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[Effect]

Wii Fans: You can make games with lower development costs and make money!

Wii Fans: But you have to spend millions on tv advertising!

The lower development cost was always meant in relation to HD games on the 360 and PS3. It didn't mean lower development cost then games that appeared on the PS2, Cube, and Xbox. Don't try and spin that crap. I can't stand when people try to act as if something else was meant by that.

Millions in advertising isn't needed. You don't need an add every single program but nothing at all isn't the answer clearly.

 

[neoanarch]

By mature I'm sure he means they'll try and make a game with more appeal than a on rails shooter spinoff title to a sub million selling game.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

lots of people in this thread seem to know better than the guy who both does this for a living and has the market research knowledge and numbers to back it up. Go figure.

 

[RurouniZel]

Good. Now you can start trying to make GOOD Wii games instead.

 

[Nirolak]

By mature I'm sure he means they'll try and make a game with more appeal than a on rails shooter spinoff title to a sub million selling game.

Dead Space sold 1.5 million copies.

 

[schuelma]

lots of people in this thread seem to know better than the guy who both does this for a living and has the market research knowledge and numbers to back it up. Go figure.

Really trying to stay out of this I swear..but the notion that people in this industry, especially third parties, especially Sega for Christ sakes, always get it right is equally as laughable.

 

[wolfmat]

There are mature games other than Silent Hill: Shattered Memories on the Wii?

Spoiler

Okay, MAYBE I'd label Dead Space: Extraction as !"MATURE"!

 

[neoanarch]

Dead Space sold 1.5 million copies.

shipped. The truth is probably in the middle.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Really trying to stay out of this I swear..but the notion that people in this industry, especially third parties, especially Sega for Christ sakes, always get it right is equally as laughable.

I didn't imply that?

 

[schuelma]

I didn't imply that?

You didn't imply that people in the games industry are essentially above criticism because they know more than us?

 

[Jaded Alyx]

SEGA: Our mature Wii games did ok. Not great, but pretty ok. But Dead Space was a bomb, so that's it for us.

Hmm....

 

[NinjaFromTheFuture]

lots of people in this thread seem to know better than the guy who both does this for a living and has the market research knowledge and numbers to back it up. Go figure.

Given the circumstances, I can't tell if this was intended to be sarcastic or serious. In any other situation it'd very clearly be sarcasm.

On a related note, looks like I STILL won't be getting a Wii until Dragon Quest X... Whenever the fuck that comes out.

 

[EDarkness]

Really trying to stay out of this I swear..but the notion that people in this industry, especially third parties, especially Sega for Christ sakes, always get it right is equally as laughable.

Heh, heh. I was just about to post this very thing. If these guys had all the answers, then there wouldn't be so many studio closings and such.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

You guys realizing he's not being straightforward, right?

He knows Dead Space was not a good litmus test, but he doesn't want to say "Our games failed, we had high expectations, and we can't totally explain why, so we're withdrawing." That's an excellent way to talk yourself out of your current job or a future one. Admitting you don't know why something happened when your job is to know the markets is admitting you probably shouldn't come to work the next day.

He can point to Dead Space and say "EA's big! They tried, they failed, it's not just us, it's a pattern." And he doesn't look entirely unreasonable for saying it.

Where he went off the rails (heh) is trying to say EA failed despite advertising. That's where he became fairly obvious he knows what he's saying isn't true.

 

[Owzers]

The lower development cost was always meant in relation to HD games on the 360 and PS3. It didn't mean lower development cost then games that appeared on the PS2, Cube, and Xbox. Don't try and spin that crap. I can't stand when people try to act as if something else was meant by that.

Millions in advertising isn't needed. You don't need an add every single program but nothing at all isn't the answer clearly.

Where the heck did i say Wii development costs were LESS than last-gen games? Nowhere.

 

[DMeisterJ]

Wii Fans: You can make games with lower development costs and make money!

Wii Fans: But you have to spend millions on tv advertising!

It's be funnier if it wasn't true! :lol.

 

[obonicus]

Really trying to stay out of this I swear..but the notion that people in this industry, especially third parties, especially Sega for Christ sakes, always get it right is equally as laughable.

We don't even know what a game's budget is. We don't know how to breakdown the MSRP of a game. That's how ignorant we are of the whole process. Outside of when it's blatantly obvious, we have no idea when/if a game makes money.

Which is to say nothing of how a lot of the most vociferous comments come from people who'd have trouble balancing their checkbooks.

So maybe SEGA doesn't know how things should be done, but we're not any closer.

 

[wolfmat]

Where he went off the rails (heh) is trying to say EA failed despite advertising. That's where he became fairly obvious he knows what he's saying isn't true.

Huh? They advertised and failed. How's he wrong there?

 

[RurouniZel]

You guys realizing he's not being straightforward, right?

He knows Dead Space was not a good litmus test, but he doesn't want to say "Our games failed, we had high expectations, and we can't totally explain why, so we're withdrawing." That's an excellent way to talk yourself out of your current job or a future one. Admitting you don't know why something happened when your job is to know the markets is admitting you probably shouldn't come to work the next day.

He can point to Dead Space and say "EA's big! They tried, they failed, it's not just us, it's a pattern." And he doesn't look entirely unreasonable for saying it.

Where he went off the rails (heh) is trying to say EA failed despite advertising. That's where he became fairly obvious he knows what he's saying isn't true.

Essentially this.

It still amazes me that developers can't seem to "figure out the Wii". Um... how about... let people know you're game is out there. That just might help. Also, honest entries in a series helps, not spin-offs or "test" games.

Capcom got it right once. They put Monster Hunter 3 on the Wii. They advertised the shit out of the game in Japan. And whadda ya know? Sales. Lots of 'em.

Funny how that works.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

We don't even know what a game's budget is. That's how ignorant we are of the whole process. Outside of when it's blatantly obvious, we have no idea when/if a game makes money.

Which is to say nothing of how a lot of the most vociferous comments come from people who'd have trouble balancing their checkbooks.

So maybe SEGA doesn't know how things should be done, but we're not any closer.

By this logic, isn't Sega in a nonviable position to comment on EA's failure?

 

[Y2Kev]

You guys realizing he's not being straightforward, right?

He knows Dead Space was not a good litmus test, but he doesn't want to say "Our games failed, we had high expectations, and we can't totally explain why, so we're withdrawing." That's an excellent way to talk yourself out of your current job or a future one. Admitting you don't know why something happened when your job is to know the markets is admitting you probably shouldn't come to work the next day.

He can point to Dead Space and say "EA's big! They tried, they failed, it's not just us, it's a pattern." And he doesn't look entirely unreasonable for saying it.

Where he went off the rails (heh) is trying to say EA failed despite advertising. That's where he became fairly obvious he knows what he's saying isn't true.

But he's saying they didn't fail, they did "the numbers."

 

[wolfmat]

Capcom got it right once. They put Monster Hunter 3 on the Wii. They advertised the shit out of the game in Japan. And whadda ya know? Sales. Lots of 'em.

Funny how that works.

It's fuckin Monster Hunter. That always sells in JP, no matter what.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Huh? They advertised and failed. How's he wrong there?

Half of that

 

[Speevy]

When mature means something as ridiculously, garishly in your face as Madworld, they can count me out.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

You didn't imply that people in the games industry are essentially above criticism because they know more than us?

I implied that while playing backseat business man on an internet forum is fun, it's also pretty stupid. The guy isn't above criticism, disagree with his opinion all you want, but the general ignorance of some of the Wii audience around here is more than a little irritating.

 

[TTG]

see, this is why we can't have nice things.

PR controlled discussions on the video game industry are all we're ever going to get if douchebags looking for hits feel the urge to blow casual conversation out of proportion.

fuck that.

Exactly. Someone actually took the time to transcribe a part of a podcast and make one of those shitty flame bait articles out of it? Way to go.

 

[RurouniZel]

It's fuckin Monster Hunter. That always sells in JP, no matter what.

But what if they hadn't advertised that it was out, and on the Wii? What if it had been Monster Hunter and his Mii friends go fishing? Do you honestly think that would have sold as much as it did by virtue of being Monster Hunter?

That's like expecting Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo Tales to sell as much as Final Fantasy XIII by virute of it's Final Fantasy name.

The problem is (in my eyes) is that these companies are trying to make games for "the Wii gamer" instead of making games that their audience would play. They're over thinking this stuff. They guys know "what's cool" and they're just not making those games on the Wii.

Yep

 

[EDarkness]

We don't even know what a game's budget is. We don't know how to breakdown the MSRP of a game. That's how ignorant we are of the whole process. Outside of when it's blatantly obvious, we have no idea when/if a game makes money.

Which is to say nothing of how a lot of the most vociferous comments come from people who'd have trouble balancing their checkbooks.

So maybe SEGA doesn't know how things should be done, but we're not any closer.

The problem is (in my eyes) is that these companies are trying to make games for "the Wii gamer" instead of making games that their audience would play. They're over thinking this stuff. They guys know "what's cool" and they're just not making those games on the Wii.

 

[schuelma]

I implied that while playing backseat business man on an internet forum is fun, it's also pretty stupid. The guy isn't above criticism, disagree with his opinion all you want, but the general ignorance of some of the Wii audience around here is more than a little irritating.

Indeed, ignorance is very irritating.

 

[Owzers]

Essentially this.

It still amazes me that developers can't seem to "figure out the Wii". Um... how about... let people know you're game is out there. That just might help. Also, honest entries in a series helps, not spin-offs or "test" games.

Capcom got it right once. They put Monster Hunter 3 on the Wii. They advertised the shit out of the game in Japan. And whadda ya know? Sales. Lots of 'em.

Funny how that works.

This is my general thinking when it comes to Wii.

What people? The core gamers who own a Wii for Nintendo exclusives and the random gem a third party puts out while mostly playing on 360, PS3, or PC? Or the casual gamers who own a Wii for Nintendo party games and fitness games and doesn't give a crap about whatever a "Dead Space Shooty" game is.

 

[Dr. Muganda]

Another great decision from the people that brought you the finacial failures of saturn and dreamcast - everyone applause please.

 

[wolfmat]

But what if they hadn't advertised that it was out, and on the Wii? What if it had been Monster Hunter and his Mii friends go fishing? Do you honestly think that would have sold as much as it did by virtue of being Monster Hunter?

Sure. It's Monster Hunter, it's JP, it's on the Wii. That is a no-brainer if I ever saw one.

It's like, I dunno, ArmA 2 in PL or MSFS X in Germany. Autosales.

 

[trinest]

What are sega's successful wii titles, outside of sonic? How did monkey ball do?

The next Monkey Ball Step and Roll looks awesome so it must of sold well.

What the Wii is is hard to explain, and what it needs is obvious but still not clear. The fact is its always changing and its not a static market place with a clear direction like the PS3 or Xbox.

 

[rollingstart]

But what if they hadn't advertised that it was out, and on the Wii? What if it had been Monster Hunter and his Mii friends go fishing? Do you honestly think that would have sold as much as it did by virtue of being Monster Hunter?

Monster Hunter sold tons on the PSP--PSP--PEE-ESS-PEE

 

[JWong]

Good. Now you can start trying to make GOOD Wii games instead.

They did make good Wii games.

 

[RurouniZel]

Sure. It's Monster Hunter, it's JP, it's on the Wii. That is a no-brainer if I ever saw one.

It's like, I dunno, ArmA 2 in PL or MSFS X in Germany. Autosales.

Yeah, because Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers sold gangbust- oh wait... no no that didn't happen.

Monster Hunter 3 wasn't a Wii spinoff of the main series, it was the next legitimate entry in the series. And they advertised it like crazy, the same way that FFXIII and Dragon Quest IX were advertised like crazy as well.

If you think FFCC: TCB got anywhere near the advertising budget or awareness that FFXIII did all I can say is :lol

 

[Grecco]

That dse comment blows my mind because of it's stupidity

 

[ZZMitch]

Well fuck, House of the Dead Overkill is awesome. This saddens me.

 

[Nirolak]

Essentially this.

It still amazes me that developers can't seem to "figure out the Wii". Um... how about... let people know you're game is out there. That just might help. Also, honest entries in a series helps, not spin-offs or "test" games.

Capcom got it right once. They put Monster Hunter 3 on the Wii. They advertised the shit out of the game in Japan. And whadda ya know? Sales. Lots of 'em.

Funny how that works.

Tales of Graces is a good counterpoint to this.

The game is highly rated, and Nintendo even helped with bundling and advertising, yet it did quite bad.

 

[scitek]

lots of people in this thread seem to know better than the guy who both does this for a living and has the market research knowledge and numbers to back it up. Go figure.

yeah, the sales obviously show that the people with that data are doing something right

 

[wolfmat]

Yeah, because Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers sold gangbust- oh wait... no no that didn't happen.

It sold like 30,000 on its release day. That is leaps and bounds beyond DS:E.

Edit: Sorry, 20,000

 

[Kagari]

Tales of Graces is a good counterpoint to this.

The game is highly rated, and Nintendo even helped with bundling and advertising, yet it did quite bad.

How well did Graces end up doing?

 

[RurouniZel]

Tales of Graces is a good counterpoint to this.

The game is highly rated, and Nintendo even helped with bundling and advertising, yet it did quite bad.

Very true, but as I also mentioned the week that came out that Graces was the victim of

1) A series that's sadly on a general decline
2) A series spread out across so many systems the core audiance doesn't know where the fuck to go for their Tales of fix
3) HORRIBLY timed release (a week after NSMBWii and a week before FFXIII? Really?)

Monster Hunter 3 was released around the same time as Dragon Quest IX, but it was a few weeks after, and the MH series isn't spread nearly as thin as Tales of.

Though I'll grant you they did advertise it.

It sold like 30,000 on its release day. That is leaps and bounds beyond DS:E.

Edit: Sorry, 20,000

You realize that's not saying much? And Dead Space isn't some long running series that's been around since the Famicom days. It's from, a year or so ago?

 

[Nirolak]

How well did Graces end up doing?

Well, it looks like it's not going to even outsell the terrible Tales of Symphonia spin-off, much less get anywhere near the first week sales for the PS3 port of Vesperia. The holiday sales also didn't seem to keep it in the top 30 beyond two weeks, and that's after a weak opening and second week.

Schuelma could probably help the most with the assessment though as I think he had a full chart of how they were doing relative to each other, unless that was Josh.

 

[boiled goose]

uhh...

weird how he says that DSE was the litmus test....

especially when he says that the games they put out are doing alright and will at least hit their targets... :S

 

[Skenzin]

The Wii software market most closely parallels the Atari 2600 market in so many ways.

 

[schuelma]

And now we're into Media Create territory. Goodie.

 

[obonicus]

By this logic, isn't Sega in a nonviable position to comment on EA's failure?

This guy's not SEGA, though, he's Constantine Hantzopoulos. If he's guessing, sure, maybe he should stop. But people talk; there's a lot of chinese whispers going on but they still have a ton more information than they'd ever share with us.

 

[GWX]

HotD games sell well. They are reference when it comes to lightgun shooters.

Dead Space is a newer franchise, that became (kinda) popular thanks to its gameplay and atmosphere, that excels every game in the genre so far this gen. Spin-off from that franchise with a more limited proposal surely isn't going to sell.

So, the example used was dumb, imo. Still kinda true, though.

 

[wsippel]

It's fuckin Monster Hunter. That always sells in JP, no matter what.

That's pretty much the point I'd say. It's a big title, serious effort, and the marketing budget you'd expect from a AAA game. If by "no matter what" you mean it would have sold the same without marketing, you're wrong. Modern Warfare 2 wouldn't have pulled the numbers it did if it weren't for one of the biggest marketing campaigns in the history of gaming, either. Marketing has nothing to do with the platform. If you want decent sales, you'll need a decent marketing budget. Or a whole lot of luck.