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Shoot the Core! - Gaf Shoot ‘em Up (aka Shooter/SHMUP) Reference Thread

D

DieNgamers

Member
Can someone explain the scoring system in Crimzon Clover for me? I don't know what the break rate or that green multiplyer (x2 or x4 ..pops up from time to time) does. It all seems so random to me or at least I haven't found a way to score high...at all. My best score was the result of not caring and just playing. That's not what I want, though!! Also do I get more points in break mode? Or is it a waste of..something I need to get higher break rate or scores? I don't see any connections but then again I'm a Shmup noob.

Not my screen because this is ridiculous:
81JvQa3iRoL.jpg
 
D

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
Dash Kappei said:
Raiden Legacy on iOS is pretty great and not like the Steam version trainwreck.
iCade support, dunno about mfi tho. Works fine with touch but you need to finetune it in the settings.
Click to expand...

Tizoc said:
What about their ports of R-Type 1 and 2?
Click to expand...

Very good. I own both, Blazing Star is another good one.

*edit
BUT I've never tried them on iOS10.
On my Mini2 and iOS8 they run well.
Read below my post about RAIDEN LEGACY.
 
D

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
xemumanic said:
Why? Other than the iCade/touch support.
Click to expand...

This is what I was going to say:
It doesn't have all the bugs and technical mess ups of the Steam version (like not running at proper fps and gamespeed being fucked up as well). If you're asking about the games themselves then those have always been fantastic.

HOWEVER I just tried the games for the 1st time on iOS10 and they are a MESS. Gamespeed is completely fucked up and so fast it's impossibly hard and also stutters like a motherfucker. At least on my 5s. Too bad because on iOS8 on my iPad Mini 2 it runs much much better.

Tizoc, I would stay away from it if other people are having a similar experience.
 
S

SoundPulse

Banned
DieNgamers said:
Can someone explain the scoring system in Crimzon Clover for me? I don't know what the break rate or that green multiplyer (x2 or x4 ..pops up from time to time) does. It all seems so random to me or at least I haven't found a way to score high...at all. My best score was the result of not caring and just playing. That's not what I want, though!! Also do I get more points in break mode? Or is it a waste of..something I need to get higher break rate or scores? I don't see any connections but then again I'm a Shmup noob.

Not my screen because this is ridiculous:
Click to expand...

Your break rate is increased faster when you kill enemies with lock-ons or by killing them point-blank. You want it to be as high as possible before you go into Break mode.

The green multiplier is your current score multiplier, which is determined by how many locks you have. Try to keep it around x9 as much as possible. Outside of Break, it's capped at something like x9.8, but entering break will increase the cap to x11.something, Double Break to x12.8. Double Break is your friend. The game will help you by making a sound when you have a full lock.

The Superplay DLC includes some demos and write-ups that will help quite a bit, if you don't mind spending some additional cash on it.
 
P

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Blue Revolver is damn good - http://www.cubed3.com/review/3156/1/blue-revolver-pc.html (My review)

Everything about Blue Revolver is well done. It nails the most important aspects, while looking and sounding fantastic. There's enough depth to the various sub-systems to keep experts entertained, but at the same time it doesn't put off or condescend newcomers. Within minutes, anyone can understand how it all works. The levels are thrilling, the bosses are tough, and the variety of weapons offers many different ways to play. This is a superb pick-up for STG fans, and there is even a demo available on the official website for those that want to try before they buy. It's well worth checking out.

8 / 10
Click to expand...
 
R

Remembrance

Member
BOTEC said:
Huh? "The Games on Demand version supports English." Refresh my memory but there was no English option in the disc version right? That's cool if they added it to the downloadable version.
Click to expand...

It's not adding an English option, it's being released in English for western regions for the first time.

(After the vanilla version of Bullet Soul was released in English last month - which makes no sense since this just makes that redundant.)
 
M

Momentary

Banned
Just echoing Pepsiman. Blue Revolver is legit. The game feels so good right when you start it up. The soundtrack just screams "new age arcade shoot'em up" to me. I love it. I'm in no way good at shoot'em ups either, but the way the game is set up it basically caters towards your skill level. The better you are the harder the game gets. It's definitely for people who are looking for an entry level shmup. The game is also well done technically. I mean just look at this 5K support!!

30236486796_1d1f2fa44f_o.png
Click to expand...
 
gunstarhero

gunstarhero

Member
Remembrance said:
It's not adding an English option, it's being released in English for western regions for the first time.

(After the vanilla version of Bullet Soul was released in English last month - which makes no sense since this just makes that redundant.)
Click to expand...

Oh wow - I'll need to pick this up assuming it runs on Xbone. Loved the original version back in the day.
 
@

@MUWANdo

Banned
gunstarhero said:
Oh wow - I'll need to pick this up assuming it runs on Xbone. Loved the original version back in the day.
Click to expand...

I think it should run on XB1, the reason they're releasing it in English now is to encourage MS to make it XB1-compatible and set a precedent for JP-only X360 games being made available for XB1.
 
B

Beckx

Member
someone should make a thread for Blue Revolver so it gets some love

it might not be a big draw but a thread helped Momodora IV get exposure to people who otherwise wouldn't have seen it

i would but i'm not good at making those kind of posts so it would be awful and unhelpful
 
R

Remembrance

Member
@MUWANdo said:
I think it should run on XB1, the reason they're releasing it in English now is to encourage MS to make it XB1-compatible and set a precedent for JP-only X360 games being made available for XB1.
Click to expand...

Guwange just got backwards compatibility, and it's pretty obscure and XBLA-only. Clearly Microsoft is looking at shmups (but yes, ones released in English).
 
T

The End

Member
Rayge said:
Just echoing Pepsiman. Blue Revolver is legit. The game feels so good right when you start it up. The soundtrack just screams "new age arcade shoot'em up" to me. I love it. I'm in no way good at shoot'em ups either, but the way the game is set up it basically caters towards your skill level. The better you are the harder the game gets. It's definitely for people who are looking for an entry level shmup. The game is also well done technically. I mean just look at this 5K support!!
Click to expand...

Reminds me a little bit of Super Galaxy Squadron EX, which was a pleasant surprise itself
 
T

TGMIII

Member
Blue Revolver is great from what I've played of it so far. I really like that bombs are made to be actively used for score rather than hoarded for end-stage bonuses. I think my only complaint is that due to the colour palette used I sometimes find the playfield to be a little muddy making it hard to notice what I was hit by but that may just be a me issue, I've yet to try out the alternative bullet colours to see if that makes a difference.

Soundtrack is also fantastic so far. Haven't heard all of the arrange tracks just yet.

The End said:
Reminds me a little bit of Super Galaxy Squadron EX, which was a pleasant surprise itself
Click to expand...

It's leagues ahead of Super Galaxy Squadron.
 
D

DieNgamers

Member
SoundPulse said:
Your break rate is increased faster when you kill enemies with lock-ons or by killing them point-blank. You want it to be as high as possible before you go into Break mode.

The green multiplier is your current score multiplier, which is determined by how many locks you have. Try to keep it around x9 as much as possible. Outside of Break, it's capped at something like x9.8, but entering break will increase the cap to x11.something, Double Break to x12.8. Double Break is your friend. The game will help you by making a sound when you have a full lock.

The Superplay DLC includes some demos and write-ups that will help quite a bit, if you don't mind spending some additional cash on it.
Click to expand...

Thank you, at first I didn't get it but after playing a while I think I understand! I have to build the break meter as fast as possible so I can lock, break and increase my multiplayer so I can shoot stuff more effectively.

The key thing I didn't know was that the multiplyer sustains longer if you shoot/get enough stars while in break mode. That way I can shoot stuff and really actually profit from the multiplyer. The moment of going into break mode seems to be key. I often waste it in situations with few enemies on screen so my multiplayer and break mode just vanish in thin air. Is that right, so far?

So knowing the level/enemy placement and not stressing out about the right moment of going into break mode seems important. At the moment my hands are totally cramping and my head is close to exploding from all the things I have to pay attention to. Phew!!!
 
D

danmaku

Member
Best moment to break is when you have a lot of enemies to destroy. An obvious spot is in stage 1 after the big tanks, when the game gets faster and throws a metric ton of enemies at you. You can even double break for maximum sensory overload!

Also, breaking cancels all bullets on screen so you can use it for survival as if it was a bomb. A classic beginner's mistake is holding on to your bombs and dying with a full stock. Don't do it and bomb like crazy!
 
S

SoundPulse

Banned
DieNgamers said:
Thank you, at first I didn't get it but after playing a while I think I understand! I have to build the break meter as fast as possible so I can lock, break and increase my multiplayer so I can shoot stuff more effectively.

The key thing I didn't know was that the multiplyer sustains longer if you shoot/get enough stars while in break mode. That way I can shoot stuff and really actually profit from the multiplyer. The moment of going into break mode seems to be key. I often waste it in situations with few enemies on screen so my multiplayer and break mode just vanish in thin air. Is that right, so far?

So knowing the level/enemy placement and not stressing out about the right moment of going into break mode seems important. At the moment my hands are totally cramping and my head is close to exploding from all the things I have to pay attention to. Phew!!!
Click to expand...

You'll naturally get a better handle on when and where you should break by just playing more. You'll also notice points where the game will cheekily run your break timer out, like after mini-bosses. In general, more enemies is better. Almost the entirety of the Mushihimesama stage Stage 3 is ripe for break chances, for example.

danmaku said:
Best moment to break is when you have a lot of enemies to destroy. An obvious spot is in stage 1 after the big tanks, when the game gets faster and throws a metric ton of enemies at you. You can even double break for maximum sensory overload!

Also, breaking cancels all bullets on screen so you can use it for survival as if it was a bomb. A classic beginner's mistake is holding on to your bombs and dying with a full stock. Don't do it and bomb like crazy!
Click to expand...

But also this. If the bullet cancel will save your life, absolutely break. Bombs/Break is almost an infinite resource in Crimzon Clover, while lives are not. The no-miss bonus is also absolutely huge.
 
D

DieNgamers

Member
Thanks guys!! I think I begin to understand. I love when games are as deep as this but seem so simple on the surface.

Of course I'm not really hunting scores yet but I want to implement that playstyle from the beginning in an organic way if possible. Using bombs would always be a trade I guess but it's still better than actually losing everything. :) I went there and shamelessly used the inifite continues to reach level 3 yesterday. Wtf is going on there, so damn crazy, haha. Using bombs will be my bread and butter once I try to achieve the same thing without "cheating".
 
S

SoundPulse

Banned
DieNgamers said:
Thanks guys!! I think I begin to understand. I love when games are as deep as this but seem so simple on the surface.

Of course I'm not really hunting scores yet but I want to implement that playstyle from the beginning in an organic way if possible. Using bombs would always be a trade I guess but it's still better than actually losing everything. :) I went there and shamelessly used the inifite continues to reach level 3 yesterday. Wtf is going on there, so damn crazy, haha. Using bombs will be my bread and butter once I try to achieve the same thing without "cheating".
Click to expand...

Stage 3 is something of a send-up to Mushihimesama's stage 4. Stage 3's the first wall for a lot of new players, so don't feel bad. Some people practice better by going through the game using credits, while others practice better by only using one credit over and over.

Maybe try a few goes at Boost Mode.

My favorite stage in Crimzon Clover is probably stage 4; I love the idea for the stage, and the boss is a fun rush when you nail down destroying all of its additional weapons quickly.
 
G

gngf123

Member
Beckx said:
someone should make a thread for Blue Revolver so it gets some love

it might not be a big draw but a thread helped Momodora IV get exposure to people who otherwise wouldn't have seen it

i would but i'm not good at making those kind of posts so it would be awful and unhelpful
Click to expand...

I tried: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1293371

I'm hardly good at these things either, but like you I thought it should get some more love.
 
D

Dinjoralo

Member
The End said:
*arches eyebrow*
Click to expand...

I mean... By my experience, Super Galaxy Squadron is pretty meh. It was pretty and all that, but it didn't feel like it had much to it. Like, there isn't even a reason to not just hold the shoot button the entire time, which just about every good shmup I've tried has had in some way.

Man, I would really like if Garegga would come to PC... Don't see it happening, with M2 never doing it before and all that. :/ At least we've got DDP, even if I've heard it ain't quite the bees knees.
 
T

Tain

Member
Dinjoralo said:
Man, I would really like if Garegga would come to PC... Don't see it happening, with M2 never doing it before and all that. :/ At least we've got DDP, even if I've heard it ain't quite the bees knees.
Click to expand...

It's a great game. Like, in the grand scheme of all things Cave it isn't my favorite, but it's a wonderful game and it'll still be one of the best games in the genre on Steam.
 
D

Dinjoralo

Member
Tain said:
It's a great game. Like, in the grand scheme of all things Cave it isn't my favorite, but it's a wonderful game and it'll still be one of the best games in the genre on Steam.
Click to expand...

Maybe I've been hanging around on the System11 STG forums too much, the guys there seem a lot more critical. Right now, they're pretty upset on a stream showing the slowdown being all wrong compared to the 360 release.
 
T

Tain

Member
ooh, in terms of port accuracy. I haven't been following the upcoming port much at all, bummer if it's significantly off.
 
T

tomwhite2004

Member
Dinjoralo said:
Maybe I've been hanging around on the System11 STG forums too much, the guys there seem a lot more critical. Right now, they're pretty upset on a stream showing the slowdown being all wrong compared to the 360 release.
Click to expand...

To be fair when people who have played the game extensively says the ketsupachi mode has roughly three times the slowdown of the Xbox360 version then there is something seriously wrong with it.....

I watched the stream and it seemed as if the mode was in constant slowdown, definitely way out of sync with the replays on youtube. At one point a guy mentioned how normally the player should have been at a point to gain a 1up but they didn't get to it for another 30 seconds or so in the pc version.
 
T

TGMIII

Member
Dinjoralo said:
Maybe I've been hanging around on the System11 STG forums too much, the guys there seem a lot more critical. Right now, they're pretty upset on a stream showing the slowdown being all wrong compared to the 360 release.
Click to expand...

You have to understand that most of those guys own all the CAVE games already, some even own multiple copies or the arcade boards themselves. One of the main selling points of DFK on PC is the inclusion of Ketsuipachi, for some reason people thought it would be excluded, so understandably people aren't happy to hear that it has issues.

Assuming it's an issue with the port and not the streamers PC that played it recently, there's also the issue of Degica continuing to give out keys early to people that aren't well versed in the games to tell if something is wrong. It would make sense if they were giving these out to youtubers/coverage sites that had a decent viewership but there are channels out there that get views in the 10s to low 100s somehow getting keys without issue. This has been a problem since Mushi.

Plus in general there's a fair amount of people on shmups.system11 that can't articulate themselves in any other way than whining, not to say that they're wrong about their complaints a lot of the time.

In general CAVE needs to get the steam ports as accurate as possible since it's one of the few ways the games are going to be able to be preserved in an accurate manner so it's important they get it right first time since they don't appear to be going back to fix issues like the slowdown problem with deathsmiles on certain stages.
 
D

Dinjoralo

Member
awwyeahgurrl said:
One of the main selling points of DFK on PC is the inclusion of Ketsuipachi, for some reason people thought it would be excluded
Click to expand...

Didn't Mushihimesama Futart on 360 have version 1.01 handed out by random chance? Cave has been super picky about handing out different versions of their games for whatever reason.

But yeah, this all makes what I'm seeing on there make a lot more sense. Maybe as a casul player, I should be taking what everyone says on there with a few grains of salt.
 
D

danmaku

Member
Mushi Futari 1.01 was a preorder/first print bonus, iirc.

Ketsuipachi having major problems sounds strange. Mushi had some problem too but they patched it very fast, hopefully they'll do the same with DFK.
 
T

TGMIII

Member
1.01 was free with the first print copies of Mushi 360 but then was never made available as paid DLC separately.

Assuming the rest of the port has no issues, for a causal player there's a lot of content in DFK that will keep you for a while. Personally I would wait until you hear back reports on how the steam port performs before buying it.

EDIT: Nick Palmer from Degica just commented on the worries about slowdown in Ketsuipachi and said he didn't have the same issue. Would still be safe to hold off until more versed players get their hands on it if it still worries you.

I think the launch price is around $25 so I'm not looking forward to what it's going to cost in the UK with sterling currently tanking.

Remembrance said:
According to a Degica post on system11, Deathsmiles slowdown is difficult to perfect because the game does not have a built-in timer. Consistent slowdown can only be easily implemented using a timer or consistent hardware, and the latter is obviously nonexistent for PCs.

And whether a Cave game had a timer or not seems to be fairly arbitrary...
Click to expand...

Yeah I remember blackbird talking about it back in April but there's not been any word since as far as I know. Personally I'm not super invested in it being fixed but just highlighting a current example of an issue that's currently in limbo. Understandably though, there's going to be some issues considering the porting procedure has taken the game from custom built arcade PCBs > console > PCs with various ranges of hardware. Can't say I envy anyone doing the work.
 
R

Remembrance

Member
awwyeahgurrl said:
In general CAVE needs to get the steam ports as accurate as possible since it's one of the few ways the games are going to be able to be preserved in an accurate manner so it's important they get it right first time since they don't appear to be going back to fix issues like the slowdown problem with deathsmiles on certain stages.
Click to expand...

According to a Degica post on system11, Deathsmiles slowdown is difficult to perfect because the game does not have a built-in timer. Consistent slowdown can only be easily implemented using a timer or consistent hardware, and the latter is obviously nonexistent for PCs.

And whether a Cave game had a timer or not seems to be fairly arbitrary...
 
T

tomwhite2004

Member
danmaku said:
Mushi had some problem too but they patched it very fast, hopefully they'll do the same with DFK.
Click to expand...

Initially there were problems with the framerate and a few general bugs which were patched out but those were related to stuttering and screen issues rather than slowdown emulation. FYI there are bosses in ultra mode with no slowdown at all in the pc port which whist being identified early on have still not been patched as likely cave simply don't know how if that and the Deathsmiles port are anything to go by.

I consider myself to be pretty casual too but its really disappointing that these games cant even gain parity with the xbox ports, really seems like there is no one left at cave with any clue on how to put this stuff together with any accuracy.

The other modes in DFK looked ok but I think like many other people here Ketsupachi was the real reason why I wanted to buy the game as it was region locked first time round on the xbox. Fingers crossed it was a problem with the streamers pc but given the track record of the last two releases am pretty pessimistic, would love to be proven wrong.
 
R

Remembrance

Member
tomwhite2004 said:
The other modes in DFK looked ok but I think like many other people here Ketsupachi was the real reason why I wanted to buy the game as it was region locked first time round on the xbox. Fingers crossed it was a problem with the streamers pc but given the track record of the last two releases am pretty pessimistic, would love to be proven wrong.
Click to expand...

Degica just posted again on system11. Further testing suggests that the streamer's PC was causing the slowdown.
 
M

Momentary

Banned
I'm actually a casual STG fan. As long as there isn't any frame stuttering I'm good. But Degica works really fast at pushing out updates when things like that arise.

I canticipate tell the difference as to where slowdown needso to be to match up with the original version of the game. Like I've said before it socks for people who are trying to use different platform versions to compete with one another for scoring.

But hopefully more original releases are on the horizon so that everyone can go into them nice and fresh without having to worry about that.
 
R

Remembrance

Member
Rayge said:
I canticipate tell the difference as to where slowdown needso to be to match up with the original version of the game. Like I've said before it socks for people who are trying to use different platform versions to compete with one another for scoring.
Click to expand...

Another factor is that the hardest bosses in these games are so intense that they may rely on slowdown to be even playable. Otherwise they really might require superhuman reflexes rather than just muscle memory.

But you and I will probably never even see those bosses, so...
 
M

Momentary

Banned
Remembrance said:
Another factor is that the hardest bosses in these games are so intense that they may rely on slowdown to be even playable. Otherwise they really might require superhuman reflexes rather than just muscle memory.

But you and I will probably never even see those bosses, so...
Click to expand...

You right about that. Unless I can credit feed.

I don't even know why I like shmups so much when I suckered so bad at the..

Edit:

So far the only 2 hitches I've had are the game defaulting to Japanese, which isn't a big deal, and the game kind of locking up when trying to put it into full screen. All I had to do was restart. So far so good. Damn it feels good to play this game. Great music, great sound effects, manic bullets everywhere, awesome mechanical designs. I love Cave. I hope this isn't there last game to come on the platform.

I can't speak on the slowdowns, but the game to me feels fantastic so far. I'm not an expert player so do not take what I say as me talking about the authenticity of where slowdowns are supposed to occur. I have a Titan X Pascal so I know for a fact if the game is slowing down it sure isn't from my hardware... unless the port is jacked up. But like I said, There doesn't seem to be any performance issues at all.
 
P

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
For anyone that picked up DFK Steam, check Black Label Arrange and see if the stage 5 boss is invisible.

It's happened to a couple people in the shmups forum.
 
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