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[andthebeatgoeson]

PES will be an example used all this year and beyond I have a feeling. It could be the very catalyst to everything that's being talked about in this thread. If PES Wii sales spike, it could very well become the lead version. PES players would actually seek out the Wii as their preferred platform to play the game on.

It's possible, and in many more genres than football. But IF it happens, it will take baby steps, and might not even see fruition this generation.

As I said, Nintendo forced a change on the industry that the industry wasn't ready to adopt. If Nintendo can continue to remain relevant, especially if they can continue to be the sales leader, companies are going to start figuring out how to makes serious money off of its 20M, 24M, 30M, 35M, etc userbase.

But for this to happen, I have a feeling Nintendo will have to lead the charge themselves and KEEP themselves relevant and the sales leader... because it certainly isn't going to happen based even in large part on current third party support. It's definitely possible for them to do this.. just far from guaranteed. Although all they really need is another Nintendogs, Wii Sports, Animal Crossing, etc. Actually, thinking about it, Wii Fit is pretty much make or break for Nintendo. If Wii Fit fails, I have a feeling that eventually Nintendo will take a sound 2nd place to "HD gaming" in the mass market this gen. If Wii Fit succeeds, Nintendo could very well quell "HD gaming" in the eyes of the mass market for the remainder of the generation.

It's weird to question the relevance of Nintendo when they are selling near-half a million consoles and over half a million handhelds in February. I'm not sure how they can, 'more' keep themselves relevant. They have Wii sports, Wii play. Wii Fit looks to continue the plague. And Mario Galaxy and GH3 and now Smash Bros will be filling out a great 12 month period. Add in Mario Kart, the inevitable next "Wii ___" title and your questions about relevancy seem...odd. You spent a few good posts about how they are shifting the industry. Well, that's pretty relevant.

 

[Mdk7]

Awesome read, thanks!

 

[LizardKing]

these relative numbers can change before you know it. ps2 had 30 million install base in 3 years in the us. And as far as i know wii is still selling faster (maybe not anymore) either way it's close. Sales are usually better in years 2 and 3 for a console. 360's sales already dropped YoY. Wii will still pass both of them combined unless ps3 gets real hot, and it will do it next year is my bet.

 

[Neomoto]

I think the Wii just needs a couple 3rd party heavy hitters that can show that there is a userbase to support massive sales outside of Nintendo titles. Games like GH3 and Red Steel 2 (hopefully the last one will make an impact in the positive way) and maybe Rock Band Wii. Wii's userbase is growing like it's on steroids and it already has a lot of million sellers, and even a (lesser) version of a multiplatform game like Guitar Hero 3 can sell very, very well (nearing 2 million already).

I just find it very strange how some publishers think about the Wii. They don't even try one really big game (not even a port) to see how it goes. And then complain they can't compete and more excuses. And company's like Ubisoft seemed to know what's up early on and then they screw it all up real fucking bad. It doesn't make sense (not to mention that the DS library isn't exactly booming with top quality western 3rd party games either).

I think, that the DS and Wii have more than proven that there is a massive new audience for video gaming as a industry (and still has enough hardcore crowd to support 1.4 million sales in 6 days in the US alone). Then why the fuck aren't developers making a lot of efforts? Surely it's in everyone's best interest if the new found massive audience won't go away? They can't support both HD and "New-gen" platforms?

 

[Kosma]

It's mid gen, you people still care and think stuff will change?

:lol

 

[AniHawk]

It's mid gen, you people still care and think stuff will change?

:lol

mid gen? Already? Who do you think will release their next system first?

For comparison's sake, the PS2 was released 1.5 years into that generation's cycle, and the Gamecube didn't come out until three years after it had started.

 

[Starchasing]

Actually Wii and GC do not have the same architecture more leaks and leaks have been coming out and I'm honestly wondering what nintendo has to lose on this issue. They do devs can't claim it's really a souped a gc on xbox's level, yet as usual showing how much they really know as usualy. A little leaked happened over the past few weeks over a confusion of the tev and what it can do. The leaked showed things have changed within the gpu, not dramatically though more like superset things needed to make performance claims. The cpu isn't the same, the gpu clearly isn't as more people talk about it, gddr3 isn't the same and about the only thing that is the same is the original 24MB ram module but even that was swapped up for a better version of what the company offers. Nintendo does this and they could give a massive stfu to both devs and disillusioned gamers both in the press or in general.

They share the same rendering api and component layouts to a degree after if you actually knew what was in both fully you'd be quite suprised.

I did not get what are you trying to say??? would you care to rephrase or summarize?

 

[mentalfloss]

Of what type? exclusive games targetted at core gamers? or more exclusive casual titles from EA,THQ,Take-Two, etc?

Both. We're already starting to see an influx of arcade shooters on the system that are making me wet my pants.

 

[Kosma]

mid gen? Already? Who do you think will release their next system first?

For comparison's sake, the PS2 was released 1.5 years into that generation's cycle, and the Gamecube didn't come out until three years after it had started.

Youre not counting from dreamcast launch are you? I know youre not. You know better.

All I'm saying, shit won't change anymore.

 

[borghe]

It's weird to question the relevance of Nintendo when they are selling near-half a million consoles and over half a million handhelds in February. I'm not sure how they can, 'more' keep themselves relevant. They have Wii sports, Wii play. Wii Fit looks to continue the plague. And Mario Galaxy and GH3 and now Smash Bros will be filling out a great 12 month period. Add in Mario Kart, the inevitable next "Wii ___" title and your questions about relevancy seem...odd. You spent a few good posts about how they are shifting the industry. Well, that's pretty relevant.

not "more" relevant. "remain" relevant. despite what people are saying, it is very early in this gen. we have likely at LEAST another 4-5 years left in it. that is 4 to 5 years that nintendo has to keep their message alive about the wii and a different style of gaming. Remember, the mass market is fickle. If Wii turns out to be DVD, Nintendo is safe. If Wii turns out to be Tickle Me Elmo, they will have an uphill battle. Nintendo needs to assure that they continue to have the Wii Sports, Wii Fits, Brain Trainings, Nintendogs, etc coming out for Wii. They CANNOT keep their release schedules of the last two gens, and they CANNOT rely on their main franchises as they have for the last three gens. The people who are going to blow Wii open don't care about GTAIV and MGS4, and they don't care about Zelda and Mario.

IMHO, Nintendo has a Zelda, Mario, Metroid, etc out this gen. Work on maybe getting one more of each of their franchise titles out over the course of the rest of this gen, and focus the rest of their efforts on keeping this new expansion audience entertained. They hooked them in with Wii Sports, now they have to keep their attention, even if for only one, two, or three other games over the rest of this gen.

Youre not counting from dreamcast launch are you? I know youre not. You know better.

DC was the launch of that gen. It was a substantive leap over the PSX/N64/Saturn. It's relative success of failure means nothing when all that's being contended is that DC games looked a lot closer to PS2 games than they did PSX/N64 games.

 

[Kosma]

DC was the launch of that gen. It was a substantive leap over the PSX/N64/Saturn. It's relative success of failure means nothing when all that's being contended is that DC games looked a lot closer to PS2 games than they did PSX/N64 games.

History forgets it's failures and grants titles of big revolutions or generational leaps to those who are actually succesful. That's why no one talks about the Polish constitution that was there before the French Revolution, because it failed. Same with the Dreamcast, buried and forgotten by the sands of time.

 

[Vagabundo]

Actually Wii and GC do not have the same architecture more leaks and leaks have been coming out and I'm honestly wondering what nintendo has to lose on this issue. They do devs can't claim it's really a souped a gc on xbox's level, yet as usual showing how much they really know as usualy. A little leaked happened over the past few weeks over a confusion of the tev and what it can do. The leaked showed things have changed within the gpu, not dramatically though more like superset things needed to make performance claims. The cpu isn't the same, the gpu clearly isn't as more people talk about it, gddr3 isn't the same and about the only thing that is the same is the original 24MB ram module but even that was swapped up for a better version of what the company offers. Nintendo does this and they could give a massive stfu to both devs and disillusioned gamers both in the press or in general.

They share the same rendering api and component layouts to a degree after if you actually knew what was in both fully you'd be quite suprised.

So the rumours where true after all. I had given up visiting that site, I got tired of waiting for the leaks.

I'm back there now looking through the recent threads, do you know what the thread was called?

 

[borghe]

History forgets it's failures and grants titles of big revolutions or generational leaps to those who are actually succesful. That's why no one talks about the Polish constitution that was there before the French Revolution, because it failed. Same with the Dreamcast, buried and forgotten by the sands of time.

technically the DC was not a failure, sega was. The DC was actually successful, but sega was not financially stable enough to continue to support the system against PS2. But arguing the DC failed is forgetting that in just a year and a half it actually had a number of million sellers worldwide and successfully managed to launch the first ever console MMO (sort of), not to mention had system sales that were higher than any console in any generation before it during the same time frame.

So again, the DC was successful, it was Sega that failed.

 

[Starchasing]

So the rumours where true after all. I had given up visiting that site, I got tired of waiting for the leaks.

I'm back there now looking through the recent threads, do you know what the thread was called?

What rumours?¿? What site?!?

I want to know about that

 

[Vagabundo]

What rumours?¿? What site?!?

I want to know about that

Hmmm juicy stuff, way over my head. Even some Wii SDK doc scan... yum yum...

Wii GPU is the tip of an iceberg.

Follow the white rabbit.

Something something PandaKun...

 

[Metal Gear?!]

Thats something I also never understood why do gamers give a shit what everyone thinks? As a gamer i never cared whether people found gaming stupid or not, its what I like to do just like there are people who play sports or skateboard or etc. Gaming community needed to some balls and not worry about what unimportant people think.

 

[nightside]

Hmmm juicy stuff, way over my head. Even some Wii SDK doc scan... yum yum...

Wii GPU is the tip of an iceberg.

Follow the white rabbit.

Something something PandaKun...

this could be a very interesting reading...can i ask what site is it?

 

[Threi]

So the rumours where true after all. I had given up visiting that site, I got tired of waiting for the leaks.

I'm back there now looking through the recent threads, do you know what the thread was called?

On beyond3d, if you can get past the Wii hate, they have some decent discussion on the internals of the Hollywood and Broadway (sometimes). From what i have seen both are the same architecture, but the GPU specifically is really modified from the GCN's GPU.

The mystery third chip/core/space that everyone was wondering about isn't exactly a HIDDEN POWA chip, but it was there to handle encryption and the wireless functionality of the console.

If i were to make a broad statement all Nintendo did with the GCN > Wii transition was make an efficient architecture even more efficient. It is definitely more capable than the original XBOX.

 

[Starchasing]

On beyond3d, if you can get past the Wii hate, they have some decent discussion on the internals of the Hollywood and Broadway (sometimes). From what i have seen both are the same architecture, but the GPU specifically is really modified from the GCN's GPU.

The mystery third chip/core/space that everyone was wondering about isn't exactly a HIDDEN POWA chip, but it was there to handle encryption and the wireless functionality of the console.

If i were to make a broad statement all Nintendo did with the GCN > Wii transition was make an efficient architecture even more efficient. It is definitely more capable than the original XBOX.

So they hide the encryption on the GPU??? thats weird...

So its not as powerfull but it is more efficient?

I guess we will have to wait for Factor 5 game to see how far Wii can go...


sorry about the derailment

 

[Threi]

So they hide the encryption on the GPU??? thats weird...

So its not as powerfull but it is more efficient?

I guess we will have to wait for Factor 5 game to see how far Wii can go...


sorry about the derailment

I dunno but its pretty far off how a typical PC box works that's for sure...

 

[Vagabundo]

On beyond3d, if you can get past the Wii hate, they have some decent discussion on the internals of the Hollywood and Broadway (sometimes). From what i have seen both are the same architecture, but the GPU specifically is really modified from the GCN's GPU.

The mystery third chip/core/space that everyone was wondering about isn't exactly a HIDDEN POWA chip, but it was there to handle encryption and the wireless functionality of the console.

If i were to make a broad statement all Nintendo did with the GCN > Wii transition was make an efficient architecture even more efficient. It is definitely more capable than the original XBOX.

Yeah that where I have been lurking for a long time waiting for leaks(and gave up). There is a thread there about GPGPU usage for hollywood, it has a link to some forums at Wiire that has some leaked shots from a SDK, supposedly. I doubt this is what LCGeek was talking about (who posts at beyond3d.com if I'm not mistaken) as it is not very meaty.

Does the encryption really make up the extra space? Seems like a lot of die for that.

I think Nintendo fixed things that needed fixing with the GC and the Wii is a neat little machine that you can get some nice results from even running unoptimised code.

The real question is, if you know what your doing, what could you get from it. I think a lot of devs have just been plonking down stuff on it and because it works good enough there isn't a lot of pushing, also doing controls right takes a lot of dev time, methinks. It doesn't help that they (devs) did not get a lot of exposure to the GC's arch...

So its not as powerfull but it is more efficient?

It is more powerful that flipper (GC GPU) in that it is more efficient (less watts), more freq and with access to more memory. It also has more features than it's predecessor, but it is not a generational leap from a console perspective, it is more like a new chip model from a PC perspective..

 

[bafflewaffle]

So now we are strange for buying Z&W, REC,RE4,NMH and soon PES WII in droves but refusing to buy something that looks like an insult? :lol

Opoona looks better than Disgaea 3, but Disgaea 3 sold better than Opoona.

 

[Starchasing]

Yeah that where I have been lurking for a long time waiting for leaks(and gave up). There is a thread there about GPGPU usage for hollywood, it has a link to some forums at Wiire that has some leaked shots from a SDK, supposedly. I doubt this is what LCGeek was talking about (who posts at beyond3d.com if I'm not mistaken) as it is not very meaty.

Does the encryption really make up the extra space? Seems like a lot of die for that.

I think Nintendo fixed things that needed fixing with the GC and the Wii is a neat little machine that you can get some nice results from even running unoptimised code.

The real question is, if you know what your doing, what could you get from it. I think a lot of devs have just been plonking down stuff on it and because it works good enough there isn't a lot of pushing, also doing controls right takes a lot of dev time, methinks. It doesn't help that they (devs) did not get a lot of exposure to the GC's arch...



It is more powerful that flipper (GC GPU) in that it is more efficient (less watts), more freq and with access to more memory. It also has more features than it's predecessor, but it is not a generational leap from a console perspective, it is more like a new chip model from a PC perspective..

For me what is interesting is that Iwata once said "When you see Revolution graphics you will say wow" . But then after a while they started downplaying the importance of graphics. It seems like a decision was made in the middle to put emphasis on the controls, to the extend of exagerating the lack of power.

It would make sense from a marketing point of view to this. First grab the casuals, send the message that graphics are not that important. Then hardocre gamers will bitch and moan, but also have lower expectations. After the controls have been accepted is time to move and provide better graphics.

Im not saying that Wii would reach 360 graphics, but maybe it could reach graphics good enough for hardcore gamers stop complaining. If Nintendo planned it that way Wii could be an even bigger success.