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[Chiggs]

i just cant believe that out of everything there is to be angry in this thread

marrec and mumei found the term "cry rape"

to be the most objectionable thing

like that made them more angry than anything else

including the gross injustice

like how out of fucking whack can your priorities be

i am just baffled by your beliefs guys. just baffled.

just parroting on about rape culture, treating it as gospel... god what pointless, reductive, self-defeating rhetoric.

Well, it's just the nature of the topic; it's incendiary...no way around it. And it also invites extremists on both sides of the argument. If there is anything uplifting to be found about this story, it's that it manages to shed light on an issue that people don't want to discuss and that authorities want to bury. There's nothing pleasant about the topic of false rape allegations, which is why it needs to be discussed, analyzed and then acted on in civilized manner.

 

[kame-sennin]

i just cant believe that out of everything there is to be angry in this thread

marrec and mumei found the term "cry rape"

to be the most objectionable thing

like that made them more angry than anything else

including the gross injustice

like how out of fucking whack can your priorities be

i am just baffled by your beliefs guys. just baffled.

just parroting on about rape culture, treating it as gospel... god what pointless, reductive, self-defeating rhetoric.

Actually, I think mine was the first post that criticized the thread title:

I suppose I don't have to, but then threads like this would just be a big circle jerk of rape culture.

It's really disturbing how much hateful bile has been spewed. The thread title, "she cried rape" is horrifically shitty to begin with. But the reactions to the story make it seem like the majority of rape accusations are false when in reality, nothing could be further from the truth. This gem is a perfect example of the seething hatred for women some people have:

this is why I can't be a "white knight" for rape cases. This happens far too often.


Sorry, but it's worse to be accused of this falsely than to be raped and still have your freedom.

So, instead of talking about the flaws of the criminal justice system, about the ways in which it failed the young man in question, about the ways in which the girl could be coerced into making such an accusation, or about whether our culture shames women about promiscuous acts making the claim of rape preferable to the label of "slut", we have to have a meltdown about the apparent epidemic of false accusations made by "bitches" and "cunts".

The thread title is hostile towards women. The OP shitted up his own thread from the jump.

 

[Ducarmel]

His lawyer obviously had reason to believe that his innocence possibly would not stand up if they went to trial. Two problems here, regardless of the lawyer's competency: 1) he would have to prove his innocence in the first place, which goes against the most basic tenet of our justice system, and 2) despite the fact that he was actually innocent, there would not be enough evidence to prove his innocence, because the court would possibly accept her testimony as enough evidence to convict.

If she (or anyone accusing someone of rape) would be required to provide more proof than their own testimony, the idea that it's safer to take the plea bargain would be illogical, because a false accuser would have zero evidence other than their testimony. This goes back to the root of the problem, which is that the authorities can/do convict someone of a crime without what should be appropriate evidence.

according to the link below if you listen to the audio his first lawyer did screw him over, he did not do his job and check the crime scene that would of been enough to blow holes in her story. If the lawyer did his job he would of found no evidence of rape and the kidnapping claim would of not made any sense because the school was crowded with teachers and students who would of notice a black kid dragging a girl against her will.

http://www.scpr.org/programs/madele...ian-banks-long-beach-football-star-exonerated

 

[Chiggs]

according to the link below if you listen to the audio his first lawyer did screw him over, he did not do his job and check the crime scene that would of been enough to blow holes in her story.

http://www.scpr.org/programs/madele...ian-banks-long-beach-football-star-exonerated

Fucking terrible. Way to go, justice system!

 

[Mechazawa]

So has it been posted yet that there aren't any plans to charge Gibson?

I don't understand this legal system some times.

 

[dream]

The thread title is hostile towards women. The OP shitted up his own thread from the jump.

This is a pretty amazing assertion. The title doesn't use "cried rape" as some sort of universal truth. This particular woman DID cry rape. If anything is hostile towards women, it would be the implications of this particular woman's actions.

 

[cdyhybrid]

according to the link below if you listen to the audio his first lawyer did screw him over, he did not do his job and check the crime scene that would of been enough to blow holes in her story. If the lawyer did his job he would of found no evidence of rape and the kidnapping claim would of not made any sense because the school was crowded with teachers and students who would of notice a black kid dragging a girl against her will.

http://www.scpr.org/programs/madele...ian-banks-long-beach-football-star-exonerated

That's fucking awful. The lawyer needs to be held accountable as well in that case, he failed to do his job.

 

[Chiggs]

I don't understand this legal system some times.

Well, it's a pile of garbage that would rather let an issue like this fade away than risk shedding light on what is undeniably shitty behavior. The reason? It's too hot button and triggers far too much controversy.

It's conflict avoidance at its worst.

 

[kame-sennin]

And if one looks at the reality of rape in the United States - the rampant underreporting (e.g. 90,000 rapes in 2008; estimated 75,000 unreported rapes), the even lower likelihood that there will be an arrest (25% in 2008); this is precisely the sort of effect that rape culture is supposed to have. It makes it less likely that rapes will be reported and less likely that there will be an arrest in the first place. Given that the arrest rate alone is only 25%, even if the conviction rate were 100%, it would still mean that 3/4s of all rapes go unpunished. Do you think this makes it more or less likely that someone will rape? This isn't reliant on subtle connotations and mental effects. And once more, for emphasis: No one is saying that the term "cry rape" does this all on its lonesome. It's merely a small part of the Gordian knot, and we're actually giving it no more time than it deserves.

Quoting because far too many people are unaware.

You came in and said we were using it wrong. That's the difficult thing I am dealing with We were discussing this case, this thread. You're telling us 'cry rape' promotes rape culture, when right here, it is describing what happened. It's not loaded here. It doesn't endanger actual victims of rape. It is describing the actions of this woman in a thread about this woman.

The problem is that once a word has been stigmatized, you can not control who will be negatively impacted. You can only choose to use the word/phrase and increase its stigma, or challenge the word/phrase and the culture that birthed it.

according to the link below if you listen to the audio his first lawyer did screw him over, he did not do his job and check the crime scene that would of been enough to blow holes in her story. If the lawyer did his job he would of found no evidence of rape and the kidnapping claim would of not made any sense because the school was crowded with teachers and students who would of notice a black kid dragging a girl against her will.

http://www.scpr.org/programs/madele...ian-banks-long-beach-football-star-exonerated

Is there any information on how he got this attorney? Was it a public defender?

 

[KevinCow]

How about addressing the culture of rape in the first place? You're always for almost ANY crime going to have false reports or people that abuse the system, you're also going to have people that absolutely commit crimes but get away with them. But the best solution is to promote an atmosphere of respect for body integrity for all parties as well as mutual respect.

What the hell are you rambling on about, and how does this fix anything in the system?

Women have the power to send men to jail by falsely accusing them of rape if they want. Whether it happens very often or not is irrelevant, because it does happen occasionally, and it shouldn't. As much as misandrists like marrec would like to believe that all men are horrible and should be wiped off the planet, innocent men should not go to prison for a crime they didn't commit.

But you can't just assume the woman's lying and ignore her testimony. It's not like most other crimes, where you can find objective evidence. The woman's word is the strongest evidence, and taking that away would make it nearly impossible to convict actual rapists.

It's a catch 22. Either you make it easier for the rapists to get away, or you make it easier for women to abuse the system.

Prattling on about "rape culture" fixes exactly none of this.

 

[iamblades]

So has it been posted yet that there aren't any plans to charge Gibson?

I don't understand this legal system some times.

They can't because of the statute of limitations.

Basically anything that isn't a murder can't be prosecuted this long after the fact.

There is one possible exception, which is that officers of the court can be prosecuted if they presented a fraudulent case, so it is possible the prosecutor could be held liable to some degree, but not likely. More likely would be her lawyer in her civil case against the school, but even then, you can't prove he knew he was presenting fraudulent evidence.

 

[Salsa]

make her pay him the 1.5mil plus interest

the least she/the system could do is make sure this guy is set for life

 

[Ducarmel]

Is there any information on how he got this attorney? Was it a public defender?

I'm not sure, but the actions seem like something a public defender would do! answered below

Here is the full interview if you guys want to here it.

http://www.scpr.org/programs/patt-morrison/2012/05/24/26645/brian-banks-finally-exonerated/

http://media.scpr.org/audio/upload/2012/05/24/BRIAN_BANKS_EXONORATED.mp3

seems like cal justice system gives you 100 for everyday you are falsely incarcerated.

 

[Hartt951]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I can't think of anything more soul-sucking than serving time for a crime you know you didn't commit.

Sucks so bad.

Seriously, I cannot imagine going through that. Fuck that bitch. She deserves to be in prison for the rest of her life.

 

[Eric C]

Is there any information on how he got this attorney? Was it a public defender?

Seems like his mother payed for the attorney.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-rape-dismiss-20120525,0,3372200.story?page=1

His mother, Leomia Myers, believed him, and said she sold her condo and her car to pay for his defense.

"I knew I didn't raise my son to do something so horrendous," she said.

 

[Gaborn]

What the hell are you rambling on about, and how does this fix anything in the system?

Women have the power to send men to jail by falsely accusing them of rape if they want. Whether it happens very often or not is irrelevant, because it does happen occasionally, and it shouldn't. As much as misandrists like marrec would like to believe that all men are horrible and should be wiped off the planet, innocent men should not go to prison for a crime they didn't commit.

I didn't say they should be. Yes, false reporting is a problem, but it's been posted again and again that such false reporting is a small portion of the actual issue. It's like complaining about someone who abuses food stamps while walking past a soup kitchen. No one is saying that innocent men should be put in prison, and no one is saying it is not a problem. But the way you fix the problem of rape and even false rape is changing the way our culture views rape and women in general because that is the biggest issue.

But you can't just assume the woman's lying and ignore her testimony. It's not like most other crimes, where you can find objective evidence. The woman's word is the strongest evidence, and taking that away would make it nearly impossible to convict actual rapists.

It's a catch 22. Either you make it easier for the rapists to get away, or you make it easier for women to abuse the system.

Prattling on about "rape culture" fixes exactly none of this.

What I'm suggesting is not a panacea to stop all rapes (and false reporting of rapes) overnight. What I'm suggesting is that starting as soon as possible we need to do a better more intelligent and clearer job of socializing kids to respect women. To decouple alcohol and sex. To stop the sexualization of women in our culture. To socialize boys early on to be around girls and stop seeing them as the "other" or the "enemy" at a young age because I think in a lot of ways that carries over. You're right, I'm not giving you a quick fix or an easy answer because there ISN'T one. But I'm saying there IS a way to deal with it in the long term if society is willing.

 

[Chuckpebble]

I'd forgive her and move on. Shit, she coulda never recanted the accusation.

 

[Piecake]

I'd forgive her and move on. Shit, she coulda never recanted the accusation.

wha?

 

[Mumei]

prescriptive

Nope. Proscriptive. You actually have more of an argument for proscription (condemning as harmful) than you do for prescriptive. But when we were talking about the way that the word is used, we were being descriptive. When we were condemning you ("you" here meaning those who think that "cry rape" is perfectly copacetic), for using cry rape, that was being proscriptive.

And yes, I promise it is a word. You can look it up in a dictionary and everything.

and no, because i disagree with you. your world view is neither self evidently correct, nor is it infallible. not everything is accurately viewed through an academic, feminist lense. yet you ask us to accept it because you read some blogs or some shit, and we're insane bigots for disagreeing with you.

It might not be self-evidently correct - though when I learned about it, it certainly seemed self-evident - but "self-evidently correct" is not the standard I use. "Correct" is, even if "correct" is not necessarily the most intuitive answer.

i just cant believe that out of everything there is to be angry in this thread

marrec and mumei found the term "cry rape"

to be the most objectionable thing

like that made them more angry than anything else

including the gross injustice

like how out of fucking whack can your priorities be

i am just baffled by your beliefs guys. just baffled.

just parroting on about rape culture, treating it as gospel... god what pointless, reductive, self-defeating rhetoric.

Duki, if it makes you feel better:

The worst part about this story is the fact that a young man spent six years of his life in prison because of a false allegation of rape. The second-worst part of this story is that she refuses to admit that she lied so she will not have to return the money she got and will apparently go unpunished for this.

I hope your mind can rest easy now.

I read the opening post and then started reading from the last page; my first post on the fifth (100pp) page was jumping into an ongoing conversation; it was not my identifying The Worst Part About This Story. It was simply a point that I agreed with kame-sennin on.

This is a pretty amazing assertion. The title doesn't use "cried rape" as some sort of universal truth. This particular woman DID cry rape. If anything is hostile towards women, it would be the implications of this particular woman's actions.

I think the idea that this should have any implications towards women broadly is hostile towards women. Of course, it is something that every minority has to deal with: Knowing that on some level, you are viewed not wholly as an individual, but as a representative of your minority group. Would anyone have taken a false rape report by a man and say anything about what it implies about men in general?

Prattling on about "rape culture" fixes exactly none of this.

Eliminating rape culture would help, though. The problem is that you cannot eliminate something that is invisible to you - and given that you're using scare quotes, I think I can be reasonably assured that it is not visible to you. Right? So, yes, explaining to people what rape culture is is important.

 

[favouriteflavour]

His lawyer has a pretty large portion of the blame here. Had he gone to trial she would be guilty of perjury instead of false evidence and he would at least be financially better off as he would be able to sue for damages.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Why did she lie about being raped in the first place?

 

[Dead Man]

If we lived in a world where this woman would face steep penalties for this than she probably wouldn't have came forward. I don't know what to do with that information.

I think you can make a law where proven false allegations leading to convictions are prosecuted and disputed cases are not. I'm far from a lawyer though. Better a guilty person go free etc.

Edit: Missed that she didn't testify so no perjury. Shit still sucks.

 

[mysocksarepink]

this girl I went to highschool did this to someone too..

however, he was 19.. she was 17. Her mom found out about them having sex and she (the daughter) cried rape


he's still in jail :/


money over bitches, 4real

 

[Gaborn]

this girl I went to highschool did this to someone too..

however, he was 19.. she was 17. Her mom found out about them having sex and she (the daughter) cried rape


he's still in jail :/


money over bitches, 4real

How sure are you that he WASN'T raping her? Are you just assuming because you knew the guy, considered him a friend? And if you're sure it wasn't rape, where were you in his trial?

 

[timetokill]

Why did she lie about being raped in the first place?

She didn't want her mom to find out she was sexually active.

Seriously, that's the reason. That's why an innocent man had to go to jail for 6 years. That's why he's on the sex offenders registry.

So this bitch could save a little face.

 

[rdrr gnr]

Rape Culture. Great. I'll add that to Schrodinger's Rapist and the rest of my list regarding things I truly, truly care about. In fact, I purpose a similar term apply to strange women who have sex with men. You don't know whether or not they'll accuse you of rape, you have to assume they will; therefore, take precautions.

I've actually heard various famous comedians and musicians talk about their sexual outings and the fear they have of being falsely accused of rape (this was pertaining to the anchorman in New York). During sexual outings, they suggested saving text messages that gave consent (sexting or whatnot), ask to take private videos, walking your partner out of the hotel room and doing something "memorable" in the lobby so the employees see: dropping a drink, hugging your partner, being loud, discussing the act (awkwardly) with an usher or receptionist. This in the hope that all parties present realize the exchange was nothing short of consensual. Of course these things are totally meaningless as evidence on their own, but they said they feel more comfortable afterwards as most of their outings are with "strangers" whom they know little of. They also said to follow up a consensual outing with a text asking about how it was or whether they'd what to do it again next time they were in town. I'm sure 99% of people would never need to take such measures, but if you are famous, rich, or have huge prospects (like the story in the OP) don't be an idiot.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

She didn't want her mom to find out she was sexually active.

Seriously, that's the reason. That's why an innocent man had to go to jail for 6 years. That's why he's on the sex offenders registry.

So this bitch could save a little face.

wow

 

[shanshan310]

She didn't want her mom to find out she was sexually active.

Seriously, that's the reason. That's why an innocent man had to go to jail for 6 years. That's why he's on the sex offenders registry.

So this bitch could save a little face.

mysocksarepink alt? or are you just projecting now?

How sure are you that he WASN'T raping her? Are you just assuming because you knew the guy, considered him a friend? And if you're sure it wasn't rape, where were you in his trial?

Because bitches want money maaan.



"cry rape". What a disgusting term. The number of rape cases that turned out to be false accusations are minutely small. Then suddenly one outlier shows up and that's somehow enough to through all rape accusations into dispute. I can't deal with this shit anymore.

 

[frequency]

Because bitches want money maaan.



"cry rape". What a disgusting term. The number of rape cases that turned out to be false accusations are minutely small. Then suddenly one outlier shows up and that's somehow enough to through all rape accusations into dispute. I can't deal with this shit anymore.

You just don't understand. Women have all the power. A woman can easily destroy a man's life with like three words.

 

[timetokill]

mysocksarepink alt? or are you just projecting now?

Or am I just reading the fucking article?

After the alleged rape, no male DNA had been detected on Gibson's underwear, his attorneys said. Also, the classmate Gibson first told about the alleged attack — via the note — said Gibson later admitted to making up the story so her mother wouldn't find out she was sexually active, attorneys said.

 

[shanshan310]

You just don't understand. Women have all the power. They can easily destroy a man's life with like three words.

Yeah, there's this thing called evidence...

I thought in cases where a woman was raped it was the man who had all the power.

EDIT: Like gaborn said before, the bigger problem is the under reporting of rape because they are afraid of not being taken seriously, or even accused of being a slut who changed her mind.

Or am I just reading the fucking article?

He was talking specifically about "a friend he knew who was sent to jail".

 

[timetokill]

He was talking specifically about "a friend he knew who was sent to jail".

Alligatorjandro was? What gave you that impression?

I thought he was talking about the case in the OP. He didn't quote anybody when asking that question.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Alligatorjandro was? What gave you that impression?

I thought he was talking about the case in the OP. I could have missed something.

I was talking about the article.

 

[KevinCow]

I didn't say they should be. Yes, false reporting is a problem, but it's been posted again and again that such false reporting is a small portion of the actual issue.

And it's been posted again and again that that's irrelevant. Women should not have the power to ruin a man's life like that. It doesn't happens more often? That's nice. But it still shouldn't ever fucking happen at all.

It's like a nurse defending herself by saying, "Well I've only ever dropped one baby! It doesn't happen very often!"

It's like complaining about someone who abuses food stamps while walking past a soup kitchen.

Yes, because most people are using the system properly, we should ignore the potential and actual examples of people abusing it.

Also important to note in this comparison: misusing food stamps doesn't get innocent people put in prison for six years and labeled a sex offender for the rest of their life.

No one is saying that innocent men should be put in prison, and no one is saying it is not a problem.

marrec is.

What I'm suggesting is not a panacea to stop all rapes (and false reporting of rapes) overnight. What I'm suggesting is that starting as soon as possible we need to do a better more intelligent and clearer job of socializing kids to respect women. To decouple alcohol and sex. To stop the sexualization of women in our culture. To socialize boys early on to be around girls and stop seeing them as the "other" or the "enemy" at a young age because I think in a lot of ways that carries over. You're right, I'm not giving you a quick fix or an easy answer because there ISN'T one. But I'm saying there IS a way to deal with it in the long term if society is willing.

Yes, it would be wonderful if we could educate people to not be jackasses. Educate all men to not succumb to their animalistic instincts and treat women with respect so that rape never, ever happens, educate all women to be responsible for their actions and never, ever lie about rape.

Unfortunately, I live in the real world, where horrible people will always exist and horrible things will always happen. Yeah, we should educate boys and girls on the opposite sex and how to respect them, but that won't stop these things from happening. It doesn't solve this problem. You still have to deal with rape accusations, and you still have to figure out a way to differentiate actual rape cases from false accusations.

Eliminating rape culture would help, though. The problem is that you cannot eliminate something that is invisible to you - and given that you're using scare quotes, I think I can be reasonably assured that it is not visible to you. Right? So, yes, explaining to people what rape culture is is important.

I use quotes because I'm still not convinced that the concept of "rape culture" is anything more than a strawman invented by feminists to get other women angry at men, and to scare people away from speaking up for the victim in cases like the one this thread is about. You can't outright call someone a rapist if they disagree with your views that all men are potential rapists, but you can do the next best thing and shut them up or at least make them look bad by accusing them of supporting "rape culture". Because that's is literally the only context I've ever seen the phrase "rape culture" used.

If you want to try to convince me otherwise and prove that "rape culture" actually means something, be my guest.

 

[shanshan310]

And it's been posted again and again that that's irrelevant. Women should not have the power to ruin a man's life like that. It doesn't happens more often? That's nice. But it still shouldn't ever fucking happen at all.

It's like a nurse defending herself by saying, "Well I've only ever dropped one baby! It doesn't happen very often!"

Okay, what's the solution then? It would be awesome if no one innocent ever went to jail, for any offence. So how do we manage to get all the real rapists and keep anyone who was "framed" out of jail?

Oh, and please don't make this a women vs. men thread. One shitty woman's actions should not brand all women.

Alligatorjandro was? What gave you that impression?

I thought he was talking about the case in the OP. He didn't quote anybody when asking that question.

Okay no that was my bad. I thought you were quoting someone else. Sorry -_-''

 

[timetokill]

Okay no that was my bad. I thought you were quoting someone else. Sorry -_-''

apology accepted

 

[Saroyan]

Man this guy really got fucked over bad, years of his life lost in prison, the college football opportunity, who knows what else he might have lost because of this woman.

 

[frequency]

Yeah, there's this thing called evidence...

I thought in cases where a woman was raped it was the man who had all the power.

EDIT: Like gaborn said before, the bigger problem is the under reporting of rape because they are afraid of not being taken seriously, or even accused of being a slut who changed her mind.

I thought the American justice system was "innocent until proven guilty."

And I thought it was established that proving sexual assault was a difficult thing to do.

So I think the victim is always at a disadvantage as you say.

In this story, the lawyer told the man to just admit guilt without even going to court. That seems silly to me...

 

[kame-sennin]

She didn't want her mom to find out she was sexually active.

Seriously, that's the reason. That's why an innocent man had to go to jail for 6 years. That's why he's on the sex offenders registry.

This goes to show precisely why combatting sexism benefits everyone. This girl did what she did because of the stigma around sexually promiscuous women. If we as a society did a better job dismantling such gender inequality, this kind of thing wouldn't happen.

 

[ReBurn]

mysocksarepink alt? or are you just projecting now?




Because bitches want money maaan.



"cry rape". What a disgusting term. The number of rape cases that turned out to be false accusations are minutely small. Then suddenly one outlier shows up and that's somehow enough to through all rape accusations into dispute. I can't deal with this shit anymore.

You're right. In light of the fact that the accusations of rape are almost never false nobody should ever question a rape accusation. Statistically one outlier causing an innocent person to go to prison is insignificant, so the topic shouldn't even be discussed. Should guilt of the accused always be assumed in rape cases? What is the standard?

All victims should be protected, even the falsely accused. It's people like the woman in this case that cause the doubt. If you want to be disgusted, be disgusted with her.

 

[Vermillion]

I just want to remind everyone here that this discussion won't change anyone's views. Both sides will be under the illusion of progress when they clear up a misunderstanding. That said, carry on.

 

[Gaborn]

You're right. In light of the fact that the accusations of rape are almost never false nobody should ever question a rape accusation. Statistically one outlier causing an innocent person to go to prison is insignificant, so the topic shouldn't even be discussed. Should guilt of the accused always be assumed in rape cases? What is the standard?

All victims should be protected, even the falsely accused. It's people like the woman in this case that cause the doubt. If you want to be disgusted, be disgusted with her.

No one is saying this. I think what people are suggesting is the response to a false accusation of rape (and the perception relating to how often false accusations occur) is dramatically disproportionate to the data. So what people should do is step back and try to contextualize these situations.

 

[Reuenthal]

This goes to show precisely why combatting sexism benefits everyone. This girl did what she did because of the stigma around sexually promiscuous women. If we as a society did a better job dismantling such gender inequality, this kind of thing wouldn't happen.

She did what she did because she saw some sort of a benefit and is an immoral asshole. Her immorality is what is behind her actions first and foremost.

Better gender equality might help and make such false accusations less likely but you will continue seeing this kind of thing. Punishing those who do a crime is probably the most effective way to go with making this behavior less likely, so if she was harshly punished she would be an example of what happens when you falsely accuse others and a deterrent to not do it, though obviously people will still continue doing this thing even if it would be less of them. Because among other reasons not everyone who does a crime is punished.

 

[Axiology]

There's only one way to handle a situation like this...

Fuck this planet, man.
As for the term "cry rape" being disgusting, wtf? In this case that's exactly what it is. Remember the story of the boy who cried wolf? Hmm.
I understand not wanting such a term to begin to color all potential rape situations, but you can't defend against the term being used for this... lady for that reason alone. Doing so would only cheapen the experiences of those women who actually have been raped and struggle with it day to day. In fact, women should be the ones crucifying this woman more so than men for trivializing such a heinous act for her own monetary gain. You don't think she "cried rape" by lying about being raped by a man and putting him in jail for 6 years for her own MONETARY GAIN?

 

[shanshan310]

I thought the American justice system was "innocent until proven guilty."

And I thought it was established that proving sexual assault was a difficult thing to do.

So I think the victim is always at a disadvantage as you say.

In this story, the lawyer told the man to just admit guilt without even going to court. That seems silly to me...

Yeah, it seems pretty silly to me too. I agree with you.

You're right. In light of the fact that the accusations of rape are almost never false nobody should ever question a rape accusation. Statistically one outlier causing an innocent person to go to prison is insignificant, so the topic shouldn't even be discussed. Should guilt of the accused always be assumed in rape cases? What is the standard?

All victims should be protected, even the falsely accused. It's people like the woman in this case that cause the doubt. If you want to be disgusted, be disgusted with her.

I am disgusted at her. I am also disgusted at people who use phrases like "cry rape". Its demeaning to rape victims.


I don't have an answer to the guilt part. Especially in old cases, including for example church ministers raping small children, there usually is no evidence. You have to rely on the memories of the accuser. I think in the case against Michael Jackson it was shown that memories can be distorted from time and pressure from others. What would you do in cases such as these?

 

[KevinCow]

Okay, what's the solution then? It would be awesome if no one innocent ever went to jail, for any offence. So how do we manage to get all the real rapists and keep anyone who was "framed" out of jail?

Yes. That's my entire point. It's a tough question that needs to be solved.

The difference is, other crimes require evidence. Objective evidence. You can't just say, "Bob stole my TV!" and he's done. You have to prove that Bob stole your TV.

The problem with rape cases is there is no objective evidence like that. It is a subjective thing. Either the woman consented, or she didn't. And if the man and woman were the only ones around, their words on whether or not she consented are the only evidence to go on. As it is now, the woman says she didn't consent, it doesn't matter what the guy says, he's done. The power is entirely in the woman's hands, and it shouldn't be. But if you take that power away from women, how do you catch the actual rapists?

Hence the problem.

Hence the catch 22.

Hence my posts.

Hence my entire fucking point.

It is a problem that needs to be solved, and you can't write it off by saying, "BUT IT DOESN'T HAPPEN VERY OFTEN!"

 

[Particle Physicist]

They can't because of the statute of limitations.

Basically anything that isn't a murder can't be prosecuted this long after the fact.

There is one possible exception, which is that officers of the court can be prosecuted if they presented a fraudulent case, so it is possible the prosecutor could be held liable to some degree, but not likely. More likely would be her lawyer in her civil case against the school, but even then, you can't prove he knew he was presenting fraudulent evidence.

I don't know if this has been answered in the thread, but could he basically sue her and her family for the money that she herself received in the lawsuit?

 

[akira28]

the most mind boggling part of this, was that she lied because she was afraid of what her mother would think. That goes on the short list of the top 4 things that are most fucked up about this case. Some simple shit like that.

And again, I say instead of diagnosing and saying the numbers are insignificant so lets concentrate solely on getting more rapes reported, we can work on both fronts to get more people to come out, and make sure those people are both supported and vetted in some way. If you have to do a catch all and not single out false rape reports and just go with false crime reports, fine. But there is a fear on both ends here. And it seems like one side is saying 'the numbers are so low, so if you don't rape anyone you have nothing to fear'. How about reforms on both ends so there doesn't have to be a conflict?

 

[shanshan310]

Yes. That's my entire point. It's a tough question that needs to be solved.

The difference is, other crimes require evidence. Objective evidence. You can't just say, "Bob stole my TV!" and he's done. You have to prove that Bob stole your TV.

The problem with rape cases is there is no objective evidence like that. It is a subjective thing. Either the woman consented, or she didn't. And if the man and woman were the only ones around, their words on whether or not she consented are the only evidence to go on. As it is now, the woman says she didn't consent, it doesn't matter what the guy says, he's done. The power is entirely in the woman's hands, and it shouldn't be. But if you take that power away from women, how do you catch the actual rapists?

Hence the problem.

Hence the catch 22.

Hence my posts.

Hence my entire fucking point.

It is a problem that needs to be solved, and you can't write it off by saying, "BUT IT DOESN'T HAPPEN VERY OFTEN!"

But that's the thing. Because of the nature of this crime, and the extent of technology now, there are two options. 1. Have some innocent men go to prison. 2. Have it incredibly difficult to prove someone was raped, and have a lot of rapists out on the street. It is a problem that needs to be solved, but its a problem that cannot be solved at this time. It sucks, but there is no perfect solution.

I just want to remind everyone here that this discussion won't change anyone's views. Both sides will be under the illusion of progress when they clear up a misunderstanding. That said, carry on.

Thanks man. Maybe I should quit while I'm ahead.

 

[Onemic]

the most mind boggling part of this, was that she lied because she was afraid of what her mother would think. That goes on the short list of the top 4 things that are most fucked up about this case. Some simple shit like that.

And again, I say instead of diagnosing and saying the numbers are insignificant so lets concentrate solely on getting more rapes reported, we can work on both fronts to get more people to come out, and make sure those people are both supported and vetted in some way. If you have to do a catch all and not single out false rape reports and just go with false crime reports, fine. But there is a fear on both ends here. And it seems like one side is saying 'the numbers are so low, so if you don't rape anyone you have nothing to fear'. How about reforms on both ends so there doesn't have to be a conflict?

That is what I was saying, but it is apparently impossible.