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[brandonh83]

Force Awaken was literally just playing off nostalgia

I don't see how this can be said for VII and not Rogue One. Like man, the logic just ain't there.

I'm convinced that it doesn't matter what they do going forward, people will see Star Wars things in Star Wars movies and write it away as nostalgia pandering.

 

[Surfinn]

I agree

Force Awaken was literally just playing off nostalgia while having a more non enticing plot and character interactions

I mean Rogue one can take out all the Darth Vader senses and it would be still way more interesting then the Force awakens

TFA did have a ton of spectacle though

Rey interacting with Finn
Finn and Poe escaping
Ren and Han on the bridge
Han and Leia reuniting
BB-8 and.. Everyone
Ren/Rey/Finn during the confrontation on Starkiller

Those interactions were WORSE than the character interactions in R1?

 

[Jazzem]

Man, I thought Star Wars films would get less divisive among hardcore fans following the Disney takeover, but it's as if they're as polarising as ever o_o

But yeah, I am team TFA>RO by a country mile, basically for the reasons others have stated in the thread, along with the spot on Jenny Nicholson video.

Honestly I'm kind of sad TFA gets as much flack as it does...which I realise is a bit silly for a >$1 billion grossing movie But it worked wonders for me, primarily down to the new characters being so likeable and engaging, not to mention having terrific chemistry with each other. Also agree 100% that the issue of it having plot similarities to ANH is wildly overplayed.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

You don't get extra points for holding cheap cynicism between your teeth when you talk

 

[Davide]

Both of them are up there with Star Wars and Empire to me. I'd say Rogue One is the better film but what TFA achieved is incredible. Fantastic time to be a Star Wars fan.

 

[Man Called Aerodynamics]

Disagree. Rogue One was not a bad movie but to me it was like just running down a checklist of character types and settings that someone thought a Star Wars movie is supposed to have. Nothing stuck with me. Whereas with Force Awakens, lots of things intrigued me... I wanted to know more about these people, these places. That's what makes a good Star Wars movie to me.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Why bother? Once that "TFA is a clone of ANH" thing took hold, it became internet fact. Never mind the fact that its themes are vastly different and much deeper; nevermind that its similarities are merely surface level similarities I'd imagine Kasdan, Abrams, and Arndt were purposely putting in place; nevermind it erased the stink of the prequels and made a good portion of the general public care about Star Wars again.

It was a retread and therefore also terrible.

Never mind the fact that its themes are vastly different and much deeper; nevermind that its similarities are merely surface level similarities I'd imagine Kasdan, Abrams, and Arndt were purposely putting in place; nevermind it erased the stink of the prequels and made a good portion of the general public care about Star Wars again.

Never mind the fact that its themes are vastly different and much deeper

much deeper

 

[starchild excalibur]

Agree with OP, but I've never been especially a huge SW fan. I thought Force Awakens was well done, but nothing about the story or characters grabbed me or intrigued me. I liked that Rogue One didn't have a lot of the "Star Wars-y" things that have traditionally turned me off of the series: jedi magic, sprawling lores, "you are the chosen one" mumbo jumbo. It was just a space war film and I appreciated the simplicity and efficiency of that.

 

[brandonh83]

Man, I thought Star Wars films would get less divisive among hardcore fans following the Disney takeover, but it's as if they're as polarising as ever o_o

Man, we literally went from the prequels being bad because they're nothing like the originals with bad acting and dialogue and zero camaraderie to Force Awakens being bad because it's like the originals despite much better acting, dialogue, and plenty of camaraderie in ten short years. On top of that this very thread is divided up between people who liked Rogue One because they thought it was more original instead of nostalgia pandering while others don't like it because they think it's complete nostalgia pandering.

It's really too much to keep up with!

 

[TacticalHotdog]

Disagree. Rogue One was not a bad movie but to me it was like just running down a checklist of character types and setting that someone thought a Star Wars movie is supposed to have.

I feel like TFA did exactly that to the point that they just copied the plot structure of A New Hope. It does have better characters than Rogue One, but what they're doing with those characters is less interesting.

 

[bsp]

Rogue One is the best Star Wars movie full stop.

 

[Principate]

Haha ok, yeah there's absolutely nothing deep about any of these movies. The difference is one has a likeable cast of characters and another has a cast not as likeable.

 

[brandonh83]

Haha ok, yeah there's absolutely nothing deep about any of these movies.

Depends on your definition of depth or what you're trying to compare Star Wars to. For me if they lacked depth nobody would ever have anything to talk about in regards to the story and character direction.

 

[zsynqx]

Rey interacting with Finn
Finn and Poe escaping
Ren and Han on the bridge
Han and Leia reuniting
BB-8 and.. Everyone
Ren/Rey/Finn during the confrontation on Starkiller

Those interactions were WORSE than the character interactions in R1?

Don't forget.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlT-sJLfCPU

Nothing in Rogue One comes close to this scene.

 

[brandonh83]

Nothing in Rogue One comes close to this scene.

You're my guest!

Man I fucking love Kylo Ren lol. Driver's performance, his dialogue, mannerism, fighting style just completely rock.

I know he was already done in A New Hope but this was a pretty good retread of that character.

 

[DizzyCaffeine]

I was completely bored by R1. I'd say I hated it, but it was​ just too dull to inspire such vitriol.

 

[TCRS]

TFA is down there with episode I for me. Even episode I had more novelty and awe while TFA was a lame borefest.

Rogue One was fucking great though.

 

[leaf_]

My main problem with TFA was all the setup for little to no payoff, the story goes nowhere, there's no revelation about what the hell happened after six and it was basically just one huge teaser for the next episode, after anticipating it so much my first thought as I finished watching was "I should've ​waited for the next one".

RO was a really nice story with beginning middle and end, just this fact alone puts it miles ahead of TFA imo.

 

[border]

The Force Awakens always gets criticized for being similar to A New Hope.

But for some reason Rogue One gets a pass even though it's also a story about a listless, adrift orphan who discoverers their secret family history, and becomes an integral part of the Rebellion to stop a secret super-weapon. The massacre at Jedha directly parallels the destruction of Alderaan. Galen Erso's death becomes a motivating tragedy for Jyn, just as Obi-Wan's death motivates Luke.

I don't really fault either film for using familiar tropes. But if you're going to use the "It's just a remake!" card against TFA as if that's some magical proof that the movie sucks, then you have to be willing to play the same card against R1.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

It is better, I agree.

 

[brandonh83]

My main problem with TFA was all the setup for little to no payoff, the story goes nowhere, there's no revelation about what the hell happened after six and it was basically just one huge teaser for the next episode

No payoff? The payoff is in the title: Rey coming to grips with her Force powers, the lightsaber flying to her instead of Kylo, and her owning the shit out of Kylo. It also finally ends the character of Han Solo in a more meaningful way.

No revelation about what happened after VI? The First Order rose from the Empire. Han and Leia had a son. Luke was training a new generation of Jedi that were wiped out by said son. This led to Han and Leia becoming estranged and Leia went back to politics and Han back to pissing off every gang in the galaxy.

But yes, it being the introductory episode, that is its primary function-- to establish new characters, re-establish returning characters, and set the path for the future.

 

[Adam_Vania]

this is like saying pizza is a better pizza than pizza

 

[The Hermit]

 

[KorrZ]

Disagree entirely.

I saw Rogue One on opening night and was immediately disappointed as the film ended. I watched TFA the day after and it made me dislike Rogue One even more.

Rogue One feels entirely lifeless. A bunch of boring, undeveloped characters leaving you with no one to root for and zero emotion felt. Total contrast to TFA.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

I agree

Force Awaken was literally just playing off nostalgia while having a more non enticing plot and character interactions

I mean Rogue one can take out all the Darth Vader senses and it would be still way more interesting then the Force awakens

TFA did have a ton of spectacle though

You say that TFA plays off nostalgia by having clones of Vader and the Death Star but R1 has the actual Vader and Death star and that doesn't play off of nostalgia?

 

[brandonh83]

You say that TFA plays off nostalgia by having clones of Vader and the Death Star but R1 has the actual Vader and Death star and that doesn't play off of nostalgia?

Regardless of where one personally stands when it comes to the quality of a film, the "nostalgia pandering" argument is fucking stupid, on par with the Mary Sue bullshit.

 

[caliph95]

Regardless of where one personally stands when it comes to the quality of a film, the "nostalgia pandering" argument is fucking stupid, on par with the Mary Sue bullshit.

Rey "Mary sue" Skywalker

 

[neorej]

I agree

Force Awaken was literally just playing off nostalgia

Unlike rogue one, which tosses characters from the OT at you left right and center. Here's Tarkin, Mon Mothma and princess Leia! Remember when a fighter took down an AT-AT, by disabling it's legs? We got that too! General​ Ahkbar? Not really, but his distant cousin leads the charge!
Fuck it, we'll even throw in Bail Organa in case you liked the original trilogy!

And all of it even more unneeded than the pandering that went on in TFA.

 

[WickedLaharl]

R1 is a troglodyte not even worthy enough of licking TFA mighty boot.

 

[brandonh83]

R1 is a troglodyte not even worthy enough of licking TFA mighty boot.

Disagree, but damn if it didn't crack me up.

 

[Green Ninja]

this is like saying pizza is a better pizza than pizza

Rogue One = Authentic Chicago Style
TFA = Pizza Hut

 

[Surfinn]

These analogies lol

 

[brandonh83]

These analogies lol

Shhh let 'em keep going. I'm glued. I'm anxious to eventually find out what kind of toppings Return of the Jedi has.

But I suppose the same toppings A New Hope has, as Return of the Jedi is a retread of that.

 

[border]

Rogue One = Authentic Chicago Style
TFA = Pizza Hut

I think I would rather eat Pizza Hut than nasty Chicago Deep Dish.

Shhh let 'em keep going. I'm glued. I'm anxious to eventually find out what kind of toppings Return of the Jedi has.

Ewoks are definitely pineapple topping. They're so disgustingly sweet that only a select minority can enjoy them.

 

[kinggroin]

It is better a film. For sure. That's not controversial.

 

[caliph95]

I think I would rather eat Pizza Hut than nasty Chicago Deep Dish.

Bet it has orange toppings but hey it's original

 

[Magwik]

It is better a film. For sure. That's not controversial.

What makes it better?

 

[brandonh83]

Ewoks are definitely pineapple topping. They're so disgustingly sweet that only a select minority can enjoy them.

The Phantom Menace: thin crust, tomato sauce, extra cheese, anchovies
Attack of the Clones: thin crust, tomato sauce, extra cheese, sand
Revenge of the Sith: thin crust, tomato sauce, extra cheese, extra crispy
Rogue One: square cut, Alfredo sauce
A New Hope: thick crust, tomato sauce, normal cheese, pepperoni
Empire Strikes Back: Chicago style cheese and pepperoni
Return of the Jedi: thick crust, cheese, pineapple
The Force Awakens: thick crust, tomato sauce, normal cheese, pepperoni

 

[Surfinn]

I got it I got it

ANH is like authentic, Chicago style, restaurant pizza.. TFA is like a picture taken of that same pizza!

 

[caliph95]

The Phantom Menace: thin crust, tomato sauce, extra cheese, anchovies
Attack of the Clones: thin crust, tomato sauce, extra cheese, sand
Revenge of the Sith: thin crust, tomato sauce, extra cheese, extra crispy
Rogue One: square cut, Alfredo sauce
A New Hope: thick crust, tomato sauce, normal cheese, pepperoni
Empire Strikes Back: Chicago style cheese and pepperoni
Return of the Jedi: thick crust, cheese, pineapple
The Force Awakens: thick crust, tomato sauce, normal cheese, pepperoni

how clever lol

 

[Forearms]

As it currently stands, I appreciate Rogue One more than The Force Awakens as it helped bridge the gap between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope. Once Episode 8 is out I might have more of an appreciation for TFA.

Also, I'll probably get laughed at for this, but it wasn't until I watched episodes 1 through 6 over the course of a couple days, that I gained appreciation for episodes 1 through 3. I can't wait to sit down and re-watch them all once more movies like Rogue One are added to the series.

 

[Zabka]

What makes it better?

Economy of storytelling. TFA drags out the mystery of Rey's parents and leaves it open while Rogue One packs two dad death scenes in twenty minutes. It's simple math.

 

[brandonh83]

Economy of storytelling. TFA drags out the mystery of Rey's parents and leaves it open

Yep! One is the first episode of a trilogy that will have over-arching plot points and one is a standalone story. Checks out.

Do you apply this to Fellowship of the Ring or other first parts of a planned series?

 

[Bronx-Man]

A New Hope is NY pizza, The Force Awakens is that casserole Chicago peeps call "deep dish".

 

[Gai Murakumo]

The real problem with The Force Awakens is that it was played too safe and beat by beat was just A New Hope all over again. Not to say it is not enjoyable just repeated watching of episode VII makes it less interesting over time. Rogue One just has a different feel compared to previous Star Wars movies with its more down to earth real tone and less focus on the "Force" and Jedi.

 

[Zabka]

Yep! One is the first episode of a trilogy that will have over-arching plot points and one is a standalone story. Checks out.

Do you apply this to Fellowship of the Ring or other first parts of a planned series?

I don't even know what you're being defensive about now.

 

[Surfinn]

A New Hope is NY pizza, The Force Awakens is that casserole Chicago peeps call "deep dish".

So both different and delicious. Knew you'd come around

 

[matt05891]

The best scene in Rogue One was near the end. I personally found TFA to be the better film but I am beginning to believe that although Rogue One was what I thought I wanted since the games and I realize my favorite part of Star Wars is the myth/legend revolving around the Jedi and the Sith.

 

[brandonh83]

I don't even know what you're being defensive about now.

Nothing! Just trying to work out your issues, which I think applies to everything, or most things that are a planned story.

 

[Speevy]

TFA = All the feeling of Star Wars, but no guts.
Rogue One = All the guts of Star Wars, but no feeling.

If The Last Jedi can generate the organic, lived in world with more realistic battles to go along with some good performances from Ridley, Boyega, Isaac, Driver, Hamill, etc. it will have the perfect Star Wars movie. No more space soap opera. We're past that.