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[AceBandage]

I edited expecting this answer.

Free dev kits is not a powerful argument to convince anyone nowadays. Ask Microsoft what it takes to be more "convincing".

Sadly, Nintendo doesn't have a multi billion dollar parent company to leech off of so that it can bleed money out to devs.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

This goes against anything Miyamoto and Iwata said about the next Wii. Miyamoto said that they've 'shaken up' the market and wouldn't change the interface, only improve it and make it more cost effective.

A 360/PS3 level Wii next year would certainly be cost effective - Much cheaper to manufacture now than it would've been in 2006, can easily be sold for $250 and draws instant third party support - they'll throw ports at a more capable Wii like there's no tomorrow, there's no extra effort required. Such a console would throw a spanner into the works of Sony & Microsoft up until the release of their next consoles, which are probably two, three years away at this point.

 

[TunaLover]

I'm not saying that building diversity is a bad thing.

I just don't see how one can do it with titles that would, by definition, be of interest to only a small audience (hence "niche"). The issue is compounded if we believe that the people likely to want to buy these niche games would already own a Wii regardless, and thus their release would do nothing to diversify the Wii's audience.

It definitively could help to change people perception as Wii as a casual machine mainly, entice third parties to bring different content to the platform, help to create a more friendly enviorement for those kind titles, MMV I see you.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

if that was the problem they could do this next winter:

Wii Classic (rebranded original sub-hd Wii)

Wii HD (pretty much Wii 2 with new powerful Chip + extra features and HDD / plays Wii Classic games)

Worked well for Coke.

 

[GDGF]

So what did the GameCube do that the PS2 couldn't do back then?

wut.

Don't you mean what did the GameCube do that the N64 couldn't do?

 

[AceBandage]

Worked well for Coke.

Only because New Coke sucked ass.

 

[Let me in]

Seems to me that Nintendo's given third-parties plenty of breathing room, especially in 2009. Their output hasn't exactly been overwhelming. I had also suspected that this may be an intentional move to give third-parties some more software real estate, but the dearth of Nintendo-made games hasn't seemed to inspire anyone else to cover the gaps.

There's definitely been some good software being made be people other than Nintendo, but nothing that generates the type of word-of-mouth awareness that 360/PS3 releases get.

 

[Frencherman]

Ask Microsoft what it takes to be more "convincing".

Exactly! Even if it is not Nintendo's business culture, they should really have jumped out of their shadow by investing their money in "western" third party projects.

The result would have been: A bit less money but one more "big" audience to support the console!

 

[jump_button]

PS1 vs N64
PS2 vs XBOX
PSP vs DS

With good 3rd party games any under power can win over power, look at the DS, PS2, PS1

PS3/360 vs Wii

but with the Wii 3rd partys have waited too long

 

[legend166]

i think what nintendo should do is to support the third parties that are really trying on the wii

marvelous for example made tremendous games on the wii

muramasa, no more heroes, little king story, rune factory frontier...

soon arc rise fantasia and nmh 2

sure they are niche titles... but with some funding and help on the promotion side they would secure a really solid line of third party titles..

I completely agree with this. It's time to let go of Activision, EA, Take Two, Ubisoft, etc. They can survive on their own.

Nintendo should be highlighting those games.

 

[schuelma]

I think in the end its relatively simple- most Western developers want to work on the higher powered consoles and the 360/PS3/PC platform if you will has had enough hits that publishers don't feel compelled to force Wii projects.

It is what it is Reggie, it is what it is.

 

[[Nintex]]

PS1 vs N64
PSP vs DS

With good 3rd party games any under power can win over power

PS3/360 vs Wii

but with the Wii 3rd partys have waited too long

Lets just forget all other factors, like Nintendo screwing over all third parties with the N64. Recently Iwata said that the N64 was a system that didn't work at all and caused programmers to blow their brains out because of the SGi chip, both during the investors QA session and the Sin & Punishment 2 Iwata Asks interview.

The biggest problem is not that the Wii is 'under powered' I think the problem is that the hardware is ancient by 2009 standards. Who is going to bother to learn TEV's and shit when there's DirectX and pixel shaders. Also note that Nintendo said: "programming on Wii is easy, you can just re-use your Cube stuff!", they apparently forgot that outside Factor 5, Nintendo and Capcom no one bothered to build games for the system. So there's no GameCube background to fall back on for most developers. They have to build everything for the Wii from scratch.

 

[Acosta]

Sadly, Nintendo doesn't have a multi billion dollar parent company to leech off of so that it can bleed money out to devs.

Yes, I'm sure Nintendo convinced Capcom to put MH 3 on Wii using Iwata's famous "puppy eye" technique.

I wouldn't consider Nintendo a poor, poor company fighting giants, and it´s not only about money. If you are a salesman, and you want to sell something (developing in my machine in this case), you need good arguments, better positioning and stronger relationships with third parties. The interesting question is why Reggie was not able to convince Rockstar that a GTA for Wii was a good idea. Are you completely sure Reggie did all he could to convince them from his part?

 

[autobzooty]

Everything Reggie said there seems pretty contrary to what Nintendo frequently does. They're CONSTANTLY pumping out new versions of hardware just to make minor changes or add minor features. Just look at the DSi (DSiWare still woefully unsupported, and no real games taking advantage of the extra features), and especially the DSi XL or whatever it is. That one literally does nothing but make it bigger.

Could be that Reggie is just trying to downplay rumors and such before they're ready to make a formal announcement of a WiiHD. Or maybe he's telling the truth.

 

[AceBandage]

Yes, I'm sure Nintendo convinced Capcom to put MH 3 on Wii using Iwata's famous "puppy eye" technique.

I wouldn't consider Nintendo a poor, poor company fighting giants, and it´s not only about money. If you are a salesman, and you want to sell something (developing in my machine in this case), you need good arguments, better positioning and stronger relationships with third parties. The interesting question is why Reggie was not able to convince Rockstar that a GTA for Wii was a good idea. Are you completely sure Reggie did all he could to convince them from his part?

No, because I don't have complete insight into the industry's workings.
I am, however, sure that Rockstar basically took anything that Reggie did give them and basically said "Screw you guys."

 

[Stumpokapow]

Yeah. It doesn't speak well of the light-gun genre, at least.

Well if you want to take that angle, Time Crisis 4 for the PS3 was a complete and utter shitpile and sold, well, I guess probably around fifteen times as much as Dead Space Extraction despite the terrible health of the platform, the terrible quality of the game, the uselessness of the peripheral, and the fact that Time Crisis isn't really much of an IP in terms of strength to begin with.

... and that's an issue too.

 

[Kai Dracon]

You get the sense that Reggie is honestly a bit dumbfounded at how difficult it has been to get third parties on board. He just assumed if they built a big userbase developers would follow.

Oops.

It is in this that Reggie betrays he's not a gaming man, but a marketing man brought in. Now, this is no shame on him. He's pretty good. But he doesn't seem to understand what drives much of the modern game industry - ego, for example. On the development side, game devs who want to be hollywood directors. On the business side, short-sighted revenue mongers who don't care about customers or making new ones, just about extracting as much quick cash as they can from a perceived cult-like following of 18-30 year old shut-in males who are obsessed and spend all their income on shooters, racers, and sports games.

I think he may not have a clue how much the Wii is despised by the industry. The industry has hated Nintendo for some time, for a variety of reasons. Heck, some of those reasons have been valid, from time to time. The Wii has just given them a brand new box of reasons to hate Nintendo. Wii isn't going in the direction that the game industry /wants/ to be the future of gaming.

 

[Luigison]

Only because New Coke sucked ass.

New Coke won over and over again in blind taste tests, but as soon as some people saw the New Coke label they were disgusted. It was the marketing that sucked, not the product.

 

[AceBandage]

Well if you want to take that angle, Time Crisis 4 for the PS3 was a complete and utter shitpile and sold, well, I guess probably around fifteen times as much as Dead Space Extraction despite the terrible health of the platform, the terrible quality of the game, the uselessness of the peripheral, and the fact that Time Crisis isn't really much of an IP in terms of strength to begin with.

... and that's an issue too.

You're right, and HotD and UC sold exceptionally well on the Wii, as well.
I think what Extraction failing really says is that "core" Wii owners are tired of tests and lame spin offs.
We've had enough of "If you buy this game, we'll make more core games!" then buying them, and getting squat.
Infact, I wouldn't be surprised if DSC barely hit half of what UC hit.

 

[Penguin]

Everything Reggie said there seems pretty contrary to what Nintendo frequently does. They're CONSTANTLY pumping out new versions of hardware just to make minor changes or add minor features. Just look at the DSi (DSiWare still woefully unsupported, and no real games taking advantage of the extra features), and especially the DSi XL or whatever it is. That one literally does nothing but make it bigger.

Could be that Reggie is just trying to downplay rumors and such before they're ready to make a formal announcement of a WiiHD. Or maybe he's telling the truth.

But all you named were the handhelds..

Even when it struggled there were only one version of the n64 and the Cube.
There are different colors and stuff, but still only one version of the consoles.

I believe same with NES/SNES though they eventually had the top loading NES?

 

[ksamedi]

Well if you want to take that angle, Time Crisis 4 for the PS3 was a complete and utter shitpile and sold, well, I guess probably around fifteen times as much as Dead Space Extraction despite the terrible health of the platform, the terrible quality of the game, the uselessness of the peripheral, and the fact that Time Crisis isn't really much of an IP in terms of strength to begin with.

... and that's an issue too.

Well, we have a fairly comparable game on the Wii and that is Resident Evil Chronicles which did what, more than a million worldwide?

 

[SuperJay]

The problem is a huge percentage of Nintendo's market includes older casual gamers who bought their wii more as a "Wii Sports Machine" and not as a "Let's buy the newest software machine." This sector of their market will be enticed by things that sound familiar, like Wii Fit, but they're not interested in or particularly aware of 3rd party efforts. Compounding the problem is traditional Nintendo fanboyism (no disrespect!) which has, for good or ill, plagued 3rd parties for the last few systems now. A lot of people who buy Nintendo buy for the nostalgia, for the big Mario and Zelda titles, and little else.

 

[elrechazado]

Yeah on the same hand games like Wii Fit, Wii Play and Wii Sports have outsold both of them.

This is the most important game of the generation... and it is no where near the prettiest.

So Wii having the best hardware sales and the top software sales... leads you to conclude that HD is where the market wants to go?

What are you even arguing with? I don't think you even read what I was responding to. At no point did I ever say that MW2 wasn't outsold by wii fit. The idea that the market doesn't want MW2 or Halo 3 is the asinine bullshit that wii fans keep spouting.

 

[TunaLover]

It is in this that Reggie betrays he's not a gaming man, but a marketing man brought in. Now, this is no shame on him. He's pretty good. But he doesn't seem to understand what drives much of the modern game industry - ego, for example. On the development side, game devs who want to be hollywood directors. On the business side, short-sighted revenue mongers who don't care about customers or making new ones, just about extracting as much quick cash as they can from a perceived cult-like following of 18-30 year old shut-in males who are obsessed and spend all their income on shooters, racers, and sports games.

I think he may not have a clue how much the Wii is despised by the industry. The industry has hated Nintendo for some time, for a variety of reasons. Heck, some of those reasons have been valid, from time to time. The Wii has just given them a brand new box of reasons to hate Nintendo. Wii isn't going in the direction that the game industry /wants/ to be the future of gaming.

That´s assuming that Nintendo isn´t part of this industry.

 

[AceBandage]

The problem is a huge percentage of Nintendo's market includes older casual gamers who bought their wii more as a "Wii Sports Machine" and not as a "Let's buy the newest software machine." This sector of their market will be enticed by things that sound familiar, like Wii Fit, but they're not interested in or particularly aware of 3rd party efforts. Compounding the problem is traditional Nintendo fanboyism (no disrespect!) which has, for good or ill, plagued 3rd parties for the last few systems now. A lot of people who buy Nintendo buy for the nostalgia, for the big Mario and Zelda titles, and little else.

Except that this is been disproven over and over...

 

[Penguin]

What are you even arguing with? I don't think you even read what I was responding to. At no point did I ever say that MW2 wasn't outsold by wii fit. The idea that the market doesn't want MW2 or Halo 3 is the asinine bullshit that wii fans keep spouting.

But no one is saying the market doesn't want that... you stated that, that is where the market is heading.

I'm just pointing out that there seems to be a minority who are actually embracing HD in their console.

If people didn't want games like MW 2 or Halo 3 (though I can live without it), we wouldn't have this thread.

 

[elrechazado]

But no one is saying the market doesn't want that... you stated that, that is where the market is heading.

I'm just pointing out that there seems to be a minority who are actually embracing HD in their console.

If people didn't want games like MW 2 or Halo 3 (though I can live without it), we wouldn't have this thread.

Putting aside the fact that the HD consoles as a whole have outsold the wii (if you want to argue HD vs non HD home consoles), a wii that supports HD on the most basic level could do everything the current wii does and still have the modern warfares and gta's.

They chose not to do this, and casting off one enormous segment of the market is just as stupid as ignoring the casual market at a lower price. Nintendo fans like the one that I intially responded to want to claim against all evidence that nobody wants high budget, good looking games. That's simply foolish.

 

[legend166]

Well if you want to take that angle, Time Crisis 4 for the PS3 was a complete and utter shitpile and sold, well, I guess probably around fifteen times as much as Dead Space Extraction despite the terrible health of the platform, the terrible quality of the game, the uselessness of the peripheral, and the fact that Time Crisis isn't really much of an IP in terms of strength to begin with.

... and that's an issue too.

Time Crisis has much more pull in the light gun genre than Dead Space.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Except that it's not. Not at all.
It's that third parties load the system with complete crap.
The Wii should be super easy to develop for, since it's essentially a GameCube, but they struggle to make games even look like the GameCube's mid tier games

Except it's neither of these that's the primary issue. It's Nintendo's laughable third party relations that's the problem.

mostly it's just too much competition from 1st parties.

If third parties didn't want to compete against Nintendo's market than why do they make a lot of casual/kid games for the console?

Not shockingly, the gaming market wants this as well, whether or not you agree, it's a fact.

Yes I mean look at the best selling games this generation as well as the best selling hardware. :lol

Yes the market they're targeting wants that but the gaming front is vastly changing as high end power is quickly moving toward casual play, multiplayer, and mass multiplayer online gaming.

Sadly, Nintendo doesn't have a multi billion dollar parent company to leech off of so that it can bleed money out to devs.

It's very possible to be very profitable as well as give developers what they want to support your system (the original Playstation is a perfect example of reaching out to publishers as well as not sacrificing mass profit).

And Nintendo does have a multi-billion dollar company to reach to...

Spoiler

Nintendo!

 

[SecretBonusPoint]

I cannot believe someone actually raised "Nintendo doesn't have lots of money to talk with" in this thread with a straight face. Got to love that shit :lol

Then they also start raising games such as Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii and Mario and Sonic at the Olympics as evidence of games selling on Wii. Way to miss the point by miles.

 

[elrechazado]

Yes I mean look at the best selling games this generation as well as the best selling hardware. :lol

You people realize this isn't a point at all, right? Half market share is still half. Just because you had a ten million seller doesn't mean the 9.9 million seller doesn't exist. It's this propensity to ignore all other success and market opportunity that makes you look like idiots.

why make a system that MW2 and Assassins Creed 2 could appear on? What's in it for Nintendo? They're already number 1 in console unit sales and nobody is touching their software sales.

Like I said above...foolishness

the gaming front is vastly changing as high end power is quickly moving toward mass multiplayer online gaming.

oh, nintendo's totally ahead of the curve then :lol :lol :lol

 

[Log4Girlz]

Nintendo will only release an HD console to compete with MS and Sony when they are convinced there is no other option. Wii is not only the number 1 system in the world, but Nintendo is at the very pinnacle of software development for the platform...why make a system that MW2 and Assassins Creed 2 could appear on? What's in it for Nintendo? They're already number 1 in console unit sales and nobody is touching their software sales.

 

[legend166]

No one is ignoring the GTAs or CoDs.

Although, I do find it interesting that San Andreas outsold GTA IV by what, 7-8 million units?

 

[Black-Wind]

In jest, I replied: "So, no new Wii in 2010?"

Fils-Aime: "Not to announce with you here today."

His silence speaks volumes . . .

Wii HD 2010!

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Hrm, he doesn't dismiss that the next console will have HD, in fact he seems to confirm it by saying it's going to go even further than that. Obviously, resolution is important, but by his comment it seems Nintendo's likely to beef up the hardware specs. "No duh!", right? But it could be now that the motion controls are already out there, we may see a bigger increase than GC to Wii. Hrm.

It'll be interesting to see where Nintendo goes from here. As they've proven with the DSi and DSi XL, they're not above doing crazy random stuff that catches people off-guard.

 

[farnham]

Putting aside the fact that the HD consoles as a whole have outsold the wii (if you want to argue HD vs non HD home consoles), a wii that supports HD on the most basic level could do everything the current wii does and still have the modern warfares and gta's.

doubt it

an hd nintendo console would have to establish itself.. it would be like gamecube 2 unlike it sells gangbusters out of the gate

 

[AceBandage]

Hrm, he doesn't dismiss that the next console will have HD, in fact he seems to confirm it by saying it's going to go even further than that. Obviously, resolution is important, but by his comment it seems Nintendo's likely to beef up the hardware specs. "No duh!", right? But it could be now that the motion controls are already out there, we may see a bigger increase than GC to Wii. Hrm.

It'll be interesting to see where Nintendo goes from here. As they've proven with the DSi and DSi XL, they're not above doing crazy random stuff that catches people off-guard.

What handheld don't they do that with, though?
I mean, Gameboy Micro?
Light Boy?

 

[Balb]

Well it's obvious that Nintendo has to do something.

They're a Japanese company, and their console has little to no momentum in Japan, even after the release of Monster Hunter 3. Sure they locked up Dragon Quest X, but that game could be 2-3 years away.

 

[Hero of Legend]

Just release either an external upconverting device ala the 360 HD-DVD player, or make a new Wii model to include upconverting capabilities.

I mean we have DVD players that do this for under $100, as little as what, $50?

This way, developers won't have to worry about adding actual HD to their Wii games as we'll get artificial HD with everything anyway.

I mean upconverted DVDs look great! Of course... they'll have to do something about jaggies, as I don't think upconversion will fix that alone.

Edit: Better yet, team up with Toshiba to add that XDE Upconversion capabilities that enhances color, contrast, and sharpness.

 

[Bluemercury]

I cannot believe someone actually raised "Nintendo doesn't have lots of money to talk with" in this thread with a straight face. Got to love that shit :lol

Then they also start raising games such as Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii and Mario and Sonic at the Olympics as evidence of games selling on Wii. Way to miss the point by miles.

For the practices that MS does regarding third parties and the amount of money they've been throwing away please go to the David Wise leaving Rare thread.......Nintendo cant afford to lose money like that even if they're full of money now....

 

[Mooreberg]

I don't understand the "two years of planning" comment. Everyone knew how well Wii was selling in 2008, but there are still AAA games coming out next year that will be on 360, PS3, and PC. They're going to make the games for the hardware that runs their engine (or perhaps in most cases, Epic's engine) and nets enough of unit sales to justify the investment.

 

[Black-Wind]

For the practices that MS does regarding third parties and the amount of money they've been throwing away please go to the David Wise leaving Rare thread.......Nintendo cant afford to lose money like that even if they're full of money now....

Explain?

Don't care for Rare so I haven't gone to that thread . . .

 

[Wizman23]

I think a Wii HD would be nothing but an epic disaster. First of all who would buy it? The hardcore crowd already owns a 360 or a PS3 and most likely both. The hardcore are looking forward to the next generation of consoles and would laugh at a Wii HD. Lets be honest here unless Nintendo charges $400-500 for the Wii HD it is going to look no better then the 360 or PS3 currently does. Not only that but the 360 and PS3 have great online communities that took years to get where they are now.

 

[Bluemercury]

Explain?

Don't care for Rare so I haven't gone to that thread . . .

Basically its the way MS used to "buy" third parties hoping the talent would stay there....little did they know....

 

[Hero of Legend]

Ah, okay, if I'm reading this Wiki page about Upconversion correctly, it seems the function is more of making the 480p signal much closer to the actual source on an HD display as 480p on an HDTV looks like crud to start, this helps to fix it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upconversion#Upscaling.2FUpconverting_DVD

Nintendo would need this SoC (System-on-a-Chip) to help it along by adding deinterlacing and whatnot.

 

[avatar299]

I think he may not have a clue how much the Wii is despised by the industry. The industry has hated Nintendo for some time, for a variety of reasons. Heck, some of those reasons have been valid, from time to time. The Wii has just given them a brand new box of reasons to hate Nintendo. Wii isn't going in the direction that the game industry /wants/ to be the future of gaming.

Exactly.

I guran-fucking-tee Nintendo could release an HD Wii tomorrow, and all the people bitching about the Wii wouldn't touch it. No new developers would jump on. No "my wii si collecting dust" gamers would jump on. It's not about tech, it's about Nintendo just being Nintendo.

We saw this happen with the gamecube. Bitch about the "kiddiness" or it's lack of broad appeal, ignore the success stories, then armchair quarterback what Nintendo has to do to be successful.

I want to see Wii 2 just to see the new argument.

Oh and it's funny that Kotaku uses WaW as an example of a successful game.....despite running an article months ago calling WaW Wii a failure.

 

[legend166]

I think a Wii HD would be nothing but an epic disaster. First of all who would buy it? The hardcore crowd already owns a 360 or a PS3 and most likely both. The hardcore are looking forward to the next generation of consoles and would laugh at a Wii HD. Lets be honest here unless Nintendo charges $400-500 for the Wii HD it is going to look no better then the 360 or PS3 currently does. Not only that but the 360 and PS3 have great online communities that took years to get where they are now.

I'm pretty sure Microsoft are currently making a profit on the 360 at $300, why couldn't Nintendo do the same?

I don't think they will, anyway. I'm expecting Wii 2 in 2011.

 

[Penguin]

You people realize this isn't a point at all, right? Half market share is still half. Just because you had a ten million seller doesn't mean the 9.9 million seller doesn't exist. It's this propensity to ignore all other success and market opportunity that makes you look like idiots.
l

Now, would you recommend Sony and MS start to cater more to casual gamers? Should they release an exercise game and a kart racer and mini-game collections?

I mean you say Nintendo should embrace HD because half the market is there, but on the flip side would people be happy if MS and Sony embraced the other half?

And it is iffy to say that Nintendo is only half, I mean you don't think there is some overlap in gamers who own a 360/ps3?

 

[donny2112]

Capcom is already taking a loss on not charging for online,

Link? I figured they'd do the free month like in Japan and then start charging. If it's free to play online all the time, it makes the game a much better purchase.

So what did the GameCube do that the PS2 couldn't do back then?

The PS2 wasn't their console. They moved from N64 to GameCube.

 

[clashfan]

I'm tired of Reggie's act. It's really getting old...