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[woodypop]

That isn't the point. The point is that while Card will receive proceeds for his "contributions", not purchasing the game effects more then just Card, speaking specifically of profit.

It is the point.

Card is the liability here. His benefit from this situation is what is under debate. Why not put the onus on him and ask why doesn't he forsake his proceeds so that everyone else involved with the game doesn't suffer (from a theoretical boycott)?

I think placing that responsibility on the consumer is ridiculous.

 

[TommyT]

I like cock and I bought this game.....wat do I do now!!!???

:lol Oh lordy!

Spoiler

are you a girl!?

 

[Smash88]

Apparently this is a hard concept to grasp. I'm not sure why.

Apparently, you guys still don't understand what I was trying to say. He might be a looney, and is homophobic, but does that automatically constitute the fact that this money is solely going to the "hatred of homosexual fund". We don't know what this money will be used for.

Plus, most of the money is going towards the devs who made a great game. And I'm sure, opinions aside, that Chair and Epic have nothing to do with what this author thinks, nor support his "anti-homosexual rally".

To the guy who capslocked me, seriously dude, am I not entitled to my opinion and my fair share in posting without being yelled at? Instead comment back to me properly. I think we are all entitled to have debate/opinion on this topic...right?....right?

Oh and for the record, I am completely against what he thinks, and what he is striving for. So you don't think I'm taking his side or something.

EDIT: Honestly, some of you are taking this way to far, beyond what it should be.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Well, if you're going to boycott chair and epic and all the people involved with Shadow Complex(better boycott Microsoft too, they let it get published) you then have to avoid all Warner Bros. productions.

That doesn't really make sense. I'm boycotting the money given to this particular person by not giving him any money. I never bought another Chair game because all the other Chair games I've played have sucked.

I'd be boycotting the money Warner Bros. is giving to Orson Scott Card by...not seeing an Orson Scott Card movie. How does that not make sense to you?

 

[Kibbles]

Wow, I had no idea that POS Card was attached to this. Thanks for the heads up.

Yes, this will prevent me from buying. I was looking forward to this one, but I'll spend my points elsewhere.

Joke post?

I feel bad for Shadow Complex devs who need to, as a wise man once said, "put food on their family".

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

then companies will perhaps think before working with similar people in the future....


surely epic has gay employees? do they endorse having their rights taken away?

I work with a fantastic number of people who absolutely detest gay people, however I have no choice but to work with them. Sure, technically the company I work for could search for employees who have are bigots or who don't have issues with homosexuals, but is that realistic?

Of course it isn't.

I'm gay and I have to deal with it.

It is the point.

Card is the liability here. His benefit from this situation is what is under debate. Why not put the onus on him and ask why doesn't he forsake his proceeds so that everyone else involved with the game doesn't suffer (from a theoretical boycott)?

I think placing that responsibility on the consumer is ridiculous.

You must be one of those people who, instead of not watching something, demand it be taken off the air.

 

[Karma]

I like cock and I bought this game.....wat do I do now!!!???

Enjoy both. Life is short.

 

[Y2Kev]

If you believe that boycotts are an effective tool, then boycotting companies that license UE3 absolutely would help achieve the purpose of letting Epic / Chair know that association with Card is damaging and undesirable.
How can you reach any other conclusion?

Well, primarily because this is a decision that Chair made (before they were purchased by Epic). I don't know that I see Epic as responsible for the partnership with Card. I think boycotts only work when they are very targeted so that people can actually participate in them...I think a boycott of anyone who has anything to do with UE3 doesn't really target the Card relationship and makes the whole idea kind of a joke.

 

[seat]

Respect to those who do choose to boycott it.
Respect to those who disagreed politely.

No respect for the idiots making low-brow statements.

Well said. However we are vastly approaching the apex of pure stupidity in this thread, that being, "buying this game makes you ignorant and a bigot."

 

[NullPointer]

oh come the fuck on

This. This is also the stupidest idea and thread I've seen in a long while. And that's saying something.

 

[jeanRicK]

wow I'm pretty disappointed that Epic would choose to use his material...

Maybe they didnt know? Truth is I am a fervent supporter of gay rights but I really want the game too.

To be honest I'm probably going to end up buying the game anyway but I'll do everything I can to support the coming election in California by making sure my vote counts!

Are you disappointed about the man or his material?... And why would you be disappointed with Epic for choosing as they did? (I'm not even sure they had anything to do with the decision).

Please note, I'm not for or against you being disappointed.... just curious about the thought process behind it.

This. This is also the stupidest idea and thread I've seen in a long while. And that's saying something.

Well... it is the fundamental right of the OP to express said idea (whether it be stupid or brilliant) as is your right to think what u must of it

 

[Askani]

Epic wouldn't make a profit from the resale, Gamestop would .

So, still totally justified. :lol

Even worse than that. There's now one less copy of that game in the world. If someone can't buy it used and the gamestore is out of other used copies, they might buy it new instead.

 

[Iron Toaster]

No, I don't think so. Since he didn't have much involvement in it.

 

[Open Source]

This. This is also the stupidest idea and thread I've seen in a long while. And that's saying something.

Shades of Billy Madison. I now have a lower opinion of humanity.

 

[Mooreberg]

i would just like to add this.... i have just been reading about his campaign.... it was an organised and systematic lobby to to away the rights of people.

after this i will not send these game out to create potentially a new fan that he could profit from

I did the same thing after Mark Rein would not stop making derogatory remarks about the Wii.

 

[kylej]

If I could prove that a "homophobe" worked at your local power plant would you have your electricity disconnected? After all, paying your electric bill is what allows the company to pay this guy so in effect you are supporting him.

Not the same.

 

[Like the hat?]

nevermind.

 

[Big-E]

Apparently, you guys still don't understand what I was trying to say. He might be a looney, and is homophobic, but does that automatically constitute the fact that this money is solely going to the "hatred of homosexual fund". We don't know what this money will be used for.

Apart from being ignorant, we can add naive to your resume as well.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Incidentally, Epic probably had nothing to do with this.

Epic bought Chair mid-development of Shadow Complex, Microsoft Games is publishing.

Chair approached Card, asked to make a video game out of his novel series, and cut Card a paycheck. And more than likely he is getting royalties depending on the sales of the game. That's money that will end up in hands I don't want it to, so I'm not giving them my dollar.

NO ONE IS SAYING YOU CAN NOT BUY THE GAME. DIFFERENT PEOPLE PLACE PRINCIPLES DIFFERENTLY.

 

[Ninja Moomin]

Epic wouldn't make a profit from the resale, Gamestop would .

So, still totally justified. :lol

read what i actually wrote.

comprehension ftl.

 

[Cat in the Hat]

i would just like to add this.... i have just been reading about his campaign.... it was an organised and systematic lobby to to away the rights of people.

after this i will not send these game out to create potentially a new fan that he could profit from

You sheep

 

[dark10x]

then companies will perhaps think before working with similar people in the future....


surely epic has gay employees? do they endorse having their rights taken away?

You're absolutely insane.

That's all I have to say. :\

 

[hampig]

Do you realize how many people's livelihood and hard work went into this game? Many people who I'm sure are fine people. Dude, please.

Exactly. Why should I boycott something because one guy who kind of worked on the game is against gays? I'm gonna support the hell out of this game, its excellent, and it deserves all the attention it's getting. More, even.

 

[dark10x]

Exactly. Why should I boycott something because one guy who kind of worked on the game is against gays? I'm gonna support the hell out of this game, its excellent, and it deserves all the attention it's getting. More, even.

I wouldn't even say "kinda worked on" the game. He's probably as involved as Tom Clancy is in the creation of UbiSoft's games these days.

It's illogical to react in the fashion some folks here are.

 

[seat]

read what i actually wrote.

comprehension ftl.

I was making a joke, and you are truly stupid if you can't comprehend that.

Gamestop was the butt of the joke, but now you're the butt of the joke. So enjoy.

 

[Smash88]

Apart from being ignorant, we can add naive to your resume as well.

Oh boy. Yup, I'm completely ignorant and naive. You got me. You win. Anything else you want to add to my resume, while we're at it?

Only ignorant person I see here is you.

 

[Tiduz]

Yeah uhm, 70% of the games use unreal 3 engine too, good luck :lol

I like shadow complex alot, its a good game. Too bad a pos is attached to it i guess, but i still like the game

 

[kodt]

Exactly. Why should I boycott something because one guy who kind of worked on the game is against gays? I'm gonna support the hell out of this game, its excellent, and it deserves all the attention it's getting. More, even.

What is funny is that it is very possible that more money earned from this game goes directly to people and causes that support gay-rights than what would go to OSC. It may in fact have a net-positive effect for the gay-rights cause so by not buying this game when you otherwise would have you may in fact be hurting gay-rights.

 

[Big-E]

Oh boy. Yup, I'm completely ignorant and naive. You got me. You win. Anything else you want to add to my resume, while we're at it?

Only ignorant person I see here is you.

How am I ignorant? You are the one who doesn't understand the difference between opinion and this issue at hand and have the actual belief that we don't know what OSC does with his money. You are not even worth responding too anymore.

 

[shuri]

*pic of destroyed copy of Gears of War 2

:lol :lol yeah that sure showed him! Please destroy more stuff and take pics for us. Do it for the struggle!

 

[mr stroke]

:lol

this thread is amazing


Should art in general, stand on its own with out attachment to the artist?

 

[Costanza]

i would just like to add this.... i have just been reading about his campaign.... it was an organised and systematic lobby to to away the rights of people.

after this i will not send these game out to create potentially a new fan that he could profit from

15 minutes later and I still can't believe you did this

 

[Boombloxer]

Do you realize how many people's livelihood and hard work went into this game? Many people who I'm sure are fine people. Dude, please.

This. There are ways to protest that don't involve boycotting games.

I hear he writes books.

 

[Linkhero1]

i would just like to add this.... i have just been reading about his campaign.... it was an organised and systematic lobby to to away the rights of people.

after this i will not send these game out to create potentially a new fan that he could profit from

:lol

You sure showed them.

 

[Tiduz]

Hell probably regret it later on, as gears 2 is a great game too, way too waste money :lol

 

[woodypop]

You must be one of those people who, instead of not watching something, demand it be taken off the air.

I don't understand how you arrive at that conclusion.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying the game should not be boycotted because in trying to "hurt" Card, other people will be "hurt" as well. The consumer should bite the bullet for the sake of the other people, even if they don't agree with Card.

I'm saying there is another solution (that doesn't unfairly place the onus on the consumer): Card removes himself as a beneficiary so that the other employees don't suffer the backlash against him. At least then he'd be taking responsibility.

 

[Smash88]

How am I ignorant? You are the one who doesn't understand the difference between opinion and this issue at hand and have the actual belief that we don't know what OSC does with his money. You are not even worth responding too anymore.

You take small things out of the big picture. You still don't comprehend what you are doing by boycotting this game, yes it may be against someone who is anti-homosexual. What about the devs? You are saying they are also anti-homosexual as well? Now that is what makes you ignorant, in case you missed my point.

Good, then I guess we are done here. I hate arguing with people.

 

[seat]

:lol

You sure showed them.

Has Card even played an Xbox 360? I wonder if he even knows what Gears of War is.

 

[Linkhero1]

Has Card even played an Xbox 360? I wonder if he even knows what Gears of War is.

He probably doesn't know what an Xbox 360 is :lol

 

[kodt]

Not the same.

ok, let's change it then: OSC owns your local power plant.

 

[VALIS]

There's a difference and trying to obfuscate it with a overly broad example doesn't work. The difference between "rewarding Michael Vick" by being an NFL fan and buying an Orson Scott Card-based game is pretty massive.

There's a single degree of separation between Shadow Complex and Orson Scott Card.

How?

Does the NFL promote animal abuse? No.
Does Shadow Complex promote homophobia? No.

Would Michael Vick gain financially in part from my support of the NFL? Yes.
Would OSC gain financially in part from my support of Shadow Complex? Yes.

I am not happy to see either of them get any of my money, but as I said, it's a question of where to draw the line. I personally wouldn't be comfortable being such a raging fucking hypocrite as to suggest I wouldn't support Shadow Complex because OSC will get a fraction of my money when every day I am drowning in products and services which support abhorrent people and opinions in the same "down the line" sort of way.

 

[MechaX]

I personally boycott the Dragon Quest series because the composer, Koichi Sugiyama, denies the Japanese Empire's guilt in the Nanking Massacre, and he publicly advertises/advocates his position.

After reading all thirteen pages of the thread, here's an example of something I was thinking of along side many of the stances on the subject; would/should a situation like this necessarily stop at Card alone? Sure, the main difference here is that Card actually influences the situation at hand on a daily basis, but this perspective of video game purchases is both new to me and actually interests me (I have never really put much of any thought into boycotting a video game before hand, as I usually try to keep my personal beliefs pretty divorced from gaming entertainment and their leaders).

As for the debate at hand, I'm personally leaning more at a utilitarian approach. It would be different if Card had the greatest amount of involvement in the game and actually used it as a means to not only propagate his anti-gay philosophy, but also use it as a primary money maker. But it's not, and his involvement really seems to be more second-hand at this point (as he didn't even write the script). We can speculate as to whether or not the Chair employees share the same views, but I have seen nothing that leads to a conclusive statement on the matter. And depriving an entire team of individuals who put more sweat and blood into it than Card ever did just due to his actions does not sit that well with me.

 

[seat]

Walt Disney was a thought to be anti-Semitic. Should we boycott Pixar movies as well? That makes about as much sense as boycotting Epic games over this issue.

 

[Grecco]

i would just like to add this.... i have just been reading about his campaign.... it was an organised and systematic lobby to to away the rights of people.

after this i will not send these game out to create potentially a new fan that he could profit from

Do you feel better?

 

[sn00zer]

Ender's Game is awesome and if you dont think it would at least in part make a great videogame you are blind:lol
Boycotts are great if your people are being beaten in the streets by police, are shot with fire hoses, get kicked out of most buisnesses and arent allowed to go to school...........oh and I guess if people wont let you marry.

 

[joelseph]

This. This is also the stupidest idea and thread I've seen in a long while. And that's saying something.

What's that saying exactly?

 

[Ardorx]

I'm going to have to Boycott Gary Witta new film, The Book of Eli because it's produced by Warner Bros. who plan to pay Card a ton of money once Empire: The Film comes out. Clearly Warner Bros. supports bigotry and by association so does Gary Witta. I will also never watch another Christopher Nolan film made at Warner ever again.

 

[Big-E]

You take small things out of the big picture. You still don't comprehend what you are doing by boycotting this game, yes it may be against someone who is anti-homosexual. What about the devs? You are saying they are also anti-homosexual as well? Now that is what makes you ignorant, in case you missed my point.

Good, then I guess we are done here. I hate arguing with people.

Not worth getting banned for these idiots. If you can't see how giving money to the people who made this game gives money to Card and why people would have problems with this I feel sorry for you because you are disconnected from reality. And to the people saying don't buy his books, what about the poor copy editor or print manufacturer who physically make the books? What about them, they deserve to make a living too for their work? Chair knew who this guy was and what they were getting into and for the record, I already said I bought the game before I knew he was involved.

I'm going to have to Boycott Gary Witta new film, The Book of Eli because it's produced by Warner Bros. who plan to pay Card a ton of money once Empire: The Film comes out. Clearly Warner Bros. supports bigotry and by association so does Gary Witta. I will also never watch another Christopher Nolan film made at Warner ever again.

Gary Witta -> Book of Eli -> Warner Bros -> Empire -> Card

is not the same as

Shadow Complex -> Chair=Card

Card is directly profiting from this game. Card is not directly profiting from me seeing the Book of Eli.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

I'm saying there is another solution (that doesn't unfairly place the onus on the consumer): Card removes himself as a beneficiary so that the other employees don't suffer the backlash against him. At least then he'd be taking responsibility.

And how realistic is that? Do you really think that is going to happen? Don't be ridiculous, Card is a moron, but he isn't an idiot. He will not remove any beneficiary title he has while he still has the ability to make money.

Is it fair?

Of course not.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Should we boycott Shadow Complex?

You're asking the wrong question. If you cannot, in good conscience, give money to Epic/Chair/OSC, then don't. If you want to raise awareness that OSC contributed to this game, then do. But it's not something that this community as a whole should feel obligated to either do or not do.

I must admit that I know next to nothing about Card personally, other than he is Mormon and campaigned for the prohibition of gay marriage (which, in this country, he does have the right to do). But even if he is as hateful as he appears to be from this thread, I still am glad that I bought this game, and I'm enjoying it very much. And honestly I somewhat resent the implication that I am a bad person for doing so.

By all means - follow your conscience, but don't suggest that I should follow yours too.