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Shin Megami Tensei Community Thread: Be Your True Demon

Aizo

Aizo

Banned
I want to get into SMT more, but I'm not sure what I'd enjoy.
My first memories of SMT are of Digital Devil Saga reviews on X-play—I'm kinda young.
I bought SMTIV when it came out, but kinda dropped out when I got to
Tokyo
. I think I did this because of the aesthetic change kinda turning me off. I played the American version of Persona 4 on PS2 a few years ago, but the English voice acting made my ears bleed, so I'll just get the Japanese one for Vita one day maybe.

Fast forward to the present—I beat Persona 3 Portable last night. I thought it was okay, but I hated Tartarus so, so much. I found the story to be pretty bad, and I don't know if I'm a fan of the press turn system. Definitely enjoyed the gameplay of SMTIV more, but I guess I liked the characters in P3P more? I do like character development and interaction a lot in games, but I'm not really into the waifu shit.

Where do I go from here? I'm a bit intimidated by SMT, because I've never really been into dungeon crawling (I get bored of grinding in same-y environments and ugly hallways). Is there one that the community would recommend to ease me in/get me into dungeon crawling? Or, is there one that's not super long to start me out?
 
R

RecursiveFault

Banned
AlabastreAizo said:
I want to get into SMT more, but I'm not sure what I'd enjoy.
My first memories of SMT are of Digital Devil Saga reviews on X-play—I'm kinda young.
I bought SMTIV when it came out, but kinda dropped out when I got to
Tokyo
. I think I did this because of the aesthetic change kinda turning me off. I played the American version of Persona 4 on PS2 a few years ago, but the English voice acting made my ears bleed, so I'll just get the Japanese one for Vita one day maybe.

Fast forward to the present—I beat Persona 3 Portable last night. I thought it was okay, but I hated Tartarus so, so much. I found the story to be pretty bad, and I don't know if I'm a fan of the press turn system. Definitely enjoyed the gameplay of SMTIV more, but I guess I liked the characters in P3P more? I do like character development and interaction a lot in games, but I'm not really into the waifu shit.

Where do I go from here? I'm a bit intimidated by SMT, because I've never really been into dungeon crawling (I get bored of grinding in same-y environments and ugly hallways). Is there one that the community would recommend to ease me in/get me into dungeon crawling? Or, is there one that's not super long to start me out?
Click to expand...
The system in P3P isn't Press Turn, it's called "One More". SMT4's gameplay is the Press Turn system. Mostly everyone agrees Tartarus and the randomly generated Persona 4 dungeons are awful.

Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2 are probably your best bet. They take the Press Turn gameplay and focus on set characters and story far more than mainline games like Nocturne or IV. Decidedly more mature than Persona in terms of it's general cast and setting. Note that DDS2 is a direct sequel and it improves the gameplay a fair bit.

If you really enjoy DDS I'd hop over to Nocturne and give that a shot after.

Oh also, fair warning, the PSN versions of DDS are kinda jacked with missing sound effects and desync'd audio, so go for the original PS2 versions if possible.
 
Aizo

Aizo

Banned
Ever since I first saw DDS, I wanted it. I was just always intimidated. I had a feeling that would be the answer. Are the battles random encounter? Story any good?
 
B

Barrylocke

Member
Though the battles are random, DDS does have an encounter gauge that slowly turns red to inform you when a new fight is coming. A lot of people arent big on random fights, but I've noticed that this addition often alleviates how some people feel about them.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
Barrylocke said:
Though the battles are random, DDS does have an encounter gauge that slowly turns red to inform you when a new fight is coming. A lot of people arent big on random fights, but I've noticed that this addition often alleviates how some people feel about them.
Click to expand...
It's still pretty dang high, but when you're grinding to take on the uber bosses, that's kind of a blessing.
 
I

Inquisitive_Ghost

Member
Shiina said:
They probably knew people wouldn't care cause they'd know the next two steps would have an encounter anyway.
Click to expand...

Actually this is one of my problems with DDS. I suspect the encounters are about as prevalent as Nocturne, but having every single one take you off guard makes them feel worse. :(
 
I

Inquisitive_Ghost

Member
AlabastreAizo said:
I'm not a big fan of random encounter at high rates... Sigh... maybe I'm just not meant to play SMT.
Click to expand...

The only SMTs I know of without random encounters are Persona 3/4 (not sure about 1/2), SMTIV, and the Devil Survivor games.

Have you tried Devil Survivor Overclocked? It controls like an SRPG on a grid, but in actual battle it's closer to your typical turn-based SMT game. Story is about demonic apocalypse, war between Law and Chaos, the usual stuff.
 
B

Barrylocke

Member
I don't remember Soul Hackers having a terrible battle rate. Persona 1 on the PSX in America actually had its battle rate lowered from the Japanese version (which the American PSP version is based on). Unfortunately the PSX version as a whole had some other issues that make it less desirable for most.
 
R

RecursiveFault

Banned
Inquisitive_Ghost said:
The only SMTs I know of without random encounters are Persona 3/4 (not sure about 1/2), SMTIV, and the Devil Survivor games.
Click to expand...
P1 and P2 have random battles, and I beleive Innocent Sin on PSP has a higher battle rate than the PSX version, though they do have actual dungeons and not random gen P3/P4 dungeons.

If encounters on the overworld in SMT4 were less common and trivial, I'd say it's the best world/battle setup yet. On foot it's definitely my favorite, and it hope most future Megatens take from that on foot gameplay.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
So I felt like taking another crack at Debiru Summona(Saturn) because I hate myself.

20 steps away from Kitayama University's exit, just after some mapping and grinding. Pig casts Mudo. Hi Charon!

I hate you too, Atlus.
 
H

Heavenly_Spear

Neo Member
Barrylocke said:
This is just a random thought I had when reading the Confused about the Persona franchise topic. I notice that when people talk about Persona 2: Innocent Sin and how Yukino is a party member, she's referenced as being a cameo or a guest character, which I always thought was kind of weird.

While it's true that her plot isn't tied together in the same backstory as Maya and the high school kids, she's still around for far longer than Jun is. When I hear of her being a guest member I wonder if people might think she's only around for a couple dungeons, when in reality she's there from introductory scenes up until Jun is brought back to normal and the city ascends into the sky. By that point there's only the 4 Zodiac dungeons and then the final dungeon, which is about 20-30% of the game as a whole. She is still technically a temporary character, but I sometimes think she deserves a little more credit. On the other had I can definitely understand Jun getting more billing as he's more relevant to the overall plot and is also around as the Joker from the start.
Click to expand...

Aww, yeah I kinda dislike her being treated like that, since she and the rest of the team have great chemistry,especially with Maya! I kinda wished she stayed and when I played EP and found out she was to basically be replaced by Ulala as Maya's right hand gal, I was pretty disappointed. :(
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
Hey, it's Kyouji's 20th anniversary!

255px-Devsum.jpg


Release date: 12/25/1995.

Well, almost. The PSP version came ten years later.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
Barrylocke said:
Getting a little overexcited on the anniversary topic, eh? At least I was only a day off with the 999 anniversary topic :p
Click to expand...

Just happened to think of it since I booted the game up on a whim.

It's the most non-import friendly RPG ever. I can't even tell if a demon joined without checking my party.

Then again, I guess playing SMT 1 or 2 raw would be that way also... though at least I could save state those monsters.
 
E

eyeball_kid

Member
Inquisitive_Ghost said:
Have you tried Devil Survivor Overclocked? It controls like an SRPG on a grid, but in actual battle it's closer to your typical turn-based SMT game. Story is about demonic apocalypse, war between Law and Chaos, the usual stuff.
Click to expand...

An SMT SRPG? Hm, interesting. Well, I only have a DS not a 3DS so I'd have to play the original(s). Might have to find a copy of that.
 
I

Inquisitive_Ghost

Member
eyeball_kid said:
An SMT SRPG? Hm, interesting. Well, I only have a DS not a 3DS so I'd have to play the original(s). Might have to find a copy of that.
Click to expand...

The original version is...not great. If you only have a DS (and I hate saying this, because DSO is one of my favourite RPGs), you might want to hunt down Devil Survivor 2 instead. DS1 doesn't have a Compendium (seriously, wtf) and is lower on the demon count and is somewhat unbalanced. DSO fixed all this and then DS2 incorporated DSO's improvements. The story in DS2 is pretty weak, though.
 
E

eyeball_kid

Member
Inquisitive_Ghost said:
The original version is...not great. If you only have a DS (and I hate saying this, because DSO is one of my favourite RPGs), you might want to hunt down Devil Survivor 2 instead. DS1 doesn't have a Compendium (seriously, wtf) and is lower on the demon count and is somewhat unbalanced. DSO fixed all this and then DS2 incorporated DSO's improvements. The story in DS2 is pretty weak, though.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, thanks for the warning. The "pretty weak" story in DS2 is fairly offputting, as that's always an aspect I enjoy about SMT games. Sometimes finding the best version of a game is as bad as rerolling for demon fusions...
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
Barrylocke said:
Although I could have sworn you read Japanese CJ_iwakura.
Click to expand...

I know some hiragana & katakana. Nowhere near the proficiency needed for an SMT. It got me through Soul Hackers, but DS is a whole different beast.


DS2's story isn't as good as 1's, but the cast is still fun.
 
B

Barrylocke

Member
Inquisitive_Ghost said:
The original version is...not great. If you only have a DS (and I hate saying this, because DSO is one of my favourite RPGs), you might want to hunt down Devil Survivor 2 instead. DS1 doesn't have a Compendium (seriously, wtf) and is lower on the demon count and is somewhat unbalanced. DSO fixed all this and then DS2 incorporated DSO's improvements. The story in DS2 is pretty weak, though.
Click to expand...

As a counterpoint, I never really found myself missing a compendium in the original Devil Survivor, especially thanks to the aforementioned demon count. Demons available in the demon auction never truly go away, and the improved Fusion search options made it way easier to find a demon that you wanted, especially if you've handled SMTs that came before like the PS2 games. It's nice to have but I never found myself really missing it.

I will definitely give you imbalanced, but that never became a huge problem until the final and maybe the 2nd to last day. I say this as a person who went for the Naoya route with a balanced stat growth path (vs an easier route or a more optimized growth path). And let's not pretend that DS2 didn't have balance issues as well (Multi-hit/strike says hello)

A lower demon count definitely is a downside, but I feel like this game was shorter than most SMTs and between that and the SRPG style, it was more acceptable to have less demons in my mind (kind of the same way as with Raidou Kuzunoha vs. the Soulless Army).


Devil Survivor 2 does have better gameplay than the first one, that's for sure. But I don't think the first ones is so bad that it's not worth a playthrough if eye_ball kid has no plans on getting a 3DS anytime soon. It does indeed have the better story too.

Of course if he does wish to get a 3DS in the near future, then yes he should definitely hold off for the new version.
 
H

HGH

Banned
I was looking for mentions of DDS(basically my favorites in the series) and never even noticed there was an SMT thread so this is nice to see!

Since there was a mention of gauges, I always wondered if there could be some better implementation of something like Solar Noise in a new game. It was such an odd mechanic, and the couple of skills that were based on it being maxed or minimum were pretty throwaway. Although Berserk form was really neat.

GloriousBagel said:
Hey guys! A dude that worked on several SMT games is working on a new game!!!!

Makoto Kitano is working on a Compile Heart game
Click to expand...
Well, it says he's the Lead Designer of Nocturne and DDS1/2 among of a bunch of other things. That sounds like it deserves props. What exactly does the position entail though? And is it a situation like a good movie director that can save a crappy script?
 
B

Barrylocke

Member
HGH said:
I was looking for mentions of DDS(basically my favorites in the series) and never even noticed there was an SMT thread so this is nice to see!

Since there was a mention of gauges, I always wondered if there could be some better implementation of something like Solar Noise in a new game. It was such an odd mechanic, and the couple of skills that were based on it being maxed or minimum were pretty throwaway. Although Berserk form was really neat.
Click to expand...

It's been awhile, but solar noise was the DDS version of the Moon mechanic, right? It seems like recent SMT games are turning away from the moon charts, though they've been around since the beginning.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
Barrylocke said:
CJ, I think we should focus on updating the OP that hasnt been touched in 3 years to include SMT4 and Soul Hackers and such before we worry about a new thread title.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah...

Well, you are the first to ask!
(I'll get to it, but I can't do much about editing those lovely banners.)
 
G

GloriousBagel

Banned
HGH said:
Well, it says he's the Lead Designer of Nocturne and DDS1/2 among of a bunch of other things. That sounds like it deserves props. What exactly does the position entail though? And is it a situation like a good movie director that can save a crappy script?
Click to expand...

Gematsu says he's working on the game as a producer. Whatever that means I guess, there are three other producers aside from him, so the impact that he could possibly make is low I guess?

cj_iwakura said:
Oh yeah...

Well, you are the first to ask!
(I'll get to it, but I can't do much about editing those lovely banners.)
Click to expand...

Don't forget DeSu 2: Record Breaker! :)

It's a shame this thread is moving so slow ;__;
 
B

BlackJace

Member
My copy of Digital Devil Apocalypse came waaaay earlier than expected! Loving these character designs...

I think SMT II has my favorite design in general. Aleph da god.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
BlackJace said:
My copy of Digital Devil Apocalypse came waaaay earlier than expected! Loving these character designs...

I think SMT II has my favorite design in general. Aleph da god.
Click to expand...

The Maken X section is... heh, something else.

Lots of Kaneko omake at the end, too.

OP updated. Minimal, but it's there. Let me know if I should expand on anything.
 
S

SatelliteOfLove

Member
GloriousBagel said:
Gematsu says he's working on the game as a producer. Whatever that means I guess, there are three other producers aside from him, so the impact that he could possibly make is low I guess?



Don't forget DeSu 2: Record Breaker! :)

It's a shame this thread is moving so slow ;__;
Click to expand...

If Compile Hearts was back in the days of M.U.S.H.A., and it was still just "Compile", I'd not be preemptively disappointed.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
Worth a crosspost, although I think I'm the only SMT fan who enjoyed this show.

M5bhwwW.jpg
Click to expand...

Gonna be $toomuch, so I'll wait, but I did like it. Animated SMT action is always fun, and DS2 actually gave the demons personalities.

Ultimate_Trainer said:
In Nocturne, is the
Amala Labyrinth
recommended after defeating
Matador
? It somewhat feels like I should continue through Ikebukuro tho.
Click to expand...

You can do the first Kalpa, but tread lightly. It's a dangerous place.
 
G

Golnei

Member
Nimby said:
I want to see another non-SMT game with Kaneko art. The cover alone makes me wish I had a Dreamcast.
Click to expand...

At this point, I just want to see any game with new artwork from him - has he done anything since Strange Journey? In any case, he and Shinkawa are both artists I'd love to see work on a greater variety of projects beyond the franchises they're primarily known for, though the latter may no longer have any choice...
 
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