be a Wii HD. Why? Because Wii is strongest with a demographic that doesn't care or need HD. Wii does best with an audience that prefers a certain type of experience, and if these changes theorist suggest should happen do transpire for Wii, it might kill off the largest consumer support base for the platform at the cost of appeasing a smaller one. That makes zero business sense.

If anything, Nintendo should continue to support the Wii for as long as it can, only make new models that make sense for the core demographic (core as in who the system most appeals to, not the "core" gamer term everyone throws around). What they should do to recapture the consumers they've lost or haven't appealed to yet (those that are 360/PS3/PC owners only) is have an HD ready system that is NOT called Wii and is branded as something else and is aimed solely at the demographic. That way Wii continues making millions for Nintendo with its huge market, and Nintendo can begin to tap into the the 360/PS3/PC market. Also, those who are weened on Wii and want to graduate to something more will have a Nintendo-option rather than defecting to a competitor.

And as always, DS (and its eventual successor) is there to capture the portable market. There are those "three pillars" Iwata talked so much about before. In fanboy talk, a console for casuals, a console for hardcore gamers, and a portable device for everyone in general. But again, this new HD console should have no associate with the Wii name, to avoid confusion with consumers and risking alienating them, and so the market they're going after doesn't associate it with "casual".

 

[[Nintex]]

Where is Reggie being controversial or unreasonable about this?

I just don't see it.

In fact, this seems like exactly the same kind of message that Iwata sends all the time.

Iwata did an investors QA. Usually he's the one answering the questions but he brought along Miyamoto and Genyo Takeda to talk about the software and hardware. Takeda said that HD is a natural evolution and that it's certainly something that his R&D department is looking at. Miyamoto said that it makes no sense to build Wii Fit in HD but that Pikmin could benefit from it. Iwata said that sales of HDTV's had improved and Nintendo former statement: "Once HD sets are widespread we'll join in!" still stands.

 

[rollingstart]

I like how, even when the OP includes the interviewer asking the question, people still insist Reggie called a press conference to call third parties doo-doo heads.

Reggie is a large man who worked at Pizza Hut; I think can read the subtext here.

 

[Denzar]

The way we at Nintendo do things is, you know, when we will move to a new generation, it's because there are some fundamental things the [current] console cannot do.

So what did the GameCube do that the PS2 couldn't do back then?

 

[Penguin]

Not shockingly, the gaming market wants this as well, whether or not you agree, it's a fact.

Wouldn't the fact that the Wii has a bigger install base than PS3/360 combined... tell us the industry doesn't want it.. or doesn't care

 

[elrechazado]

So what did the GameCube do that the PS2 couldn't do back then?

Fit in a shoebox?

 

[cooltrainer]

Nintendo has demonstrated over and over again that it simply doesn't need third parties to be successful. Nintendo is going to do what is best for its own business and its approach to game development.

 

[farnham]

This is the risk nintendo took with their system in 2006. Since major publishers started projects on 360/ps3 (and look like they will continue to do so), they can't just port them to the wii without essentially remaking it from scratch. I can't say it's hurting them financially, but by releasing a gamecube with more RAM, they were able to keep the costs extremely low and produce a very quiet, small, stable, energy efficient console all for $250 when their competitors were over $400. If Nintendo wanted the third party action ps3/360 get, they could have made a powerful, $400+ beast of a machine in 2006, but who's to say that system would be at a 22 million install base right now? Maybe the Wii business would only be as profitable as the xbox or ps3 businesses in that case.

yeah thats the point.. nintendo would have never received any third party support with an HD system.. last gen when ps2, gc and xbox were pretty much equals only ea, activision and ubisoft published games on all three platforms.... many other developers and publishers just didnt care

 

[Cromat]

IMO, it's not that developers can't create games for the Wii, and it's not that developers don't know how to make a good successful Wii game, and it's not that they think that it won't be financially-viable.

It's that they DON'T WANT to create games for the Wii, because they simply want to create HD games. Developers themselves (at least most of them) are part of the 18-30, male, cutting-edge technology demographics. They simply don't want to make Wii games because they feel their games would be better on the HD consoles (not getting into the argument if they are right or wrong about that), and they do it despite having good reasons to make games for the Wii.

 

[gerg]

Could we say that the whole point to get those third party titles on board is to engross Wii overall library? Look

...

Why could he to interested in third party sales if it wasn't for a mutual benefit? Diversity, it's really hard try to build it, if your own company doesn't have faith in a more wide library. Sure, probably more of those titles will only perform in a niche form, but I fail to understand how it's a bad thing, if you're worried about diversity, and entiece third parties to bring different content, profit should be a fair price to pay, again in the case those titles bomb hard.

I'm not saying that building diversity is a bad thing.

I just don't see how one can do it with titles that would, by definition, be of interest to only a small audience (hence "niche"). The issue is compounded if we believe that the people likely to want to buy these niche games would already own a Wii regardless, and thus their release would do nothing to diversify the Wii's audience.

If you want to criticise Nintendo for not building diversity, attack them for not releasing major titles aimed at the audiences which they want to (or should want to) attack, a criticism that may be debated on its own terms.

I agree, but when someone says "Dead Space Extraction didn't do too hot" they don't mean "Dead Space Extraction didn't do Assassin's Creed numbers", they mean "Dead Space Extraction didn't do Velvet Assassin numbers", and that /is/ an issue.

Yeah. It doesn't speak well of the light-gun genre, at least.

Iwata did an investors QA. Usually he's the one answering the questions but he brought along Miyamoto and Genyo Takeda to talk about the software and hardware. Takeda said that HD is a natural evolution and that it's certainly something that his R&D department is looking at. Miyamoto said that it makes no sense to build Wii Fit in HD but that Pikmin could benefit from it. Iwata said that sales of HDTV's had improved and Nintendo former statement: "Once HD sets are widespread we'll join in!" still stands.

And none of this seems contradictory with what Reggie said.

Reggie has commented on the motivations for releasing a new console, the nature of which WiiHD rumours do not understand. The comments you highlight by Iwata, Miyamoto and Takeda seem to refer only to what they will do once they have decided to launch a new console. The two statements compliment each other.

 

[H_Prestige]

A $400 Nintendo console in 2006 would have been suicide.
Developers would still snub it and people wouldn't buy it.

Well, that's the only way it would be getting 360 ports the same way ps3 does, which was a $500 machine at launch. Much of the wii's success is predicated on it being a really cheap, repackaged gamecube.

 

[AceBandage]

IMO, it's not that developers can't create games for the Wii, and it's not that developers don't know how to make a good successful Wii game, and it's not that they think that it won't be financially-viable.

It's that they DON'T WANT to create games for the Wii, because they simply want to create HD games. Developers themselves (at least most of them) are part of the 18-30, male, cutting-edge technology demographics. They simply don't want to make Wii games because they feel their games would be better on the HD consoles (not getting into the argument if they are right or wrong about that), and they do it despite having good reasons to make games for the Wii.

Then why do they continually make them sub-HD?

 

[Smiles and Cries]

How much of the 3rd party problem is the fear of Nintendo Brand Software like Mario and Zelda? It seems games like RE5 would still sell regardless of a Mario title launch on the same day. Still I have to wonder if 3rd Parties just fear Nintendo software period

 

[farnham]

Iwata did an investors QA. Usually he's the one answering the questions but he brought along Miyamoto and Genyo Takeda to talk about the software and hardware. Takeda said that HD is a natural evolution and that it's certainly something that his R&D department is looking at. Miyamoto said that it makes no sense to build Wii Fit in HD but that Pikmin could benefit from it. Iwata said that sales of HDTV's had improved and Nintendo former statement: "Once HD sets are widespread we'll join in!" still stands.

but why move to next gen already when they are on top of things.. abandoning a large userbase after just 3 or so years doesnt seem to make much sense at all..

How much of the 3rd party problem is the fear of Nintendo Brand Software like Mario and Zelda? It seems games like RE5 would still sell regardless of a Mario title launch on the same day. Still I have to wonder if 3rd Parties just fear Nintendo software period

i think that is a bogus argument.. third party titles have competitors on other platforms too.. like halo3, gears of war, god of war or uncharted

 

[ksamedi]

I think third parties failed miserably with the Wii. It was THE hot item and probably still will be for many years to come yet their best teams are developing exclusively for other platforms. Nintendo isn't big enough to support every type of gamer on the Wii, third parties had to fill the gap but they didn't and lost a couple of years of good profit that could've been made.

 

[Frencherman]

I think third parties failed miserably with the Wii. It was THE hot item and probably still will be for many years to come yet their best teams are developing exclusively for other platforms. Nintendo isn't big enough to support every type of gamer on the Wii, third parties had to fill the gap but they didn't and lost a couple of years of good profit that could've been made.

Maybe true, but you will never know what would have happened

By the way, do I read some kind of frustration regarding the part where Reggie talks about Third-Party efforts?

 

[elrechazado]

Wouldn't the fact that the Wii has a bigger install base than PS3/360 combined... tell us the industry doesn't want it.. or doesn't care

The millions of people setting records by buying hyped up 3d intensive games that can't exist on the wii seems to suggest that some people care. You people ignoring things like halo and MW2 and whatnot aren't really scraping together much credibility for your arguments.

 

[Denzar]

Fit in a shoebox?

My PS2 fit in a shoebox.


I have really big feet.

 

[farnham]

The millions of people setting records by buying hyped up 3d intensive games that can't exist on the wii seems to suggest that some people care. You people ignoring things like halo and MW2 and whatnot aren't really scraping together much credibility for your arguments.

yet those titles dont sell nearly as much as games like wii fit, wii sports, wii play or mario kart wii.. heck halo 3 got outsold by a party game by sega (of course DS version included but still)


the thing is that apparantly the gaming media and publishers just want certain type of games.. games that have guns, that are violent and that have high technology involved.. and for that they are missing out on an opportunity that has brought nintendo a lot of money and marketshare

 

[Acosta]

You know, following his line of thinking, perhaps he should have had that conversation two years before, when the decision was made, and not now, (or be more convincing if he had it and publishers passed anyway).

 

[jump_button]

It's nice of him to ignore the hardware limitations that nintendo chose themselves being a limiting factor in third party success.

if they didt do that we wii will be geting all ps3/360 stuff as well as it own games in HD, But really 3rd partys are being dicks when it comes to the wii.

I find it sad that ppl saying games need to look like a ps3 /360 game to be any good are the same that got a PS1 over a N64

sad that gamer and devs cant look pass how it looks

 

[Penguin]

The millions of people setting records by buying hyped up 3d intensive games that can't exist on the wii seems to suggest that some people care. You people ignoring things like halo and MW2 and whatnot aren't really scraping together much credibility for your arguments.

Yeah on the same hand games like Wii Fit, Wii Play and Wii Sports have outsold both of them.

This is the most important game of the generation... and it is no where near the prettiest.

So Wii having the best hardware sales and the top software sales... leads you to conclude that HD is where the market wants to go?

 

[AceBandage]

You know, following his line of thinking, perhaps he should have had that conversation two years before, when the decision was made, and not now.

Which conversation?
You mean with third parties?
He's actually been talking with them since before the Wii came out.
Nintendo gave Rockstar a bunch of, basically, free dev kits for the system, infact, and all we got from that was a Bully port...

 

[[Nintex]]

yet those titles dont sell nearly as much as games like wii fit, wii sports, wii play or mario kart wii.. heck halo 3 got outsold by a party game by sega (of course DS version included but still)

But not even all Nintendo games sell as much as Mario Kart Wii and Wii Fit. Even Nintendo is having trouble to reach the same level of succes.

 

[Acosta]

Which conversation?
You mean with third parties?
He's actually been talking with them since before the Wii came out.
Nintendo gave Rockstar a bunch of, basically, free dev kits for the system, infact, and all we got from that was a Bully port...

I edited expecting this answer.

Free dev kits is not a powerful argument to convince anyone nowadays. Ask Microsoft what it takes to be more "convincing".

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Missing the point? Well, here's how I see it...

There will never be a Wii HD. Why? Because Wii is strongest with a demographic that doesn't care or need HD. Wii does best with an audience that prefers a certain type of experience, and if these changes theorist suggest should happen do transpire for Wii, it might kill off the largest consumer support base for the platform at the cost of appeasing a smaller one. That makes zero business sense.

If anything, Nintendo should continue to support the Wii for as long as it can, only make new models that make sense for the core demographic (core as in who the system most appeals to, not the "core" gamer term everyone throws around). What they should do to recapture the consumers they've lost or haven't appealed to yet (those that are 360/PS3/PC owners only) is have an HD ready system that is NOT called Wii and is branded as something else and is aimed solely at the demographic. That way Wii continues making millions for Nintendo with its huge market, and Nintendo can begin to tap into the the 360/PS3/PC market. Also, those who are weened on Wii and want to graduate to something more will have a Nintendo-option rather than defecting to a competitor.

And as always, DS (and its eventual successor) is there to capture the portable market. There are those "three pillars" Iwata talked so much about before. In fanboy talk, a console for casuals, a console for hardcore gamers, and a portable device for everyone in general. But again, this new HD console should have no associate with the Wii name, to avoid confusion with consumers and risking alienating them, and so the market they're going after doesn't associate it with "casual".

if that was the problem they could do this next winter:

Wii Classic (rebranded original sub-hd Wii)

Wii HD (pretty much Wii 2 with new powerful Chip + extra features and HDD / plays Wii Classic games)


I don't think Nintendo will move before Sony or MS they don't want to have the weakest power two gens in a row? Wait... yeah Nintendo is that stupid I forgot = thus Wii HD in 2011 will barely pass the current PS3 in power and killed by the PS4 monster

 

[farnham]

i think what nintendo should do is to support the third parties that are really trying on the wii

marvelous for example made tremendous games on the wii

muramasa, no more heroes, little king story, rune factory frontier...

soon arc rise fantasia and nmh 2

sure they are niche titles... but with some funding and help on the promotion side they would secure a really solid line of third party titles..

 

[schuelma]

You get the sense that Reggie is honestly a bit dumbfounded at how difficult it has been to get third parties on board. He just assumed if they built a big userbase developers would follow.

Oops.