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RUMOUR: Wii U specs leaked?

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lkepo.jpg

Haha, the polycounts on those models are N64 level. They look like they could fit right in with the NPC's of Zelda OoT or Majora's mask.

45387-157285-majorasmaskpng-620x.jpg


But, just because the developers are going frugal on the aesthetics of this game, doesn't mean that's all the machine is capable of. It just seems like Nintendo doesn't feel that graphics are a high level of priority in their games anymore.

Though the Wii U should still be able to produce some nice looking stuff.
 

AzaK

Member
In all fairness nearly all of the games show literally got their start on either wii or 360 hence why trine 2 is the best looking game shown.

But come on, this was meant to be the MEGA re-reveal of Wii U. The big blowout and showcase of the system. Instead they showed us stuff pretty much the level of last E3, as in, work in progress titles without much polish. What a shitty way to showcase your new, next-gen machine. Seriously, it was pathetic.

No way in hell would MS or Sony do something so lacklustre for their next reveals. They'll both try and blow the roof off. Nintendo gave us 50%+ casual rubbish, yet another 2d mario that can't really show off the system. Pikmin which looked like it could be done on this gen's hardware quite easily, a Batman game that's already 7 months old (probably a year by release time) and doesn't look any better, a new IP that doesn't have polish (ZombieU) and a 10 minute long translated diatribe about shining your lights in a little maze.

The conference was, to me, complete shit.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
Halo 4 is a ridiculous comparison, honestly. Try this:
QbiG8.jpg

I can imagine the masses looking at Halo 4 or the Last of Us and then looking at Zombi U and saying "Wow, Zombi U is so much nicer looking than what Xbox 360 had at launch, let's buy it. I think in a few years time games may look nicer than Halo 4".
 

aeolist

Banned
Yeah, 512mbs would be a bit too much for a console OS. It's not like they will be running Windows XP on this thing.

Uhh.... It's a Nintendo console. They've always cheapened out on internal storage. :p

Actually 10gb's is a lot by their standards. More than I was expecting it to have, anyway.

It's for dedicated system use according to this, not just OS storage. That means caching too, which SLC is much much better for.
 

Zero148

Member
Haha, the polycounts on those models are N64 level. They look like they could fit right in with the NPC's of Zelda OoT or Majora's mask.

45387-157285-majorasmaskpng-620x.jpg


But, just because the developers are going frugal on the aesthetics of this game, doesn't mean that's all the machine is capable of. It just seems like Nintendo doesn't feel that graphics are a high level of priority in their games anymore.

Though the Wii U should still be able to produce some nice looking stuff.

The screen is from Project P-100 developed by Platinum Games.

the Inhouse Nintendo games (Pikmin, Mario, Nintendoland) all at least look solid from a technical side, not groundbreaking but solid.
 
^^^Outside of the specific grass areas Kameo always looked like balls.

Its funny becuase you took the game that looks good, and the game that looks a fucking atrocious jaggiefest and you mixed them.

The art of P-100 fucks all over the lego game, the soft lightining, the particle effects and set pieces (the boss destroys the whole city in real time) and the high IQ trumps all over the jaggifest city of lego, detailed textures or not.

You miss the point....
 
The screen is from Project P-100 developed by Platinum Games.

the Inhouse Nintendo games (Pikmin, Mario, Nintendoland) all at least look solid from a technical side, not groundbreaking but solid.

At this stage I think that if developers don't build titles from the ground up on Wii U, when it comes to ports at least, there won't be significant differences between current gen titles.
 

Ryoku

Member
I can imagine the masses looking at Halo 4 or the Last of Us and then looking at Zombi U and saying "Wow, Zombi U is so much nicer looking than what Xbox 360 had at launch, let's buy it. I think in a few years time games may look nicer than Halo 4".

I expect Halo 4-level graphics on Wii U by next year. The system is more capable than the Xbox 360, and going by what we can see at launch, it will definitely reach that level of fidelity (from a graphical standpoint) much sooner than most expect.
 
Yeah, but it also had things like these:

ir96T.jpg


And that's 2005 we're talking about, 7 freaking years ago.

And you have assassin's creed and batman at launch. And the zelda demo already looked good last year but obviously is not ready to show in full form this year.

By the way what happened to the speculation thread in community?
 

scitek

Member
But come on, this was meant to be the MEGA re-reveal of Wii U. The big blowout and showcase of the system. Instead they showed us stuff pretty much the level of last E3, as in, work in progress titles without much polish. What a shitty way to showcase your new, next-gen machine. Seriously, it was pathetic.

This shit was totally made up by forum goers such as yourself.
 
Come one nintendo themselves hyped this for months. Just look at their facebook page before e3. Blame them for the fans having high expectations.
E3 is not over yet, and it appears that Nintendo spaced out the news throughout the event. It is possible that nintendo will reveal a bit more during the following days. Is that vault on the facebook account still there?
 

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
E3 is not over yet, and it appears that Nintendo spaced out the news throughout the event. It is possible that nintendo will reveal a bit more during the following days. Is that vault on the facebook account still there?

I'm hoping this is true. I remember Smash brothers being announced this way. I'm also hoping that the backlash they are getting somehow wakes them up!
 
I'm hoping this is true. I remember Smash brothers being announced this way. I'm also hoping that the backlash they are getting somehow wakes them up!
We already got some nice tidbits after the conference, like how Wii VC games can be ported over to the account-based Wii U, so we will see.
 

Eradicate

Member
And you have assassin's creed and batman at launch. And the zelda demo already looked good last year but obviously is not ready to show in full form this year.

By the way what happened to the speculation thread in community?

That thread got locked right before the official topic went live.

All other speculation is taking place scattered about in threads such as this one!

I too think they want to spread things out over E3. I also think they'll randomly release things leading up to the console reveal. They work from their own calendar! :p
 

scitek

Member
Come one nintendo themselves hyped this for months. Just look at their facebook page before e3. Blame them for the fans having high expectations.
I'm talking about the whole "re-reveal" thing. From it being renamed to there being some crazy Megaton announcement, none of it was based on anything more than people that convinced themselves Nintendo couldn't have possibly thought they did a good job with the unveiling last year.
 

TUROK

Member
ME3050029610_2.jpg


image_tekken_tag_tournament_2-19453-2286_0001.jpg


Looks right in line with what current consoles are doing. I'm guessing that the tablet uses up a pretty decent chunk of the hardware.
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
^^^
lol off-screen grabs. I can make GT5 look better than reality with those mate


We're talking about people who own receivers that do not have HDMI audio support ... which is a fair percentage of the userbase.

Discreet multi-channel PCM cannot be transmitted via optical.






There wouldn't be any sound effects then :D

Those are generated in real-time, mixed with the soundtrack, and then encoded into a lossy bitstream (or passed as LPCM). So no, that can't work in a game environment - only for media.

Oh shit you're right. :O it shows that my legacy is from Home-Cinema and Hi-Fi, I'm lucky my magazine's EIC doesn't follow GAF or I'd get so much flak (well deserved, lol) you can't even imagine... Oh wait my magazine folded in December after 40 years in the biz, not a problem then :p
What if they use something like Dolby Digital Live? Btw, I think Nintendo paid Dolby some fees to officially support DOLBY Pro Logic II (even tho we know, given how it works, it wasn't necessary).
 
It's for dedicated system use according to this, not just OS storage. That means caching too, which SLC is much much better for.

Oh I see. So if the internal 10GB's of flash memory is being used for the OS and additional system use like caching? Will any of it be used for user downloadable content? Are they going to dedicate something like 2-3GBs to the OS + hardware caching and give the other 7-8GB's to the user for Wiiware, Virtual Console and all that?


The screen is from Project P-100 developed by Platinum Games.

the Inhouse Nintendo games (Pikmin, Mario, Nintendoland) all at least look solid from a technical side, not groundbreaking but solid.

Ah sorry, Platinum Games.

But anyway, my point is that Nintendo doesn't seem to care about appealing to to gamers who want cinematic visual experiences anymore. They games they showed at the show look OK, but nothing that makes you say "wow!". It's about what I expected to see from modern day Nintendo.

But their hardware seems to fall into a half generation between the PS3 and 360 and whatever Microsoft and Sony have planned in the future.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
About the memory, we got a confirmed Wii U developer giving us informations that narrowed the range between 1GB and 1,5GB.

Then i intervened in the speculation thread 2 and after, hinting that the range for the retail unit, which third-parties were noticed of by Nintendo (it's an information more recent than the target spec that this developer told us), was between 1,5GB and 2GB.

BUT, i added that the OS, the system software layer, and the room the console needs for its functions (like heavy-multitasking, caching of games to store your progression, switch to the dashboard, then switch back where you left, and a lot of background applications running) is huge, at least 512MB. It could be because the system really requires this space, or Nintendo just wasn't sure of the final amount the OS will take so they played it safe and reserved a big part of the total memory while designing it.

It was later reinforced by the size of the separated flash where the OS is stored, which is 512MB. BUT it doesn't necessarily translate in the OS occupying all this room, it could take 200MB and 300MB are left free for future system updates, caching, etc. Once loaded into the RAM, the OS surely take a similar amount of memory, but as explained just before, needs additional room for the Wii U features. And all this space isn't available for developers, obviously.

Last addition, studios made their games with, 1GB of ram. Don't know if after the full implementation and expected optimizations of the OS, they could have access to more ram, but for the main part of their development, they couldn't tap from this pool of memory reserved for the system, and had 1GB for them. What you are seeing at E3 are games developed with 1GB "in mind". So with further optimizations, like the 3DS situation, we can expect titles released further in the lifespan of the system using more memory, up to 1,5GB i would say.

Here's some links for people who want to follow the past talks about the memory:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=35635838&highlight=#post35635838
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=35635906&highlight=#post35635906
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=35635981&highlight=#post35635981
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=35901914#post35901914
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35903897&postcount=19265
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35902148&postcount=19196
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35904399&postcount=19276

More recent ones about the flash memory, the OS, etc:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38001100&postcount=14359
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38012220&postcount=14967
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38455133&postcount=12497
 

joshwaan

Member
About the memory, we got a confirmed Wii U developer giving us informations that narrowed the range between 1GB and 1,5GB.

Then i intervened in the speculation thread 2 and after, hinting that the range for the retail unit, which third-parties were noticed of by Nintendo (it's an information more recent than the target spec that this developer told us), was between 1,5GB and 2GB.

BUT, i added that the OS, the system software layer, and the room the console needs for its functions (like heavy-multitasking, caching of games to store your progression, switch to the dashboard, then switch back where you left, and a lot of background applications running) is huge, at least 512MB. It could be because the system really requires this space, or Nintendo just wasn't sure of the final amount the OS will take so they played it safe and reserved a big part of the total memory for it.

It was later reinforced by the separated flash dedicated to the OS, 512MB. BUT it didn't means the OS will occupy those 512MB, it could be 200MB and 300MB are left free for future system updates, caching, etc, and once loaded into the ram, the "OS" could take 200MB also but need additional space for the features.

Last addition, studios made their games with, 1GB of ram. Don't know if after the expected optimizations/full system functions take, developers could have access to more ram, but for the main part of their development, they couldn't tap from this pool of memory reserved for the system, and had 1GB for them. What you are seeing at E3 are games developed with 1GB "in mind". So with further optimizations, like the 3DS situation, we can expect titles launched further in the lifespan of the system using more memory, up to 1,5GB i would say.

Here's some links for people who want to follow the past talks about the memory:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=35635838&highlight=#post35635838
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=35635906&highlight=#post35635906
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=35635981&highlight=#post35635981
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=35901914#post35901914
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35903897&postcount=19265
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35902148&postcount=19196
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35904399&postcount=19276

More recent ones about the flash memory, the OS, etc:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38001100&postcount=14359
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38012220&postcount=14967
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38455133&postcount=12497


Thanks mate always providing some interesting information to every Wii U thread :)

Also I think games looked quite good and they should look a little better come release of the system :)

I really like Pikmin and Super Mario rest were a bit meh for me :p
 

Log4Girlz

Member
Yes? It's still a non-representative screenshot of a game that was not the only game shown.

There's no reason in the world to ever show off, even for a split second, character models of PSX quality, seriously. Then factor in Mario Wii U, Nintendo Land, Pikmin...and its clear Nintendo has no intention to show anything that approaches any of the current cycle of current-gen software. Nothing approaches Last of Us, Halo 4. This is the prime opportunity to do so. Underwhelming is an understatement.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
I don't mean to stir shit at all but I'm just genuinely curious, how expensive is eDRAM? Seems like it would be a great choice for all of the next-gen systems (maybe in higher numbers) if it can create a framebuffer like that.
 

v1oz

Member
But come on, this was meant to be the MEGA re-reveal of Wii U. The big blowout and showcase of the system. Instead they showed us stuff pretty much the level of last E3, as in, work in progress titles without much polish. What a shitty way to showcase your new, next-gen machine. Seriously, it was pathetic.

No way in hell would MS or Sony do something so lacklustre for their next reveals. They'll both try and blow the roof off. Nintendo gave us 50%+ casual rubbish, yet another 2d mario that can't really show off the system. Pikmin which looked like it could be done on this gen's hardware quite easily, a Batman game that's already 7 months old (probably a year by release time) and doesn't look any better, a new IP that doesn't have polish (ZombieU) and a 10 minute long translated diatribe about shining your lights in a little maze.

The conference was, to me, complete shit.
I agree. The amount of people here making excuses for Nintendo is unbelievable. They've built up suspense, kept us in the dark for full a year only to come out and seriously underwhelm. There's no excuse for the games to be looking like ass - they had 5 years to prepare for this launch.

It's quite disturbing that they failed to come up with a showcase Wii game that will drive the launch. Not a single killer exclusive for the launch window. The GC had Luigis Mansion and Rogue Squadron, both really showed off the new hardware. N64 had Mario 64 (a great tech demo), Pilot Wings and Wave Race which had amazing water physics showing off the power of the CPU. For Wii U I would rather they launched with less games, but with much higher production values.
 

Air

Banned
Really liking the soft focus on the games nintendo demo'd. It's a nice way to make the games look better (it works very well in pikmin and the platinum game).
 

wsippel

Banned
Interesting. Locked D cache and the DMA and write gather pipe are seemingly Nintendo specific features Gekko and Broadway have as well (might even be patented by Nintendo IIRC). The features were designed for faster, more efficient CPU/ GPU communication. From the IBM Gekko data sheet:

Gekko has a direct memory access (DMA) engine to transfer data from the external memory to the locked data cache and to transfer data from the locked data cache to the external memory.
A write gather pipe is implemented for effecient non-cacheable store operations.
So they actually brought that over to a totally new CPU? Was probably necessary for hardware BC, but is certainly also nice to have in native (Wii U) mode. Either way, no off-the-shelf CPU has those features as far as I'm aware.
 
Discounting the Wii, when was the last time a home console launched that didn't have games that looked better than what was offered during the previous generation?

These games don't even match up to what is being offered on 360/PS3, let alone exceed. Pretty limp.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
Discounting the Wii, when was the last time a home console launched that didn't have games that looked better than what was offered during the previous generation?

These games don't even match up to what is being offered on 360/PS3, let alone exceed. Pretty limp.

You shouldn't discount the Wii, seeing as how it was Nintendo's last big hardware reveal.






They do not give a shit about graphics. Not one shit.
 

Shion

Member
The GC had Luigis Mansion and Rogue Squadron, both really showed off the new hardware. N64 had Mario 64 (a great tech demo), Pilot Wings and Wave Race which had amazing water physics showing off the power of the CPU. For Wii U I would rather they launched with less games, but with much higher production values.
Too bad this Nintendo doesn't exist anymore.
 
You shouldn't discount the Wii, seeing as how it was Nintendo's last big hardware reveal.

They do not give a shit about graphics. Not one shit.

I'm trying to remember if there was anything at Wii launch that looked better than Cube/PS2/Xbox. Nothing stands out. But with that console a lack of tech prowess was accepted by many because of the radically new controller.

But if the Wii U really is a step up in terms of power... why isn't anything showing it?

Even Cube launch games looked better than what the PS2 was offering at the time, and that wasn't a whole generation later.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
This happens at the beginning of every gen.

Fruitless arguing about the power of a console with first generation graphics as proof.

Well, this is a special case. Nintendo has never produced games on par with the current, geriatric HD twins, not matching 6 year old hardware is a very big problem.
 

z0m3le

Banned
So No spec news we didn't already know about, and gives us no idea about performance without GPU and CPU clock speed, GFLOPs and number of shaders.
 
Well, this is a special case. Nintendo has never produced games on par with the current, geriatric HD twins, not matching 6 year old hardware is a very big problem.

No it isn't.

There is literally no difference between this and the start of every gen. Wall Guy is the perfect example. People find one game to harp on and declare the console doomed, despite the obvious bottleneck of it being a new system that hasn't been tapped.

I saw your argument 7 years ago: The 360 was never going to see better graphics than Wall Guy. Don't bother buying it it's all over.
 

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
Oh shit you're right. :O it shows that my legacy is from Home-Cinema and Hi-Fi, I'm lucky my magazine's EIC doesn't follow GAF or I'd get so much flak (well deserved, lol) you can't even imagine... Oh wait my magazine folded in December after 40 years in the biz, not a problem then :p
That sucks, sorry to hear it :(

Out of curiosity, what did you do there? Did you get to play with the gear? A part of me would absolutely have loved to work for an A/V magazine! Hell, I used to live and breath them back in the day.

In my prior job I used to travel ... A LOT. First thing I'd do after unpacking at the hotel would be to head to the nearest Borders or B&N and grab some mags I didn't have a subscription to. It was practically a ritual. Since I was getting per diem, I didn't feel bad dropping the $8-10 on a single issue of some foreign press; yours, WhatHiFi, Home Cinema Choice, HiFi Choice, etc.

I really liked that the UK press was serious about audio quality, especially affordable audio. In the US, there were basically two categories of gear magazines. The ones that catered to home theater, where I'd argue audio is secondary to video ... and the dedicated 2-channel magazines that catered to insanely high-end users. There was a pretty serious whole for quality 2-channel (and arguably surround) audio at affordable prices. Granted much of that was a reflection of what components are available in the US ... which in turn is a reflection of US buying habits (unfortunately). I'm jelly of how many great electronics and speaker companies are over the sea.

Anyway ... that shit KEPT ME ALIVE during all my time away T_T

:)

What if they use something like Dolby Digital Live? Btw, I think Nintendo paid Dolby some fees to officially support DOLBY Pro Logic II (even tho we know, given how it works, it wasn't necessary).
Regarding DD Live, I'm not sure if that's even around anymore? Based on Wikipedia, apparently that's how the original XBox did DD. It appears to be dedicated silicon in the soundcard, and happened to be in the XBox's chip (called SoundStorm). I may be wrong but I think nowadays consoles no longer have dedicated soundcards? Pretty sure it's handled via the CPU (or GPU maybe). With that in mind, I definitely can't see Nintendo springing money for extra HW. No way.

As for DPL II, I'm quite sure the licensing costs are minimal versus AC much less the new codecs since it's such an outdated tech. In reality, there is no such thing as DPL II encoding IIRC. As with most codecs, the encoding tends to rarely change (for obvious reasons) ... it's the decoding that improves over time. DPL II, like the original DPL (or even older - Dolby Surround), uses the same traditional four-channel Dolby Surround encode used for cinemas and home since the 80's. It's what a 'Hi Fi' VCR supported. They've just improved the decoding end over the years, and added new (unrelated) features like producing multiple channels from traditional stereo, etc.

So when Nintendo et all where advertising DPL II, in reality they were just encoding 4-channel content that can be decoded by any generation of Pro Logic. II just happened to be the then current offering so Dolby had them use that in the literature.



That's got me thinking though. Imagine if Nintendo doesn't license it? That would mean for a large number of users ... their games will actually have worse audio than their prior generation consoles.

LOL
 
This happens at the beginning of every gen.

Fruitless arguing about the power of a console with first generation graphics as proof.

Does it?

No one was claiming that the PS1/N64 weren't as powerful as the SNES/Mega Drive. No one was claiming that the Dreamcast wasn't more powerful than the PS1/N64. No one was claiming the PS2 wasn't more capable than the Dreamcast. No one was claiming the Cube/Xbox weren't more powerful than the PS2. No one was claiming the 360 wasn't more powerful than the Xbox etc.

Some games may not have looked quite as good at launch in a direct comparison (DOA 2 DC vs PS2 for example), but there were other games like SSX that made it apparent there was extra power under the hood. So some slightly stodgy launch window games are always apparent, but there's almost always something that shows off the potential.
 
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