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[Kinitari]

I really don't think Rey was super overpowered. She beat Ren, but he isn't exactly the most stable (which... Well depending on how much he adheres to Sith ideology, might actually make him stronger, but I digress) and he got softened up. The fact that either her or Finn could use a light saber as well as they did bothered me, but whatever.

We don't have enough reference points in the movie to really compare her to other force users other than Ren, so I can appreciate why people think she's somewhat overpowered... But I don't think that's her characters biggest sin. I've said it before and I'll say it again, her presentation is mostly flat when compared to Finn and Ren.

Ren starts the movie off as this scary powerful badass, fucks up his job a few times and starts to lose his badass veneer, confronts his father and that was actually a scene where I thought there was some interesting internal conflict happening. Gets injured and starts to really lose his cool in that forest, what with his screaming and his beating his own wound. He gets some of his badassness back during the fights, but he still loses. Overall, the more I think of him, the more I think he's tied for my favouritefavorite character the movie, with Finn.

Finn, has wildly different relationships with everyone, with completely different dialogue. You see him silly and he's good comic relief, you see him scared, acting selfishly, but also trying to act noble. He can fight okay, but ends up losing more fights than he wins, and overall, I feel as though he went from a relatively simple character to one who is much more complex.

Both these characters I feel will have interesting opportunities in the next movie, I can kind of guess what happens with Ren, but Finn is a really interesting question mark.

When it comes to Rey though? She is always cool, everyone wants her, whether they're good or bad, and heap on the praise. When she fucks up, they're not even that bad - releasing weird aliens, but by doing so inadvertently saving everyone and even being humble about her cool door tentacle chopping. She like... Misses a blaster bolt once, but then immediately rocks it. She fixes the millennium falcon, she beats Ren, she basically is a really awesome character. She met Luke, and now she'll probably train, but she's already rocking some complicated force techniques, so I don't see her learning anything new or cool, just getting better at things she's already good at.

To make her more interesting, they need to give her more serious faults, in my opinion. The next movie I hope has her being challenged more, and has her failing a few times. As it stands right now, as much as I like her, she didn't steal the show for me.

 

[Jinaar]

Rey is more Martha Stewart. She gets things done!

 

[Box]

I'm disappointed so many people are firing back at the OT in order to defend Rey. Luke is not a Mary Sue in the first movie. He's a brat and is treated as such by the rest of the cast. The only way to possibly conceive of him being a Mary Sue is by taking individual actions out of context of the movie, like his deflection of blaster bolts during training. That's not a feat. It doesn't matter how physically difficult it would be in the real world. This is a story and what matters is how the story interprets and responds to this. And if you actually watch the scene and take it for what it is, you'll see that it isn't a big deal at all. It's a scene meant to demonstrate using that the force can be used by common people like Luke if they believe in it. It's not a grand demonstration of magic as evidenced by Han Solo calling it luck. In fact, that's exactly how we're supposed to interpret it. He made a lucky guess about where it would be except that we now understand that in the Star Wars world, what we would attribute to luck is attributable to the force.

 

[Platy]

I find weird to see people say that Rey is overpowered when Kylo holded a laser on the air for 5 minutes, 4:50 of those minutes without the hand there to hold it in place.
YODA needed his hands to hold stuff in place and no jedi till now has been seen to stop laser on the air.

And Atack of Clones jedi being overpowered by droids scene would be awesome to show some of the jedis doing ANYTHING with the basters with the force. Nope, all saber defense.

Rey is overpowered because she knew about the force, Kylo told her how Mind Tricks worked, tryed 3 times failing it and THEN she managed. Or because she defeated a kyo who was :

1- Emotionaly distressed by killing his father
2- Hurt by a blast from a weapon known to EXPLODE stormtroopers
3- Emotionaly disturbed because "i want my lightsaber !!!!! give me my lightsaber or I will stop playing ><"
4- Not trying to kill her because papa Snooke said he wanted her alive
5- Not finished his training

Kylo Ren isn't the traditional "badass" bad guy. If anything, he's more like a metatextual commentary on shitty Star Wars fans, who take all the wrong lessons from the story being told.

Your entire post is awesome, thank you

 

[Magwik]

I'm disappointed so many people are firing back at the OT in order to defend Rey. Luke is not a Mary Sue in the first movie. He's a brat and is treated as such by the rest of the cast. The only way to possibly conceive of him being a Mary Sue is by taking individual actions out of context of the movie, like his deflection of blaster bolts during training. That's not a feat. It doesn't matter how physically difficult it would be in the real world. This is a story and what matters is how the story interprets and responds to this. And if you actually watch the scene and take it for what it is, you'll see that it isn't a big deal at all. It's a scene meant to demonstrate using that the force can be used by common people like Luke if they believe in it. It's not a grand demonstration of magic as evidenced by Han Solo calling it luck. In fact, that's exactly how we're supposed to interpret it. He made a lucky guess about where it would be except that we now understand that in the Star Wars world, what we would attribute to luck is attributable to the force.

Isn't that entirely what happened in the third act of The Force Awakens ... ????

 

[Box]

Isn't that entirely what happened in the third act of The Force Awakens ... ????

I'm not sure what you're asking here.

 

[Magwik]

I'm not sure what you're asking here.

If you're argument is that Rey is a Mary Sue and can't be compared to Luke because of how Luke is shown to use the force then your argument completely falls apart because the same exact thing minus the training scene happens in Ep. 7.

 

[Box]

If you're argument is that Rey is a Mary Sue and can't be compared to Luke because of how Luke is shown to use the force then your argument completely falls apart because the same exact thing minus the training scene happens in Ep. 7.

I'm talking about how Luke's use of the force to be lucky doesn't mean much in a world where all luck is attributable to the force. One would imagine other people, even Han Solo, experience luck and therefore can use the force in some way. Technically creating luck is a 'force power' but it's so pedestrian that people who don't believe in or understand the force can use it. It's not an impressive feat.

 

[excelsiorlef]

LOL wait are you now saying Luke's destruction of the Death Star shot was luck and not using the force.

Yeah it was luck that's why he closed his eyes and focused deeply within aka used the force.

 

[Box]

LOL wait are you now saying Luke's destruction of the Death Star shot was luck and not using the force.

Yeah it was luck that's why he closed his eyes and focused deeply within aka used the force.

The point is that Luke doesn't demonstrate any explicit magical powers in the way that Obiwan and Vader do. You could interpret the death star shot as luck, destiny, or the force because they're all the same thing.

 

[aliengmr]

The point is that Luke doesn't demonstrate any explicit magical powers in the way that Obiwan and Vader do. You could interpret the death star shot as luck, destiny, or the force because they're all the same thing.

Just luck?

 

[Veelk]

The point is that Luke doesn't demonstrate any explicit magical powers in the way that Obiwan and Vader do. You could interpret the death star shot as luck, destiny, or the force because they're all the same thing.

He. Deflected. Lasers. While. BLIND.

The revisionism that goes into justifying these arguments is nothing short of insane.

 

[Nairume]

He. Deflected. Lasers. While. BLIND.

The revisionism that goes into justifying these arguments is nothing short of insane.

Not to mention, if we allow ourselves to move on to ESB, he was able to force pull his lightsaber to him at the beginning of the film and without anything shown on screen to explain how he learned to do that between films.

Maybe people were a lot less anal about that kind of stuff in 1980.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The point is that Luke doesn't demonstrate any explicit magical powers in the way that Obiwan and Vader do. You could interpret the death star shot as luck, destiny, or the force because they're all the same thing.

They literally have a force ghost telling him to use the force, then have Vader say the force is strong in this one and then he turns off his targeting computer and fire blind.

It's so blatantly the force come the fuck on.

 

[Box]

He. Deflected. Lasers. While. BLIND.

The revisionism that goes into justifying these arguments is nothing short of insane.

It's not magic and it's not a feat. It's luck*. I didn't come up with this on my own. The scene implies that as the explanation.

*Obiwan explains that what Han Solo and the viewer might call luck is actually the force.

They literally have a force ghost telling him to use the force, then have Vader say the force is strong in this one and then he turns off his targeting computer and fire blind.

It's so blatantly the force come the fuck on.

I'm not saying it's not the force. I'm saying it's not explicitly magical. It's not something that can't be explained by a lucky shot. This is in contrast to using telekinesis to choke someone or manipulating people's minds. Those are explicitly magical powers that are beyond Luke's abilities. That is the difference.

 

[excelsiorlef]

They literally say it's the force and the force is magical....

He used the force to target, hence why he turned off his computer, ot's not luck it's force magic, and that's fine because...drum roll.... it's fucking Star Wars

 

[Kinitari]

I think I get what Box is trying to say, although I don't necessarily agree - he's making a distinction between doing something that could potentially be written off as a lucky shot, or good timing (for deflecting lasers) and stuff like shooting lightning out of your fingers or force choking a bitch.

I don't know -why- this distinction is being made, as I only read the last few posts on this, but that's what my take away is.

 

[DrForester]

The point is that Luke doesn't demonstrate any explicit magical powers in the way that Obiwan and Vader do. You could interpret the death star shot as luck, destiny, or the force because they're all the same thing.

Just luck?

Luke also survives the assault on the Death Star. Flying his T-16 at home might explain how he can takeoff and land an X-Wing and survive, but to survive a full military assault with minimal ships? That's pretty magical.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I'm disappointed so many people are firing back at the OT in order to defend Rey. Luke is not a Mary Sue in the first movie. He's a brat and is treated as such by the rest of the cast. The only way to possibly conceive of him being a Mary Sue is by taking individual actions out of context of the movie, like his deflection of blaster bolts during training. That's not a feat. It doesn't matter how physically difficult it would be in the real world. This is a story and what matters is how the story interprets and responds to this. And if you actually watch the scene and take it for what it is, you'll see that it isn't a big deal at all. It's a scene meant to demonstrate using that the force can be used by common people like Luke if they believe in it. It's not a grand demonstration of magic as evidenced by Han Solo calling it luck. In fact, that's exactly how we're supposed to interpret it. He made a lucky guess about where it would be except that we now understand that in the Star Wars world, what we would attribute to luck is attributable to the force.

No one is even calling Luke a Mary sue, they're saying if you argue that Rey is then so is Luke, but that's not calling Luke a Mary Sue to defend Rey it's saying neither are.

I think I get what Box is trying to say, although I don't necessarily agree - he's making a distinction between doing something that could potentially be written off as a lucky shot, or good timing (for deflecting lasers) and stuff like shooting lightning out of your fingers or force choking a bitch.

I don't know -why- this distinction is being made, as I only read the last few posts on this, but that's what my take away is.

If I had to guess it's to defend Luke as not being a Mary Sue while saying Rey is.

 

[Platy]

The death star is obviously force.

Going bullseye on those mole holes with his farming equipment (what he says for them to allow him to try the shot while they are preparing the mission) sounds more skill/luck/sleepen force

 

[Trident]

I don't understand why Luke is even relevant. Is the idea that people are using a different standard for Rey because she's a girl?

Here's a thought experiment: pretend counter-factually that Luke was a girl and Rey was a guy. Does this affect your analysis?

If yes, you're applying a gender-based double standard. If not, you aren't.

 

[Box]

They literally say it's the force and the force is magical....

Maybe you're confused by the words I'm using. The force is not magic. The force can do things that we viewers would consider magical. There are parts of the force that are explicitly magical and there are parts that are not. It's suggested that all living things use the force in a non-magical way but only a few can do things that we would consider magical. Luke's abilities are somewhere in between. We know his "luck" is controlled by destiny and intention, but he's not doing anything that's straight-up impossible like Obiwan and Vader. At best, he's using ESP. It's less impressive than making physical alterations to the world through magic.

And that's the last time I'm going to explain this because I think if anyone wants to understand what I'm saying and not just call me insane, that I've lain it all out sufficiently.

 

[Veelk]

And that's the last time I'm going to explain this because I think if anyone wants to understand what I'm saying and not just call me insane, that I've lain it all out sufficiently.

You are obviously insane, or atleast facetious, but I am willing to entertain the idea. What do you consider magic?

Jedi Mind Trick? Just luck, that stormtrooper is actually just humoring an old man.

Force Choke? The empire is faking it so they don't actually get killed.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

I find weird to see people say that Rey is overpowered when Kylo holded a laser on the air for 5 minutes, 4:50 of those minutes without the hand there to hold it in place.
YODA needed his hands to hold stuff in place and no jedi till now has been seen to stop laser on the air.

And Atack of Clones jedi being overpowered by droids scene would be awesome to show some of the jedis doing ANYTHING with the basters with the force. Nope, all saber defense.

Rey is overpowered because she knew about the force, Kylo told her how Mind Tricks worked, tryed 3 times failing it and THEN she managed. Or because she defeated a kyo who was :

1- Emotionaly distressed by killing his father
2- Hurt by a blast from a weapon known to EXPLODE stormtroopers
3- Emotionaly disturbed because "i want my lightsaber !!!!! give me my lightsaber or I will stop playing ><"
4- Not trying to kill her because papa Snooke said he wanted her alive
5- Not finished his training

haha looks like your MO is to downplay Rey but because you try a two pronged attack your post suffers. it kinda of defeats the point of building up Kylo Ren, implying he was OP and then say he lost for *reasons*

 

[excelsiorlef]

haha looks like your MO is to downplay Rey but because you try a two pronged attack your post suffers. it kinda of defeats the point of building up Kylo Ren, implying he was OP and then say he lost for *reasons*

Well I mean he did, that's the point. He lost because of other factors, they make that clear repeatedly.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Well I mean he did, that's the point. He lost because of other factors, they make that clear repeatedly.

but Kylo is OP

he holded a laser on the air for 5 minutes

 

[Box]

You are insane

So either this is a really petty insult or you actually believe this which is incredibly stupid.

I don't really feel like humoring your questions given the circumstances.


Yeah I'm logging back out. I've given you a chance to be reasonable and the thread is moving on.

 

[Platy]

but Kylo is OP

he holded a laser on the air for 5 minutes

He did something no other Jedi has ever done even in Genndy Tartakovsky's Clone Wars or Force Unleashed games .... and those are known for overpowered jedi features
And half of that he was not even using his hands to channel his force

Rey defeated a crap dude and took 4 times to learn something she saw

 

[DryEyeRelief]

He did something no other Jedi has ever done even in Genndy Tartakovsky's Clone Wars or Force Unleashed games .... and those are known for overpowered jedi features
And half of that he was not even using his hands to channel his force

Rey defeated a crap dude and took 4 times to learn something she saw

make up your mind. is he overpowered or crap?

 

[Platy]

make up your mind. is he overpowered or crap?

He IS overpowered. There isn't a single registered moment where a jedi let alone makes a blaster to change directions with the force and I am talking Clone "Mace Windu kills 300 droids without his saber" Wars and Force "force move a star destroyer" Unleashed

He WAS crap in that fight for reasons already explained.

It is like saying you ARE a good street fighter player, but that one time you went to play online after heavy drinking AND smoking weed AND using a gamecube controller for the lols you had the fighting skills of a scrub

 

[Surfinn]

Except it kind of does BASED ONLY ON WHAT WE KNOW NOW.

Of course there will be a ton of backstory filled in along the way. IN A VACUUM she's overpowered as of right now. But only because we don't know the backstory. If the backstory is she's Luke's daughter which is a logical conclusion many are coming to, then it all makes much more sense.

It could be something totally different too, and that could work. We just don't have enough information to come up with any really solid evidence based theories. It's why a familial connection (while it could very easily end up being incorrect) is the leading theory right now.

And for rational people, it has absolutely nothing to do with whether she is a male or female. I'm sure the sexism charge with regard to some people involved in those discussions. However most of the time I see it thrown around it looks more like a strawman.

Absolutely not. It's explained in the movie that the force is calling to her, and that she's now included in the same generational power shared in the history of Luke's saber, (Maz explains this, that the saber (force) is calling to her and that it had belonged to Luke and his father before him). Therefore, we know that she is at the very least a PART of the force awakening and that she finds her power within it. Even if she is NOT a Skywalker (almost no chance, in my opinion), TFA clearly explains why and how she gets her great power (from the force, it is calling to HER).

What more do you need to know? That's how ALL of these movies have worked previously. I could see if only the Skywalker family has been strong in the force, but that's simply not the case. There's been an awakening in the force and she is in large part involved in it and its power.

This is all explained in the film and painfully obvious. I've seen it seven times and there's no reason for us to not believe she's capable of great things since she is strong in the force and involved in its very awakening. I could see if this were implied, but it is not. It's stated in dialogue, and in her actions (visual storytelling).

HYPOTHETICAL: If the saga started afresh and were NOT based on any Skywalkers, why would we just assume that no one could ever be strong with the force in a way that Luke was?

I'm not sure why people are so attached to that particular bloodline in terms of force and abilities, considering the THOUSANDS OF YEARS of Jedi and Sith that came before, historically. Just because you're (potentially) not a Skywalker doesn't mean you can't be strong with the force or be a hero. Nowhere in the lore is it stated that only Skywalkers are capable of such things.

 

[kame-sennin]

Rey doesn't learn things too quickly. The editing in TFA just sucks. Like most Abrams movies, the film takes no time to create logical set-ups for its big moments, or to let them resonate after the fact. So Rey does expert piloting, then learns the mind trick, then force grabs the saber from the villain, and then wins her first ever lightsaber duel because all those things are cool to see and JJ doesn't give a shit about how the movie gets to them.

But her actual abilities are totally consistent with the Skywalker family, who are practically demigods.

 

[guek]

Rey doesn't learn things too quickly. The editing in TFA just sucks. Like most Abrams movies, the film takes no time to create logical set-ups for its big moments, or to let them resonate after the fact. So Rey does expert piloting, then learns the mind trick, then force grabs the saber from the villain, and then wins her first ever lightsaber duel because all those things are cool to see and JJ doesn't give a shit about how the movie gets to them.

But her actual abilities are totally consistent with the Skywalker family, who are practically demigods.

One of the bigger nitpicks I had was Rey being able to pilot the Falcon so exceptionally well in such a short period. That whole scene just left a big question mark for me. Rey says she's never left Jakku but she's a pilot. Who taught her to fly? Why is someone at the bottom of the social caste as a collector of scrap receiving flying lessons? Luke at least seemed to have a middle class rural upbringing where it's reasonable that he learned to pilot with his friends while growing up, either for recreation or because it was required for his work. Rey is a homeless junker with no family and no friends.

Also, the Falcon hasn't been flown in years but it's unlocked, fueled up, with nothing to prevent someone from starting the engine. It's just sloppy writing.

As for the use of the force, I just wish it hadn't of come so easy for her. Luke struggled to feel it in ANH and struggled to move a saber 3 ft into the air, let alone from a couple dozen yards away and from the clutches of a trained force user. Even after training with the greatest Jedi master in history, he still fails in his first real confrontation with Vader. Rey just wins, always, and how adept she becomes with its use so quickly ends up feeling unearned.

 

[Henkka]

I don't think there's anything to worry about in terms of Rey continuing to succeed at everything.

If VIII continues the tradition of the second act being the darkest one, she will get wrecked at some point.

 

[QuantumZebra]

One of the bigger nitpicks I had was Rey being able to pilot the Falcon so exceptionally well in such a short period. That whole scene just left a big question mark for me. Rey says she's never left Jakku but she's a pilot. Who taught her to fly? Why is someone at the bottom of the social caste as a collector of scrap receiving flying lessons? Luke at least seemed to have a middle class rural upbringing where it's reasonable that he learned to pilot with his friends while growing up, either for recreation or because it was required for his work. Rey is a homeless junker with no family and no friends.

Also, the Falcon hasn't been flown in years but it's unlocked, fueled up, with nothing to prevent someone from starting the engine. It's just sloppy writing.

As for the use of the force, I just wish it hadn't of come so easy for her. Luke struggled to feel it in ANH and struggled to move a saber 3 ft into the air, let alone from a couple dozen yards away and from the clutches of a trained force user. Even after training with the greatest Jedi master in history, he still fails in his first real confrontation with Vader. Rey just wins, always, and how adept she becomes with its use so quickly ends up feeling unearned.

She spent thousands of hours in a flight simulator and sneaking in and out of ships that came into Jakku, there are plenty of other forms of media that explain her history.

Anakin was the definitive Mary Sue, Luke comes close as well. Rey is not.

 

[guek]

She spent thousands of hours in a flight simulator and sneaking in and out of ships that came into Jakku, there are plenty of other forms of media that explain her history.

Anakin was the definitive Mary Sue, Luke comes close as well. Rey is not.

If outside sources work for you to fill in the gaps, more power to ya, but it's ridiculous to think that should satisfy people who have no intention of doing extra work outside of watching the movie.

 

[Crossing Eden]

One of the bigger nitpicks I had was Rey being able to pilot the Falcon so exceptionally well in such a short period. That whole scene just left a big question mark for me. Rey says she's never left Jakku but she's a pilot. Who taught her to fly? Why is someone at the bottom of the social caste as a collector of scrap receiving flying lessons? Luke at least seemed to have a middle class rural upbringing where it's reasonable that he learned to pilot with his friends while growing up, either for recreation or because it was required for his work. Rey is a homeless junker with no family and no friends.

Also, the Falcon hasn't been flown in years but it's unlocked, fueled up, with nothing to prevent someone from starting the engine. It's just sloppy writing.

As for the use of the force, I just wish it hadn't of come so easy for her. Luke struggled to feel it in ANH and struggled to move a saber 3 ft into the air, let alone from a couple dozen yards away and from the clutches of a trained force user. Even after training with the greatest Jedi master in history, he still fails in his first real confrontation with Vader. Rey just wins, always, and how adept she becomes with its use so quickly ends up feeling unearned.

She knew how to drive that one vehicle she owned, it's not unbelievable that she knew how to fly ships as well. Especially since she constantly worked on them growing up, including the Millennium Falcon iirc. And she most definitely doesn't win all the time with the force. Ren knocked her out easily multiple times with his use of the force and even froze her in place.

 

[ChubbyHuggs]

Rey doesn't learn things too quickly. The editing in TFA just sucks. Like most Abrams movies, the film takes no time to create logical set-ups for its big moments, or to let them resonate after the fact. So Rey does expert piloting, then learns the mind trick, then force grabs the saber from the villain, and then wins her first ever lightsaber duel because all those things are cool to see and JJ doesn't give a shit about how the movie gets to them.

But her actual abilities are totally consistent with the Skywalker family, who are practically demigods.

Ummm, doesn't she do all this in a matter of days. I literally didn't feel like it went past 3 days total where she goes from a ground vehicle to the Millennium Falcon, uses the force to block out a Jedi/Sith (Is Kylo considered a Sith?) who can force read thoughts, learns to do a mind trick after three attempts, over powers that same person when attempting to grab a light saber out of the snow, takes a deep breath and then whoops Kylo's ass. You would think a person trained by Luke would be was stronger, a person with the same blood line, a person who murdered his peers who were also trained.

I haven't watched them in a while, but don't the Skywalkers actually progress over their respective trilogies?

Also, I have a major problem with Fin even standing up to even a wounded Kylo for a second. Dude had his ass handed to him by another Storm Trooper wielding a stun baton.

 

[guek]

She knew how to drive that one vehicle she owned, it's not unbelievable that she knew how to fly ships as well. Especially since she constantly worked on them growing up, including the Millennium Falcon iirc. And she most definitely doesn't win all the time with the force. Ren knocked her out easily multiple times with his use of the force and even froze her in place.

She doesn't win all the time but she does win in some sense every time she actively uses the force.

Knowing how to drive a motorcycle doesn't mean you know anything about flying a jet. Knowing how to build an engine doesn't mean you know how to drive either. They should have just kept Poe "alive" and had him fly them out of Jakku while still giving Ren time to shine as an engineer who knows her way around the mechanics of a ship,

 

[Surfinn]

I don't think there's anything to worry about in terms of Rey continuing to succeed at everything.

If VIII continues the tradition of the second act being the darkest one, she will get wrecked at some point.

Ep. 2 was not, it was Ep. 3. So there's not necessarily a tradition. But it sounds like Ep. 8 will be MUCH darker.

And you can be sure that she gets her ass beat in some way, knocked down a notch.

She spent thousands of hours in a flight simulator and sneaking in and out of ships that came into Jakku, there are plenty of other forms of media that explain her history.

Anakin was the definitive Mary Sue, Luke comes close as well. Rey is not.

Plus she ACTUALLY FLEW a ship on Jakku, after piecing it together (Before the Awakening).

 

[-griffy-]

If outside sources work for you to fill in the gaps, more power to ya, but it's ridiculous to think that should satisfy people who have no intention of doing extra work outside of watching the movie.

I agree that pointing to outside sources isn't a good argument, especially when the movie provides enough context itself. Which it does. She grew up her whole life working in a salvage yard. It's logical that, having grown up her entire life working in a salvage yard, that she'd need to learn all about ships, repair ships, start up the ships to make sure the repairs worked, move ships around the salvage yard, transport ships, etc. It's logical based on the context the movie itself provides.

We know she was left with Unkar Plutt when she was very young. We know she's an adult woman now (around 20 years old or so). That's a significant amount of time spent living and working in a salvage yard. That has been her entire life every day. She says in the movie that she's flown before, just never off planet. She states she is a pilot. We see her pilot the Falcon competently, then we see her do an extraordinary bit of flying that she herself doesn't even know how she accomplished, which is later revealed to be due to the Force awakening in her. Her life experience explains how she can fly a ship, and the Force explains how she can put the Falcon into a controlled freefall to perfectly line up a broken gun to shoot at a moving TIE.

Also, no, having Poe be present for their escape on Jakku completely and utterly undermines Rey as a character. It prevents the relationship between Rey and Finn from developing by robbing their need to work as a team in order to escape (Rey doesn't escape without Finn shooting, and Finn doesn't escape without Rey piloting). It removes the first instance of Rey's Force abilities from manifesting itself when Rey does an impossible bit of flying. It's an important moment for numerous reasons for the two main characters, and giving the victory to Poe would have just needlessly taken away from that.

 

[LegendofLex]

Ummm, doesn't she do all this in a matter of days.

From the perspective of the audience, Luke undergoes his initial Force training and blows up the Death Star over the course of an afternoon.

 

[guek]

I agree that pointing to outside sources isn't a good argument, especially when the movie provides enough context itself. Which it does. She grew up her whole life working in a salvage yard. It's logical that, having grown up her entire life working in a salvage yard, that she'd need to learn all about ships, repair ships, start up the ships to make sure the repairs worked, move ships around the salvage yard, transport ships, etc. It's logical based on the context the movie itself provides.

We know she was left with Unkar Plutt when she was very young. We know she's an adult woman now (around 20 years old or so). That's a significant amount of time spent living and working in a salvage yard. That has been her entire life every day. She says in the movie that she's flown before, just never off planet. She states she is a pilot. We see her pilot the Falcon competently, then we see her do an extraordinary bit of flying that she herself doesn't even know how she accomplished, which is later revealed to be due to the Force awakening in her. Her life experience explains how she can fly a ship, and the Force explains how she can put the Falcon into a controlled freefall to perfectly line up a broken gun to shoot at a moving TIE.

But she's not primarily a mechanic, she's a junker. I'd be more willing to buy your conclusion if we saw her working as a mechanic to make her living but instead we see her as a scavenger. Even if all the pieces are there, it doesn't necessarily make for good filmmaking or storytelling if it's not conveyed in a clear and logical manner. Another example of this from TFA that doesn't have anything to do with Rey is when Han shows up with his freighter the moment they escape from Jakku. It was only after I had gotten out of the movie that I realized it was because the Falcon making a jump activated its homing beacon but the film communicated this very poorly. This was a plot point that was missed by more than just a handful of people, as was the rationale behind Rey's ability to pilot the Falcon so expertly.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

She spent thousands of hours in a flight simulator and sneaking in and out of ships that came into Jakku, there are plenty of other forms of media that explain her history.

Anakin was the definitive Mary Sue, Luke comes close as well. Rey is not.

In the same sense, Anakin was into Pod racing. So it makes sense he knows how to pilot a fast vehicle.

To argue that 'Oh well Rey had her little junker ship that means she could pilot a falcon' and say she's not a Mary Sue, while Anakin worked on Pod Racing machines, whilst arguing that he's a Mary Sue, it's hypocritical.

 

[Principate]

From the perspective of the audience, Luke undergoes his initial Force training and blows up the Death Star over the course of an afternoon.

You could say the same of Rey but she is more powerful in the force in the space of a few hours than someone who is implied to have been training with the force for years and is comparatively pretty OP at that.

 

[Zabka]

But she's not primarily a mechanic, she's a junker. I'd be more willing to buy your conclusion if we saw her working as a mechanic to make her living but instead we see her as a scavenger. Even if all the pieces are there, it doesn't necessarily make for good filmmaking or storytelling if it's not conveyed in a clear and logical manner. Another example of this from TFA that doesn't have anything to do with Rey is when Han shows up with his freighter the moment they escape from Jakku. It was only after I had gotten out of the movie that I realized it was because the Falcon making a jump activated its homing beacon but the film communicated this very poorly. This was a plot point that was missed by more than just a handful of people, as was the rationale behind Rey's ability to pilot the Falcon so expertly.

The movie shows you she's a mechanic. If people are too daft to pick it up when she is FIXING SPACE VEHICLES then it's their own fault.

 

[GhaleonEB]

In the same sense, Anakin was into Pod racing. So it makes sense he knows how to pilot a fast vehicle.

To argue that 'Oh well Rey had her little junker ship that means she could pilot a falcon' and say she's not a Mary Sue, while Anakin worked on Pod Racing machines, whilst arguing that he's a Mary Sue, it's hypocritical.

It was explained in the film. She's flow before, and says so twice. The Falcon was her boss' ship, and she was familiar with updates made on it (the whole running joke about the compressor on the hyperdrive).

On the same note, her flying of the Falcon was the start of her "awakening" that Ren and Snoke sensed. It's a key part of her learning to use the Force.

 

[-griffy-]

But she's not primarily a mechanic, she's a junker. I'd be more willing to buy your conclusion if we saw her working as a mechanic to make her living but instead we see her as a scavenger. Even if all the pieces are there, it doesn't necessarily make for good filmmaking or storytelling if it's not conveyed in a clear and logical manner. Another example of this from TFA that doesn't have anything to do with Rey is when Han shows up with his freighter the moment they escape from Jakku. It was only after I had gotten out of the movie that I realized it was because the Falcon making a jump activated its homing beacon but the film communicated this very poorly. This was a plot point that was missed by more than just a handful of people, as was the rationale behind Rey's ability to pilot the Falcon so expertly.

Again, it's logical deduction. She knows which parts of salvage are valuable and how to restore them. We see this in the film. We then learn throughout the entire film in almost every scene of her on the Falcon that she is clearly a knowledgeable mechanic who has experience. We don't need to waste time establishing this up front when we see it first hand throughout. It's like people need a random character to step in for 10 seconds and say "Hey Rey, nice job doing mechanic stuff on that ship that one time. And piloting stuff that one time. Okay, you'll never see me again in the story, see ya later," instead of the movie just showing us this stuff. It's only a problem if people are unwilling to just accept that the character knows shit for "reasons." People accept that Poe is the best pilot in the Resistance just because it's stated. Of course he is. Why wouldn't he be? But Rey says she's a pilot and suddenly "Woah, hold up here. I'm not buying it." The question shouldn't be "How does Rey know this shit?" but "Why wouldn't Rey know this shit?" The context is there.

 

[Surfinn]

Ummm, doesn't she do all this in a matter of days. I literally didn't feel like it went past 3 days total where she goes from a ground vehicle to the Millennium Falcon, uses the force to block out a Jedi/Sith (Is Kylo considered a Sith?) who can force read thoughts, learns to do a mind trick after three attempts, over powers that same person when attempting to grab a light saber out of the snow, takes a deep breath and then whoops Kylo's ass. You would think a person trained by Luke would be was stronger, a person with the same blood line, a person who murdered his peers who were also trained.

I haven't watched them in a while, but don't the Skywalkers actually progress over their respective trilogies?

Also, I have a major problem with Fin even standing up to even a wounded Kylo for a second. Dude had his ass handed to him by another Storm Trooper wielding a stun baton.

You don't feel like there will be more progression for her as a character and force user?

Kylo was clearly toying with Finn. Even injured and in a weakened mental state, he dominated the fight from beginning to end, only to realize he slightly underestimated his combative abilities (Finn had melee training as a stormtrooper), then proceeds to ruin him. Kylo gives a deliberate "enough fucking around" look and finishes it. He's so much more powerful than Finn that he clocks him in the face before slashing him in the back.

Kylo's character has always been about proving his power. His way of doing that was showing Finn that he really didn't have any chance, slowly exerting his dominance throughout their short encounter.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

The movie shows you she's a mechanic. If people are too daft to pick it up when she is FIXING SPACE VEHICLES then it's their own fault.

She is a mechanic.

However, to me the irony is-

Anakin-Mechanic-Podraces and wins=Mary Sue
Rey-Junker/Mechanic-Flys falcon and successfully evades trained pilots=Not Mary Sue

There is a hypocrisy to be had in this discussion.

In the other thread, I joked that Anakin is the greatest Mary Sue of them all and that Rey is descendant of a Mary Sue therefore she is a Mary Sue(Which as far a Star Wars Film protagonists go, it'd be in line).

But that was me being facetious. She's not a Mary Sue, and neither is Anakin. Luke is the most Mary Sue of them all, but again he has the Skywalker Bloodline.

Heck, if she wasn't a Skywalker, that would make her more likely to be a Mary Sue because it's just a random girl on a random planet abandoned by random parents.

It was explained in the film. She's flow before, and says so twice. The Falcon was her boss' ship, and she was familiar with updates made on it (the whole running joke about the compressor on the hyperdrive).

On the same note, her flying of the Falcon was the start of her "awakening" that Ren and Snoke sensed. It's a key part of her learning to use the Force.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with Rey knowing the Falcon. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy on Anakin being called a Mary Sue(Which I did myself jokingly in the conversation of him being a Mary Sue in the other thread) when he's worked on..Pod Machines...Pod Racers Racers which belonged to his owner, and him being familiar with pod racing, and yet he's somehow a mary sue when Rey is in the same exact situation in terms of knowledge.