So you don't think Calamity Ganon looks intimidating? I thought it was by far the scariest/creepiest incarnation of Ganon yet. If they wanted to make him look like a horrifying monster, they succeeded.
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-=-=->S P O I L E R S<-=-=- The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild - Spoiler Thread
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So you don't think Calamity Ganon looks intimidating? I thought it was by far the scariest/creepiest incarnation of Ganon yet. If they wanted to make him look like a horrifying monster, they succeeded.
WordAssassin
Member
???
Most recent mainline game: Breath of the Wild's Calamity Ganon, where he's very much a rage-filled beast with little to no humanity.
Last mainline game: Skyward Sword's Demise, "proto-Ganondorf" as he's sometimes called, is not a mindless beast at all.
Second-to-last mainline game: Twilight Princess' Ganondorf has four forms, only one of them is beast mode. The other are possessed Zelda, Ganondorf on horseback, and then a straight up sword fight with Ganondorf.
If Link Between Worlds counts as a mainline game, Ganon/dorf isn't even in that. And if we go back further we have Wind Waker which is probably the best most articulate Ganondorf we've ever gotten. I'm actually struggling to think of any other incarnation of Ganon that is a "mindless beast" outside of BotW, and even then it does progress his character since a little as we learn he was so full of hatred and malice at that point that he gave up on regenerating a human form to become the Calamity Ganon creature and then Mega Ganon.
kunonabi
Member
I don't think he looked scary at all. He was just an even uglier, lamer version of the previous Ganon bosses in the game followed by a super boring beast form that didn't seem to do anything.
I don't play a lot of open-world games but Xenoblade X has been the best one so far for me. How satisfying it would be with less done I can't say but after all the main story, affinity, and normal missions it felt like a great way to end things. I was pretty content with MGSV's ending as well but it would have been nicer to have some sort of instigating event or mission to unlock the ending mission. With BotW it just isn't satisfying with the bare minimum done or everything done.
I do consider ALBW to be mainline, so when I say "last two mainline games", I'm referring to it and BOTW.
There's nothing inherently wrong with the bestial approach. Indeed, having Yuga take control of Ganon in ALBW was a good idea that made the most of it.
My issue is that it robs Ganon of any defineable character traits outside of being a beast. It's not an issue in ALBW because Yuga takes the mantle.
The concept of Ganon being reduced to a mindless force of nature is one they pulled off well in BOTW.
The problem is that, at least for me, Ganon is little more than this in BOTW's main narrative. There's nothing to him apart from being a monster born of malice. That's fine, but I didn't really feel any investment in him as a villain.
Now you could say that him bringing ruin to Hyrule is investment enough - but I feel this is mostly viewed through the lens of Zelda, Link and the other denizens of Hyrule. Ganon's calamity is essentially a plot device with which the other characters react and respond too. Ganon is a means to an end in terms of the story, and his lack of characterisation reflects this.
Again, there's nothing wrong with that. In many ways it's a fresh approach, I feel it's just personal preference on my end.
Take Ocarina for example. Ganondorf takes over and brings Hyrule to the brink of ruin - and we see how this effects Link and others in Hyrule. That Ganondorf has a defined, if incredibly basic, characterisaton provides a degree of investment in defeating him. He doesn't feel removed from his own villainy, which is how it feels with BOTW Ganon most of the time.
I suppose if I were to sum it up, I prefer to storm the throne room and see this...
...as opposed to what we got in BOTW. TP might not be the best example since it's the worst implementation of a villain hijack in the series, but at least he doesn't feel completely removed from proceedings.
EDIT: This section wasn't aimed at you Crayolan! It just flowed better this way.
I personally count ALBW, and Ganon is definitely in it:
https://youtu.be/FJPglIdd6pg
I was counting it and BOTW with regards to him being a mindless beast. You yourself explain why I didn't include the other titles.
WordAssassin
Member
Oh shit really? I shouldn't have spoken so definitively on that, should've said "as far as I'm aware" because I haven't played it and know next to nothing about it >__<
I don't mind knowing though cause now I wanna play it more to get a better idea of where you're comin from
Fleet_of_Foot
Member
If you don't get all the memories, do you not get the true ending?
kunonabi
Member
Ganon giving up on his humanity and just succumbing to his hate, etc. sounds fine in theory but much like everything else in the game in doesn't lead to anything. At first it sounded like if Ganon were defeated than he would no longer be able to revive which would raise the stakes considerably. But you don't really see this desperation in Ganon in any way and the fight itself doesn't feel like the Battle with Ganon to end all Battles with Ganon either. Then Zelda makes an offhand comment about him reincarnating anyway. Like what was the point of any of that then? I'd much rather the see the return of classic pig Ganon if they wanted to show him throwing away his humanity.
Why isn't the fact that Hero not being dead not concerning to Ganon? Does Ganon believe this to be the old hero or does he assume that this a new Link? Why does he have no real reaction to losing the Divine Beasts? I guess you could argue that the different colored enemies are Ganon's reaction to Link's return but that is such a weak way to approach it if that was even the intent.
It also seems like a real missed opportunity to not have Ganon react differently to a Link that just jumps off the plateau and faces him and a Link that as been slowly destroying his forces on his way to Ganon.
Why isn't the fact that Hero not being dead not concerning to Ganon? Does Ganon believe this to be the old hero or does he assume that this a new Link? Why does he have no real reaction to losing the Divine Beasts? I guess you could argue that the different colored enemies are Ganon's reaction to Link's return but that is such a weak way to approach it if that was even the intent.
It also seems like a real missed opportunity to not have Ganon react differently to a Link that just jumps off the plateau and faces him and a Link that as been slowly destroying his forces on his way to Ganon.
InterMusketeer
Gold Member
You need to finish that memory quest to get the true ending.
Ganon comes off as laughably incompetent in the final encounter. He just drops out of his cocoon, looks at Link without any expression on his face, tries nothing to protect himself from the lasers he knows are coming, and then does some stupid attacks he already knows you can deal with.
Like when I saw that, I started wondering how he was even capable of ruining Hyrule. My guess is he didn't actually do anything himself. It's the hacked Guardians that did the dirty work.
Then when he turns into a boar, it gets even worse. He doesn't seem to care about Link at all, calmly shooting lasers in front of him until you've hit the weak spots.
I feel there's so much more they could've done here, even taking technical limitations into account. They could've had him enraged (I mean, he is pure hatred at this point, so it'd make sense), shooting lasers everywhere, stomping his hooves and continuously moving his body in an attempt to kill Link. Or heck, have him shift his focus to destroying the surrounding land in a final attempt to ruin Hyrule for once and for all, with Link having to chase and stop him before too much damage is done.
One thing that annoys me to no end is the dismissal of hand-held/2D games as 'spin-offs'.
Ganon didn't abandon his humanity. It seemingly eroded away. They're was no indication that it would be the 'final' Ganon fight. I assume he stopped reincarnating into the blue pig form, not stopped existing.
Ganon's not exactly sapient at this point.
EDIT:
Though, Impa did mention Link facing Ganon...
Ganon didn't abandon his humanity. It seemingly eroded away. They're was no indication that it would be the 'final' Ganon fight. I assume he stopped reincarnating into the blue pig form, not stopped existing.
Ganon's not exactly sapient at this point.
EDIT:
Didn't Link fall fighting the guardians at Hateno gate? Wasn't that the implication?
Though, Impa did mention Link facing Ganon...
kunonabi
Member
At the start of the second phase Zelda says "He has given up on reincarnation and assumed his pure enraged form." That indicates will and his risking it all on this battle.
Maybe what was meant was that Ganon gave up on reincarnating into a proper humanoid form, and so now was just pure malevolent energy. Not that he was making himself mortal or something.
That would seem to make more sense, I think. Not the way it came across as though.
The cutscenes and boss fights were really clearly put on the backburner for this game as they focused on putting the world together. Hopefully now that they have all these mechanics in place they can provide better script and characterization in the next one.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
We see him running away from Guardians there, but we don't know what happened beforehand.
Hoping the DLC is the battle 100 years ago to clarify.
Reincarnation as in literally "taking flesh again". His entry in the compendium says he stopped taking physical form.
kunonabi
Member
Oh, I suppose that works although that makes Zelda's talking about it seem kind of unimportant. Still, it indicates that he willingly made a choice.
I have a question...:
Is Ganondorf a reincarnation of Demise his hatred or is he his own person and chosen by that curse?
The latter would be cool that would mean the curse heavily corrupted him and even took away his human form.
The former would make Wind Wakers character development pretty strange, why would a part of Demise/Curse care about the Gerudo? Unless the Gerudo served/worshipped Demise.
Is Ganondorf a reincarnation of Demise his hatred or is he his own person and chosen by that curse?
The latter would be cool that would mean the curse heavily corrupted him and even took away his human form.
The former would make Wind Wakers character development pretty strange, why would a part of Demise/Curse care about the Gerudo? Unless the Gerudo served/worshipped Demise.
Basically what she's saying is "Ganon has stopped expending energy on reincarnation so he can use 100% of his power to kill you!" The point she's making is the trying to kill you part but people put emphasis on the "stopped trying to reincarnate part" cuz they thought "forever".
One thing I'm disappointed in the main story is how inconsequential the other tribes are. I started with Zora's dungeon first, so it feels like Link is recruiting new Champions before storming the castle, since each tribe had a champion equivalent. But they were left doing nothing in their town, so it almost feels like their tribe doesn't really care about the calamity.
kunonabi
Member
100% of his power to stand around and do even less than he did as a beast in TP? Sounds like a waste of energy to me. I mean that isn't a terrible angle to take but it doesn't match with what's actually happening very well.
Honestly, nobody seems to really care about anything that's going on in general. The Yiga clan are the only ones that actually seem invested in anything.
Smiles and Cries
Member
I think getting all 120 Shrines is much more of a challenge than the final fight.
I am over 90 shrines and it is a slow go to find the rest even when I check a guide map most of them are now requiring quests
I am over 90 shrines and it is a slow go to find the rest even when I check a guide map most of them are now requiring quests
Well if you scan him the pokedex says: "In this state, his awareness has been consumed entirely by Malice, and all he knows is a desire to rampage and destroy."
So his plan backfired. The power consumed his awareness and caused him to just rampage at random.
I've always thought its both. Ganondorf is Demise reincarnated but he doesn't know he's Demise. I also don't think Link and Zelda know that they've been reincarnated plenty of times in the past.
As far as we know, Demise is not reincarnated into Ganondorf. I always figured that Ganondorf's machinations are a manifestation of Demise's curse. Same as Vaati, Veran, Onox, Bellum, Malladus, Yuga, the Nightmares, the Eight Dragons and Cia.
In the end it's still only Link and Zelda, too. In OOT, we get a big party where everyone is dancing and celebrating the world returned to light. Here we don't see them at all.
The Link and Zelda final scene fits the serene tone of the game, though. Love it.
Same! I found that if I used all the armor I'd acquired, it was pretty easy to just......avoid battling stuff haha.
So weird question, am I the only one that doesn't dig the Calamity Ganon fight? I admit I'm no superstar at deflecting lasers, but it's frustrating that a good portion of the second phase revolves around either getting in super close and hoping he throws the fire swing, or having to deflect lasers.
I've taken it as a figurative curse. He says an incarnation of his hatred will follow their descendants. It basically just boils down to "hatred will always exist." Demise himself was sealed inside the Master Sword.
Geminosity
Member
I see your point but if you think about it, most people aren't Link. The king of the Zoras got scarred fighting just a single guardian and the fight was considered such a feat that it was recorded on a stone tablet. None of the Champions could stand up to the blights and their main contribution to the fight that was planned was piloting a mech rather than getting in there and engaging in combat themselves.
These normal peeps don't have the ability to storm the castle or really deal with the guardians still wandering about, but because Zelda has halted Gannon and bound him to the Castle his power/forces aren't really reaching out to attack them either so they're kind of in this uncomfortable limbo where there's something potentially looming over them but they can't do a lot about it so they just get on with life and try to deal with more immediate problems they might have a chance at :3
That all said, it would've been nice to see at least a few individuals who were giving it a go though. I can't imagine that there wouldn't be at least some people trying to devise a way to fight a guardian or the like.
Milly Osworth
Member
If only all the dungeons were epic. The divine beasts are so boring. But even Hyrule castle was more a setpiece than a cool dungeon.
Geminosity
Member
What would Link have ever done without these guys? They took down 5 lizalfos.
Haha, yeah. I did say it'd be interesting to see someone try... they didn't have to succeed
I think the closest we get, really, is the individuals that assist you against the beasts, though they only seem to be motivated to tackle the beasts because they're enroaching on the villages and therefore perceived as an immediate threat.
You know I'm really surprised they didn't factor climbing into any part of the final battle. Feels like a missed opportunity when things like that usually do play a part in the final battles (like reaction commands in wind waker, or becoming a painting in a link between worlds.)
Would've changed the ending scenario to something like this:
- First phase is fine though would've been cool to chase it up through the castle or something
- Second phase as the beast but Beast Ganon lashes out at the Divine Beasts or their nearby communities through some volcanic-like spew of energy, cue cutscenes of baddies attacking/spawning near those. Champion descendents/inheritants fighting back and survive if you've freed their Divine Beast
- Beast Ganon itself is more dangerous. I was never really under any threat so at least make its hyper beam bigger Shin Godzilla style
- After Link and Zelda beat Beast Ganon everything is calmed and all that malice disappears
- First phase is fine though would've been cool to chase it up through the castle or something
- Second phase as the beast but Beast Ganon lashes out at the Divine Beasts or their nearby communities through some volcanic-like spew of energy, cue cutscenes of baddies attacking/spawning near those. Champion descendents/inheritants fighting back and survive if you've freed their Divine Beast
- Beast Ganon itself is more dangerous. I was never really under any threat so at least make its hyper beam bigger Shin Godzilla style
- After Link and Zelda beat Beast Ganon everything is calmed and all that malice disappears
Haha, yeah. I did say it'd be interesting to see someone try... they didn't have to succeed
I think the closest we get, really, is the individuals that assist you against the beasts, though they only seem to be motivated to tackle the beasts because they're enroaching on the villages and therefore perceived as an immediate threat.
It makes sense though, they've been living with the Calamity for 100 years. As far as most people are concerned it only affects the area around Hyrule Castle.
Geminosity
Member
Yeah, like I said earlier I don't think there's realistically much they could do so the result does make sense. I just think there would at least still be one or two nutcases among the tribes that'd do more than just treasure hunt is all. Heck if they wanted to be dark about it you could've found them after they failed
thesaucetastic
Unconfirmed Member
This is sort of off-topic, but it's kind of shitty to come in here and get spoiled on A Link Between Worlds when this was advertised as BotW spoilers only.
I get the untagged OoT spoilers since timelines, but still. I guess it's tough to police it since there's a lot of cool implications that arise from the connections to previous games (like the shiekah being high tech and the Wind Waker ToG thing), but whatever. I'll just bow out of this thread entirely.
I get the untagged OoT spoilers since timelines, but still. I guess it's tough to police it since there's a lot of cool implications that arise from the connections to previous games (like the shiekah being high tech and the Wind Waker ToG thing), but whatever. I'll just bow out of this thread entirely.
Dude that game released years ago....
Admiral Woofington
Member
I just watched this zelda video and I have to share it because I don't want to be alone in how disturbed I am.
NSFW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtZXMJiQ_gQ
NSFW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtZXMJiQ_gQ
patrickthehedgehog
Member
Finished tonight. My impressions will focus on the negative here, but I truly loved and still love the game.
At the end of my day's playthrough I thought I'd take a quick peek at Hyrule Castle to see what to expect. I found the last memory and just went for it.
Honestly, pretty shocked that it was so easy. Also surprised there was no scene of hundreds of guardians storming the castle or something. Missed opportunity there. This game was overall surprisingly light on well done cutscenes.
I'm going to keep playing the game and doing more shrines / exploring. I'm looking forward to the DLC. I didn't feel like this game was as challenging as it led me to think it would be. No point in stockpiling much of anything or weapons for the end game. Mipha's grace saves the day every single time.
I wasted a good 5 minutes shooting Gannon's final form with ice arrows before I realized I didn't have the bow of light equipped. Still not a problem.
So I guess overall with this game, aside from the size of the world and things to do, I wanted more memorable story sequences, increased difficulty, and larger or more dungeons. Everything else was pretty magical....if you can forget that English voiceover.
At the end of my day's playthrough I thought I'd take a quick peek at Hyrule Castle to see what to expect. I found the last memory and just went for it.
Honestly, pretty shocked that it was so easy. Also surprised there was no scene of hundreds of guardians storming the castle or something. Missed opportunity there. This game was overall surprisingly light on well done cutscenes.
I'm going to keep playing the game and doing more shrines / exploring. I'm looking forward to the DLC. I didn't feel like this game was as challenging as it led me to think it would be. No point in stockpiling much of anything or weapons for the end game. Mipha's grace saves the day every single time.
I wasted a good 5 minutes shooting Gannon's final form with ice arrows before I realized I didn't have the bow of light equipped. Still not a problem.
So I guess overall with this game, aside from the size of the world and things to do, I wanted more memorable story sequences, increased difficulty, and larger or more dungeons. Everything else was pretty magical....if you can forget that English voiceover.
Crimsonlink
Member
My thoughts on what would have made the final fight much better.
There should be a fight in the throne room before the Ganon basement fight.
One where all the blights combined to make a super blight that has elements of all 4 blights. That was really disappointing how they skipped that.
Also it would have been cool if the corrupted Divine Beasts attacked you with lasers and wiped out your hearts depending on how many dungeons you didn't complete. Scaled to your total hearts of course. 3 hearts means 1/4 a heart per Divine Beast you didn't complete if you skipped everything and went straight to Ganon.
In the basement, Zelda should have talked and encouraged you to fight and save Hyrule. Kinda lame how she was trapped with Ganon but never spoke until Ganon's beast form came out.
Speaking of the last portion. Most disappointing part. The death beam laser is stupid easy to dodge. They never changed it up. The Guardians don't even help out Ganon even though they are fighting in Hyrule fields. Hell Ganon could have use them for armor so he isn't just a naked beast where arrows can pierce him easy.
There should be a fight in the throne room before the Ganon basement fight.
One where all the blights combined to make a super blight that has elements of all 4 blights. That was really disappointing how they skipped that.
Also it would have been cool if the corrupted Divine Beasts attacked you with lasers and wiped out your hearts depending on how many dungeons you didn't complete. Scaled to your total hearts of course. 3 hearts means 1/4 a heart per Divine Beast you didn't complete if you skipped everything and went straight to Ganon.
In the basement, Zelda should have talked and encouraged you to fight and save Hyrule. Kinda lame how she was trapped with Ganon but never spoke until Ganon's beast form came out.
Speaking of the last portion. Most disappointing part. The death beam laser is stupid easy to dodge. They never changed it up. The Guardians don't even help out Ganon even though they are fighting in Hyrule fields. Hell Ganon could have use them for armor so he isn't just a naked beast where arrows can pierce him easy.
If you don't defeat the divine beasts you have to fight every Blight in the Sanctum which you didn't beat before fighting Calamity.
Crimsonlink
Member
I know that but that was the lazy way of doing it. Not to mention the blights are nerfed hardcore fighting in that cramped space. You can literally stasis them to death a majority of the time. If they combined to make a new Blight though, it would actually be challenging.
I don't see what's lazy about it. Having to do a boss rush is more difficult and more interesting than just cutting down your health.
Also the combination blight you describe is pretty much what Calamity Ganon is.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Red Dead Redemption, Witcher 3 and AC4 come to mind.
I know I'm late to this but this is exactly what I did.
It looks so damn badass.
Also have Guardian and Lynel shields on the wall and of course the coolest looking bows.
I kind of wish the house had more customization options.
Crimsonlink
Member
Uhh its extremely lazy. Oh you didn't fight the bosses and finish freeing the Divine Beasts? Fight the ones you didn't free. Freed all of them? You get a free pass to the basement fight.
Calamity Ganon is his own thing even if had the power of the all the Blights. He was actually more Guardian like instead of Blight powers with his beams and movements and super armor.
kunonabi
Member
Well, that's the biggest problem he's been extremely simplified to facilitate the whole "head straight for Ganon!" nonsense. He brings pretty much nothing new to the table as flurry rush and parries are the key to fighting him. A glorified Guardian is a good way to put it.
Um... what do you think Calamity Ganon was?
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