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[darkpaladinmfc]

Your multiplayer diamond league opinions don't mean shit to me.

Your Rank 1 Grandmaster league in Korea idea of removing Sentries and radically changing the warp-in mechanic don't mean shit to me or anyone else.

 

[pieatorium]

Certainly not by me, I'd help you actually, as long as you don't say forcefields and warp-in should be removed and then call me an idiot!


Just re-read that and think about how ridiculous it sounds coming from anyone in any league.

It would improve the game (sentry removal) it's not like they are aguing to just remove sentries and not rebalance protoss, is that what you thought?

 

[HolyCheck]

yeah reading this thread makes me feel like you have to play at the gsl to get at least to be able to post here.

im sure the grandmasters here will even laugh at ogsmc or nestea looking how skilled they seem to be

it's farnham!

where you been man!

 

[Technosteve]

I don't give a shit about multiplayer I am here for solo player where me and Kerrigan make sweet Zerg babies.

 

[Yoshichan]

Just re-read that and think about how ridiculous it sounds coming from anyone in any league.

How exactly is it ridiculous? They've said they're going to remove and change units drastically in the game. A change/or/and removal of the forcefield doesn't mean the end of toss if they simply change how it works completely. In an interview with Idra, he also said that Blizzard knew that the warp-in was a rush job. They wanted toss to have some mobility and decided "eh, just throw in immediate warp-in through any part of the map and it'll be fine).

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

It would improve the game (sentry removal) it's not like they are aguing to just remove sentries and not rebalance protoss, is that what you thought?

Such radical changes are for StarCraft III, not StarCraft II. Removing such things are like removing marines and marauders from Terran, when Blizzard said they'd remove boring units they meant stuff like Overseer and maybe Reaper, not marines and sentries...

How exactly is it ridiculous? They've said they're going to remove and change units drastically in the game. In an interview with Idra, he also said that Blizzard knew that the warp-in was a rush job. They wanted toss to have some mobility and decided "eh, just throw in immediate warp-in through any part of the map and it'll be fine).

You really can't see how its ridiculous? The warp-in mechanic was decided very early on in development, and Blizzard had all the way through beta to make any major changes they wanted to. Are you going to propose they severely change the larva injection mechanic too? Saying you want these changes just comes across as balance whining, which is stupid at Diamond league, Grandmaster league, and 'GSL league'.

 

[farnham]

i believe that warp in has become an integral part of protoss play at this point. they will not remove this feature imho but im not nestea, immvp or ogsmc so i have no right to have an opinion

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

i believe that warp in has become an integral part of protoss play at this point. they will not remove this feature imho but im not nestea, immvp or ogsmc so i have no right to have an opinion

No you're correct, if you we're MVP, MC or Nestea and proposed the opposite, you'd be INCORRECT. That's why Yoshichan's post is so stupid, and therefore just comes across as balance whining, which I've said before is stupid at Bronze league, Diamond league, Grandmaster league and 'GSL' league.

 

[Pandaman]

You really can't see how its ridiculous? The warp-in mechanic was decided very early on in development, and Blizzard had all the way through beta to make any major changes they wanted to. Are you going to propose they severely change the larva injection mechanic too? Saying you want these changes just comes across as balance whining, which is stupid at Diamond league, Grandmaster league, and 'GSL league'.

uh.. remember warpin during beta was like a 80 second upgrade. it WAS a rushjob addition unlike inject.

 

[hamchan]

No you're correct, if you we're MVP, MC or Nestea and propsed the opposite, you'd be INCORRECT.

No. MVP, MC and Nestea are really high level players. Relative to them everyone else is low level. Therefore their opinions > yours and everyone elses.

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

uh.. remember warpin during beta was like a 80 second upgrade. it WAS a rushjob addition unlike inject.

It was 60 actually , but the actual mechanic has been exactly the same since before beta, and they could have changed that if they wanted to. Larva injection has changed more than warp-in as far as I know.

No. MVP, MC and Nestea are really high level players. Relative to them everyone else is low level. Therefore their opinions > yours and everyone elses.

How do you feel about Idra's whining?

 

[HolyCheck]

It was 60 actually , but the actual mechanic has been exactly the same since before beta, and they could have changed that if they wanted to. Larva injection has changed more than warp-in as far as I know.



How do you feel about Idra's whining?

Idra whines every single day though.

 

[Tacitus_]

How do you feel about Idra's whining?

Even though Idra plays at about the same level, you can't take his whining seriously. When JP was interviewing him in SotG after he won IPL, he said in the interview that Zerg wins no tournaments.

Incontrols reaction to it was hilarious :lol

 

[Won]

Hmm, I expected more WoL story hating over the day. Not this. Interesting read!

Also interesting to hear that they may remove units from multi. I just hope they give me a replacement for me CE Thor skin, when it happens!

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

Even though Idra plays at about the same level, you can't take his whining seriously. When JP was interviewing him in SotG after he won IPL, he said in the interview that Zerg wins no tournaments.

Incontrols reaction to it was hilarious :lol

I'm aware, and that's my point . Idra complained about Protoss for so long (which were actually doing the worst back in November, and no patch was responsible for their period of dominance), and now most top level Protoss and Terrans are having trouble with Zerg, therefore you shouldn't talk about balance like that, and Yoshichan's post (which sparked this whole debate) is just balance whining really.

Also interesting to here that they may remove units from multi. I just hope they give me a replacement for me CE Thor skin, when it happens!

Overseer and possibly Reaper are prime candidates. David Kim said that they plan to make early game scouting 'better' so in theory that would make the Overseer near-useless (giving detection to a more interesting unit perhaps) and the Reaper near-useless (unless they decide to buff the Reaper somehow instead of removing it, which I would prefer).

 

[pieatorium]

Such radical changes are for StarCraft III, not StarCraft II. Removing such things are like removing marines and marauders from Terran, when Blizzard said they'd remove boring units they meant stuff like Overseer and maybe Reaper, not marines and sentries...

I dont think it would be that radical, at least in comparison to the changes made from vanilla sc to broodwar. Also Marauders are a much more boring unit than reapers imo.

Overseer and possibly Reaper are prime candidates. David Kim said that they plan to make early game scouting 'better' so in theory that would make the Overseer near-useless (giving detection to a more interesting unit perhaps) and the Reaper near-useless (unless they decide to buff the Reaper somehow instead of removing it, which I would prefer).

Reaper is the best early game scout though so thats kinda contradictory.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Nice. So no unit building, or resource gathering in this one? More of my playstyle. I just love the StarCraft universe, its why I play. Not a real big RTS fan.

 

[Warrior_Keoni]

Are we going to have more branching storyline options? Oddly enough, didn't seem they really affected anything if just adding more missions instead.

Ah well, the new screens look great, and hopefully a release date will be out sometime soon.

 

[The Lamonster]

and even purchase user-generated content.

what the fuck???

 

[MurkyZebra2417]

Sorry if answered before, so the story takes place parallel to WoL or before?

 

[pieatorium]

Sorry if answered before, so the story takes place parallel to WoL or before?

after

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

I dont think it would be that radical, at least in comparison to the changes made from vanilla sc to broodwar. Also Marauders are a much more boring unit than reapers imo.

What? Brood War added some units and upgrades, it didn't radically change any fundamental mechanics of a race.

By boring they meant not useful, Marauders are a huge part of SC2, whereas Reapers are sometimes used early on and then very rarely later on in the game (obviously there are some exceptions before someone calls me an idiot and posts Genius vs QXC G2).

Reaper is the best early game scout though so thats kinda contradictory.

The problem is the Reaper isn't very open, it confines you to certain builds, that's why you don't see it used every game, they could replace the Reaper with something more 'open' or make the Reaper itself more open. If they stick with the Reaper (which I think they should) they should also add some sort of incentive to use it in the late stages of the game. But hey what do I know, I obviously 4gate all day.

 

[MurkyZebra2417]

after

SC2 ending spoiler:

Spoiler

So they already spoilered that Kerrigan turns back?

 

[The Lamonster]

Sorry if answered before, so the story takes place parallel to WoL or before?

Directly following the first one, as is the case with most sequels.

 

[ultron87]

what the fuck???

I don't see anything wrong with giving people who put a shit load of work into custom maps a bit of money for their efforts.

If they add the ability to have a custom ladder with matchmaking for custom games as well as a way to keep a map updated I'd totally drop a dollar or two on some of my favorite custom games.

 

[The Lamonster]

I don't see anything wrong with giving people who put a shit load of work into custom maps a bit of money for their efforts.

If they add the ability to have a custom ladder with matchmaking for custom games as well as a way to keep a map updated I'd totally drop a dollar or two on some of my favorite custom games.

You're assuming Blizzard is giving that money to the modders.

 

[Tacitus_]

You're assuming Blizzard is giving that money to the modders.

That's the whole point of adding the Marketplace.

 

[Concept17]

2012 is so far away

 

[Yoshichan]

The amount of times darkpaladinmfc has mentioned my name in solely this page alone makes me feel all comfy inside. It's as if he really loves me but haven't got the balls to just say it straight out.

I said that forcefields should be removed since it deletes micro out of the battle in almost all situations. I also said that warp-in needs to be changed in some way, shape or form. Blizzard has more competent people than me, you and your brother - they're a team with many ideas. Changing the warp-in is a big change, absolutely! But again, changing it to something else that's just a tiny bit less "mobile" and less "Oh-shit-he's-attacking-my-expansion-panic-warp-in" is something Blizzard is able to do. Is it gonna happen? Most likely not. Should it happen? Yes, yes it should.

Now what you've done throughout the whole thread is continuously saying that you're in "borderline" ranks and that your amazing brother is even more amazing than we think. And because of this, everyone should shut the hell up while the two (three?) of us remaining in this thread should proceed on with the discussion.

After a couple of posts though, you realized this had nothing to do with imba, and you're trying to get out of it. It was simply a discussion of change.

and the Reaper near-useless (unless they decide to buff the Reaper somehow instead of removing it, which I would prefer).

Giving them the ability to stim like in early beta-stages is probably overkill - but I feel that something just as big needs to be changed if reapers are gonna be viable again.

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

The amount of times darkpaladinmfc has mentioned my name in solely this page alone makes me feel all comfy inside. It's as if he really loves me but haven't got the balls to just say it straight out.

I said that forcefields should be removed since it deletes micro out of the battle in almost all situations. I also said that warp-in needs to be changed in some way, shape or form. Blizzard has more competent people than me, you and your brother - they're a team with many ideas. Changing the warp-in is a big change, absolutely! But again, changing it to something else that's just a tiny bit less "mobile" and less "Oh-shit-he's-attacking-my-expansion-panic-warp-in" is something Blizzard is able to do. Is it gonna happen? Most likely not. Should it happen? Yes, yes it should.

I've mentioned your name twice? Forcefield does not delete micro out of the battle (unless your one of those Zergs who still only goes Roach Hydra and complains about balance), a much more intelligent thing to say would be to give the other races a more accessible massive unit for instance, saying that forcefields should be removed is just stupid and is such an 'Idra' statement. The way you're talking makes it seem you want a radical change, not something that makes Protoss a tiny bit less mobile (which is something Protoss lacks any ways -- but I'm not saying that Protoss should be mobile either). You can't make such bold statements at your level, my level, or Idra's level.

 

[Yoshichan]

By the way darkpaladinmfc, just out of curiosity. What do you play as?

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

By the way darkpaladinmfc, just out of curiosity. What do you play as?

Protoss, but I'm also Masters league level with Terran (just about, I'm not very good with Terran). I'd react the same way if you said that larvae inject should be radically changed because it allows Zerg to hard counter everything perfectly, or something else along those lines.

 

[pieatorium]

What? Brood War added some units and upgrades, it didn't radically change any fundamental mechanics of a race.

By boring they meant not useful, Marauders are a huge part of SC2, whereas Reapers are sometimes used early on and then very rarely later on in the game (obviously there are some exceptions before someone calls me an idiot and posts Genius vs QXC G2).



The problem is the Reaper isn't very open, it confines you to certain builds, that's why you don't see it used every game, they could replace the Reaper with something more 'open' or make the Reaper itself more open. If they stick with the Reaper (which I think they should) they should also add some sort of incentive to use it in the late stages of the game.

Lurkers changed up things pretty drastically

For sure it limits your build options but that doesn't change how good of an early scout it is, you give up that scouting to go for a different tech or a more economical opening.
Going for a non fast expand build without reapers will generally get you in or around your opponents base anyway either through banshees, reactor hellion, bfh drop or 2 rax bio push and techrax expand is where reaper is quite often seen which mostly leaves 1 rax gasles expo or seigetank expand.

 

[Yoshichan]

Protoss, but I'm also Masters league level with Terran (just about, I'm not very good with Terran).

Ok, it's fine that you're not good with terran. As long as you're Masters-league-good with them, you can say whatever you want. Go on!

 

[mescalineeyes]

just when I thought Teamliquid was a shithole, this happens...

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

Lurkers changed up things pretty drastically

For sure it limits your build options but that doesn't change how good of an early scout it is, you give up that scouting to go for a different tech or a more economical opening.
Going for a non fast expand build without reapers will generally get you in or around your opponents base anyway either through banshees, reactor hellion, bfh drop or 2 rax bio push and techrax expand is where reaper is quite often seen which mostly leaves 1 rax gasles expo or seigetank expand.

Brood War did change a lot, but HotS will also add new units too.

Of course the Reaper is a good scout, but Blizzard said they want to make early game scouting easier for all races, and making a Reaper can be a liability in itself. As a Protoss, if I see a Reaper I get so much information, and if I react properly I can possibly deny it as well. The aggressive builds you mentioned force you to make a decision long before you scout, and making a Reaper stops (or delays) all of those builds (except 2 rax bio pressure, I'm not sure whether you mean a 1 tech lab 1 reactor pressure into expansion or not?).

Ok, it's fine that you're not good with terran. As long as you're Masters-league-good with them, you can say whatever you want. Go on!

Anyone can say whatever they want as long as it isn't completely stupid or balance whining.

 

[HolyCheck]

just when I thought Teamliquid was a shithole, this happens...

It's like some one reskinned TL to look like gaf..

 

[pieatorium]

Brood War did change a lot, but HotS will also add new units too.

Of course the Reaper is a good scout, but Blizzard said they want to make early game scouting easier for all races, and making a Reaper can be a liability in itself. As a Protoss, if I see a Reaper I get so much information, and if I react properly I can possibly deny it as well. The aggressive builds you mentioned force you to make a decision long before you scout, and making a Reaper stops (or delays) all of those builds (except 2 rax bio pressure, I'm not sure whether you mean a 1 tech lab 1 reactor pressure into expansion or not?).

yeah 1 lab 1 reactor is what i meant, i would have said cheese if i meant 2 raxing vs zerg

 

[Ikuu]

This thread is pretty hilarious.

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

yeah 1 lab 1 reactor is what i meant, i would have said cheese if i meant 2 raxing vs zerg

I've seen some people play around with 2 rax (no add-ons) marine pressure into expansion, it can be scary especially because they could all-in you, so I wasn't sure what you meant . I'm not prepared to talk too much about TvZ, because as I said before my Terran isn't very good.

 

[Bisnic]

Why did this thread turned into boring multiplayer pros talk?

I guess its not worst than people complaining about shitty Starcraft story or how they hate Kerrigan turned back into a human, but whatever.

 

[cubicle47b]

Instead of removing force field completely they could change it so force fields can't overlap. Creating chokes is fine, completely trapping and killing off segments of an army is stupid. Fungal needs a big change too.

Warp-in is a stupid mechanic that should never have been implemented but I can't see them taking it away now.

 

[J-Rod]

I don't know if I like the idea of removing units. It sounds a bit scary to me.

 

[KareBear]

Q: How long was the production cycle?

A: Ongoing - I've said some numbers in the past. We didn't get started in earnest on HosS until the new year, however, we have been doing art and design concepts since the release of WoL. It's really difficult to say how long the production will be.

Wow thats disgraceful.

 

[farnham]

Why did this thread turned into boring multiplayer pros talk?

I guess its not worst than people complaining about shitty Starcraft story or how they hate Kerrigan turned back into a human, but whatever.

she will turn back into a zerg now

rejoyce!!

 

[Tenks]

Wow Panda is far more reasonable and sensible than I remember him being from the SC2 threads.

In regards to the current argument the concept of "mobility" may be getting muddied by definitions. Protoss requires their entire composition to really be effective -- hence splitting their ball is effective. This makes it appear like Protoss is immobile but in reality it is more their composition is rigid.

Panda is fairly correct about Terran mobility. We do need to know what is coming because an unmicroed Terran army instantly gets evaporated. This is more-so true in the TvZ matchup than the TvP matchup. Since marines are really, really good Blizzard needed to make them really, really counterable. If we go blindly walking around we can run into a baneling wave or 4 Colossus w/ Force Fields and lose our entire backbone. However we also have ways around this because our dropship also heals shit. Also bio is very, very good in small numbers making our drops by far the best of the three races. So if you're going drop-harass bio the mobility really isn't that bad. If you really need to know what is coming ahead of you simply stim a unit at the front to lead your army.

Now if you go mech you have around zero mobility. And it is painful to play.

 

[The Lamonster]

Wow thats disgraceful.

Yeah what exactly have they been doing since July to the end of 2010?

 

[pieatorium]

Wow thats disgraceful.

They been getting d3 done (i can dream)

 

[notworksafe]

Hm. I already saw the ending months ago when it was leaked on here. More Blizzard fanfiction trash. Should have left Kerrigan (and the Zerg as a whole) as a badass, and not Jim Raynor's little sidekick.

MP will still be fun though, I'm sure.

what the fuck???

This is not a new development.

 

[Tenks]

I don't know if I like the idea of removing units. It sounds a bit scary to me.

I wonder just how far they're going with the removal. There are certain units and spells in SC2 I simply do not like from a competitive RTS player perspective. To name names those spells are Fungal, NP and Force Field. I also don't exactly care for the void ray from a design perspective. However knowing Blizzard, and participating in the beta for so long, they probably mean they'll remove the Overseer and Infested Terran.