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Russian ambassador Andrey Karlov assassinated in Ankara
- Thread starter Diancecht
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at 1st i thought this is retaliation for the assassinations in turkey
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38294204
turns out it's revenge for aleppo
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38294204
turns out it's revenge for aleppo
You should leave the house more often.
Yup.
Alot of people didn't pay attention to history classes.
RageWaffles
Member
How does the photographer even walk with balls that big?
NYR
Member
Androidsleeps
Member
The Allahu Akbar! and the chants? I mean, can we please not pretend that islamic terrorism/jihadism doesn't exist?! Actions like this shooting in the name of Aleppo is absolutely motivated by radical teachings of islam (this sickening ideology of "revenge" and "sending a message" in the name of Allah).
So please. These remarks only fuel the bigots/xenophobes.
First of all, this is horrible. RIP
I would draw similarities to the period from 1970 to mid 1980s, rather than WWI.
You mean this is a publicity stunt for Homeland season 6?
I would draw similarities to the period from 1970 to mid 1980s, rather than WWI.
You mean this is a publicity stunt for Homeland season 6?
Media doing what media does best - totally against publishing photos of the killer like he's some sort of mock celebrity.
Errr, yes, islamic terrorism is a thing. This seems like a poor moment to trot out RADICAL ISLAM when Assad and Russia are straight up killing civilians, in Aleppo. I mean, is it so hard to believe he's just pissed they're killing his countrymen? Revenge isn't an 'islamic' thing, invented by Muslims.
Who the fuck pretends it doesn't exist.
It's the reliability of The Sun in question in this context? Am I missing the sarcasm?! Given the state of Russian foreign relations atm my first thought is that it's an inside job although I know that's not a rational position. I guess whatever happens next will give a better reading on that. Very sad for this man's family irrespective.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Do killers who are not motivated by Islam typically shout "Allahu Akbar!"?
All a plan by Owen Hart
Actually in the middle east people shout "Allahu Akbar" all the time; excitement, sorrow, anger, it can be used to express all of these and more.
It's definitely not exclusive to the religious radicals.
The motivating factor here is Russia's involvement in Syria and the subsequent destruction they've wrought, not specifically Islam.
Besides, Allahu Akbar is often proclaimed in many normal and benign situations across the Muslim/Arab world; it's a common expression.
Mr. Giggles
Member
It's a completely common expression... Used everyday.
Like some people use it as an expression for good grief and so on
orthodoxy1095
Banned
It's a phrase used in daily language. Christians even use the phrase in certain areas.
It obvious takes on a different tone when used in the context of some kind of political demonstration of force though.
ManUnkindH
Member
We should all remember this guy and the possible consequences of an act like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip
Funny.
Red Arremer
Member
This is nothing like the assassination of the Archduke of Austria. I seriously don't understand why people keep bringing it up.
In fact, the assassination only catalyzed something that was bound to happen. There was massive political and military tension between the 2 alliance blocks in Europe, and that murder just ignited a powder keg that was going to blow up anyway within a few years.
The context here is entirely different.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
You should also read this thread, the official reactions and the reasons for which this incident is very probably not going to kickstart WW3, let alone any new armed conflict.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Unfortunate...
And the fact that this act will probably overshadow about the real happenings in Aleppo is sad as well...
And the fact that this act will probably overshadow about the real happenings in Aleppo is sad as well...
So, does this seem like a normal and benign situation to you? And why are we ignoring the "We are those who pledged Jihad to Mohammed" part?
Ragnar Blackmane
Member
Many people in the Middle East, especially very arabic countries, literally say "Allahu Akbar" everytime they are thankful for something. "My cat came home after having been missing for 12 hours, Allahu Akbar!". "We can finally leave the office, Allahu Akbar!". It gets used as we would "thank god" instead of the literal "god is great" meaning.
Unless he directly proclaimed his allegiance to the caliphate or ISIS (which he would absolutely do if this was planned by them) there is absolutely no proof for a religious background. I mean are you surprised that he cries "thank god" after he actually succeeded in gunning down his assassination target and standing in front of running cameras and microphones to publizise his message?
If this had happened in the US or Europe you would have a point, but not in Turkey.
I mean I am using Jesus!/thank god all the time and I'm a borderline atheist rather than a fundamentalist christian. It's a common expression.
Ragnar Blackmane
Member
Confirmed by more than one source and how long after the actual event was that reported?
From a user who I assume understood what was said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=226856919&postcount=136
And
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=226860450&postcount=317
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
A disgusting post. So you are saying he wasn't acting like an Islamic terrorist?
Ragnar Blackmane
Member
To be fair "words in Arabic" doesn't necessarily mean a connection to Islamic terrorism. Also the Quran bit does not necessarily mean a connection to that, especially if he was a devout muslim. Also neither of your secondary sources mention the Jihad bit. As I said before he didn't swear any sort of allegiance, which usually even lone wolves do. ISIS will undoubtedly claim responsibility later on, but they do that literally every time there is even a remote chance that it was a fundemental islam motivated attack and if no one else has claimed responsibility beforehand.
Unless there are multiple confirmations of the exact same words you need to be careful, a lot of stuff gets thrown around so close to an event like this and even false information spreads quickly. If there was more meat to it you will see reliable news outlets confirming it soon.
ManUnkindH
Member
Isn't that exactly what's been going on for the past few years in Europe, balkan states and Ukraine? How can people forget atrocities so easily? As easy as we get information in the age of internet, as easy we tend to forget.
political tension - check
military tension - check
powder keg - check
increase in extremist policies and groups in EU - check
MisterFalcon
Member
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...assinated-in-ankara-art-gallery-a7485491.html
If this is not sufficient indication of the shooter having a religious motivation then I don't know what is.
If this is not sufficient indication of the shooter having a religious motivation then I don't know what is.
He was most likely a devout Muslim - it's not clear if there's an ISIS link because the recent events in Aleppo dont have much to do with ISIS. You'd still call this terrorism however, regardless of whom he pleaded or didn't plead allegiance to. Personally motivated perhaps, but the actions are all the same.
In this instance, it's a rallying cry for revenge against those who've had a hand in destroying Syria, of which Russia is a primary player.
Hence, this specific targeting of a Russian diplomat.
You're hyping the religious component far more than necessary here, especially when the shooter clearly outlined why he killed this particular diplomat.
Red Arremer
Member
There is tension, yes, but not on the same level as during the buildup to WW1. Then you had 2 bloated dying world powers and one that was close to civil turmoil, and the involved powers all were trying to expand their spheres of influence. By annexing Bosnia and sending the ultimatum to Serbia, Austria provoked Russia.
Furthermore, the situation then escalated into WW due to alliance chains within the 2 power blocks, something that is not given right now, since there's no such blocks.
Russia will not, in response to this assassination, send an ultimatum to Turkey for them to surrender and be annexed by Russia or face war.
Finally, this assassination is from a terrorist, and the act very likely was an attempt at straining the relation between Turkey and Russia even further. However, since the assassin seems to have been related to a third party (which might've been just himself), this act of terrorism should not cause any conflict between the 2 nations. There will be a common enemy, if anything.
Also: Most of the extremist groups in the EU are friendly towards Russia.
MisterFalcon
Member
He could have killed the Syrian or Iranian ambassador to get the ones even more responsible for the killings but chose this victim who is not a muslim, you think this is a coincidence ?
Ragnar Blackmane
Member
Sure, but it pays off to be careful when it comes to the possibility of Islamic terrorism simply because of the volatile reactions that can cause. I mean nowadays just saying Allahu Akbah results in many people (if not the majority in western countries) thinking you are radical muslim. That's why it is important to be vigilant and diligent when it comes to reposting and spreading singular information, there is just way too much speculation and downright false information being spread after events like this nowadays. It gets even more problematic if big news outlets pick it up and spread it despite not being able to verify it either, that's when the dumpster fires start.
It's always terrorism if it's a violent act motivated by political motives.
... heh, guess my internships at various journalistic outlets is beginning to pay off.
Are you aware of the impact of Russia's participation in the war? They are largely responsible for turning around the tide of the war for Assad.
Not sure why you think Syria or Iran are more guilty than Russia, considering Russia's intervention largely kept Assad's regime from collapsing and significantly aided in bombing rebels moreso than any other military in Syria.
And do you honestly believe the Iranian/Syrian ambassadors are more high profile than the Russian one?
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
If it's wasn't for Russia, Al Assad forces and Iran forces on ground would've collapsed between the rebels and ISIS.
Russia intervention is recent in comparison to Iran support and it flipped the table.
Mr. Giggles
Member
Nope, he would have shot more people in the room.
This was a targeted assassination
Ragnar Blackmane
Member
Pretty much. Russian intervention is what turned the war and ensured the Assad's victory which had become pretty uncertain around august/september last year. They are completely tipping the scales in Assad's favor.
The Russians are also providing a huge part of the air support/barrages that devastated Aleppo, so I'm absolutely not surprised about the choice of assassination target, particularly because it further escalates Turkish/Russian relations which are still very strained.
I loled
Your point being...?
There's nothing particularly funny about the incident that transpired.
Miles Quaritch
Member
It was a targeted assassination. He could have killed more people had he been on the IS/general terrorist kool aid, but he didn't and even made a political statement afterwards.
Just because he shouted God is Great and said Jihad doesn't mean you or anyone else should be attributing other motivations to him because that's what you believe his true intention was.
He made his motivations clear. Don't let your biases get in the way of seeing this for what it is.
Mr. Giggles
Member
Honey Bunny
Member
Many people in the Middle East, especially very arabic countries, literally say "We are the ones who pledged allegiance to Mohammed, to wage jihad." everytime they are thankful for something. "My cat came home after having been missing for 12 hours, We are the ones who pledged allegiance to Mohammed, to wage jihad.!".
Mr. Giggles
Member
False equivalency.
Dude may have been radical but this doesn't mean it wasn't a targeted assassination
Lagspike_exe
Member
Radical Islam needs to be stopped. And if the various Jihadies think they're going to stop the Russians by killing their diplomats they are sorely mistaken.
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