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[Louis Cyphre]

Every time I see this way of multitasking I think it's ridiculous. This probably only exists because it is also something Windows 8 can do. It makes sense on a tablet to have you mail client open at the side while surfing the web, but I would never want to give up any real estate of a game or film ever.

2 things that can make it appealing to me. 1 is you can cue multiplayer matches so while you wait you can play other games, listen to music or watch TV/movies. 2 is the Xbox One will have an HDMI input, which means you can have an overlay of the Xbox One userface on other devices, even a PS3. So if you are waiting for your buddy to log on and and join his match a pop-up will occur. Some may think it's just distracting but it is still an option which you don't have to use.

 

[Duffyside]

Anyone who thinks Microsoft cobbled this self-publishing idea together in the last few weeks is a fool.

Honestly, does anyone here know what they are talking about?

Nope, only you.

 

[SPDIF]

Anyone who thinks Microsoft cobbled this self-publishing idea together in the last few weeks is a fool.

Honestly, does anyone here know what they are talking about?

With the ridiculously poor communication MS has had ever since they revealed the X1 it's understandable that some people think that way, but yeah they've been planning this for a while.

Earlier this year when they first announced the Build event they gave a pretty big hint that they have some sort of Xbox related development plans to announce.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Hopefully they get rid of the idea that a developer/publishers needs to pay to put a patch up as it is on the 360. Sony allows them to do this for free. This needs to change badly. This upcoming gen is already too costly. They need to find ways to make it cheaper for devs.

 

[LiquidSolid]

Oh,well,i don't need your trust.E3 conference,that's clearly what i said

Yeah and?most people don't care it's complicated or not,they care how it ends,Valve did it eariler(compared to other 3),that's it,for others,even they "copy" it(Sony and Nintendo for now)later,but if it's good thing,then it's good,btw i'm not the first one use "copying" in this thread
Well i guess other than saying Sony is awesome,you will keep argument as hard as you can you can.

The point is that Sony's doing things Valve isn't (nor has to), like partially funding some indie games, setting indies up with other studios to help them out, etc. Console development is more complicated than PC development, so Sony is going the extra mile to make it as easy as possible. Nintendo's starting down this path as well, while Microsoft's left bumbling around with their 2005 policies.

Also, beril already pointed out that Sony introduced self publishing before Steam.

Where did I say Sony's awesome? Sony deserves a ton of credit for their work with indies and it's clearly paying off for them if you simply look at how much indie support they're getting. But that doesn't mean they're flawless and if they fuck up, I'll happily criticise them for it, just like I do with Microsoft and Nintendo. Trying to simplify everything into a battle of fanboys is childish.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

The point is that Sony's doing things Valve isn't (nor has to), like partially funding some indie games, setting indies up with other studios to help them out, etc. Console development is more complicated than PC development, so Sony is going the extra mile to make it as easy as possible. Nintendo's starting down this path as well, while Microsoft's left bumbling around with their 2005 policies.

Also, beril already pointed out that Sony introduced self publishing before Steam.

Where did I say Sony's awesome? Sony deserves a ton of credit for their work with indies and it's clearly paying off for them if you simply look at how much indie support they're getting. But that doesn't mean they're flawless and if they fuck up, I'll happily criticise them for it, just like I do with Microsoft and Nintendo. Trying to simplify everything into a battle of fanboys is childish.

Sorry,that's not me,you just act like i'm saying something bad about Sony,bad sadly,it's not like what you think.

Btw,beril said it's shortly after,not before(well it's about all non-valve game though),anyway,sleep

 

[flyingmonkeywhoa]

Anyone who thinks Microsoft cobbled this self-publishing idea together in the last few weeks is a fool.

Honestly, does anyone here know what they are talking about?

http://www.shacknews.com/article/79309/xbox-one-wont-allow-indies-to-self-publish-games

 

[jim2011]

http://www.shacknews.com/article/79309/xbox-one-wont-allow-indies-to-self-publish-games

When asked if developers will still need a publisher to get content onto Xbox Live, Matt Booty, general manager of Redmond Game Studios and Platforms, told us that "as of right now, yes. We intend to continue to court developers in the ways that we have."

He did add that "I would also expect that for this new generation, that we're going to continue to explore new business models and new ways of surfacing content. But Microsoft Studios is a publisher that works with a wide range of partners, as do a lot of other people, to bring digital content to the box."

From your link, what do you think that means?

I take it as we have nothing to announce yet but will announce new plans in the future.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

This had better happen, otherwise MS really do run the risk of being left behind especially with Sony and Nintendo being so open in how they deal with self publishing, patching, etc going forward.

Nintendo especially have shocked me by how open and inviting they've been to indies.

 

[Meelow]

I doubt this is true. Nintendo's tool chain alone seems like a huge hurdle. And everyone has Unity support.

You should research about Wii U's indie support, Nintendo actually did the right thing and is now getting tons of support.

 

[flyingmonkeywhoa]

From your link, what do you think that means?

I take it as we have nothing to announce yet but will announce new plans in the future.

He was asked a specific question ("Will indies need a publisher?") and answered "yes"...He could've easily said we'll have more to announce in the coming months on the matter and you could interpret as that, but he didn't

 

[LukasTaves]

So they kill XNA, then will come out saying they love indies.

How ironic.

They didn't killed XNA because they don't want to support indies. Future versions of XNA were killed because they had an entirely new platform for developing apps in W8 and WP8, and that platform was needed because xna wouldn't allow middlewares written in c/c++ to be ported. For that same reason silverlight was discontinued too.

That does not mean Ms won't ever come with an indie oriented sdk ever again.

 

[w1gglyjones]

And for those of you who want to self-publish... we have a product for you...

 

[jim2011]

He was asked a specific question ("Will indies need a publisher?") and answered "yes"...He could've easily said we'll have more to announce in the coming months on the matter and you could interpret as that, but he didn't

That's pretty much what he said. The parts I bolded are exactly that.

 

[Spongebob]

It's gonna drop $100 before launch for sure, Sony really threw a Fox in MS's henhouse and they ain't got any eggs for breakfast.

I doubt it.

I an expecting a subscription model though.

 

[dragonelite]

They didn't killed XNA because they don't want to support indies. Future versions of XNA were killed because they had an entirely new platform for developing apps in W8 and WP8, and that platform was needed because xna wouldn't allow middlewares written in c/c++ to be ported. For that same reason silverlight was discontinued too.

That does not mean Ms won't ever come with an indie oriented sdk ever again.

WinRT should provide Native and D3D access if they release that as an SDK for X1 should be enough for most indies. Not sure how WinRT works had no time to tinker around with it.

But releasing WinRT for X1 seems like a good way to get indie developers into the microsoft ecosystem. But XNA was such a cool learning tool #RipXNA :'(

 

[Forceatowulf]

This whole 180 from Ms is why competition is good. No one should ever want one direct competitor to fail or dominate to an absurd degree (GodStation 2 is the exception, not the rule!).

 

[MalpercioGoC]

I honestly don't see any reason why they couldn't and/or wouldn't just open up the Windows app store that is already sorta shared across W8 and WP8. I say that because I believe apps already have to go through a certification process. I wouldn't be surprised if certification standards for the X1 were a bit more stringent, however. I'd imagine that such apps would probably just run in the app VM though. Still a bit interesting, though.

It sure would be nice to have a Plex client app that I could run on my X1, and I'd love to be able to putz around in Visual Studio and deploy apps to my console, assuming they allow deployment directly to a retail device.

 

[Dramos]

They didn't killed XNA because they don't want to support indies. Future versions of XNA were killed because they had an entirely new platform for developing apps in W8 and WP8, and that platform was needed because xna wouldn't allow middlewares written in c/c++ to be ported. For that same reason silverlight was discontinued too.

That does not mean Ms won't ever come with an indie oriented sdk ever again.

Exactly what I was thinking. Hopefully, start-up developers and even experienced indie developers will be able to work with a better and improved XNA framework which would also work on many various platforms. (Monogame anyone?)

 

[SlipperyMoose]

I'll wait and see what this really is once it is all explained and laid out in full. Yeah they fucked up at E3 but if they are actually showing that they made mistakes by changing policies and adjusting things to what people actually want, I am happy for that. Yeah they may have done it because they were afraid of sales but they could have been stubborn and stuck with it and I think a lot of people felt that is exactly what they were going to do.

 

[w1gglyjones]

This whole 180 from Ms is why competition is good. No one should ever want one direct competitor to fail or dominate to an absurd degree (GodStation 2 is the exception, not the rule!).

Nope. I don't want MS in the console games industry.

 

[oldergamer]

Just my opinion, but I don't think there's many people out there that purchase a console solely for indie titles. Indie titles are icing on the cake. People keep saying MS screwed up in this regard to shunning indies, but I think they planned to announce what they were doing at the build conference for a while.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

He was asked a specific question ("Will indies need a publisher?") and answered "yes"...He could've easily said we'll have more to announce in the coming months on the matter and you could interpret as that, but he didn't

Look at the 360. Indies require a publisher on that, but there's still the Indie Marketplace where you can self publish. MS has a plan for Indies, they just haven't talked about it yet.

Can't wait to hear more about their plan. My Xbox pre order just keeps looking better.

 

[soundahfekz]

Heh Sony's lead is slowly becoming smaller and smaller.

Good will goes a long way, Microsoft has burned q lot of bridges with xbone policy thus far

 

[Syphon Filter]

Don putting in work i see.

 

[mephixto]

Next week MS will rebrand the console to PS ONE

 

[w1gglyjones]

Don putting in work i see.

No. Sony put in that work. MS trying to come back from the grave.

This isn't about pleasing gamers by providing products and services they want. This is pandering to save their business. And "Look, we're talking away family share from all digital downloads because that is how we're getting back at you."

 

[Hindle]

The news keeps getting better.

 

[Syphon Filter]

No. Sony put in that work. MS trying to come back from the grave.

This isn't about pleasing gamers by providing products and services they want. This is pandering to save their business. And "Look, we're talking away family share from all digital downloads because that is how we're getting back at you."

i know and people voted with their wallets therefore them switching. Sony doesn't care about anyone either,no company does.

 

[StoOgE]

No. Sony put in that work. MS trying to come back from the grave.

This isn't about pleasing gamers by providing products and services they want. This is pandering to save their business. And "Look, we're talking away family share from all digital downloads because that is how we're getting back at you."

News Flash: Almost all business decisions are made in order to make money.

Sony went with no DRM because they felt it was in their best interest financially. MS dropped it for the same reason.

None of these companies are your buddy doing things just to make you happy.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

No. Sony put in that work. MS trying to come back from the grave.

This isn't about pleasing gamers by providing products and services they want. This is pandering to save their business. And "Look, we're talking away family share from all digital downloads because that is how we're getting back at you."

I see you lack a fundamental understanding of how business works. Why do you think Sony and Nintendo pushed ahead with offering self publishing, not charging for patches, etc?

Because they love games or because it means more games on their platform, which means more games sales they can take a 30% cut from?

Jeez...

 

[RedSwirl]

I still don't understand why Microsoft hasn't just announced that the Xbox One will just straight-up run Windows 8 apps, including indie games from that marketplace.

 

[abadguy]

This whole 180 from Ms is why competition is good. No one should ever want one direct competitor to fail or dominate to an absurd degree (GodStation 2 is the exception, not the rule!).

Agreed 100%. But some have their heads a bit too far up their chosen company's ass to realize this. Frankly i am glad to see them attempting to get their shit together before the console's launch as opposed to 2 or 3 years after.

Nope. I don't want MS in the console games industry.

People like you tend not to want anyone who threatens your favorite console maker in the industry. I remember being on forums when the Dreamcast went under and how a certain group of fanboys were either cheering over their console's "victory" or pointing their fingers at Sega fans and laughing.

It's amazing how some who want to remove a big player are also content to have a $600 game console thrown at their face. If it wasn't for Microsoft Sony would have taken their sweet time getting the PS3 back on track.

Not to mention their success with Xbox Live forcing Sony to get their shit together with online and introduce PS+.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Agreed 100%. But some have their heads a bit too far up their chosen company's ass to realize this. Frankly i am glad to see them attempting to get their shit together before the console's launch as opposed to 2 or 3 years after.



People like you tend not to want anyone who threatens your favorite console maker in the industry. I remember being on forums when the Dreamcast went under and how a certain group of fanboys were either cheering over their console's "victory" or pointing their fingers at Sega fans and laughing.

It's amazing how some who want to remove a big player are also content to have a $600 game console thrown at their face. If it wasn't for Microsoft Sony would have taken their sweet time getting the PS3 back on track.

 

[HadesGigas]

Look at me, I'm on the internet!

Anyway, seems like a bad idea on Microsoft's part to wait this long to announce this plan if it is indeed the case. Announcing it months ago would mean having more indies on board for launch, but now that first wave are all making PSN games instead.

 

[sheamus]

I wonder if Microsoft is going to change the policy on patching($$$ per patch) on the Xbox 1.

 

[w1gglyjones]

i know and people voted with their wallets therefore them switching. Sony doesn't care about anyone either,no company does.

News Flash: Almost all business decisions are made in order to make money.

Sony went with no DRM because they felt it was in their best interest financially. MS dropped it for the same reason.

None of these companies are your buddy doing things just to make you happy.

I see you lack a fundamental understanding of how business works. Why do you think Sony and Nintendo pushed ahead with offering self publishing, not charging for patches, etc?

Because they love games or because it means more games on their platform, which means more games sales they can take a 30% cut from?

Jeez...

There is a difference between providing a product/service that consumers want and what MS did.

MS introduced a new product/service that took away what originally existed, offered many cons, very few pros and was defiantly defending it. When they realized that the backlash became bigger and mainstream and would materially effect their console business, they changed gears.

So what now? When bad shit happens, we all have to hope that our backlash goes mainstream and enough people start voting with their wallets? How often will we have to do this?

You want to constantly say "this is how business works" as if you know something that people like me don't. The same way you want to make a point about "business," I'd like to introduce a concept known as GOODWILL. Look it up, even accountants understand it.

Thanks. Have a great day. I don't need MS's way of doing business in my household when it comes to my games.

People like you tend not to want anyone who threatens your favorite console maker in the industry. I remember being on forums when the Dreamcast went under and how a certain group of fanboys were either cheering over their console's "victory" or pointing their fingers at Sega fans and laughing.

I own an Xbox 360. Frankly, MS has not brought anything to the games sphere that we wouldn't have eventually gotten without them. Everybody else would have provided better games and services had Microsoft's market share been split up. That's my belief. You want to talk about competition, but I believe in Nash equilibrium. We don't need Microsoft in this space, IMO. I don't want them here.

 

[Bsigg12]

It certainly is entertaining to watch a huge company panic

I think this has been apart of their plan. With the windows kernel as a base on the Xbox one, it was bound to happen. They aren't reeling here, there beginning a roll out process for rebuilding their shit indie channel they have now.

 

[The Boat]

If this is true and assuming MS will have policies similar to Sony and Nintendo, is it me or will Steam actually become the hardest place for indies to publish?

 

[Monty Mole]

I fully expect them to just open up the app store for third party developers. The big question will be if these kind of apps will have any Xbox LIVE support (as in achievements and leaderboards). If not, it will be Indie games on Xbox 360 all over again.

Windows Phone app store games do, don't see why Xbox One app store games wouldn't.

 

[StoOgE]

There is a difference between providing a product/service that consumers want and what MS did.

MS introduced a new product/service that took away what originally existed, offered many cons, very few pros and was defiantly defending it. When they realized that the backlash became bigger and mainstream and would materially effect their console business, they changed gears.

So what now? When bad shit happens, we all have to hope that our backlash goes mainstream and enough people start voting with their wallets? How often will we have to do this?

You want to constantly say "this is how business works" as if you know something that people like me don't. The same way you want to make a point about "business," I'd like to introduce a concept known as GOODWILL. Look it up, even accountants understand it.

Thanks. Have a great day. I don't need MS's way of doing business in my household when it comes to my games.

Sony introduced the PSP Go not that long ago that literally didn't support physical game sales. If MS had announced their new digital only model and consumers been ok with it you could have expected everyone else to follow suit shortly.

None of these companies are good or bad guys. They are all trying to be as profitable as they can. Part of that profitability is obviously putting something out that consumers want to own. Another part of that is seeing how far they can push the consumers without turning them away.

Xbox Live = succesfull and profitable, Sony is following suit.
DLC = Huge success, get used to it.
Pre-order bonuses = huge success, get used to it.

None of these things were particularly "good" for the consumer, but it was under the general gamers total rage threshold. Microsoft stepped to far out and pulled back.

 

[w1gglyjones]

None of these things were particularly "good" for the consumer, but it was under the general gamers total rage threshold. Microsoft stepped to far out and pulled back.

You don't seem to understand the concept of goodwill. Microsoft can't undo what it did so easily in my eyes. Why is that hard to accept? I don't need to be told "this is how business is done."

You originally quoted me saying, "This isn't about pleasing gamers by providing products and services they want. This is pandering to save their business. And "Look, we're talking away family share from all digital downloads because that is how we're getting back at you.""

And that's that - the way they did it. It's called goodwill.

 

[chubigans]

I will be absolutely SHOCKED if they allowed self publishing.

I think there's a 5% chance it'll happen at this point. We'll see!

edit: by self publishing I mean proper games on the game store, not a sanctioned off indie platform ala XBLIG.

 

[StoOgE]

You don't seem to understand the concept of goodwill. Microsoft can't undo what it did so easily in my eyes. Why is that hard to accept? I don't need to be told "this is how business is done."

You originally quoted me saying, "This isn't about pleasing gamers by providing products and services they want. This is pandering to save their business. And "Look, we're talking away family share from all digital downloads because that is how we're getting back at you.""

And that's that. It's called goodwill.

Microsoft didn't take away family sharing as a way to "get back at you". They took it away because it either didn't make financial sense (3rd parties may not have liked it and this was a good excuse) or because the DRM they were implementing was required for the system to function.

Companies don't do things just to be nice or just to "punish" you. They have a bottom line and all three big players have done things that were very good for and very bad for the consumer.

 

[w1gglyjones]

Microsoft didn't take away family sharing as a way to "get back at you". They took it away because it either didn't make financial sense (3rd parties may not have liked it and this was a good excuse) or because the DRM they were implementing was required for the system to function.

Companies don't do things just to be nice or just to "punish" you. They have a bottom line and all three big players have done things that were very good for and very bad for the consumer.

Again, you are missing the key point here. Consumers sometimes favor companies even when its products and services are differentiated from their competitors. It's called goodwill.

You are still trying to tell me "it's just business" when I am saying that there is more to business than tallying the red and black.

 

[Marleyman]

I will be absolutely SHOCKED if they allowed self publishing.

I think there's a 5% chance it'll happen at this point. We'll see!

I agree; at this point though the two systems are basically the same so they might as well.

 

[Spongebob]

They're probably going to announce some cross-platform development tools for Windows 8 and the Xbone.

 

[macewank]

Microsoft didn't take away family sharing as a way to "get back at you". They took it away because it either didn't make financial sense (3rd parties may not have liked it and this was a good excuse) or because the DRM they were implementing was required for the system to function.

Companies don't do things just to be nice or just to "punish" you. They have a bottom line and all three big players have done things that were very good for and very bad for the consumer.

this.. specifically, the bolded part.

Family Sharing was only going to work if your disc was tied to your account. It can't work any other way.

I fully expect that we'll see family sharing come back for digital titles at some point, but I don't see how Microsoft can consider that a priority at this time given that it would only be available to those who purchase digitally.


as for self-publishing..... I doubt it. I think folks are reading into the comments Notch/etc.. made. What I expect to see is some sort of ability to port things between the Win8 app stores and the Xbox marketplace. Self publishing would be a huge surprise.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Consumer "good will" is not a currency that you can save up and spend on a whim. It is in constant flux. People that love you today can be totally indifferent (Wii->Wii U), put off by price (PS2->PS3), or outraged by feature changes (360->One) when you introduce new products.

Especially when your new products lack support for legacy software.

At the same time, most consumers understand that electronics are a web of nebulous promises until they are actually on shelves, so MS reversing course on used games, region locking, and maybe Indies and Kinect will probably net them similar results to announcing all these things at E3.

 

[gofreak]

Self-publishing of 'apps' that are restricted to the OS partition would be a bit disappointing. Would be fine, obviously, for some games and ports of WinRT games, but not so much for more general game types and more resource intensive stuff. Giving freedom on one side while still restricting publishing of 'real'/native Xbox One games to big pubs would be a sideways step. TBH, the 'app' side on the OS partition should really be transparent from the point of view of the developer. Should just be natively Win8/RT compatible.