Given how hyped people are for SMTIV, I'm inclined to say HELL YES. It's a bit dated now but still a great game. It's challenging though (you will die on one more than one occasion) but don't let that deter you.
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Shin Megami Tensei IV (3DS) - Trailer up! - TBA 2013 (New: Website update)
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Given how hyped people are for SMTIV, I'm inclined to say HELL YES. It's a bit dated now but still a great game. It's challenging though (you will die on one more than one occasion) but don't let that deter you.
lostinblue
Banned
Was really hyped for this today and how with luck I could perhaps put my dirty mitts around it still in 2013, then remembered Atlus has no european representation and that 3DS has region lock (I'm in PAL-lands).
Fuck you Nintendo. Fuck you very much.
Dammit, I'm pissed now.
Fuck you Nintendo. Fuck you very much.
Dammit, I'm pissed now.
How is it compared to DDS?
I'm finishing up DDS2, and although I enjoyed a large part of the game (great atmosphere, music and story), the dungeons can get kind of boring and the difficulty is kinda frustrating at times... it always ends up as "did you bring the right characters with the rights skills in this boss battle?".
SMT3 looks like more of the same but more frustrating, and with less story.
Am I wrong?
That's about right. It doesn't sound like your kind of game.
The dungeons are longer (really, it's a non-stop dungeon). You can't equip and unequip skills like in DDS, so it makes that aspect you were talking about much harder. The whole game is harder. Much, much, much less story cutscenes. etc.
I personally found Nocturne a lot less frustrating than DDS, because while it's true that bosses can be skill checks at times, if you don't have the right skill in DDS you could be in for a lot of grinding. Whereas in Nocturne, it shouldn't take more than 10 minutes or so to fuse or recruit a demon with the skill you need.
Having to grind 3 hours for each boss battle is NOT my definition of fun either.
EDIT: For the record, I really loved DDS overall despite these few downfalls
lostinblue
Banned
Frustrating as they were, I loved them all.
Difficulty not withstanding.
Kinda amazing looking back, how Atlus with financial woes (as they were in the beginning of the 128 bit generation) managed to pump out so many awesome games in a row (SMT3, DDS1 and 2, Persona 3 and 4, 2 Devil Summoner's...).
This generation by comparison has been a no show and my main reason why I'm not too keen about Atlus going high end, I mean the fact that Persona 4 was a 18 month project was a huge plus, for them and for us consumers. How low end it was from a tech standpoint enforced that it had to have a kick ass artistic direction.
I'm not so sure about having motion captured cutscenes, detailed mouths and fingers, that sort of fairy dust over it. I just want my fix. (some user said that about PS3 versus 3DS development back there, I noticed)
My thoughts exactly, I'm really, really happy about it being third person though; was somewhat afraid of it being a first person endeavour, would bite nonetheless but that's really the "extra" that I wanted. Shame we're only gonna see it in 2015 in Europe.
Difficulty not withstanding.
Kinda amazing looking back, how Atlus with financial woes (as they were in the beginning of the 128 bit generation) managed to pump out so many awesome games in a row (SMT3, DDS1 and 2, Persona 3 and 4, 2 Devil Summoner's...).
This generation by comparison has been a no show and my main reason why I'm not too keen about Atlus going high end, I mean the fact that Persona 4 was a 18 month project was a huge plus, for them and for us consumers. How low end it was from a tech standpoint enforced that it had to have a kick ass artistic direction.
I'm not so sure about having motion captured cutscenes, detailed mouths and fingers, that sort of fairy dust over it. I just want my fix. (some user said that about PS3 versus 3DS development back there, I noticed)
My thoughts exactly, I'm really, really happy about it being third person though; was somewhat afraid of it being a first person endeavour, would bite nonetheless but that's really the "extra" that I wanted. Shame we're only gonna see it in 2015 in Europe.
A dig at Kingdom Hearts franchise! high five man!
It was? That's impressive. I wonder if they'll have the same turnaround on Persona 5.
Catherine-level of production would be awesome for SMT and Persona... just saying.
lostinblue
Banned
Not too sure about that for I was fine with what it was. It had drawn portraits instead of up-close detail and all that, but so what? I liked it, certainly didn't hamper their epic'ness.
I think a lot of developers forget that they didn't need that to tell a story (and they often told better stories at that) I'm not so much a "no it doesn't look good" (to be made with high end in mind), but in the end we waited 4 extra years for something that'll go down on memory lane the same way because it's the message that stands out, you can have the best production values available and still be forgettable while some SNES games are really memorable; and that's if by going high end it doesn't make compromises, if it does we'll remember the compromises like we often do for Final Fantasy games. That's all there is to it.
The way of the high end is not always the best way to make money/keep on going; specially seeing it's a one track way, if Nippon Ichi made high tech Disgaea games I don't think they could go back to low budget Disgaea, they'd be accused of cheapness then. But is low end such a bad choice for them? Although I'd say they don't capitalize on it like they should (neither does Atlus) low end on home console's often means you can go port crazy on the cheap (and the ports not suck) and that's bliss for a third party. They could have released motherfucking Disgaea 3 at the same time on PS2, PSP and PS3. Now we're talking.
Low end is not a curse, it ensues that the development is quick and cheap enough (often enables devs to make a longer game, seeing most home console RPG's this gen shrank), ensures easy enough porting and not over relying on the hardware intrincancies (eases out later port efforts as well), also manages to work out better for the teams/talent, a job with an end at view (and a manageable team) is surely easier than a big ass job that'll take you forever; midway of not seeing the goal line people tend to be tired, and at that point it's a mudfight to finish a game/project.
I like system pushers as much as any other guy, but if I was behing a dev of any kind I'd probably be so darn low end; low end is often an asset rather than a curse; and when it comes to SMT I'd consider the kick ass artistic directions a byproduct of the "we're not doing FFX here, so we have to be different"; and I'd take the artistic direction any day.
PS: I can't stress enough that I'm so freaking glad SMT3 is third person though, I'm sure that qualifies as more high end than a first person dungeon crawler would (and looks so good), so my point isn't so much anti-anything as it is that there's a sweet spot for everything; the direction this industry assumes normal, that everything has to go high end (or higher end) though, I don't really like; I feel it's never sustainable in the long run and in the end it's the "core" game that matters for all of us.
Sorry for the rant.
I actually agree about most of what you're saying. I think there needs to be both big projects and low-end projects with kick-ass artistic directions.
I just wish the low-end projects weren't restricted to handheld console. I feel like PSN and Ouya would be great homes for future Atlus projects though...
Just take it with you.
Member
Yeah, they get more dynamic poses in SMTII, but they all have essentially the same design.
Yeah, no kidding.
lostinblue
Banned
Me too.
I used to be a fan of point and click adventure games on PC, looking back they were a gateway drug, because they were simple and low end; everyone could run them and they looked good.
Until that time after Broken Sword 2 when they all started flocking over to 3D, that looked and animated worse, costed more to do... and required PC's a lot of consumers lacked and so it fell out of grace. It's a very different scenario, but to this day games that manage to run even on crap hardware seem to be rewarded for it on PC so it's often a win-win situation/compromise even there.
And yeah, I'd like to see more low end (and appropriate medium-end) making an appearance on HD home consoles as well, the games that I expect nothing out of are often the one's with the biggest soul, and in the end consumers (us) are there to be surprised; I love being surprised.
Most of the time we can't really be surprised by a game we've awaited for 3 or more years (and know virtually everything about what to expect). My favorite last gen games were the one's I bought knowing nothing, and they literally pulled the carpet under my feet with their awesome'ness.
Speaking of which Shin Megami Tensei 3 looks mighty nice in HD (saw it the other day on the PCSX2 thread), I wouldn't mind having more titles doing just that around, not high end by any standards.
Having to grind 3 hours for each boss battle is NOT my definition of fun either.
EDIT: For the record, I really loved DDS overall despite these few downfalls
DDS2 second to last boss was awful. I think I had to grind for around five hours in the end? Absolutely bonkers.
lostinblue
Banned
That's just asking for chea... fast level-up by in-game transactions! (like Tales of Vesperia did ^^')
(that wouldn't be such a bad deal for some old-school made free-to-play RPG's actually, just not "by 2012 design")
Oh crap, that's exactly where I'm at... >_> Oh well...
ENJOY!
When I did it, I beat the last boss, and then the game crashed on the ending cutscene because it turned out my disc was scratched.
I was just about ready to throw my controller through my screen at that point.
ZombieTimeMachine
Member
This seems as good a place as any to ask...I want to get into the SMT series, and the Gamestop near me has both Nocturne and Strange Journey at reasonable prices. Which one is a better starting point, and is the first-person in Strange Journey motion sickness inducing?
TheChillyAcademic
Member
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NOCTURNE
Though SJ is a hell of a game in it's own right.
NOCTURNE!!!
Mysterious Stranger
Member
Marvelous! Makes me want to buy a 3DS.
Nocturne. Strange Journey is weaker in every single aspect.
lostinblue
Banned
Strange Journey being first person is really old school so I'd go with SMT3; unless you happen to love Etrian Odyseey and don't sleep at night thinking how a darker tone game of the same kind would be.
No offense on Strange Journey (that I'm ashamed to say I haven't played yet, but plan to) but old SMT first person games could cure insomnias for me (doesn't help that I enjoy playing before going to sleep), they were really good even then (great plots for their time), but navigating them was monotomous, confusing, repetitive, demanded you to think a lot and well, unforgivingly old school.
SMT3 is not the forgiving type either, but feels more in touch with times I guess.
I'm not going to say Strange Journey is a better game than Nocturne, but it's a hell of a lot more "in touch with the times" than you give it credit for. Maybe you should play it...?
It definitely has an old-school feel to it though. More-so than Nocturne.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
While BOTH should be played, because both are amazing, Nocturne is a fantastic introduction into the main line SMT games and playing it before SJ might actually benefit you as a player. Playing Nocturne will allow you to appreciate the callbacks, cameos and narrative references that are STREWN throughout SJ.
Which games cause motion sickness for you? I can't imagine Strange Journey would, since there isn't a huge amount of motion.
lostinblue
Banned
I certainly should, but my back catalog is huge and I have to import it since I live in PAL-lands. No biggie, I've imported all of my SMT fix in the past but haven't gotten to it yet.
I'm also not saying Strange Journey is an old game, but first person feels old for me when I play newer games using that viewpoint on a corridor-like maze/level (Etrian Odyssey games for instance, or Baroque which I managed to finish recently). I know I was kinda slashing at SMT1 and 2 but I'd love to see remakes of them (or even the PSone/GBA versions) come out so I can play a "more in touch with the times" version; wouldn't really ask for third person versions of it though, since it's not the game they are (sounds like asking for an old school RPG remake sans-random encounters); likewise Strange Journey is what it is, and I can certainly accept that.
SMT1-2 are a case of knowing there's a really good core in there, but not being able to crack it really. As for SJ I hope to; but I wouldn't prefer it to SMT3 viewpoint, perhaps because I'm scarred of it, I suspect I am.
EDIT: Re-reading the post I made I see where you're coming from, going by it alone I really implied they were in the same bag despite being roughly 20 years apart. I meant there would be old school similarities (that I don't prefer to the SMT3 formula) and not that it would feel like a 92-94 dungeon crawler. That isn't what I expect of it by any means.
cj_iwakura
Member
Well, Strange Journey was designed as a throwback to SMT1&2, so yeah.
4 looks much more like the successor to Nocturne I've been waiting aeons for.
And it's the best RPG from last gen, period, if not the best JRPG ever made.
4 looks much more like the successor to Nocturne I've been waiting aeons for.
And it's the best RPG from last gen, period, if not the best JRPG ever made.
*cough*Persona3&4arebetter*cough*
cj_iwakura
Member
Not even up to Demi-Fiend's ankles, but I enjoy them as well.
The only SMT games that come close to Nocturne are Persona 2: EP, Digital Devil Saga, and Soul Hackers.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
They also couldn't be any more different.
SpaceBridge
Member
Man, you guys are bumming me out with this talk of Nocturne's difficulty and repetitiveness.
Sure, if you need some dating tips.
cj_iwakura
Member
Man, you guys are bumming me out with this talk of Nocturne's difficulty and repetitiveness.
Persona 3 is FAR more repetitive than Nocturne. Nocturne has constantly changing areas and surroundings, not the same dungeon over and over.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Fixed.
This guy is awesome. This guy taught me how to raid worth a shit in WoW. Definately blood, toil, tears, and sweat moment during it, but I came out better for it.
Man, you guys are bumming me out with this talk of Nocturne's difficulty and repetitiveness.
It has the finest turn-based combat system on Earth, and the atmosphere never wavers in quality.
Terra_Ex
Member
That's something I can relate to actually, none of the "modern" adventure titles really clicked with me - Pendulo's work for example, their heart is in the right place but the games lack something, I feel like I'm just going through the motions while playing. Having recently finished the 4 Blackwell games and (almost) Gemini Rue and while stylistically they look old-school, they absolutely thrashed any modern offerings I've played of late, drawing me right into the game worlds... Perhaps there's a sort of sweet spot for various genres in terms of graphics and technical complexity, or perhaps you simply get better results when you don't obsess over constantly striving to be as realistic as possible.lostinblue said:
In an ideal world perhaps some of the smaller independent studios will grow to be financially stable enough that they could attempt to fill the medium gap now presented in the marketspace.
I'd like to see them on Steam personally, plenty of games on there with vastly differing aesthetics and niche titles like Recettear have apparently done well. Hopefully we'll see more japanese titles like Ys making the trip. As mentioned above though, the non cutting edge graphics are certainly no impediment to my enjoyment of a game and provided the option is there to tweak the graphical settings the ps2 era was certainly where jrpg devs hit their stride and they still look nice today. Getting back on topic:
No. They both have their strengths. Persona probably wins on party interaction and traditional plot structure but Nocturne wins in every other area. Depends what you're in the mood for at the time really.
If you play it on normal mode you probably won't struggle... much, there will probably be tears at Matador though.Man, you guys are bumming me out with this talk of Nocturne's difficulty and repetitiveness.
whalleywhat
Member
I always assumed people went on about Nocturne's difficulty because it was their first Megaten game. If you have experience fusing, Matador shouldn't be all that difficult. I think I beat him on my first or second try.
shadyspace
Banned
I played IMAGINE when it was in closed beta and had fun.
cj_iwakura
Member
Someone needs to start a 'best designed demon' thread to combat that Pokemon one.
We don't need a thread for that, because everybody already knows the answer.
shadyspace
Banned
yeah it's Angemon.
cj_iwakura
Member
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Yah. He's the rude awakening to players of easier RPGs who haven't had to think about so much to win.
Anthony?
Femmeworth
Banned
That's not a whole lot to go on but consider me (more) hyped. Is the protagonist a woman or a man with a pony tail? I need to know!