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[Stoney Mason]

High risk. Long development cycles with large teams. The second Bioware goes out of fashion -- it has a bomb, or a cancelled game -- you go straight from "profitable" to "huge losses."

As long as they don't make another Jade Empire I think they are safe


On a serious note, I actually think Bioware is in a great position. They are genre kings and now that they are mostly multi-platform outside of Mass Effect, I think they are in a much more solid position.

Especially if they can get the mmo off the ground.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

Honestly I don't know what the fuck happened to Pandemic that they went from Mercenaries to Mercenaries 2 and SW Battlefront to LOTR Conquest, but whatever it was should explain why they have to close

 

[Deku]

I think the question is, why is EA buying studios only to shut them down a few years down the road.

Are they trying to keep those developers out of the hands of rivals? Are they simply spending money to keep potential exclusives away from the competition?

There's a lot of plausible reasons that tends to suggest a predetory practice which relates to EA protecting itself, rather than say, seeing value in a developer and paying a fair price for said developer.

That's why no matter how many circles we go trying to rationalize the 'nature of the games industry' where EA is involved, it does not appear to jive these basic rules of a 'free' market.

 

[charlequin]

I'm sorry to see this happen. I always feel so crappy for the people who get canned like this.

Can't DICE be hit by their relatively unsuccessful new project (Mirror's Edge)?

Cost overruns/delays/cancellations are worse than a single underperforming project. Battlefield has been a consistent huge success, with 1943 just the most recent example and Bad Company 2 sure to do quite well also.

I doubt you'll be seeing another Mirror's Edge though unless it has a crazy smallish budget which seems kind of unlikely.

Our previous understanding was that they were basically hoping to pull off a cost-reducing ME2 reusing the engine and many assets, which I think is probably a better strategy than abandoning it.

Stump basically captures what I would have replied, but I'll just restate: the number of EA teams that are unproductive far exceeds what should be considered reasonable. Most products at EA are succeeding. I can only think of a few bombs, and then you have those performing in line with expectations on a year to year basis. The company is just entirely too large.

Right.

EA's structure now is a remnant of excessive, unguided expansion for years combined with a poor companywide vision for acquisition integration. They bought tons of independent studios, moved them around geographically, took the franchises and genres that made them successful away from them, gutted them, and filled in their shells with new unproven teams without actually coming up with a companywide vision for development: these types of games go here, this stuff gets made by these guys, etc.

What EA really needs is focused teams that have specific areas of expertise, don't have major redundancies, and can ship things on their target platform with some degree of consistency, and that's precisely what they don't have right now.

The obvious problem with this is that today's success is tomorrow's fat.

You correctly identify the reason that every company can't just live on a strategy of firing every team that underperforms, but that isn't necessarily relevant -- it only matters whether EA has too many teams that underperform and (more specifically) too many teams which are structurally positioned to underperform.

What a big developer-publisher like EA needs to really do is figure out a set of core competencies: what types do we make internally, how do we approach making them, what does making these games do for our overall company vision? When you have a team who fills a specific, concrete role effectively (Bioware Alberta -> large-scale RPGs with consistent 1m+ sales, Tiberon -> annual sports) it's worth keeping them around and doing maintenance work on them even during rough patches, but many of EA's studios have little in specific to say "this team needs to stay together because they're good at X."

I think a company structured like EA has to expect a certain amount of constant churn (studio closings, mergers, relocations, or restructurings), but if they're running things well then enough of their total studios would be operating above the bare-minimum bar that they can afford to focus on one particular underachiever at a time. At the moment, though, EA only really has four "strong" studios (Visceral, Bioware, DICE, and Tiburon.)

 

[charlequin]

High risk. Long development cycles with large teams. The second Bioware goes out of fashion -- it has a bomb, or a cancelled game -- you go straight from "profitable" to "huge losses."

Well, you can't really plan your entire business as a mega-pub like EA around never having high-cost, high-return projects like Bioware produces. Their main Edmonton studio with its two teams has been very consistently successful and fairly on-target in terms of scheduling, enough so that I imagine even a serious stumble (a cancelled game) wouldn't bring that operation down into the red.

Bioware Austin is basically going to become EA's MMO division anyway; whoever they keep onboard from Mythic will get folded in there. It doesn't make sense to close them unless EA decides they want to get out of MMOs altogether or SW:TOR does way, way worse than everybody expects.

I have no clue what their Quebec studio is for, though, and that is indeed probably extraneous.

 

[Solo]

High risk. Long development cycles with large teams. The second Bioware goes out of fashion -- it has a bomb, or a cancelled game -- you go straight from "profitable" to "huge losses."

What you say is true, but the bolded is the key issue. Bioware has never put out a bomb (even though I think Jade Empire is a piece of shit, it was still very well received and sold well; good enough that they're talking about a sequel), and they never seem to have development issues or lengthy delays (aside from DA, which falls into both categories). As someone else said, Bioware seems to be in a great position right now and basically are the king of the genre.

I have no clue what their Quebec studio is for, though, and that is indeed probably extraneous.

Opened up do take on extra work on ME2. If any studio were to close, it would be this one, since they just seem to be a support branch, rather than a main development hub like Edmonton (ME, DA) or Austin (SW: TOR).

 

[Madman]

I think it's the right approach in the sense of taking popular and relevant genres and making good games. It's a bit early to say this of course with only Dead Space being out at the moment but I think both Dead Space and Dante's Inferno are good potential franchises for them. They need much better marketing though imo which is another general problem with EA. Their marketing is less effective and less relevant than it use to be for whatever reason. The old EA could sell shit in a box. The new EA has a rough time selling some of their genuinely good games.

Well, it is just that both Dead Space and Dante's Inferno are fairly obvious "copies" of very well done/critically and commercially successful games by other companies. Is this really a great strategy to move forward with? Dead Space didn't exactly light the world on fire sales wise. It did about as well as EAs original IP, Mirrors Edge. And who knows how Dante's Inferno will do, considering Conan (which is arguably a bigger name to the general masses compared to Dante's Inferno) was released to a less then stellar reception all the while being a very similar approach to that of Dante's Inferno(attach known IP to God of War style game).

It could just be marketing. Just looking at their marketing of The Saboteur would support that theory. But unfortunately, that really isn't something that they can fix overnight.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[KZObsessed]

Wow so harsh

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

At the moment, though, EA only really has four "strong" studios (Visceral, Bioware, DICE, and Tiburon.)

I'm not sure I would agree, especially with suggesting that Visceral are stronger than either Maxis or Criterion.

EDIT: Yeah, thinking about it, what the hell is your criteria for 'strong'?
Visceral haven't exactly set the world on fire either critically or fiscally with their output, Bioware haven't really done anything yet since they were acquired too recently to really make any kind of impact under EAs mantle, DICE are solid developers, but ME just flopped pretty badly and Tiburon are not as important to EAs income as EA Canada currently are.

 

[RJT]

hahaha

which one, the NES one, the SNES one, the DuckTales one, or the Where's Waldo one?

Where's Waldo? Link!!!

 

[SovanJedi]

I've never played or been particularly interested in a single game made by Pandemic.

But job losses so close to Christmas in an industry already suffering mass culling sucks tremendously. I hope the guys who work there find new jobs soon!

 

[WrikaWrek]

Shit studio.

I hope the talented people there can find a better team, and that the rest can find some way to make a living.

 

[I AM JOHN!]

I think the question is, why is EA buying studios only to shut them down a few years down the road.

As a lot of people have already said, the sense has always been that Pandemic was merely along for the ride when EA bought Bioware, albeit the high cost they paid for the collective was justifiable since Mercenaries 2 was an EA Partners game and Pandemic was fresh off a series of hits (Mercenaries, Destory All Humans, Full Spectrum Warrior, Battlefront). But they had a lot of canceled projects, including The Dark Knight game which losing that couldn't have made the corporate overlords happy, and the two games they were able to put out were critical and commercial failures, with Saboteur looking to follow suit in the latter fashion. They had their chance and they blew it.

 

[NullPointer]

Honestly I don't know what the fuck happened to Pandemic that they went from Mercenaries to Mercenaries 2 and SW Battlefront to LOTR Conquest, but whatever it was should explain why they have to close

I'd love to know these details. Loved Full Spectrum Warrior and Battlefront, and Mercenaries completely blew me away, and solidified my transition from PC to console gamer. Mercenaries 2 was my main reason for jumping into the next gen, and I couldn't have been let down more by the final result. What happened?

 

[Night_Trekker]

Weak. Mercenaries 1 was the best GTA clone last generation.

 

[DMczaf]

Because of them, I don't have a Dark Knight game.

To hell with them!!

Spoiler

Hopefully they find jobs!

 

[Eggo]

You can remove "rumor" from the title. Just heard from a friend at Pandemic that it's true. Pouring one out for all my homies at Pandemic.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

Weak. Mercenaries 1 was the best GTA clone last generation.

That's selling it short. It genuinely innovated, perhaps as much as GTA3 itself did.

 

[LiK]

confirmed, RIP

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6240463.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;1

 

[shintoki]

Not really shocked at all. They are a big studio, who haven't had a solid hit in years. As much as people love to bring up past works, They still need to be profitable now to continue

 

[Polari]

Sucks for everyone losing their job, but this is the way a company the size of EA operates. Pandemic had a great opportunity to turn Mercenaries into a big franchise and blew it.

At the same time, what were EA thinking paying $800+ million for Bioware and Pandemic? There's something fishy about that whole deal. EA already had more developers than it could really handle, maybe they just got paranoid that someone like Activision would snap them up. We can laugh at Bobby Kotick and his stupid face all we want, but when you look at their acquisitions and what they've achieved with them it's a lot more impressive than EA's track record.

 

[NorrenRadd]

confirmed, RIP

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6240463.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;1

Got some text for those of us blocked @ work?

 

[Vinci]

Sucks for everyone losing their job, but this is the way a company the size of EA operates. Pandemic had a great opportunity to turn Mercenaries into a big franchise and blew it.

At the same time, what were EA thinking paying $800+ million for Bioware and Pandemic? There's something fishy about that whole deal. EA already had more developers than it could really handle, maybe they just got paranoid that someone like Activision would snap them up. We can laugh at Bobby Kotick and his stupid face all we want, but when you look at their acquisitions and what they've achieved with them it's a lot more impressive than EA's track record.

They were probably like, "Well Activision has Blizzard - we need a really strong RPG company that might be able to make the next WoW!"

 

[LiK]

Got some text for those of us blocked @ work?

here ya go

One week ago, Electronic Arts announced that it was laying off 17 percent of its staff, eliminating 1,500 jobs. At the time, the two studios that were reportedly hardest hit were EA Black Box, developer of Skate 3, and Mythic Entertainment, the shop behind the prophetically titled Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning.

Since then, rumors have percolated that EA's Los Angeles studio was also due for some cutbacks. However, today the Redwood City, California-based publisher announced it was closing down not EALA, but the nearby Santa Monica, California-based Pandemic Studios. Sources with knowledge of the closure confirmed it to GameSpot this morning, and EA spokespersons said to "stand by" for an announcement related to the studio. EA reportedly cut ties with Pandemic's Australian satellite studio this past January.

Pandemic's closure comes just over two years after EA announced it was buying the studio's parent company, BioWare/Pandemic, in an $860 million deal. Before then, the 200-person studio--founded in 1998--was best known for developing such titles as Full Spectrum Warrior, Star Wars: Battlefront, and Destroy All Humans!

 

[Sipowicz]

What a big developer-publisher like EA needs to really do is figure out a set of core competencies: what types do we make internally, how do we approach making them, what does making these games do for our overall company vision? When you have a team who fills a specific, concrete role effectively (Bioware Alberta -> large-scale RPGs with consistent 1m+ sales, Tiberon -> annual sports) it's worth keeping them around and doing maintenance work on them even during rough patches, but many of EA's studios have little in specific to say "this team needs to stay together because they're good at X."

i think some of it has to do with them being worthless/unsuccessful on the 3 best selling platforms this gen

as poorly managed as they are i think they would have been alright if they were more prescient about this gen

 

[NorrenRadd]

here ya go

Thanks. Sad times in the games industry these days. I wonder when we will start seeing new studios pop up.

 

[EXGN]

Sucks, stupid PlayFish acquisition.

 

[Javaman]

Any other GAFers play this old Pandemic PC game?

That game was high quality. I really wish someone would bring that franchise back...

And I just noticed that game was published by Activision. Pandemic really has had a rough go of it, haven't they?

Hell yeah! That game was great. I liked the original one too, but it wasn't made by Pandemic? Overall, I'm a quite disappointed by the company. They never released Mercs 1 on the PC and the 360 doesn't play it properly. I double dipped on Mercs2 after enjoying the 360 version by buying the PC version but That POS doesn't even load without crashing on my XP system. Oddly enough it worked fine when I installed Win7 but I had to downgrade back to XP since source games ran super slow.

I hate to see those guys lose their jobs though, especially in this kind of market. With any luck the better programmers will find new work and start cranking out more foot/machine fps games.

 

[Crazymoogle]

EA's already basically repurposed Bioware Austin as their MMO team now that Mythic clearly can't cut it. The only real redundancy here is the Quebec team and I honestly have no idea why that team exists in the first place.

Quebec is basically the new industry elite hotbed, with a metric ton of high profile projects courtesy Ubisoft Montreal, Square-Enix Montreal and EA Montreal. They have strong government subsidies and enough talent swarming that Bioware moving to the province was a no-brainer. Even if EA Montreal is unsuccessful enough to clean house, they would just rehire to fill the studio rather than try to get a cost savings.

EA Quebec, if that's still going, is a mobile studio, I think...remember hearing about them doing cellular games and whatnot.

Solo: Bioware Montreal has some secret projects; they aren't just a support branch AFAIK. Support is really common for expansion teams early on, though; it's not easy to get a studio running right away.

And FWIW I think Bioware actually has exceptional risk management. Multiple, time-seperated, wholly owned IPs that pretty clearly can't be farmed out to other EA divisions, and a slow-burn development cycle allowance so they don't put out a dud. They were basically the second best bet behind Blizzard as far as acquisitions go.

 

[speculawyer]

Assuming it's a direct simile with the actual phenomena, it would be an absolute collapse of a publisher down to the bare essentials. All extraneous matter (protons and electrons, or for publishers, unprofitable studios) are evacuated.

I think what you guys mean is a Neutron Bomb publisher . . . the buildings remain but the people are all gone.

 

[Arhal_Katarn]

Why did EA spend that much on Bioware and Pandemic in the first place? I love Bioware but its not like their games are huge sellers and they don't release games very often either. EA must be counting on SWTOR to make them alot of money.

 

[charlequin]

I'm not sure I would agree, especially with suggesting that Visceral are stronger than either Maxis or Criterion.

EDIT: Yeah, thinking about it, what the hell is your criteria for 'strong'?
Visceral haven't exactly set the world on fire either critically or fiscally with their output, Bioware haven't really done anything yet since they were acquired too recently to really make any kind of impact under EAs mantle, DICE are solid developers, but ME just flopped pretty badly and Tiburon are not as important to EAs income as EA Canada currently are.

In order:

Maxis doesn't exist anymore. It doesn't matter if they used to be strong because the ship has already sailed.

I did manage to skate over Criterion. I don't like car-racing games that much so I often get confused about which brand is which. :lol If Burnout Paradise was successful they probably qualify.

Visceral is positioned to be one of EA's big teams right now. They're consistent (they ship on time) and they show signs of improving on delivery, not getting worse. They're handling a big flagship title for 2010 in the form of Dante's Inferno, so EA clearly thinks that they can both hit targets and produce a solid, saleable game. (Compare to Pandemic who've had problems with almost every project since moving to the current generation.)

Bioware has literally never screwed up big. Every major project they've released in the last decade has been a big hit. They don't have a major history of delays or failures of development; their titles tend to ship looking like what they said they'd look like, don't undergo massive reconceptualizations mid-development, etc.

DICE produces consistently solid results. The Battlefield series has been a big moneymaker for EA for years. They don't screw up releases, they don't take the series off in directions that kill interest, they do have the proven ability to recontextualize it to keep it fresh (see: Battlefield Heroes, Battlefield 1943, Battlefield 2142, etc.) ME was a low-budget new IP that represented a very small risk for the team; EA needs to be able to produce new IPs and having someone like DICE be able to bang out a critically-acclaimed one at a reasonably low pricetag is valuable. (Basically, anyone who can occasionally go out on a limb with new IPs yet still remain in the black internally is valuable to EA.)

I'm not sure what your angle is with Canada vs. Tiburon; Madden is still EA's single most valuable property and it'd be pretty easy to ruin by moving it around. EA Canada doing The Sims 3 doesn't really mean much because EA can take it away from them and give it to someone else exactly the way they took it from Maxis to give it to Black Box. Is it just that they handle most of the other sports titles and so they're more valuable in aggregate than Tiburon's couple of big franchises?

I may just have an inaccurate picture of what's up with EA Canada due to the mergers up there and whatnot.

 

[Ravidrath]

I've confirmed with friends there that they've been laid off, but Gama has some added info.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/..._Pandemic_Consolidation_Van_Caneghem_Hire.php

Mercenaries developer Pandemic is to close doors, with a core IP team consolidated into Electronic Arts' EA Los Angeles studio.

According to a leaked internal memo obtained by Gamasutra, Pandemic founders Josh Resnick, Andrew Goldman and Greg Borrud will leave the company, and the remainder of the Pandemic team will report to EALA's Sean Decker.

The cuts are part of a new round of layoffs and restructuring EA recently announced as its second fiscal quarter saw its losses widen to $391 million; the publisher plans to cut 1,500 jobs by April 2010.

EALA will become a "showcase for the 'fewer things better'" initiative, the memo says, describing a "re-invention" of the Medal of Honor franchise.

It's also noted that Might and Magic creator Jon Van Caneghem, who recently "transitioned out" of his role as president of Trion World Networks, has joined EA to lead the Command and Conquer brand with "a new digital model that is going to re-ignite the fan base for this franchise."

"I want to make it clear that the Pandemic brand and franchises will live on," reads the memo. "In the months ahead, we will announce plans for new games based on Pandemic franchises."

 

[2real4tv]

Damn thats alot of jobs how big is EA

 

[Pimpbaa]

This sucks. I like their games.

 

[andycapps]

I've confirmed with friends there that they've been laid off, but Gama has some added info.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/..._Pandemic_Consolidation_Van_Caneghem_Hire.php

So upper management was canned and the existing employees moved into EA proper, basically? Sucks for the management involved, but if true, it's good for the rest of the employees that they weren't given the axe.

 

[charlequin]

Why did EA spend that much on Bioware and Pandemic in the first place?

Because doing so made CEO John Riccitiello like 5 million dollars.

Quebec is basically the new industry elite hotbed, with a metric ton of high profile projects courtesy Ubisoft Montreal, Square-Enix Montreal and EA Montreal. They have strong government subsidies and enough talent swarming that Bioware moving to the province was a no-brainer.

I'm not sure how having an expansion team is useful here, though. Bioware proper has a proven track record; I'm not sure how a new team under the same umbrella brings anything to the table.

 

[Pachimari]

"In the months ahead, we will announce plans for new games based on Pandemic franchises."

So who is working on the Pandemic franchises? EALA (working on Medal of Honor as well) or the Command & Conquer team (who'll close after the release of c&c4) ?

 

[Iron Toaster]

Their latest games weren't all that great anyway. Ah well.

 

[speculawyer]

At the same time, what were EA thinking paying $800+ million for Bioware and Pandemic? There's something fishy about that whole deal. EA already had more developers than it could really handle, maybe they just got paranoid that someone like Activision would snap them up. We can laugh at Bobby Kotick and his stupid face all we want, but when you look at their acquisitions and what they've achieved with them it's a lot more impressive than EA's track record.

It is a story called "self-dealing". The Pie-man had EA buy the developers from a fund he was partner in and thus personally made a lot of money.

I think Bioware & Pandemic are both great developers . . . but the bloated price EA paid for them was ridiculous. More than twice as much as MS paid for Rare. And that Rare deal was viewed as an over-payment that failed big time.

So the acquisition itself wasn't crazy. But paying such a huge sum for 2 developers partly owned by the EA CEO was crazy.


For some perspective, EA wanted to pay just a little more than twice that amount for ALL of Take-Two . . . and that would includes a ton of brands/IPs (GTA, Bully, Red Dead, Mafia, Bioshock, Civilization, 2K Sports, etc.) and a ton of studios (2K Czech, 2K Boston, Rockstar North, Rockstar Toronto, Rockstar San Diego, 2K Australia, Visual Concepts, Rockstar Vancouver, Rockstar New England, Rockstar London, PAM studios, Cat Daddy, and more.)

So it is pretty clear that EA was willing to pay a bloated price for something that the CEO had a personal interest in.

 

[thetrin]

I'm assuming that when they took Bioware, the fact that they were partnered with Pandemic meant they had to take both as a package.

If they could have, I'm sure EA would have JUST taken Bioware.

 

[leroy hacker]

I think the question is, why is EA buying studios only to shut them down a few years down the road.

For the specific case of Pandemic, Speculawyer earlier identified a significant answer: Riccitiello sold the studio to himself and personally made ~$5 million in profit.

Edit: woops, beaten twice over.

 

[speculawyer]

Pandemic's closure comes just over two years after EA announced it was buying the studio's parent company, BioWare/Pandemic, in an $860 million deal.

2 years. Wow.

OK . . . can someone create the master list of EA purchases and close-downs? Something like this:

Pandemic
Maxis
Origin
Bullfrog
Westwood

What else?

 

[charlequin]

So upper management was canned and the existing employees moved into EA proper, basically? Sucks for the management involved, but if true, it's good for the rest of the employees that they weren't given the axe.

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure "core IP team" means a small portion of select employees they'll be carrying over while everyone else is let go.

 

[Javaman]

I've confirmed with friends there that they've been laid off, but Gama has some added info.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/..._Pandemic_Consolidation_Van_Caneghem_Hire.php

describing a "re-invention" of the Medal of Honor franchise.

I don't like the sound of that.

 

[I AM JOHN!]

So who is working on the Pandemic franchises? EALA (working on Medal of Honor as well) or the Command & Conquer team (who'll close after the release of c&c4) ?

EA Montreal is apparently being given The Saboteur. Nothing else has been reported on, but considering the only other IP Pandemic owns is Mercenaries, I'd imagine that the fact that the last one did poorly has sealed the series' fate.

Interesting note about Command and Conquer in the Gamasutra article. I guess that says why the C&C team is being given the boot after 4 comes out (and also why Greg Kasavin left for 2K Marin some months back), but I have to wonder what they're planning. Adopting the Korean/Chinese F2P model, maybe?

OK . . . can someone create the master list of EA purchases and close-downs? Something like this:

Pandemic
Maxis
Origin
Bullfrog
Westwood

What else?

DICE's Canadian branch, who was shut down minutes after EA finished acquiring DICE.

 

[Ardorx]

Pandemic wasn't exactly a quality studio so while it sucks people are out of work, I can't say I'm sad to see them go.

 

[Crazymoogle]

I'm not sure how having an expansion team is useful here, though. Bioware proper has a proven track record; I'm not sure how a new team under the same umbrella brings anything to the table.

It's tactically useful for two reasons:

1. Eases churn rate. Bioware Edmonton is a nice enough place to work, I'm told, but it's also geographically isolated from the rest of the industry, and as anyone who has lived in Alberta knows, it's not a mild climate. :lol Instead of risking losing a chunk of your staff over time, why not get them started in another studio under the same umbrella? This way they can also take the Edmonton track record with them, as opposed to a completely new startup like SE-Montreal was.

2. Budget and international considerations. For one, there's the government discount already mentioned. Second, Canada is far, far easier right now for supporting tech immigration. There's a reason why Microsoft expanded in Vancouver; it's because they can actually hire people to work there.

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

hahaha

That's what these assholes get for releasing Mercenaries 2. Justice served.

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Indeed.