Support NeoGAF

[I H8 Memes]

After enjoying this video immensely, I got to wondering if this sort of thing has happened in other competitive games on a tournament level. Obviously it's more likely to occur in fighting games than other genres, given the quick nature of sets during pool play, but I'd be really interested to see similar situations in other types of games. If you know of any other videos of this kind of scrubtacular upset, please share them in this thread.

This is only possible in fighting games. In any type of competition level fps like CS or Quake twitch pixel accurate shooting abilities would negate any type of unorthodox playstyle even if that playstyle were to trip the better player up. The close distance between the players in a FG probably helps in that regard. Even a bad player is close enough to his opponent to perhaps win if he can throw his timing off enough.

This would also never happen in an rts or moba. Never. The skill ceiling in those games is enormous. It's just too high a hill to climb over an entire match for any truly bad player to overcome. I suppose the skill ceiling problem applies in fps games as well. The ability of players to twitch shoot someone almost instantly is just too much skill for a bad player to overcome.

Maybe a game like the COD games? Those games dont have a high skill ceiling and are only played competitively because of their sales numbers.

 

[LakeEarth]

Haitani hits people with it lol.

He tends to ultra through combos with tight links in case of drops, which I wouldn't call "random". Risky, yes, desperate, yes. It's something that should only work once, but I've seen high level play where he lands it 2-3 times a set.

 

[Venfayth]

This is only possible in fighting games. In any type of competition level fps like CS or Quake twitch pixel accurate shooting abilities would negate any type of unorthodox playstyle even if that playstyle were to trip the better player up. The close distance between the players in a FG probably helps in that regard. Even a bad player is close enough to his opponent to perhaps win if he can throw his timing off enough.

This would also never happen in an rts or moba. Never. The skill ceiling in those games is enormous. It's just too high a hill to climb over an entire match for any truly bad player to overcome. I suppose the skill ceiling problem applies in fps games as well. The ability of players to twitch shoot someone almost instantly is just too much skill for a bad player to overcome.

Maybe a game like the COD games? Those games dont have a high skill ceiling and are only played competitively because of their sales numbers.

I think you are being sloppy with the way you use the term "skill ceiling". The "skill" you seem to be referring to is mechanical fundamentals. This is only one aspect of the way games are played. The only reason I bring this up is because fighting games are not inherently easier or less skilled than other competitive games, but it seems like you are saying they are. They are different, for sure. Shorter, faster paced, but they also require a different type of "skill" and mindset. You need to be able to consistently time 1/60th of a second button presses.

Sure, this video is an example of that stuff not being necessary to win all the time, but as someone else mentioned this guy got eliminated immediately after this match.

 

[sephi22]

You know I just said 'Its okay. Life goes on' to Dawson a few hours ago and now this thread.
Damn.

 

[vg260]

Good for that Ryu player for showing up at a tourney and giving it a go.
Also, terrible sportsmanship from the loser if he just walked off without shaking his hand. That would be the most embarrassing part of that. Although, the commentators laughing and ragging on the Ryu player was poor as well. Again, he showed up at a tourney, so they should be welcoming people to do that. The good players will advance regardless.

 

[AZ Greg]

There are some things that can beat smartness and foresight? Awkwardness and stupidity can. The best swordsman in the world doesn't need to fear the second best swordsman in the world; no, the person for him to be afraid of is some ignorant antagonist who has never had a sword in his hand before; he doesn't do the thing he ought to do, and so the expert isn't prepared for him; he does the thing he ought not to do; and often it catches the expert out and ends him on the spot.

Mark Twain understands SF4

This is why you took 1 game against me at EVO during our FT10!

 

[Venfayth]

This is why you took 1 game against me at EVO during our FT10!

You still can't touch my Oni

 

[RockTurtle]

This is only possible in fighting games. In any type of competition level fps like CS or Quake twitch pixel accurate shooting abilities would negate any type of unorthodox playstyle even if that playstyle were to trip the better player up. The close distance between the players in a FG probably helps in that regard. Even a bad player is close enough to his opponent to perhaps win if he can throw his timing off enough.

This would also never happen in an rts or moba. Never. The skill ceiling in those games is enormous. It's just too high a hill to climb over an entire match for any truly bad player to overcome. I suppose the skill ceiling problem applies in fps games as well. The ability of players to twitch shoot someone almost instantly is just too much skill for a bad player to overcome.

I really hope you are talking about technical aspects like distance between opponents due to terrain and things like HP points over equal life bars and not subjective things like rts and fps require some magical skillset that makes it sound like an expert in rts/fps is somehow more able than an expert in fighting game.

 

[Yoshichan]

This is only possible in fighting games. In any type of competition level fps like CS or Quake twitch pixel accurate shooting abilities would negate any type of unorthodox playstyle even if that playstyle were to trip the better player up. The close distance between the players in a FG probably helps in that regard. Even a bad player is close enough to his opponent to perhaps win if he can throw his timing off enough.

This would also never happen in an rts or moba. Never. The skill ceiling in those games is enormous. It's just too high a hill to climb over an entire match for any truly bad player to overcome. I suppose the skill ceiling problem applies in fps games as well. The ability of players to twitch shoot someone almost instantly is just too much skill for a bad player to overcome.

Maybe a game like the COD games? Those games dont have a high skill ceiling and are only played competitively because of their sales numbers.

Agreed to 100%.

 

[Lost Fragment]

Haitani hits people with it lol.

The risk/reward is often worth it more with Makoto than most other characters though too. That's just the kind of character she is.

 

[MThanded]

YOLO DOJO

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Ive always hated the term "scrub" There are some players, who play on instinct. Im not talking about the DP mashers or the ones that have less execution than your grandma, im talking about the players that dont play with a gameplan, miss obvious mistakes by their opponent because they arent trying to read them, and are just playing " Ill do what feels right"

Ive beaten players far better than me with this method, because to them im being erratic or scrubby but to me Im playing fine, I know what im doing, im just not doing what you expect me to do.

I seem to pick up fighters faster than my semi pro friends for this exact same reason. Im not one to spend hours in training mode, i find my character and I just start trying shit.

 

[RaikuHebi]

I've always thought this is the same reason some of the good football (soccer) teams occasionally find it harder to play lesser teams, than teams at their own level. The style of football is so different to what they're used to week in, week out that they have to adjust to the change first before getting to grips with the game itself.

In fact it probably applies to a lot of things in life.

 

[Captain Star]

Those commentators are dicks. Way to shut people out of your community.

 

[stn]

Knew this thread would be filled with SF4. Fun game but it encourages and allows so many bad fighting game habits. People who only play SF4 learn how to hit-confirm and combo before they even learn footsies or proper AA'ing. Then again, I don't blame them because the game doesn't reward patience and fundamentals as much as it rewards constantly trying to apply pressure.

Still though, FSP played too aggressive. If you know the guy is mashing, bait and punish. I could've beaten Ghandi just by blocking his fireballs and AA'ing. And doing nothing on his wake-up.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Ive always hated the term "scrub" There are some players, who play instinct. Im not talking about the DP mashers or the ones that have less execution than your grandma, im talking about the players that dont play with a gameplan, miss obvious mistakes by their opponent because they arent trying to read them, and are just playing " Ill do what feels right"

Ive beaten, players far better than me with this method, because to them im being erratic or scrubby but to me Im playing fine, I know what im doing, im just not doing what you expect me to do.

I save scrub for players who are both bad and unwilling to learn, but it seems like a lot of people only read snippets of Sirlin's book and use it way more liberally indeed.

 

[BronsonLee]

Those commentators are dicks. Way to shut people out of your community.

This and Dawson's continued anger at losing irritate me more than actually losing.

He should be focused on being a better sport, not a better player.

 

[RangerBAD]

A win is a win. Nothing is cheap in a fighting game if you gets you the W.

 

[vvise]

LOL its that YOLO Ryu

i lol'd

 

[RockTurtle]

Can I say that some of the conversation is more than slightly insulting for everyone involved?

Ghandi might have been limited in his skillset and gameplay but he was still light years ahead of any random player. Try giving a controller to a cod player who does nothing but play cod or Madden and ask him him to do even half the stuff ghnadi did like a simple hadouken. Ghandi also went farther than most stream monsters by actually supporting his scene And attending a live event. The commentators were horrible in making fun of him and I hope it doesn't deter not just ghandi but other players from attending. Not everyone is Saigon or jwong or chrisg. If commentators are going to put you on the spot like that why even attend.

 

[ScOULaris]

Can I say that some of the conversation is more than slightly insulting for everyone involved?

Ghandi might have been limited in his skillset and gameplay but he was still light years ahead of any random player. Try giving a controller to a cod player who does nothing but play cod or Madden and ask him him to do even half the stuff ghnadi did like a simple hadouken. Ghandi also went farther than most stream monsters by actually supporting his scene And attending a live event. The commentators were horrible in making fun of him and I hope it doesn't deter not just ghandi but other players from attending. Not everyone is Saigon or jwong or chrisg. If commentators are going to put you on the spot like that why even attend.

I don't know. I'm sure the commentators could have handled it better, but I don't think that they were necessarily trashing Ghandi. They were more just laughing on reaction to FSP's failure to capitalize on such simple, punishable tactics. Ghandi just looked happy to be there, haha. Livin' that YOLO lifestyle inside the game and out.

I'd be willing to bet that if Ghandi continued to attend tournaments, he'd be the underdog favorite everywhere he went.

 

[Alucrid]

I don't know. I'm sure the commentators could have handled it better, but I don't think that they were necessarily trashing Ghandi. They were more just laughing on reaction to FSP's failure to capitalize on such simple, punishable tactics. Ghandi just looked happy to be there, haha. Livin' that YOLO lifestyle inside the game and out.

The commentators even said they weren't laughing at the players but the situation.

 

[Osu 16 Bit]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BrF3G3TKjP0&desktop_uri=/watch?v=BrF3G3TKjP0

Here's an infamous Mortal Kombat set were the shit tier Sheeva overcomes a 3-7 if not worse matchup against Kabal, undoubtably the best in the game. It's not exactly the same, Jeremiah was a known tournament player but he wins with basically only jump ins, a duck jab and the dumbass teleport stomp. Kabal has some of the best anti-air and counter poking in the game. A classic.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Can I say that some of the conversation is more than slightly insulting for everyone involved?

Ghandi might have been limited in his skillset and gameplay but he was still light years ahead of any random player. Try giving a controller to a cod player who does nothing but play cod or Madden and ask him him to do even half the stuff ghnadi did like a simple hadouken. Ghandi also went farther than most stream monsters by actually supporting his scene And attending a live event. The commentators were horrible in making fun of him and I hope it doesn't deter not just ghandi but other players from attending. Not everyone is Saigon or jwong or chrisg. If commentators are going to put you on the spot like that why even attend.

nofunallowed.jpg

Not sure how you can watch that match and not laugh.

Ghandi looks like he completely understands the situation.

 

[LegoArmo]

I could never hope to be as good as Ghandi and that makes me sad.

 

[kasane]

Jokes on you guys. That is the cheese strat

 

[blitzcloud]

This is only possible in fighting games. In any type of competition level fps like CS or Quake twitch pixel accurate shooting abilities would negate any type of unorthodox playstyle even if that playstyle were to trip the better player up.

CS-> getting him from behind.

Unless you only count a 1 on 1 situation with no cover or objective.

 

[RockTurtle]

You can laugh (I did too) but not so mean spirited. I identify with ghandi(just ask anyone in fgc-gaf and they will let you know aabout my own skills QQ)

I don't call us scrubs. We are technical-skill challenged

 

[Lost Fragment]

This is only possible in fighting games. In any type of competition level fps like CS or Quake twitch pixel accurate shooting abilities would negate any type of unorthodox playstyle even if that playstyle were to trip the better player up. The close distance between the players in a FG probably helps in that regard. Even a bad player is close enough to his opponent to perhaps win if he can throw his timing off enough.

This would also never happen in an rts or moba. Never. The skill ceiling in those games is enormous. It's just too high a hill to climb over an entire match for any truly bad player to overcome. I suppose the skill ceiling problem applies in fps games as well. The ability of players to twitch shoot someone almost instantly is just too much skill for a bad player to overcome.

Maybe a game like the COD games? Those games dont have a high skill ceiling and are only played competitively because of their sales numbers.

Oh, get the fuck out of here with this. People in here are acting like FSP is some well-known top player or some shit. He's just a random online monster.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

The commentators even said they weren't laughing at the players but the situation.

.

Shit was better when nothing was streamed. People in attendance knew what was going on and there was no need to take whatever assumptions viewers would make into account.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I save scrub for players who are both bad and unwilling to learn, but it seems like a lot of people only read snippets of Sirlin's book and use it way more liberally indeed.

Yeah after watching the match, I dont think im nearly as bad a player, and im constantly learning each match.

That said, I play unordodox and I get my ass handed to me for it. At times though when I get in my zone, I fuck with people way better than me just because im not doing what they expect.

 

[ScOULaris]

Oh, get the fuck out of here with this. People in here are acting like FSP is some well-known top player or some shit. He's just a random online monster.

Yeah, let's not get it twisted. This would NEVER EVER EVER have happened to a top player. Not even close.

 

[FStop7]

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

Playing unorthodox doesn't sound like a scrub to me.

 

[Yoshichan]

Those commentators are dicks. Way to shut people out of your community.

FGC

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Ryu played good. Annoying but good. Knew his opponent's moves and countered them very nicely.

Nothing wrong with an annoying one trick pony that let you push your buttons.

 

[kick51]

damn, egos bleeding out everywhere lol

 

[Nocturno999]

FSP rarely blocked despite never being thrown and missed endless opportunities to punish random Ryu
because he was too busy doing tantrums in front of the camera.

He basically just had to relax and block the entire match.

 

[theprodigy]

Apparently there is a really bad SSBB tournament final from 2008...no idea where to find it, though...

that was with items, and was also shortly after release
also, it's Brawl

 

[SeventhSon]

It sounds like FSP plays with artificial rules and limits on how the game is supposed to be played and couldn't handle an opponent who didn't abide by those self-made rules.

 

[Poltergust]

that was with items, and was also shortly after release
also, it's Brawl

EVO?

 

[MisterHero]

Ryu played good. Annoying but good. Knew his opponent's moves and countered them very nicely.

Nothing wrong with an annoying one trick pony that let you push your buttons.

I thought he was alright but Dan came back with the same tactics.

go dan go

 

[sibarraz]

I found funny that ghandi face is like "I think that I entered the wrong tournament"

 

[ScOULaris]

Ryu played good. Annoying but good. Knew his opponent's moves and countered them very nicely.

Nothing wrong with an annoying one trick pony that let you push your buttons.

Nah, come on man. He was not good at all. He was throwing out sweeps, uppercuts, EX Tatsu's, ultras, and fireballs almost completely at random. Point-blank range sweeps, for crying out loud! FSP was just mindfucked and failed to punish Ghandi's beginner mistakes.

Ghandi won. That means he played better than FSP. That doesn't mean he's good, however.

 

[Uthred]

Those commentators are dicks. Way to shut people out of your community.

Thats how the fighting game "community" works donchaknow, this thread is redolent of the pointless elitism that permeates it

 

[KHlover]

that was with items, and was also shortly after release
also, it's Brawl

I know. Do you know where to find the vid?

 

[Ludist210]

So yeah, I'm going to spend the next few months rinsing the game so I can secure a more solid foundation for the next major I head to. Just because I choked hard at this event doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying.

Good for you. While you're learning the game, learn a little humility. Leaving without even acknowledging the guy or shaking his hand seemed a little jerk-faceish.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Thats how the fighting game "community" works donchaknow, this thread is redolent of the pointless elitism that permeates it

wut

redolent? I've never heard that word until I came to NeoGAF

It's actually a word lol. But if anything this thread is the opposite, people love their underdog stories way too much.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

redolent? I've never heard that word until I came to NeoGAF

 

[SUPARSTARX]

Why so much fuss over a scrubby casual match??

 

[voodoopanda]

Haha I remember a while ago, I was playing SSF4 online with a buddy of mine and another guy. I'm okay at SF, I wouldn't say I was good but I basically know how to play. I was up against this other guy, playing Chun-Li, who was decent, probably better than me. We had a good match, and he beat me. We both played SF normally, neither of us were near pro but we were okay.

Then my friend, playing Cammy, went up against him. My friend just button mashes and doesn't really know how to play. He's a lot like that Ryu, a lot of jumping, tons of random cannon spikes. Of course, he beats the Chun-Li that beat me. Dude would never let me hear the end of it, as that proved he was forever better at SF4 than me.

It actually is surprisingly tough to play against a player like that if you're used to playing normally for a long time. When I played vs my friend I lost a few matches because of it. SF is all about using safe moves to feel a player out and never using unsafe moves unless you're sure they'll hit. All about reactions and watching your opponent and mind games. That all goes out the window, as a random unsafe shoryuken beats a safe jab if they both come out at the same time. You have to completely change how you play, as being aggressive at all and throwing out any attack, even the fastest jab, becomes a game of chance and luck. Once I adapted, I won 99% of the time just blocking and punishing and doing nothing else. But it can be really hard forcing yourself to change your entire playstyle at the drop of a hat when you're suddenly facing a player like that.