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[V_Ben]

I decided to check who was still at Retro since Metroid Prime 1.

God, that looks like a hit list. Such an exodus.

 

[Nostalgia~4ever]

People leaves all the time. If people think that basically the same dudes been at retro since 2000 they're delusional.

The most famous of them all, zoid, left Retro after Prime 2 etc.

 

[Drkirby]

So Retro has different people then they did a Decade ago. I guess we will see if they can keep up the quality or not.

 

[Nirolak]

How does that compare to other studios?

Epic Games has approximately 1 voluntary departure per year: http://www.joystiq.com/2009/04/22/joystiq-interview-epics-michael-capps-responds-to-accusations/

 

[Shiggy]

God, that looks like a hit list. Such an exodus.

Most who are at Retro now, are there since MP2 from what I see.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

Worked on the enemies and bosses in DKCR? Honestly, that was the weakest portion of the game, IMO. Still, the lack of creative freedom is alarming.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I believe this is explicitly why Iwata said they don't buy studios.

They expect them to work like other parts of Nintendo, but cultural barriers prevent that from being ideal, so all the creative types leave.

 

[Nostalgia~4ever]

So Retro has different people then they did a Decade ago. I guess we will see if they can keep up the quality or not.

Of course. They even had different people after Prime 1. There was a story about it 3-4 years ago that lots of key people left Retro. Why do you think the quality went worse with Prime 3?

 

[wsippel]

So Retro has different people then they did a Decade ago. I guess we will see if they can keep up the quality or not.

After reading the "Iwata asks: Xenoblade", one of the main reasons for the high quality of Nintendo's titles is actually Nintendo SPD. They have much more control than most people would expect.

 

[Instro]

Epic Games has approximately 1 voluntary departure per year: http://www.joystiq.com/2009/04/22/joystiq-interview-epics-michael-capps-responds-to-accusations/

Also I meant to ask, how many of those people left immediately after MP1? Considering the studio was a disaster throughout development, it wouldn't surprise me if a large chunk of those people listed left soon after the game released.

I guess another view would be to see how many are still there since MP2.

 

[[Nintex]]

After reading the "Iwata asks: Xenoblade", one of the main reasons for the high quality of Nintendo's titles is actually Nintendo SPD. They have much more control than most people would expect.

That's also because Nintendo rarely rushes things. Even Bungie had to hurry up with games like Halo 2 and that goes for many other studios as well. Aonuma can reboot Zelda development like 3 times Square Enix style.

 

[Lunar15]

As someone else pointed out, this is really not unusual, especially for studios owned by a larger company. People move around a lot in game development. There's a couple with high retention (Valve comes to mind), but even they have turnover. Heck, some of the original Retro team came from Valve during the long period between Half Life and Half Life 2.

 

[Nirolak]

Also I meant to ask, how many of those people left immediately after MP1? Considering the studio was a disaster throughout development, it wouldn't surprise me if a large chunk of those people listed left soon after the game released.

I guess another view would be to see how many are still there since MP2.

A lot of them have credits through Metroid Prime 3, which is when Pacini and friends broke off the make Armature after their next project was canceled.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Silicon Knights
From Eternal Darkness to Too Human.

Rare
From many successful and critically acclaimed games to Kinect Sports.

Factor 5
From Rogue Squadron to... nothing.

Armature
In the desert for God knows how long.

There's a trend people.

Nintendo acts as a supervisor and we all know Retro had the chance to create original IPs. The result? Twisted Metal and Madden.

Miyasus had to step in and save the whole company with his Metroid Prime concept.

I respect Retro Studios as programmers, but they can't create shit, and that's why they will stick to classic Nintendo IPs.

as opposed to sterile ass Mario Kart?

 

[Nirolak]

Silicon Knights
From Eternal Darkness to Too Human.

Rare
From many successful and critically acclaimed games to Kinect Sports.

Factor 5
From Rogue Squadron to... nothing.

Armature
In the desert for God knows how long.

There's a trend people.

Nintendo acts as a supervisor and we all know Retro had the chance to create original IPs. The result? Twisted Metal and Madden.

Miyasus had to step in and save the whole company with his Metroid Prime concept.

I respect Retro Studios as programmers, but they can't create shit, and that's why they will stick to classic Nintendo IPs.

DMA Design
From Unirally to Grand Theft Auto 3.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

I'm surprised you people are so surprised. In which branch do you work?? It's normal today for every person who is interested a minimum in the career to move a lot. During one life, changing willingly job 5-10 times is perfectly normal. Especially high qualified people.

Eh, the time where people took a job and remained there forever are totally over!

 

[perryfarrell]

iD better hire some new artists too. Their stuff is so stale.

 

[LeleSocho]

Retro Studios is the new Rare... in every way

 

[AceBandage]

Retro Studios is the new Rare... in every way

How so?
Retro is still make awesome games. Can't say the same for Rare.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Silicon Knights
From Eternal Darkness to Too Human.

Rare
From many successful and critically acclaimed games to Kinect Sports.

Factor 5
From Rogue Squadron to... nothing.

Armature
In the desert for God knows how long.

There's a trend people.

Nintendo acts as a supervisor and we all know Retro had the chance to create original IPs. The result? Twisted Metal and Madden.

Miyasus had to step in and save the whole company with his Metroid Prime concept.

I respect Retro Studios as programmers, but they can't create shit, and that's why they will stick to classic Nintendo IPs.

Good to know that a game that is like Twisted Metal and Madden is uninspired because you personally do not like those kinds of games.

tldr; creativity is only possible if they're forced to make Mario and Metroid games.

 

[fernoca]

Yep. In fact, they also hire senior staff from other developers, like Naughty Dog. Was probably sick of doing more and more Uncharted or something for the rest of his life. Didn't see a thread about that, though. It's only interesting if Nintendo loses.

That too.
In the same Naughty Dog; Jason Rubin left in 2004, and they went and made and released Uncharted by 2007.

In the end, as long as the quality is there is no biggie. I mean, lets face it; as awesome as someone like Yuji Naka was in Sega, is not like he leaving Sega affected anything (Sonic was going downhill already with him there ...according to some XD), and neither opened the doors for him to make better games (Ivy the Kiwy...).

It's always disappointing seeing good people leave to others (tired of making the same games, more money, etc.); but at the same time part of the reason Metroid Prime was as awesome as it was, was because of Nintendo's iron-fist over them, if they continue working like that who knows. With Wii U and the whole HD visuals, camera/screen on controller and more online aspects, a new Metroid Prime from Retro is an obvoius fit (along Donkey Kong Returns 2; which sold way better than the first Prime game; so of course Nintendo is going to want more of that...and fast).

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

As said, the trouble at NST showed what happens if NCL mandates everything.

NST at their best was a B-tier studio, and even that is being kind. Their implosion was hardly a loss.

Nintendo's heavy hand with Retro has worked out remarkably different and a similar approach with North American 3rd party studios like Next Level and Monster has been extremely fruitful. If it works there, why would NST's continued inability be solely to blame on the same approach?

 

[SovanJedi]

This isn't really news, people move around all the time. I heard once (though I don't have an online source for it) that many of the dev team that worked on Super Mario 64 were so fatigued from working on that game they quit the company and never worked in the games industry again.

Now imagine if THAT was a thread today!

 

[Unconditional]

it jst depends on whether they have the talented people left to step up and fill that position. As long as they have that then they are fine.

 

[Shiggy]

Rare
From many successful and critically acclaimed games to Kinect Sports.

They had various other problems that already became evident when they were with Nintendo. Much of their failure was also due to Microsoft's constant strategy revisions...Rare didn't know what to produce because of that.

Factor 5
From Rogue Squadron to... nothing.

They worked with Nintendo on a project when they went bankrupt, their problem just was that they also worked on a Superman title for Brash...

So what do you think about NST which lost most of its members because of going from Project Hammer to Wii Crush?

NST at their best was a B-tier studio, and even that is being kind. Their implosion was hardly a loss.

Nintendo's heavy hand with Retro has worked out remarkably different and a similar approach with North American 3rd party studios like Next Level and Monster has been extremely fruitful. If it works there, why would NST's continued inability be solely to blame on the same approach?

That's your opinion. They really weren't that bad, 1080° Avalanche was seriously underrated.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

This isn't really news, people move around all the time. I heard once (though I don't have an online source for it) that many of the dev team that worked on Super Mario 64 were so fatigued from working on that game they quit the company and never worked in the games industry again.

Now imagine if THAT was a thread today!

Never heard of that. Sure working in this industry and especially for Nintendo Japan is not easy from what I heard.

 

[Nocturnowl]

How so?
Retro is still make awesome games. Can't say the same for Rare.

Don't you see? they've lost that one guy! it's all over now

 

[[Nintex]]

This isn't really news, people move around all the time. I heard once (though I don't have an online source for it) that many of the dev team that worked on Super Mario 64 were so fatigued from working on that game they quit the company and never worked in the games industry again.

Now imagine if THAT was a thread today!

That can't be true, because Koizumi, Miyamoto et all still work for Nintendo.

Just look them up yourself:
http://www.mobygames.com/game/n64/super-mario-64/credits

 

[wsippel]

That's also because Nintendo rarely rushes things. Even Bungie had to hurry up with games like Halo 2 and that goes for many other studios as well. Aonuma can reboot Zelda development like 3 times Square Enix style.

Even that point was made in the Xenoblade interview. The director didn't think he could finish the game on schedule and the team was burned out, so he had a meeting with the producer at SPD to tell him that they plan to cut content, and he basically told him to fuck off and just finish the game as planned - who cares if it takes another few months or years and another few million dollars? Don't half ass it! Want to develop a game the way you used to develop for decades? Sorry bro, you're now with us, and you develop games the way we develop games.

I was just as surprised that they have script editors at SPD. So yeah, Takahashi is a famous guy, and they hired another famous guy to co-write the script, and the editor at SPD told them that their script makes no fucking sense and that they'd have to change it - many, many times. And it was probably for the better.

I can see developers not liking that approach. Sure, you probably learn a lot, but you'll get very frustrated if you can't stomach it. But there's little doubt Nintendo does this for a reason, and the quality of their titles speaks volumes.

 

[Ezalc]

Going from games like metroid prime to shovelware like mario kart is probably rough.

Good for them, id say. I hope they get better appreciation else where.

Whoa whoa whoa what the fuck is this shit?

 

[Boney]

Was there ever any footage of Wii Crush? or screens?

or something other than the name?

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

NST at their best was a B-tier studio, and even that is being kind. Their implosion was hardly a loss.

Nintendo's heavy hand with Retro has worked out remarkably different and a similar approach with North American 3rd party studios like Next Level and Monster has been extremely fruitful. If it works there, why would NST's continued inability be solely to blame on the same approach?

When NST is developing Mario vs Donkey Kongs. They are quite productive. The problem was the second that Nintendo initially green lighted an original ip. The project was haulted and re-directed from a traditional core game to a more blue ocean wii play clone. The conversion was a disaster. They lost 3 members that I know of. The two crucial ones were Colin Reed (formerly of EAD) and Vivek Melvani (formerly of Electronic Arts).

They still have some talent. It all depends what Nintendo wants them to develop.

I was just as surprised that they have script editors at SPD. So yeah, Takahashi is a famous guy, and they hired another famous guy to co-write the script, and the editor at SPD told them that their script makes no fucking sense and that they'd have to change it - many, many times. And it was probably for the better.

I think its Yurie Hattori. An attractive female game planner for SPD Group No.2 of Nintendo. She actually worked on Fire Emblem as well which SPD produces and co-develops with Intelligent Systems.

 

[Instro]

A lot of them have credits through Metroid Prime 3, which is when Pacini and friends broke off the make Armature after their next project was canceled.

Ah ok, thanks for the info.

 

[Shiggy]

Was there ever any footage of Wii Crush? or screens?

or something other than the name?

I'll keep it at this:

Imagine a casual Project Hammer without Wii Motion Plus.

 

[daffy]

You wrote this up, OP? Very informative, thanks.

 

[LeleSocho]

Don't you see? they've lost that one guy! it's all over now

Yeah only one guy... yeah

 

[AceBandage]

Yeah only one guy... yeah

So, every studio that loses people are doomed, right?

 

[Somnid]

The creative freedom reason doesn't make sense to me; I could see better pay, environment, location etc though. 343 exists for no other reason than Halo, Halo is established and has a very strict bible, I don't see much in the way of being able to do what you want. Id maybe, but even including their unreleased games all they do is FPSs about mutants. Maybe they'll do something else but I don't see it happening any time soon. If anything Retro is awesome because like Nintendo's other teams they seem to have a broad range of talent to be able to go from Metroid Prime to Donkey Kong whereas the vast majority of devs tend to end up one-trick ponies. I really hope they didn't leave just because they thought they could make more FPSs as I would lose a lot of respect for that.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

That's your opinion. They really weren't that bad, 1080° Avalanche was seriously underrated.

Opinions aside, why did Nintendo's approach work with Retro/Next Level/Monster then, but suppossedly is the cause of NST's demise? Same approach, same strict direction, wildly different results? At what point do we go from failure to lead on NCL's end to failure to deliver on NST's end?

 

[wsippel]

I think its Yurie Hattori. An attractive female game planner for SPD Group No.2 of Nintendo. She actually worked on Fire Emblem as well which SPD produces and co-develops with Intelligent Systems.

Yep, she was the editor.

 

[Nirolak]

So, every studio that loses people are doomed, right?

I feel there's a very large difference between losing some people and the image I made.

They could still end up being a good studio, certainly, but they're definitely not who they once were.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Yeah only one guy... yeah

So you don't believe the rest of the staff can function without his guidance?

 

[Vice]

Retro was garbage without Nintendo and they'd be garbage without Nintendo, just like Rare.

Hasn't Retro only released Metroid and DKC games?

What does "the direction that other Western devs pursue" mean then? Even the rpgs are bro-ed up shooters now.

There are also Western games like also games like Assassins Creed, Bioshock, Red Dead, Mirrors Edge and Portal. Even games like LA Noire and Fable are extremely popular without being shoot-stab-fests.

 

[AceBandage]

I feel there's a very large difference between losing some people and the image I made.

They could still end up being a good studio, certainly, but they're definitely not who they once were.

So far, we've seen no indication that the people they lost have made the studio worse. By saying they are the "new Rare" implies that it'll be a straight downhill road for them, which is what I was getting at.
As long as they replace talent with talent (which they have been) then there's not a lot of need for concern.

 

[Nirolak]

So far, we've seen no indication that the people they lost have made the studio worse. By saying they are the "new Rare" implies that it'll be a straight downhill road for them, which is what I was getting at.
As long as they replace talent with talent (which they have been) then there's not a lot of need for concern.

The new Rare is actually pretty good at making very successful casual games. Kinect Sports has sold over 3 million copies.

It's not a bad comparison in that Retro has morphed from a successful shooter studio to a successful platformer studio.

 

[Hyuga]

I find it sad that they seem to want to follow all of the other western devs.

So instead of wanting to work with a great platforming franchise, a genre sorely lacking in this era of gaming, they want to leave and go work on FPS's?
Yeah, okay. I think Nintendo's in the right here.

I don't understand why they would have a problem working on DKCR. I can understand they'd want a new project after working on nothing but metroid for so long, but what's wrong with Donkey Kong?

..... wow! *speechless*

 

[[Nintex]]

However you slice it if two out of three senior designers leave(is Ivey still there?) it's a pretty big deal. Especially if Retro Studios is currently working on a Wii U project and perhaps aiming for launch.

 

[Boney]

I'll keep it at this:

Imagine a casual Project Hammer without Wii Motion Plus.

oh...

what a shame, even if HAMMER looked awful, this is a fate worse than death

 

[Kurtofan]

..... wow! *speechless*

Why?
More platformers, less FPSs is a good thing.

 

[fernoca]

However you slice it if two out of three senior designers leave(is Ivey still there?) it's a pretty big deal. Especially if Retro Studios is currently working on a Wii U project and perhaps aiming for launch.

At the same time, is not like they left today/right now. If we know this "now", they (under normal circumstances at least) notified Nintendo/Retro weeks ago; giving them enough time to make the needed adjustments (while continue working there). Probably put someone that has been there for a few years in said position.