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[DiamondDog74]

If I were to surmise the argument here, it must be folks saying TFA is bad because of the story being similar to ANH. Honestly that's fine by me. I don't want anything resembling 1-3.

 

[bishopcruz]

If I were to surmise the argument here, it must be folks saying TFA is bad because of the story being similar to ANH. Honestly that's fine by me. I don't want anything resembling 1-3.

The similarities in the story is only part of why TFA disappoints. It is, by most measures a more entertaining movie than any of the prequels, more competently directed, and with better acting. The story and characters though, are crap. They may get better later, but they are still crap.

I think it's also telling that nearly every time they had the choice to do something interesting and new, or just ape the OT, they chose the latter. It's how Snoke goes from an otherworldly female beauty to yet another ancient looking evil dude. Instead of new ship designs, we got X-wings and TIE Fighters again. Instead of Leia leading the assault on the Starkiller from her own badass supership, we get a few X-wings replaying the end of ANH. Instead of Jakku being a volcanic ice planet, we get discount Tattooine.

The amount of wasted potential is amazing.

 

[Random17]

I was ridiculously impressed by Tarkin, the dude's dead and they still managed to bring him back.

 

[horkrux]

And since you're done reading my posts I'm done wasting my time commenting on this kind of stuff. I literally just explained to you how completely different the Han death scene was from Obi-Wan's (how it's a DIRECT CONTRAST with Vader's decision to save Luke and not a mirror of the confrontation in ANH). It's like I'm talking to a brick wall..

I'm not 'done reading your posts', I rarely ever have these kinds of long-stretched forum discussions and sometimes I accidentally skim over important parts or flat-out read them wrong. Sorry..

Anyway..

I'm not sure why this particular part was so important to you though, since it was a simple statement of yours (where was the explanation you claim to have given?), so it's not like I brushed over your arguments here. If you had given that explanation, I would have been way more likely to not confuse it.
You somehow refuse to see the similiarities to the duel between Obi Wan and Vader here, when it clearly takes its cues from both scenes. I agree it's also comparable to the situation Vader/Luke was in in RoTJ, but that's not the only way to look at it. Aside from the obvious similiarities in setup, Obi Wan gained power by losing to his former apprentice, while in TFA this is reversed so that Kylo gains resolve by killing his father.
It doesn't matter whether its a duel or just murder, because it was a duel in both other scenes.

How is it a moot point? Are you suggesting that the opening crawl (which outlines the film and where it's going) is irrelevant as long as the action is good? What? If you're relying on action scenes to cover for a contrived opening crawl you know something has gone terribly wrong. That's what the crawl is for.. this is like super basic stuff and it seems like you're just arguing for the sake of argument at this point.

Again, I could throw this right back. I wasn't talking simply about the action scenes, but that the story itself takes a different turn here than how you would have thought just by reading the opening crawl.
The Trade Federation is talking to a Sith, so you learn there is a greater evil working in the background here. This is plain story. After that - and that was simply to counter your 'boredom' argument - action takes place instead of simply a 'boring' meeting with the viceroy. So why even still talk about the opening crawl at that time, hence why I think it's moot.
But why is it contrived? It's just not that important by its own, but it becomes the pretense for much more.

Google is your friend.. I just did a search for The Phantom Menace initial reviews and there is a lot of stuff there including critic and fan reactions. Lots are good, yes, but lots are very bad. It got way worse after the film sat in theaters for a few weeks though (after the visual effects splendor washed away).

You know, you could have just linked the source to that. You were the one saying the movie fell through after a short honeymoon period. I was simply questioning that. Not even talking about reviews here, simply how the audience initially perceived the movie.

George Lucas at one point said he is "the key to all this", in regard to the story. You're acting as though he's some background character that appears in a couple scenes for kids. Everyone makes a big deal about him because he's terrible and ruined a huge part of TPM by being a main character.

I have no idea why you seem to think my opinion is in the minority.

Well, he leads them to his people, which was surely important enough, but aside from that he just acted goofy for the most part.

Again, I've never claimed your opinion was in the minority. Where are you getting that from? We both agree he is a terrible character and the only thing I disagree with is that even kids don't like him.
It seems to be impossible to keep Jar Jar out of a TPM discussion. He was so bad, he ruined the movie, I get it. I regret even mentioning his name.

The point I was trying to make is that the vast majority of the differences in the story have to do with deeper and more meaningful components (ie CHARACTERS and where they're going/who they might be in the coming films), which is a hell of a lot more interesting than the way the film looks or the surface similarities between basic plot points (not to say they shouldn't have been more creative visually, which I hope will be rectified in EP8/9).

Those 'surface familiarities' amount to essentially almost the entire storyline. Individually, most of these are superficial for sure, but when you're watching the movie and it follows this framework of story points from beginning to almost the end, it has a meaningful impact. Especially when the original story events in between make no sense or are simply badly thought out.

I couldn't look past that, even if the movie has its own set of likable characters that went through a different development.

 

[mcz117chief]

So I finally forced myself to see and BOY AM I GLAD I DID. The best Star Wars since the 80s, absolutely positively it is. This movie is almost flawless. GREAT movie, one for the ages. Jyn Erso is the best female character in Star Wars, the actress totally blew all of the other ones away. This movie just shows that you CAN make a good Star Wars movie, J.J.Abrams should feel ashamed.

 

[Zelenogorsk]

Donnie Yen turning his staff into a grenade bow and hitting that Tie-Fighter was hands down the coolest thing I've ever seen in a Star Wars film. I might see it in theaters again just for that moment.

I loved finally getting a Star Wars film that acknowledges the fact that X-Wings are cooler than Jedis.

Makes me want to go watch RotJ (I've only seen IV, V, VII, and Rogue One).

 

[kaizoku]

Decent film, but a lot of things happened that didn't make sense to me or felt weak/shallow.

Jyn's mother dying - totally didn't have to do any of that, you shouldn't have gone back, also you should've shot first and got a kill ffs. Surely any mother would choose to live and raise her daughter than die in some weird statement.

Saw/Forest Whittaker going from passionate rebel leader to not wanting to run away anymore and dying - nonsense.

Jyn had a nice attitude and everything but didn't really display any skills or attributes that should've made such an impact on a heavily defended base and effectively struck a killing blow to the empire. She didn't DO an awful lot.

 

[PeskyToaster]

I'm not 'done reading your posts', I rarely ever have these kinds of long-stretched forum discussions and sometimes I accidentally skim over important parts or flat-out read them wrong. Sorry..

Anyway..

I'm not sure why this particular part was so important to you though, since it was a simple statement of yours (where was the explanation you claim to have given?), so it's not like I brushed over your arguments here. If you had given that explanation, I would have been way more likely to not confuse it.
You somehow refuse to see the similiarities to the duel between Obi Wan and Vader here, when it clearly takes its cues from both scenes. I agree it's also comparable to the situation Vader/Luke was in in RoTJ, but that's not the only way to look at it. Aside from the obvious similiarities in setup, Obi Wan gained power by losing to his former apprentice, while in TFA this is reversed so that Kylo gains resolve by killing his father.
It doesn't matter whether its a duel or just murder, because it was a duel in both other scenes.



Again, I could throw this right back. I wasn't talking simply about the action scenes, but that the story itself takes a different turn here than how you would have thought just by reading the opening crawl.
The Trade Federation is talking to a Sith, so you learn there is a greater evil working in the background here. This is plain story. After that - and that was simply to counter your 'boredom' argument - action takes place instead of simply a 'boring' meeting with the viceroy. So why even still talk about the opening crawl at that time, hence why I think it's moot.
But why is it contrived? It's just not that important by its own, but it becomes the pretense for much more.



You know, you could have just linked the source to that. You were the one saying the movie fell through after a short honeymoon period. I was simply questioning that. Not even talking about reviews here, simply how the audience initially perceived the movie.



Well, he leads them to his people, which was surely important enough, but aside from that he just acted goofy for the most part.

Again, I've never claimed your opinion was in the minority. Where are you getting that from? We both agree he is a terrible character and the only thing I disagree with is that even kids don't like him.
It seems to be impossible to keep Jar Jar out of a TPM discussion. He was so bad, he ruined the movie, I get it. I regret even mentioning his name.



Those 'surface familiarities' amount to essentially almost the entire storyline. Individually, most of these are superficial for sure, but when you're watching the movie and it follows this framework of story points from beginning to almost the end, it has a meaningful impact. Especially when the original story events in between make no sense or are simply badly thought out.

I couldn't look past that, even if the movie has its own set of likable characters that went through a different development.

It's only the same if you reduce a movie to a series of generalized plot points and ignore about everything else. Similar to believing that spoilers as they are defined today actual 'spoil' something.

 

[Pejo]

Finally caught this movie last night. I went in to this movie with ultra low expectations, coming fresh off from disliking TFA.

I was kinda impressed by the end of it though. Much smaller in scale and it filled in some blanks regarding the death star. The characters were mostly believable and likable, and that Droid was a perfect side character. I was genuinely sad to see him go.

Anyways, I hope Disney takes this angle for future SW movies, and less Force Jesus Rey crap. Vader scene was great.

 

[HardRojo]

Watched it today. In short, I really liked it and was surprised by it. It's definitely one of my favorite Star Wars movies, among top 3 perhaps. Now, I've never been a huge Star Wars fan, I like the franchise enough to read about a few things just to know a bit more, but nothing crazy, so my opinion is probably closer to that of your average movie watcher.
I didn't find the beginning dull and the "Are you kidding? I'm blind!" had the whole room in laughter. If the next films are in the same vein then count me the fuck in! Peter Cushing was amazing, even if he's no longer among us, I'm glad he was present in this movie. Not much of a fan of Diego Luna though, it'd be nice if he could improve his accent, it's somewhat jarring in everything he's in, and I'm saying this as a South American who has an accent when speaking English.

 

[JS3DX]

I really wish we could get stats on how many people (who didn't know the actor is dead) recognized that Tarkin was CGI. I'm willing to be it's a LOT lower than people think, despite being noticeable upon inspection.

I know a lot of people who didn't recognize it s GCI, but for me was noticeable: When Tarkin was side to side with real actors, he looked like somewhat cartoonish in its proportions.

It was a mix of dead eyes and "maybe we overdid it with the long face"

 

[Lifejumper]

I know a lot of people who didn't recognize it s GCI, but for me was noticeable: When Tarkin was side to side with real actors, he looked like somewhat cartoonish in its proportions.

It was a mix of dead eyes and "maybe we overdid it with the long face"

The facial animations took me out of it. It was too animated.

 

[darklin0]

I know a lot of people who didn't recognize it s GCI, but for me was noticeable: When Tarkin was side to side with real actors, he looked like somewhat cartoonish in its proportions.

It was a mix of dead eyes and "maybe we overdid it with the long face"

Could of been due to a 3D showing as well.

I was impressed at how well it looked for CG when I saw him the first time. When I watched the film again without 3D it was much more noticeable.

 

[Lupercal]

So I finally forced myself to see and BOY AM I GLAD I DID. The best Star Wars since the 80s, absolutely positively it is. This movie is almost flawless. GREAT movie, one for the ages. Jyn Erso is the best female character in Star Wars, the actress totally blew all of the other ones away. This movie just shows that you CAN make a good Star Wars movie, J.J.Abrams should feel ashamed.

Man, you must be really into bland, emotionless chicks.

 

[Surfinn]

I know a lot of people who didn't recognize it s GCI, but for me was noticeable: When Tarkin was side to side with real actors, he looked like somewhat cartoonish in its proportions.

It was a mix of dead eyes and "maybe we overdid it with the long face"

As others have said, I do think he was overanimated, but I'm not to sure he was disproportionate. Definitely far from perfect but considering what they had to work with, I thought it was very impressive.

So I finally forced myself to see and BOY AM I GLAD I DID. The best Star Wars since the 80s, absolutely positively it is. This movie is almost flawless. GREAT movie, one for the ages. Jyn Erso is the best female character in Star Wars, the actress totally blew all of the other ones away. This movie just shows that you CAN make a good Star Wars movie, J.J.Abrams should feel ashamed.

Jyn is better than.. Rey.. AND Leia?

 

[iosefe]

did some looking back on old stuff
http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottme...ce-of-a-lighter-star-wars-story/#31bf68272cc5

^Hilarious in hindsight

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

So I finally forced myself to see and BOY AM I GLAD I DID. The best Star Wars since the 80s, absolutely positively it is. This movie is almost flawless. GREAT movie, one for the ages. Jyn Erso is the best female character in Star Wars, the actress totally blew all of the other ones away. This movie just shows that you CAN make a good Star Wars movie, J.J.Abrams should feel ashamed.

Considering his film is the best reviewed Star Wars movie since ESB, made almost a billion dollars in the US alone and more than two billion worldwide, and basically saved Star Wars after the prequel trilogy shitfest, I'm sure J.J. feels just fine.

 

[mcz117chief]

Jyn is better than.. Rey.. AND Leia?

Vastly better than Rey (Rey is pretty much the worst protagonist in Star Wars by a huge margin) and better than Leia. Jyn feels incredible, fresh, believable and is a fantastic anchor for the whole movie.

Considering his film is the best reviewed Star Wars movie since ESB, made almost a billion dollars in the US alone and more than two billion worldwide, and basically saved Star Wars after the prequel trilogy shitfest, I'm sure J.J. feels just fine.

It was still an utter tripe. Just because it sold well doesn't make it a good movie. People went in just because it's Star Wars and it wasn't an absolute catastrophe like the prequels. The Force Awakens is not a good movie.

I'm going to go see the movie again, I haven't done that ever in my life.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Vastly better than Rey (Rey is pretty much the worst protagonist in Star Wars by a huge margin) and better than Leia. Jyn feels incredible, fresh, believable and is a fantastic anchor for the whole movie.



It was still an utter tripe. Just because it sold well doesn't make it a good movie. People went in just because it's Star Wars and it wasn't an absolute catastrophe like the prequels. The Force Awakens is not a good movie.

I'm going to go see the movie again, I haven't done that ever in my life.

If it was just a case of people wanting to see a non-shit Star Wars movie, why is Rogue One tracking so far below TFA, despite playing in more theaters? Obviously it's still doing well, but nowhere near TFA numbers. And if you say it's just because there was so much pent up demand, I can only say let's wait and see what happens with Episode VIII. If it's as good a movie as TFA, don't be surprised if it sees similar numbers and also eclipses RO.

Of course now that I've seen your opinion on Jyn as "fresh" and "believable," I think I can safely disregard any of your opinions.

 

[mcz117chief]

Of course now that I've seen your opinion on Jyn as "fresh" and "believable," I think I can safely disregard any of your opinions.

cool

 

[QuantumZebra]

I see Surfinn is in here doing God's Work in smiting "TFA=ANH" clowns and generic haters.

Rogue One is settling in nicely in my pantheon of sci-fi films, I loved it.

Right now I'm feeling ESB>ANH=TFA>ROTJ=R1 (The prequel trilogy never happened)

As always the end of ROTJ is >>> all, except TFA's ending is close behind

Vastly better than Rey (Rey is pretty much the worst protagonist in Star Wars by a huge margin)

Aaand im outta here

Spoiler

Rey is tied with Han and Leia for the best protagonist in SW (unless VIII and IX suck somehow). Luke was a whiny bitch until ROTJ and I don't even know who the protagonists were in the PT other than Obi-Wan (the only redeeming thing in that shitpile outside of Ian McDiarmid hamming it up).

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Just saw this. MUCH better than TFA. The CGI for that character was off putting though. Wasn't a fan of that, but aside from that I really enjoyed it. The second half of the movie was stunning.

 

[zoukka]

Wow someone just called Jyn "incredible".

 

[mcz117chief]

Wow someone just called Jyn "incredible".

That was me

Just saw this. MUCH better than TFA.

word, mate

 

[televator]

So I finally forced myself to see and BOY AM I GLAD I DID. The best Star Wars since the 80s, absolutely positively it is. This movie is almost flawless. GREAT movie, one for the ages. Jyn Erso is the best female character in Star Wars, the actress totally blew all of the other ones away.

I liked the movie too, but that's not how you spell Ahsoka Tano.

 

[mcz117chief]

I liked the movie too, but that's not how you spell Ahsoka Tano.

Well, it's because I wasn't trying to

 

[Zabka]

Wow someone just called Jyn "incredible".

She good climber and

 

[Surfinn]

Vastly better than Rey (Rey is pretty much the worst protagonist in Star Wars by a huge margin) and better than Leia. Jyn feels incredible, fresh, believable and is a fantastic anchor for the whole movie.



It was still an utter tripe. Just because it sold well doesn't make it a good movie. People went in just because it's Star Wars and it wasn't an absolute catastrophe like the prequels. The Force Awakens is not a good movie.

I'm going to go see the movie again, I haven't done that ever in my life.

Completely disagree with your opinion that Rey is somehow the worst protagonist in SW. I do like Jones as Jyn in R1, but objectively, I think it's very difficult to argue that she does a better job anchoring R1 than Rey does in TFA (which was entirely based on who she is and where she'll go on her hero's journey). Rey has more depth with her character through visual/inferential storytelling alone than Jyn has in R1. Jyn should have been more fleshed out and I was very disappointed that we shy so far off course from her relationship with her father and how that has shaped/changed her character. Rey's simple question for BB-8 ("Who are you?") is a more interesting moment than Jyn gets in nearly the entire film of R1, IMO.

I do think it's telling that the film is in the 2B club. It's difficult to suggest it's largely accepted as a less than good film, coupled with critic and fan reviews. I also feel like so much of what makes TFA great was simply missed by a large percentage of audiences.

In regard to the bold.. like many other people on these forums, you're seriously underplaying the fact that TFA achieved 2B.

 

[Einchy]

It was still an utter tripe. Just because it sold well doesn't make it a good movie. People went in just because it's Star Wars and it wasn't an absolute catastrophe like the prequels. The Force Awakens is not a good movie.

I'm going to go see the movie again, I haven't done that ever in my life.

I like the part where you ignore that it got great reviews.

If you dislike TFA, then you're in a tiny minority. That movie not only made billions, was beloved by fans and casual viewers alike, but it relaunched the Star Wars brand.

 

[-griffy-]

It was still an utter tripe. Just because it sold well doesn't make it a good movie. People went in just because it's Star Wars and it wasn't an absolute catastrophe like the prequels. The Force Awakens is not a good movie.

Don't act like you are the enlightened one who saw through the bullshit where others couldn't. It's not a good look. You didn't like the movie, that's it. That doesn't negate the opinion of others.

 

[cartesian]

If it was just a case of people wanting to see a non-shit Star Wars movie, why is Rogue One tracking so far below TFA, despite playing in more theaters? Obviously it's still doing well, but nowhere near TFA numbers. And if you say it's just because there was so much pent up demand, I can only say let's wait and see what happens with Episode VIII. If it's as good a movie as TFA, don't be surprised if it sees similar numbers and also eclipses RO.

In fairness, box office takings are a fairly unreliable measure of a movie's quality and you can't infer too much about whether TFA is better than RO (or vice-versa) based on each movie's takings. There are a range of factors which can plausibly explain why TFA outperformed RO in revenue terms, independent of the quality of each movie.

TFA was the first Star Wars in many years, it's Episode VII and it continues the main arc, it's the first movie to reveal what happened to old favourites like Han and Leia, the first movie to launch a new story era/setting since The Phantom Menace, and so on. That kind of combined multiplier effect is truly phenomenal. I don't think any spin-off movie, no matter how good, will match that kind of cultural impact.

Rogue One has none of those advantages in generating mass market buzz, it occupies a relatively niche role in the story, and it isn't a sequel, so it isn't essential viewing for understanding the Star Wars story. It would've been very surprising - to me at least - if Rogue One had out-performed TFA at the box-office and it'll be very surprising if Episode 8 doesn't out-perform Rogue One in turn.

The prequels enjoyed fantastic box office takings, but few would agree that that The Phantom Menace is superior to The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.

 

[mcz117chief]

Don't act like you are the enlightened one who saw through the bullshit where others couldn't. It's not a good look. You didn't like the movie, that's it. That doesn't negate the opinion of others.

Well, I have yet to meet someone who would say the movie is not bad, I know a lot of people who saw it and none were impressed with VII, on the other hand my super critical brother and his girlfriend absolutely loved Rogue One.

 

[-griffy-]

Well, I have yet to meet someone who would say the movie is not bad, I know a lot of people who saw it and none were impressed with VII, on the other hand my super critical brother and his girlfriend absolutely loved Rogue One.

Oh shit well that anecdotal evidence delivered on a video game message board completely changes everything.

 

[Surfinn]

Well, I have yet to meet someone who would say the movie is not bad, I know a lot of people who saw it and none were impressed with VII, on the other hand my super critical brother and his girlfriend absolutely loved Rogue One.

Somehow I seriously doubt that.

I will also add that I find it very odd that you hold R1 in such high regard when it suffered from a lot of the same issues TFA did (alongside very similar criticisms).

 

[mcz117chief]

Oh shit well that anecdotal evidence delivered on a video game message board completely changes everything.

Somehow I seriously doubt that.

I will also add that I find it very odd that you hold R1 in such high regard when it suffered from a lot of the same issues TFA did (alongside very similar criticisms).

I think it has something to do with national mentality. Some movies generally resonate better with different audiences. A movie can be loved in one country and disliked in the other, people aren't as homogeneous as they might seem.

Out of all the people I know who have seen the movie my dad gave it the best review saying it was "ok, forgettable but ok overall" with everyone else disliking it. I also thought it wasn't terrible, but I was very disappointed in general.

 

[Einchy]

Movie gets 92% on RT, makes 2 billion dollars, and the next movie in the franchise will go on to make one billion based on the success of the first movie, but no one liked it.

[edit]

Just to compare, a movie with Batman and Superman that was critically panned when it came out has already made less than Rogue One(a movie starring a bunch of new characters), I think that should tell you how much good will TFA garnered among viewers.

 

[mcz117chief]

Movie gets 92% on RT, makes 2 billion dollars, and the next movie in the franchise will go on to make one billion based on the success of the first movie, but no one liked it.

[edit]

Just to compare, a movie with Batman and Superman that was panned when it came out has already made less than Rogue One, I think that should tell you how much good will TFA garnered among viewers.

I suppose I should have been more specific and say that I didn't like the movie and my circle of friends and acquaintances didn't also. There are obviously people who liked the movie out there like with any kind of product but I still stand by my opinion that Rogue One is my favourite Star Wars movie along with A New Hope.

 

[Surfinn]

I think it has something to do with national mentality. Some movies generally resonate better with different audiences. A movie can be loved in one country and disliked in the other, people aren't as homogeneous as they might seem.

Out of all the people I know who have seen the movie my dad gave it the best review saying it was "ok, forgettable but ok overall" with everyone else disliking it. I also thought it wasn't terrible, but I was very disappointed in general.

But do you see how the few people around you are in a pretty extreme minority in regard to critic/fan reception? Bad movies don't hit 2B, it's pretty much as simple as that. At least not yet.

I suppose I should have been more specific and say that I didn't like the movie and my circle of friends and acquaintances didn't also. There are obviously people who liked the movie out there like with any kind of product but I still stand by my opinion that Rogue One is my favourite Star Wars movie along with A New Hope.

I don't think anyone here has an issue with you enjoying the film more than TFA, as lots of people hold the same opinion, but the way you praise R1 and shit on TFA is pretty bizarre, from an objective standpoint.

I'll also say that I think people have an issue with the way you're framing the bolded. You're pretending like there's only a minority of people who liked TFA when in fact it's the vast majority.

 

[Roders5]

So I finally forced myself to see and BOY AM I GLAD I DID. The best Star Wars since the 80s, absolutely positively it is. This movie is almost flawless. GREAT movie, one for the ages. Jyn Erso is the best female character in Star Wars, the actress totally blew all of the other ones away. This movie just shows that you CAN make a good Star Wars movie, J.J.Abrams should feel ashamed.

One of the most famous and well loved female characters of all time gets completely blown away by someone in a movie you've seen once, a few hours ago. Fuck me.

 

[mcz117chief]

But do you see how the few people around you are in a pretty extreme minority in regard to critic/fan reception? Bad movies don't hit 2B, it's pretty much as simple as that. At least not yet.

Arrright, I guess I was wrong, can you forgive me, please? I was just saying how I felt about the whole thing. And I don't mean it in a sarcastic way, I just want to apologise if I offended you.

One of the most famous and well loved female characters of all time gets completely blown away by someone in a movie you've seen once, a few hours ago. Fuck me.

I don't know which one you are referring to (some say Rey, some say Ashoka or Leia) but none of these characters really felt good to me. Leia is obviously the best of the 3 but I still like Jyn more.

 

[Surfinn]

Arrright, I guess I was wrong, can you forgive me, please? I was just saying how I felt about the whole thing. And I don't mean it in a sarcastic way, I just want to apologise if I offended you.



I don't know which one you are referring to (some say Rey, some say Ashoka or Leia) but none of these characters really felt good to me. Leia is obviously the best of the 3 but I still like Jyn more.

No offense taken at all. Just conversing.

 

[mcz117chief]

No offense taken at all. Just conversing.

arrright, no hard feelings, I hope

To continue though, I don't really "shit on TFA" even thought it might have seem like it. It just wasn't my cup of tea at all. The plot was moving too fast, the characters were developing too fast and there were no properly defined villains. I just found Rogue One vastly more enjoyable.

 

[Showaddy]

Saw it last night with my other half who knows absolutely nothing about Star Wars. Was pretty disappointed myself but she seemed to love it and now wants to watch the the rest of the films so I guess it worked?

 

[Surfinn]

arrright, no hard feelings, I hope

To continue though, I don't really "shit on TFA" even thought it might have seem like it. It just wasn't my cup of tea at all. The plot was moving too fast, the characters were developing too fast and there were no properly defined villains. I just found Rogue One vastly more enjoyable.

Nope none at all. Sorry if I gave that impression.

You didn't think Kylo Ren was properly defined?

 

[Into the Light]

Those last 10 min were better than anything the PT put out.

 

[mcz117chief]

You didn't think Kylo Ren was properly defined?

Yes of course, he is by far my favourite part of the film and that is the reason why I am looking forward to the next one, but he doesn't feel like a proper villain. It's mostly because of Rey's weird character development that really destroyed the movie for me. Her character was developing super fast gaining super powers left and right, destroying the opposition effortlessly. It felt like she was never in any danger and managed to defeat her rival right there in the first movie. There was no satisfaction of seeing Rey grow over the movies, gaining knowledge and experience on her great journey. It's like if Luke managed to duel Vader in Episode 4 and win, it felt like it didn't give any villains a chance therefore making them feel weak.

What I meant by "no properly defined villains" is that Kylo Ren was shown as someone who is not an actual villain, he struggles with being the bad guy and will almost certainly turn good by the end of the trilogy. You might argue that Vader is the same but at least it wasn't obvious in the 4th movie where he was a strong and obvious villain. Kylo Ren looks like a confused kid who desperately seeks attention, not an evil galactic warlord who has couple of planetary genocides under his belt. Snoke appeared only in few short scenes, the general duded was just a dude and Phasma vanished without doing anything. There really weren't any proper villains in the movie.

I sincerely hope that Kylo Ren becomes more powerful in the next movie and Rei not so much so that there is some actual struggle in the next movie because if Rei wins in the next movie then it's gonna feel really cheap, like a Saturday morning cartoon where good guys always have to win by the end of the episode.

 

[beyond_death]

Hearing that the Vader slaughtering rebel scene is a reshoot, all I have to say that thank god the people who made the film read Gaf.

 

[Adam_Vania]

i recently rewatched TFA. i think it's a better movie, with better characters, more interesting visuals (esp the snow lightsaber battle), better music, more compelling villain, etc. the way they set up all the mysteries, the Rey stuff, Luke's lightsaber, all that, was done flawlessly, and i got to give it to J.J. for bringing in that much-needed Lost-style of storytelling.

the only thing i could hold against TFA v R1 is the re-doing the Death Star thing, which is a mute point cos R1 doesn't even bother creating new sequences, it just wholly re-creates 15 minutes worth of ANH. at least TFA had you following the death beam from base to star destroyer to the various planets.

 

[Adam_Vania]

You didn't think Kylo Ren was properly defined?

fwiw i could care less if something is properly defined. that is up to instructional manuals. or technical manuals.

when dealing with art, mystery is important, gaps are important, IMAGINATION is important. Picasso is a huge deal not because he made photo-accurate portraits but because he did the opposite.

mystery used to be important to this series. certainly it was one of the biggest factors in Star Wars being a hit back in 1977. feel like a lot of people have forgotten that and have really bought into GL's "it's all some grand elaborate pre-planned story" bs

 

[Peter Ian Staker]

Saw it last night with my other half who knows absolutely nothing about Star Wars. Was pretty disappointed myself but she seemed to love it and now wants to watch the the rest of the films so I guess it worked?

I girl I met who was a total SW newbie had the same reaction even though she had to get her boyfriend to explain everything.