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[Cerebral Assassin]

Western Direction != OMG FPS 24/7, guys. Settle down.

Haven't the two most recent departures ended up at 343i(aka the Halo Studio) & id?

 

[JasonUresti]

While that might be true, I also believe that SPD has some of the most capable guys in the industry. I do understand developers wanting creative freedom, and I would want it too, but I actually don't even think SPD prevents that. Quite a few of the titles they supervise are too innovative for that. But they're paid to nitpick, and that's what many "creative" guys can't stomach, mostly because they're full of themselves. Perfectly understandable, I'm no different.

From what I gather, SPD is basically the same as half of NeoGAF. No matter how great something is, someone will find something to nitpick. We usually discover those issues after the deed is done and the game is released. The guys at SPD are paid to find them during development. As frustrating as that might be for developers, it's actually a very good concept. Unbiased outside opinions from competent and knowledgeable guys are worth a lot.

The problem is that they aren't just offering helpful criticism, their words and opinions are taken as law, and can't be ignored.

Just like gaf, you've got people their whose own personal tastes and bias get in the way, and their will be game concepts/mechanics that they will shit on and veto, no matter how successful they might be at finding an audience.

For the those Nintendo Hype Men saying Nintendo just must have been right to cancel Retro's idea; Nintedo approved Spirit Tracks and Wii Music. Conversely, way back when, had Bungie been working for Nintendo like Retro, Nintendo would have cancelled Halo.

 

[DragonKnight]

Metroid Prime is the greatest game ever created. That is all

Edit: Another prime example of nintendo really holding their own studios back. Yeah the games are great but they could also be something far greater

 

[Poimandres]

Because they, like most people in any creative industry, had the itch to create something for themselves. Metroid and Donkey Kong are great, but still limits to working on an existing IP within the bondaries set by the publisher.

They wanted more freedom, so they went where they needed to go to get it.

I agree with this.

Congratualtions to id on picking up this tallent!

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Man all this talk about Metroid has me wanting to rebuy a cube and play 1&2 again.

 

[JacksUsername]

Great catch for id - if they need anything for their games right now, it's some unique design ideas. They have the tech down for sure, but some some great direction and design should bring their games back to top tier status. Wish all involved the best.

 

[Rocket Punch]

Silicon Knights
From Eternal Darkness to Too Human.

Rare
From many successful and critically acclaimed games to Kinect Sports.

Factor 5
From Rogue Squadron to... nothing.

Armature
In the desert for God knows how long.

There's a trend people.

Nintendo acts as a supervisor and we all know Retro had the chance to create original IPs. The result? Twisted Metal and Madden.

Miyasus had to step in and save the whole company with his Metroid Prime concept.

I respect Retro Studios as programmers, but they can't create shit, and that's why they will stick to classic Nintendo IPs.

OH SNAP! lol

 

[Vilam]

Good luck working on generic games.

This nicely sums up what so many don't understand. People in the game industry want to work on games and projects that interest them. You don't go into an industry with lower pay and more work than comparable positions elsewhere unless it's something you're passionate about. Typically that means making the type of game you'd want to play.

So while yeah, you may enjoy Nintendo's happy go lucky atmosphere, blue ocean strategies, and games that appeal to everyone... it isn't what a lot of western devs want to work on, period.

 

[_Alkaline_]

Prime 1 is one of my favorite games ever. I just want Retro to make one more game as incredible as that. The odds just seem to be getting lower though.

They did, it's called Metroid Prime 2.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

They did, it's called Metroid Prime 2.

But MP2 is better.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Why is this made to be such a big deal? Western Developers constantly move about. If this wasnt a Nintendo owned entity, would we even care?

The difference here is that Nintendo is driving them away.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Are people really citing the fiasco when Retro FIRST opened, over 10 years ago, under a completely different management (the dysfunctional Jeff Spangenburg, who was dispatched by Nintendo and soon after things were turned around). Really? RavenBlade and Car Combat, games that haven't existed in over a decade, are somehow indicative of what THIS Retro would do if given a little creative freedom?

 

[Boss Doggie]

The upcoming Mario Kart 3DS.

...

Are people ignoring certain posts that they somehow miss them?

 

[faridmon]

Going from games like metroid prime to shovelware like mario kart is probably rough.

Good for them, id say. I hope they get better appreciation else where.

GTFO!

since when was Mario kart a shovelware?

 

[AceBandage]

...

Are people ignoring certain posts that they somehow miss them?

Anything to make Nintendo look bad...

 

[_Alkaline_]

But MP2 is better.

I like you.

 

[SykoTech]

I decided to check who was still at Retro since Metroid Prime 1.

http://www.abload.de/img/retrofinal7ul3.png

Profound Sadness.

They did, it's called Metroid Prime 2.

That was the closest they managed to come, but the Dark World killed it's chances.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Are people really citing the fiasco when Retro FIRST opened, over 10 years ago, under a completely different management (the dysfunctional Jeff Spangenburg, who was dispatched by Nintendo and soon after things were turned around). Really? RavenBlade and Car Combat, games that haven't existed in over a decade, are somehow indicative of what THIS Retro would do if given a little creative freedom?

Of course. Nintendo ninjas would inspire Michael Bay's Transformers 3 into Blade Runner if given the chance.

Look at how everyone who who used to work with them ended up in a completely different situation and failed, I mean, except for the ones that didn't. No gaming company should ever hire ex-Nintendo employees because they are the largest group of witless hacks ever assembled, the entire lot of them mouth breathers only capable of producing puerile vapid shovelware, rescued from various hovels and street corners and whipped into something resembling a "team" by Nintendo's divine grace. Nintendo goes so far as to avoid hiring or even collaborating with people with actual talent, as pulling up the dredges of the programming world to their level improves their standing in the minds of gamers everywhere.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

The difference here is that Nintendo is driving them away.

We dont know that for certain with this group. They could have simply gotten amazing offers elsewhere, which is the norm for western devs who like to move. They are as much a part of Nintendo as an EAD team. It shouldn't be expected that they get to make anything they want.

 

[Datschge]

Profound Sadness.

Is there even any bigger Western developer with noteworthy continuity staff wise? Staff fluctuation seem high by default in the west unless the developer's staff is the same that runs the whole thing instead some alien management.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

We dont know that for certain with this group. They could have simply gotten amazing offers elsewhere, which is the norm for western devs who like to move. They are as much a part of Nintendo as an EAD team. It shouldn't be expected that they get to make anything they want.

I would say they are as much a part of Nintendo as Nintendo of America. Working for EAD is another level. You are talking about 27 years and maybe two turnovers??? Maybe?

 

[The_Player]

Commander Keen reboot confirmed.

DO WANT

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

I would say they are as much a part of Nintendo as Nintendo of America. Working for EAD is another level. You are talking about 27 years and maybe two turnovers??? Maybe?

Does NOA have any say in development? Even all the partnerships like with next level games are done through NCL.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Does NOA have any say in development? Even all the partnerships like with next level games are done through NCL.

Well. I am not sure exactly. But one director from Nintendo SPD (Azusa Tajima) left Japan to work at Nintendo of America. Some new production type of unit. They basically produced the Mystery File games.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Best of luck to him, I hope he finds what he's looking for.

For the record I thought many of the boss battles in DKCR were pretty weak, but that's neither here nor there.

I think DKCR2 would have a lot of potential, the first is very basic and there's lots of room for expansion and polish.

Wait, did I miss where it was confirmed Retro did in fact work on a first person Zelda game? Did anything leak from that? Because that sounds like a pretty cool idea at first, but would seem like a lame thing to make a whole game around.

 

[Boney]

I like you.

he's a suck up

 

[Codeblue]

Metroid Prime is the greatest game ever created. That is all

Edit: Another prime example of nintendo really holding their own studios back. Yeah the games are great but they could also be something far greater

If Nintendo didn't interfere with Retro's stuff then they would probably go back to producing their pre-Nintendo output (Trash).

They're a super talented group of people, they just lack direction, and Nintendo provides that.

 

[Nessus]

Wait, did I miss where it was confirmed Retro did in fact work on a first person Zelda game? Did anything leak from that? Because that sounds like a pretty cool idea at first, but would seem like a lame thing to make a whole game around.

There was a Surfer Girl rumor that they were working on a Sheik spin off proof of concept before DKCR. IGN alluded to it too back when IGN had some connections at Retro.

It was never said if it was FPS.

 

[Gummb]

Nintendo S.P.D = Nintendo Space Patrol Delta

Making games worth gaming.

Retro Studios is by far the most interesting development studio I have had the pleasure to research solely because of its relationship with Nintendo. The fact that they have created a timeless trilogy for Metroid and a wonderful DK game despite tens of employees dropping is also incredible. To quote Retro's website: "Our team is composed of industry veterans and leaders with decades of experience creating compelling games for the global market."

If anyone could write a comprehensive history of Retro Studios, I would love it.

 

[TheUnknownForce]

The best part about working with Nintendo: working on Nintendo franchises
The worst part about working with Nintendo: working on Nintendo franchises

I think, in the semi-long term, Nintendo needs to make more internal western devs. I mean, if they are losing money thanks to the exchange rate because of high sales, they should be benefiting off of having reduced costs being developed in the US.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Nintendo is being headed by an alien dog?

 

[Buddha Beam]

Metroid Prime is the greatest game ever created. That is all

God Hand looks at Metroid Prime. Stares at it for a moment, then points. Shouts, "YOU'RE NOT ALEXANDER!"
And all is right with the world again.

They're a super talented group of people, they just lack direction, and Nintendo provides that.

Rare was basically the same way, I'd say.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

I like you.

But Quadraxis hates us, and that's all that matters.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Don't know why people are so surprised that Retro is filled with wannabe dudebro designers, it was pretty obvious after playing Metroid Prime 3.

I believe a lot of the dudebro decisions were from the amount of stupid people doing Halo vs. Metroid wars. Back during 2004-2007 there were a lot of people saying stupid things about making Metroid more dudebro. Along with Nintendo's more casual/expanded audience push, I'm sure that's why Retro made those kind of decisions.

 

[Gummb]

Nintendo is being headed by an alien dog?

EDIT -- According to Wiki: Despite days of constant fighting, Space Patrol Delta was defeated and every single Nintendo employee except for "Doggie" was wiped out. Despite the fall of Retro Studios, SPD survived in the form of other planetary branches and a new central Galaxy Command under Iwata.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Patrol_Delta

Conclusion: Iwata killed Retro.

Edit 2 -- Notice how Metroid Prime was released the year Iwata took control, and ever since, more and more employees keep leaving. D:

 

[snesfreak]

Going from games like metroid prime to shovelware like mario kart is probably rough.

Good for them, id say. I hope they get better appreciation else where.

Holy fuck, are you serious with this shit?
Mario Kart is NOT fucking shovelware.

 

[Catchpenny]

I feel there's a very large difference between losing some people and the image I made.

They could still end up being a good studio, certainly, but they're definitely not who they once were.

The counterpoint would be that Retro has already had a successful decade, which is more than the vast majority of developers ever have. Even those started up/funded by major publishers.

Nintendo's heavy-handed management of Retro may keep them from retaining talent as long as some other successful studios might, but I find it hard to believe that Retro would have been as successful without Nintendo's assistance, financial support, patience, and IPs.

 

[jj984jj]

Well it looks like Monster Games is the only exception to Nintendo's horrible western 3rd party developer relations right now, though I wonder how long that will last.

 

[_Alkaline_]

Why stress about people leaving Retro anyway? DKCR only came out last year and it was some of their best work yet.

I'll wait until they actually put out something in the vicinity of mediocre before I start getting concerned.

 

[Fou-Lu]

Hey Nintendo! I'm free and ready to take his place!

Since I'll probably never be able to work for EAD, since I've never heard of a non-japanese being hired for those teams, I'm aiming for Retro Studios.

 

[jj984jj]

Why stress about people leaving Retro anyway? DKCR only came out last year and it was some of their best work yet.

I'll wait until they actually put out something in the vicinity of mediocre before I start getting concerned.

Mike Wikan has been the from the very beginning and he was still there after those who walked out before DKCR, and now he's gone too? It's not like this is just anyone.

 

[jaundicejuice]

One thing to bare in mind is that even if you're working for a company you like on projects you enjoy with a great team, sometimes your career stagnates. You hit a glass ceiling within the company or you find yourself in a specific niche on a team right away. Going to another company may be the better, possibly only, answer to advancing your career and meeting whatever goals you've set for yourself. Also the other company might simply be making you a better offer. If you're working contract/fixed term, which a lot of the industry is, you're always on the hunt for that next opportunity. You have to be.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Wow, this really makes me sad to think of Retro's future and what it could have been had Nintendo let them do a new IP... The A-Team is pretty much disbanded at Retro now with Pacini and his guy's gone and now Kynan and Mike gone. I guess it's all eye's on Nintendo to see if they can put equivalent talent into those slots and produce the same great games.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Wow, this really makes me sad to think of Retro's future and what it could have been had Nintendo let them do a new IP... The A-Team is pretty much disbanded at Retro now with Pacini and his guy's gone and now Kynan and Mike gone. I guess it's all eye's on Nintendo to see if they can put equivalent talent into those slots and produce the same great games.

DKCR just released last year and was great.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

DKCR just released last year and was great.

It was my GOTY 2010, but even so I still think giving Retro the creative freedom they wanted would have resulted in maintaining the talent rather than losing it. And lose of senior design talent to the extent Retro has lost does come with a price after it happens enough times.

 

[ConradCervantes]

Holy fuck, are you serious with this shit?
Mario Kart is NOT fucking shovelware.

He's just trying to establish himself as an edgy poster who's above piddly Nintendo shit like Mario Kart. Pay him no mind.

 

[Nostalgia~4ever]

Why stress about people leaving Retro anyway? DKCR only came out last year and it was some of their best work yet.

I'll wait until they actually put out something in the vicinity of mediocre before I start getting concerned.

mp3 wasn't good compared to mp1+mp2.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

Ah I was wondering about this guy after the 343i story Shiggy never dissapoints.

Honestly though, Retro Studios is doomed. They lose like a ton of their best guys after every game ships.

Yeah, but they are hiring so it looks like they want new blood. Hell even NST seems to be starting up again as they have open positions across the board.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Whenever I hear these comments about retro being stifled I remember when retro had multiple games like raven blade on the go, and the gaming magazines were openly derisive about how they were dealing with their projects, then they were all cancelled to focus on what became metroid.

So not saying they're not talented, but "unleash the retro" I'm not sure is that great an idea.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Here's some food for thought and something I've been wondering since DKCR's release...who's idea do you guy's wager it was to force waggle into DKCR? Who do you think pushed the idea of no control options or CC support? I find it hard to believe looking at the Prime titles that was Retro's grand idea... If I had been a senior head there that alone would have irked me to see a near perfect control/game design be undermined by Nintendo's obsession with forcing motion into the game, and not allowing an option to turn it off. Just saying...

But here's an idea, if Nintendo is indeed having Retro do DKCR2, hire Team Meat (with a great salary and budget) to replace Wikan and Pearson. For a platformer, they'd be superior senior designers (controls and level design) to Wikan and Pearson. And also get Danny Baranowsky in there too for good measure, him and Yamamoto doing a joint OST would be the best OST of all-time imo.