Support NeoGAF

[charlequin]

When they suggested the strategy for Wii, it failed... not because the strategy was poor, but because 3rd parties weren't financially hurting like they are now. At this point, and based on timetokill's comments? They might be more willing to listen.

Absolutely not. I would take exactly the opposite read on this: Nintendo's low-power strategy sounded good but reality proved it to be ill-advised; since there's literally no chance of converting third-party developers over to it, Nintendo need to make a fully-powered system and just do what they need to do for their own games.

 

[happyfunball]

I can't see why Nintendo would pass on the all that 2011 holiday money if they have a finished console and games to suppport it. If they don't have eveything ready in time, then yeah... next year.

I don't see how they can't release it this year. The Wii is completely abandoned (by both Nintendo and 3rd parties), it feels like owning a DC in 2001 without 1st party support.

 

[devildog820]

After all we're talking about Western developers here - who managed to completely ignore the two fastest selling consoles ever (DS and Wii) for no acceptably good reason.

I wouldn't say the DS was ignored. Tons of titles came out, from top publishers.

They ignored the Wii because people weren't buying games for the Wii. The bread and butter games from the top studios performed poorly sales-wise on the Wii.

 

[Vinci]

Absolutely not. I would take exactly the opposite read on this: Nintendo's low-power strategy sounded good but reality proved it to be ill-advised; since there's literally no chance of converting third-party developers over to it, Nintendo need to make a fully-powered system and just do what they need to do for their own games.

Depends on whether 3rd parties are truly willing to move to a full-step next generation. After how painful this generation has been for them, it's quite possible they aren't ready for that. I'm not suggesting that Nintendo go low power, just that it stay within easy porting distance of the other two.

EDIT: I'm not disagreeing with you, charlequin, in terms of your read. What I'm saying is that it's easier to believe someone screaming that the sky is falling when you can see it happening for yourself.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Yeah, no shit, Ready at Dawn guy. Which is why putting your games, preferably high quality ones, onto a platform early in its life and building an ecosystem for your work on it is the smart thing to do.

BACKFIRE! Watch out!

 

[wsippel]

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...pond-to-nintendo-hd-news.aspx?PostPageIndex=2

Funny how those guys still don't get it, after all those years. What exactly did Nintendo do, run over their dogs? They're not sabotaging their efforts or anything. Sure, if Irrational brings Bioshock Infinite to Nintendo's next system and expects it to outsell Mario, that won't happen. But it won't outsell Gears of War 3 or Uncharted 3 either. And it's not like Nintendo releases a AAA blockbuster every month or something. Ignoring the platform, however, won't make it go away and is the worst thing 3rd parties can do. With a system as powerful or more powerful than PS3 and Xbox360, they have nothing to lose by supporting it and nothing to gain by ignoring it - yet we're at the "wait and see, Nintendo will make us cry" phase yet again. Except for the Obsidian guy, who instead pulled the hackneyed "Nintendo is kiddy" card once again. Predictable, boring and stupid.

 

[Vagabundo]

Absolutely not. I would take exactly the opposite read on this: Nintendo's low-power strategy sounded good but reality proved it to be ill-advised; since there's literally no chance of converting third-party developers over to it, Nintendo need to make a fully-powered system and just do what they need to do for their own games.

But this was for no logical reason. And quite a few dev's paid the ultimate price for this path.

 

[poppabk]

Live is more or less an attempt to take the experience of online gaming as it was on the PC and transfer it onto consoles (with less than ideal results if you ask me). Nintendo is trying to find a way to get the family audience to easily connect to and enjoy online gaming.

Yeah nintendo have a more difficult road to travel when it comes to online. The 360 and PS3 have gone the PC route, which is single user centric, and which already has a working paradigm to copy. Nintendo have tried for a more inclusive approach with the Wii (everybody votes, Wii speak, Mii's etc), but it falls apart due to their overly segmented approach to the underlying OS.

 

[Vinci]

They ignored the Wii because people weren't buying games for the Wii. The bread and butter games from the top studios performed poorly sales-wise on the Wii.

I'm not going to fully respond to this, but it's neither statistically true, nor is it rational given how things actually occurred throughout this generation's timeline.

 

[Suzzopher]

Weirdly I know a lot more guys in their 30's who played Mario Galaxy, whilst their sons are the ones who want to play COD.

I enjoy a Pixar movie more than I do a Hollywood blockbuster.

 

[StevieP]

I wouldn't say the DS was ignored. Tons of titles came out, from top publishers.

They ignored the Wii because people weren't buying games for the Wii. The bread and butter games from the top studios performed poorly sales-wise on the Wii.

I don't think you read that the Wii has easily sold the most software this gen. This includes 3rd party.

 

[devildog820]

Funny how those guys still don't get it, after all those years. What exactly did Nintendo do, run over their dogs? They're not sabotaging their efforts or anything. Sure, if Irrational brings Bioshock Infinite to Nintendo's next system and expects it to outsell Mario, that won't happen. But it won't outsell Gears of War 3 or Uncharted 3 either. It's not like Nintendo releases a AAA blockbuster every month after all. Ignoring the platform, however, won't make it go away and is the worst thing 3rd parties can do. With a system as powerful or more powerful than PS3 and Xbox360, they have nothing to lose by supporting it and nothing to gain by ignoring it - yet we're at the "wait and see, Nintendo will make us cry" phase yet again. Except for the Obsidian guy, who instead pulled the hackneyed "Nintendo is kiddy" card once again. Predictable, boring and stupid.

They aren't attacking Nintendo, they are just stating some hard to swallow facts. Nintendo took a big risk by making the Wii underpowered and it paid off for them, profit-wise, for five years. It did not pay off for 3rd party developers, though.

 

[AceBandage]

Weirdly I know a lot more guys in their 30's who played Mario Galaxy, whilst their sons are the ones who want to play COD.

I enjoy a Pixar movie more than I do a Hollywood blockbuster.

Because kids try to be more mature than they should, while adults just like stuff that's awesome.

 

[Vinci]

They aren't attacking Nintendo, they are just stating some hard to swallow facts. Nintendo took a big risk by making the Wii underpowered and it paid off for them, profit-wise, for five years. It did not pay off for 3rd party developers, though.

Because 3rd parties didn't actually use the same strategy? Why would it work for them?

 

[Suzzopher]

Because kids try to be more mature than they should, while adults just like stuff that's awesome.

So stuff with adult content, appeals more to the younger demographic, whilst a more mature minded gamer is one who can appreciate the finer things?

To be honest, if you can't make a game that appeals to people on Wii, then I suggest they need to hire some new designers and writers.

 

[beje]

They ignored the Wii because people weren't buying games for the Wii. The bread and butter games from the top studios performed poorly sales-wise on the Wii.

That statement is incorrect from the very first moment that, aside from Marvelous, some random, unexpected and scarce legitimate efforts and the MH3 moneyhat (all of which sold pretty decently) all Wii has from top studios is "here, you can have ports of 6 years old PS2 games and the outsourced leftovers"

 

[Furret]

I wouldn't say the DS was ignored. Tons of titles came out, from top publishers.

They ignored the Wii because people weren't buying games for the Wii. The bread and butter games from the top studios performed poorly sales-wise on the Wii.

Of the 70-odd DS games I've got one is French, one is British, one Canadian, and the other is American (Contra 4, GTA: Chinatown Wars, Might & Magic: Clash of Heroes and Soul Bubbles).

That's one decent game per country on the soon to be best-selling console ever (it's only a few million off the PS2 at the moment). That's absolutely pathetic and from a business point of view inexcusable.

People weren't buying third party games for the Wii because they were either bad, unadvertised or both. This is the Western companies fault, and they're the only ones that lost out as Nintendo carried on laughing all the way to the bank.

Not that I'm painting Nintendo as some know-it-all super publisher, they made plenty of mistakes with the Wii but not nearly as many as third party, particularly Western, companies.

 

[StevieP]

So stuff with adult content, appeals more to the younger the demographic, whilst a more mature minded gamer is one who can appreciate the finer things?

To be honest, if you can't make a game that appeals to people on Wii, then I suggest they need to hire some new designers and writers.

Most games that are rated M (the overwhelming majority of them) appeal far more to teens and tweens who fall under that age bracket than ones who do. People who are actually "Mature" have no problem going from Resident Evil 4 and its gory deaths to Kirby's Epic Yarn and it's fluffy awesome goodness and enjoying both for what they are: good games.

 

[wsippel]

They aren't attacking Nintendo, they are just stating some hard to swallow facts. Nintendo took a big risk by making the Wii underpowered and it paid off for them, profit-wise, for five years. It did not pay off for 3rd party developers, though.

With the Wii, they had an excuse - I have no problem with that. This isn't about the Wii, though. It's about a system that could presumably run everything those developers are working on, possibly in full HD, and porting the stuff over would be a matter of weeks. Nothing to lose, no excuses. But it doesn't look like they're interested. Because "it's Nintendo".

 

[Suzzopher]

They aren't attacking Nintendo, they are just stating some hard to swallow facts. Nintendo took a big risk by making the Wii underpowered and it paid off for them, profit-wise, for five years. It did not pay off for 3rd party developers, though.

They didn't make a real effort though. Whilst everyone was chasing the online dream on 360 they ignored the growing market. Nintendo games sold and sold well. The market was there, the games with imagination in the west? They were nowhere to be seen on Wii.

Boom Bloxx is all I can think of. I know a lot Japanese companies failed to make much on Wii, but Japan had headed into the handheld market and so the market for Wii was limited even more so. But again Nintendo games sold and sold well.

If 3rd parties had bothered they would have made money. They didn't and then got burnt on HD consoles anyway.

 

[Suzzopher]

Most games that are rated M (the overwhelming majority of them) appeal far more to teens and tweens who fall under that age bracket than ones who do. People who are actually "Mature" have no problem going from Resident Evil 4 and its gory deaths to Kirby's Epic Yarn and it's fluffy awesome goodness and enjoying both for what they are: good games.

I agree, but it seems most mouth pieces for studios are more than willing to call Nintendo platforms out as something for kids.


Sorry I get really annoyed when this comes up

 

[AceBandage]

I agree, but it seems most mouth pieces for studios are more than willing to call Nintendo platforms out as something for kids.


Sorry I get really annoyed when this comes up

Don't worry.
They'll get fired or closed down, and Nintendo will continue to make awesome games while they pedal their body out for money.

 

[egocrata]

They aren't attacking Nintendo, they are just stating some hard to swallow facts. Nintendo took a big risk by making the Wii underpowered and it paid off for them, profit-wise, for five years. It did not pay off for 3rd party developers, though.

If only any third party developer had even tried... The thing is, no one did. The Wii has a ton of gems, but third parties were either late or shooting wide from the get go.

Their loss, I guess. All those formerly great studios that bet 20 million in an HD game, bombed and went out of business surely did great.

 

[Woffls]

Even if 3rd parties aren't successful on the platform straight away, the competition will dry up when other publishers put resources into PS4/XB3 development. At this point, those which stay developing for the N6 will benefit hugely from the install base - we're talking like 2014 here - and lower development costs.

[Fake edit] Double post!? I didn't think that was actually possible in this thread.

 

[civilstrife]

I just never really understood why these developers suddenly became incapable of producing high quality PS2/GCN/XBOX/WII level games the moment Xbox360 and PS3 came out.
You'd think that they would be quite good at them by then.

I think Nintendo's intention was for a seamless transition from one generation to the next, without any major learning curve for developers, but somehow, it just didn't happen that way. Maybe it was early skepticism, but A-list teams avoided it like the plague.

Basically, I think it's a graphics whore thing. Developers are nerds. They want the newest and best tech to play with. I can understand why working with 6 year old tech just wouldn't be very exciting for them.

 

[mantidor]

I wouldn't say the DS was ignored. Tons of titles came out, from top publishers.

They ignored the Wii because people weren't buying games for the Wii. The bread and butter games from the top studios performed poorly sales-wise on the Wii.

Very few studios actually put their bread and butter games on the console, if none to be honest. It's really hard to say their efforts were worthwhile.

 

[Furret]

I just never really understood why these developers suddenly became incapable of producing high quality PS2/GCN/XBOX/WII level games the moment Xbox360 and PS3 came out.
You'd think that they would be quite good at them by then.

I think Nintendo's intention was for a seamless transition from one generation to the next, without any major learning curve for developers, but somehow, it just didn't happen that way. Maybe it was early skepticism, but A-list teams avoided it like the plague.

Basically, I think it's a graphics whore thing. Developers are nerds. They want the newest and best tech to play with. I can understand why working with 6 year old tech just wouldn't be very exciting for them.

That's kind of what I assumed, but if you follow that logic why aren't they all PC developers in that case?

 

[Effect]

So stuff with adult content, appeals more to the younger demographic, whilst a more mature minded gamer is one who can appreciate the finer things?

To be honest, if you can't make a game that appeals to people on Wii, then I suggest they need to hire some new designers and writers.

Pretty much. That's always been the case though but not just in gaming but in other things as well. Developers and publishers know this. Which is why their "Nintendo is kiddy" comments were always stupid. They know young kids and teens flock to their ultra violent games. They know they're the ones buying a large chuck of their games.

I've always believed that adults and those that really are mature are able to enjoy all games. Either violent or just calm and relaxing. One that can enjoy a game of Madden and then go to Mario then to perhaps Little Big Planet to Zelda and Metroid to then Starcraft and not have any issues at all. If you want immature and childish just take a look at the Call of Duty forums.

 

[Lupin the Third]

Basically, I think it's a graphics whore thing. Developers are nerds. They want the newest and best tech to play with. I can understand why working with 6 year old tech just wouldn't be very exciting for them.

I think you're spot-on. Just look at (old) Infinity Ward's complete aversion to anything Wii, and how pro-high-end their comments were.

 

[Refreshment.01]

What a complete derailing. The last couple of pages is mostly composed of same old Wii analysis stuff. Guys, thread is big enough as it is, just to be stuffing it with more of topic stuff.

 

[RedSwirl]

In my opinion, they tried to differentiate by the motion control gimmick. But, as we learn in MBA school, differentiation must be attained by meeting the base standards of your competition and then doing something else that will wow consumers.

The underpowered nature of the Wii meant that even with motion controls, developers couldn't put out similar products across all systems. Medal of Honor on Wii was fun, but it looked like crap, comparatively, and was very constrained. Call of Duty similarly had to be stripped down. Were those developers able to design the same experience as the 360 or PS3 had, but with motion controls, they definitely would have. The assumed success would lead to innovative new titles designed completely with motion control because it wouldn't be as big a risk.

That line might have some truth to it, but you had to admit Nintendo kind of called it right when they were cautious to avoid the ballooning development costs of this console generation.

 

[wsippel]

If only any third party developer had even tried... The thing is, no one did. The Wii has a ton of gems, but third parties were either late or shooting wide from the get go.

Their loss, I guess. All those formerly great studios that bet 20 million in an HD game, bombed and went out of business surely did great.

You know, that's a bit polemic and doesn't really help. I would be happy with definite versions of multiplatform titles (at least 'till PS4 and 720 hit), plus the occasional Nintendo gem. Yes, 3rd parties didn't exactly shine on Wii, but it's hard to blame them. They had already invested in HD pipelines, and they could support three platforms with little effort by going HD, all of which combined rivaled the Wii installed base, and they didn't have to fear Nintendos first party efforts steamrolling them. With this new system, things are different. All the quoted developers are doing multiplatform games - Nintendo's new system could simply be a part of their multiplatform strategy for the time being.

 

[AceBandage]

So anyway... Rumor is going around that Rockstar already has a dev kit and might have a game ready for launch.
It would probably be GTA5 if anything, but I wonder if Nintendo would get them to give the version any exclusive content.

 

[antonz]

Pretty much. That's always been the case though but not just in gaming but in other things as well. Developers and publishers know this. Which is why their "Nintendo is kiddy" comments were always stupid. They know young kids and teens flock to their ultra violent games. They know they're the ones buying a large chuck of their games.

They cant admit that kind of thing because that would bring publicity to an issue they dont want highlighted for political reasons.

Everyone knows it but as long as it remains unspoken and they have Nintendo to label as the kid console everything gets swept under the rug

 

[Woffls]

So anyway... Rumor is going around that Rockstar already has a dev kit and might have a game ready for launch.
It would probably be GTA5 if anything, but I wonder if Nintendo would get them to give the version any exclusive content.

Doubt it. They should just be able to say "Hey look, here's your big interactive map of Vice City on a tablet" and get everyone's attention. Remember how much time you spent looking at that god damn cell phone? How about just having that on your tablet controller, with a better interface obviously.

Nintendo won't throw money at them for exclusive content, because they'll want to believe that they're offering something unique already. If they didn't believe that, they wouldn't be bothering with this.

 

[NewFresh]

So anyway... Rumor is going around that Rockstar already has a dev kit and might have a game ready for launch.
It would probably be GTA5 if anything, but I wonder if Nintendo would get them to give the version any exclusive content.

Really? I had hear that they had scouted them but nothing about them actually making a game. Maybe if rockstar announces GTA5 at E3 that they could announce it as a platform. I thought they were not on good terms after GTA: Chinatown wars did not do well on the DS

 

[ShockingAlberto]

So anyway... Rumor is going around that Rockstar already has a dev kit and might have a game ready for launch.
It would probably be GTA5 if anything, but I wonder if Nintendo would get them to give the version any exclusive content.

Rockstar has never been particularly pro-Nintendo systems. I really doubt that, honestly.

 

[Majine]

This screen on the controller actually sounds very.... un-nintendo-like. I dunno why.

 

[Pocks]

So anyway... Rumor is going around that Rockstar already has a dev kit and might have a game ready for launch.
It would probably be GTA5 if anything, but I wonder if Nintendo would get them to give the version any exclusive content.

Is this new, or is it from the same source that believes Pikmin 3 is headed to Project Cafe?

 

[Skiesofwonder]

So anyway... Rumor is going around that Rockstar already has a dev kit and might have a game ready for launch.
It would probably be GTA5 if anything, but I wonder if Nintendo would get them to give the version any exclusive content.

Source?

If Rockstar was on board with GTA 5 at launch then I think other third parties would HAVE to take notice.

 

[antonz]

Really? I had hear that they had scouted them but nothing about them actually making a game. Maybe if rockstar announces GTA5 at E3 that they could announce it as a platform. I thought they were not on good terms after GTA: Chinatown wars did not do well on the DS

It sold better on the device than their porting attempts managed. Did we ever get any kind of final sales? we know it did 90K at launch

 

[Kintaco]

So anyway... Rumor is going around that Rockstar already has a dev kit and might have a game ready for launch.
It would probably be GTA5 if anything, but I wonder if Nintendo would get them to give the version any exclusive content.

It would be nice if Rockstar has a devkit, but I can't see them having GT5 in time for launch.

Oh wait I was thinking 2011 launch, I guess fall 2012 launch in possible.

 

[civilstrife]

It's important to remember that remaining on equal footing power-wise isn't the end all be all of receiving multi-platform releases.

That was the most frustrating part of the GCN era. There was no technical reason for developers to avoid it. Although I suspect money-hatting and GCN's lackluster hardware sales had something to do with it.

Also, that was a different era. The age of third party exclusives is quickly coming to a close.

 

[Maxwell House]

If the Wii 2 only looks a little better than the 360 it will NOT entice current 360 / PS3 owners to buy it. Everyone knows that much more powerful 360 and PS3 successors are right around the corner. To get the "hardcore" to buy Wii 2 it will have to look generationally better than the 360 / PS3.

 

[poppabk]

So anyway... Rumor is going around that Rockstar already has a dev kit and might have a game ready for launch.
It would probably be GTA5 if anything, but I wonder if Nintendo would get them to give the version any exclusive content.

Unlikely they would have anything for launch, GTA5 will be multiplat 360/PS3 at the very least, and they will release it on their own terms not based on when hardware is released.

 

[antonz]

It's important to remember that remaining on equal footing power-wise isn't the end all be all of receiving multi-platform releases.

That was the most frustrating part of the GCN era. There was no technical reason for developers to avoid it. Although I suspect money-hatting had GCN's lackluster hardware sales had something to do with it.

Also, that was a different era. The age of third party exclusives is quickly coming to a close.

The minidisc really was the straw to break the back of the GC. But yes the age of exclusives is going to mostly end unless certain companies are willing to really foot huge portions of the bill

 

[Instro]

So anyway... Rumor is going around that Rockstar already has a dev kit and might have a game ready for launch.
It would probably be GTA5 if anything, but I wonder if Nintendo would get them to give the version any exclusive content.

Is it time for Manhunt 3?

 

[Graphics Horse]

I'm not seeing Reggie revealing any tattoos at E3.

 

[Persona7]

Irrational Games are considered nobodies to all the cool internet kids now?

 

[Tempy]

Surely I'm not the only one who read those developer comments as being positive and receptive to N6.

Regarding silly comments from some people - Irrational and Obsidian are definitely not nobodies, and will be hanging around for a while. Don't be so angry they didn't make anything for DS/Wii. (Ready at Dawn ported Okami to Wii btw)