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SimCity code includes 20 minute force shutdown timer for offline play

R

Rebel Leader

THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Des0lar said:
Local radio stations here where I live have been pickin this story up and commented on how disappointed gamers are and how EA has fucked up. It will affect future sales, I have no doubt about that.
Click to expand...

I know mine will say something similar

their quotes:

"our powel level is over 9000"
"like mass effect, we don't give you a choice"
"is it really that time agian?"
 
B

BobLoblaw

Banned
I think the most important question to come out of all of this is when do we get to vote for EA being the worse company again?
 
B

bill0527

Member
I don't understand the issue with this complaint.

I thought it was pretty typical for online games to boot you after so many minutes of inactivity.

I know World of Warcraft has had this for years, and several other MMOs i have played.
 
N

NoirVisage

Banned
xenist said:
Polygon of course. Baghdad Bob, sorry I meant Goes, is on it.
Click to expand...
This dude again -__- i guess its par for the course when he's so clearly unbiased.


edit:
alr1ght said:
giesloveseazgkep.jpg
Click to expand...
OH WOW! :eek:
 
G

Goldmund

Member
bill0527 said:
I don't understand the issue with this complaint.

I thought it was pretty typical for online games to boot you after so many minutes of inactivity.

I know World of Warcraft has had this for years, and several other MMOs i have played.
Click to expand...
It's difficult to argue your game needs to be online to function ("complex server-side calculations) if it can run just fine for 20 minutes unconnected; the twenty minutes suggest that it's only booting you because they didn't want players to lose more than 20 minutes of unsaved progress.
 
MMaRsu

MMaRsu

Banned
bill0527 said:
I don't understand the issue with this complaint.

I thought it was pretty typical for online games to boot you after so many minutes of inactivity.

I know World of Warcraft has had this for years, and several other MMOs i have played.
Click to expand...

This aint no MMO son
 
F

FartOfWar

Banned
KingItachi said:
Sorry it was not.
Click to expand...

Wrong thread for it, but is there one where detractors explain the issue they had with it other than that it wasn't 3? I felt it had some of the best systems design the series has seen (outside of 3), easily the best art direction of the entire franchise.
 
N

Nokterian

Member
bill0527 said:
I don't understand the issue with this complaint.

I thought it was pretty typical for online games to boot you after so many minutes of inactivity.

I know World of Warcraft has had this for years, and several other MMOs i have played.
Click to expand...

This is not a MMO for crying out loud. smh...
 
S

Skyzard

Banned
MMaRsu said:
This aint no MMO son
Click to expand...

And that is still a huge understatement.



Don't have 5 yet, watched loads of Day9 videos on it, been playing Sim City 4 again and loving it. If only it didn't burn down my macbook pro (seriously weird shit just now). Really do want this though, I mean you'd expect them to fix pathing right, it's not like they can even leave that be.

The city-size restriction is a killer though as is the online a bit, shit...hopefully crackers can help out a bit there. Will probably wait a while since I'm broke - but I'm curious if anyone got this running well on a MBP? My desktop's 4870x2 died quite recently.

Currently using this laptop which is a 2.66 c2duo, 4GB RAM, 9600M GT 256 MB ... any ideas if it will still look good and run stable or am I better off with the crashing and visuals of 4?

Is the pathing bad for everyone? I don't see traffic that shitty in all videos, despite pretty standard cities (although they weren't that thorough looks on the workings of the city) yet loads of complaints as well so of course something is up.

So many small changes in this new one that I like though, I imagine it would still be a lot of fun.
 
E

EmCeeGramr

Member
FartOfWar said:
Wrong thread for it, but is there one where detractors explain the issue they had with it other than that it wasn't 3? I felt it had some of the best systems design the series has seen (outside of 3), easily the best art direction of the entire franchise.
Click to expand...

Go to the DmC thread in Community and ask. It usually boils down to the levels being pretty but boring in layout, hate for the platforming, bosses being incredibly easy and dumbed down, dislike for the color-coded enemies, and the feeling that the combat system doesn't require any kind of expertise or skill because you can get massive scores and easy kills with a few simple moves over and over.
 
S

Skyzard

Banned
EmCeeGramr said:
Go to the DmC thread in Community and ask. It usually boils down to the levels being pretty but boring in layout, hate for the platforming, bosses being incredibly easy and dumbed down, dislike for the color-coded enemies, and the feeling that the combat system doesn't require any kind of expertise or skill because you can get massive scores and easy kills with a few simple moves over and over.
Click to expand...

Even on harder difficulties?
 
J

Jooney

Member
Sharp said:
This whole saga has just been depressing. SimCity is the franchise that got me into games, then into programming, into CS, into my current career. Will Wright is my fucking hero. He's a legitimate genius and, like Carmack or Miyamoto, one of the few elder statesmen of videogames who deserves the accolades. Hell, I even liked Spore (come at me bros, the procedural technology it created should have been a game-changer--the biggest problem with the game was that it wanted to be a game). But seeing what EA's done to Maxis makes me sick to my stomach.

SimCity used to be something magical, something visionary and special. It wasn't like other single-player games, where you were just playing out someone else's story, or multiplayer ones, which were about direct competition. Playing SimCity, by contrast, was almost like dreaming--a sandbox where you could explore crazy "what ifs" and learn about the world without suffering the real-world consequences of fucking up. That was pretty much Maxis's modus operandi. I'm not saying they weren't a business, because of course they were. I'm not saying they were the only ones making sandbox games, because we all know that's not true either. But if you read up on the early history of the company (and Wright in particular) they were always about a lot more than just maximizing profits. They didn't always succeed (I was never able to get into SimIsle, personally), but they always dreamed big, and when they did succeed they hit it out of the park.

That was back when the Maxis brand was one of the most respected in the industry. Now they're just another cog in the not-terribly-efficient EA machine, spewing out garbage products on the back of nostalgia and overblown hype and hoping nobody notices that there's nothing underneath. I think they are doing long-term, irreparable damage to the games market and the perception of the games industry by the population at large. Next time Congress has a hearing about how terrible video games are, who the fuck is going to have the balls to try to point to SimCity as an example of how amazing they can be? I wouldn't.

And it's not just the DRM, either--between the "social" elements, the number fudging, and the lies about GlassBox, I'm seriously questioning whether anyone left at EA even understands what people want out of SimCity in the first place. SimCity is precisely the sort of game where really amazing underlying core simulation mechanics, AI, scalability, and so on--the engine itself--is way more important than the art, assets, graphics or any sort of online connectivity. The silver lining is that since they fucked up on every single one of those aspects, there's reason to hope that their failure to deliver a proper SimCity title was solely the product of gross incompetence of the highest magnitude, and not an indication that Maxissome EA project managers that happen to be working on SimCity don't understand what makes one of the oldest, most beloved, easiest to explain franchises in all of video games work.

I honestly don't know if EA's bottom line is going to be affected for this particular game, and I'm sure they don't care about me personally at all. But let's suppose for a moment that piracy would have had a huge effect on their sales for this title (I don't really think that's true, since SimCity is one of those games that transcends "normal" gamer culture, but let's pretend). Isn't it worth sacrificing some of those sales to produce dedicated fans of the series? To inspire generations of children to be passionate about games, to become consumers and producers, to educate the masses about how games can be both fun and educational, viscerally satisfying and outlets for creativity? I think so. Clearly, EA doesn't.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to give a shout out to this post. Love this kind of passion.
 
B

bill0527

Member
Jesus fuck people.

I'm not a goddamn Ea Shill and I've never played SimCity.

I thought it was an online game whereas many people all get plugged into one server, and most of those types of games have some kind of auto-boot feature so that server load/capacity can be managed and not disrupted by people who decide to just log in, go take a shit, do laundry, and work a crossword puzzle. Its a feature that basically says, 'ok if you're going to bother logging in, then please bother to play the game, and if you're not going to do that, we are going to boot you in order to make room for someone else'. I don't see anything nefarious about that at all.

Now, I honestly don't know if this is how SimCity is set up. That's why I was asking the question. I was not defending EA or making any other point.

Christ there is some serious hostility out there right now over this game.
 
O

orznge

Banned
bill0527 said:
Jesus fuck people.

I'm not a goddamn Ea Shill and I've never played SimCity.

I thought it was an online game whereas many people all get plugged into one server, and most of those types of games have some kind of auto-boot feature so that server load/capacity can be managed and not disrupted by people who decide to just log in, go take a shit, do laundry, and work a crossword puzzle. Its a feature that basically says, 'ok if you're going to bother logging in, then please bother to play the game, and if you're not going to do that, we are going to boot you in order to make room for someone else'. I don't see anything nefarious about that at all.

Now, I honestly don't know if this is how SimCity is set up. That's why I was asking the question. I was not defending EA or making any other point.

Christ there is some serious hostility out there right now over this game.
Click to expand...

lol
 
L

LumpOfCole

Member
I remember the heated debates that argued whether or not the original Guild Wars happened to be an MMO. The internet was firmly split down the middle in describing it as an MMO.

Guild Wars was infinitely more of an MMO than the new SimCity will ever be.
 
A

Acorn

Member
Syphon Filter said:
who is that arthur guy that people keep talking about?
Click to expand...

Arthur Gies. The long and sort of it is, he condescended people for questioning the always online crap. He was proved wrong, he doubled down by slightly amending what he meant to save face.

Hilarity ensues, Arthur sulks.
 
S

Skyzard

Banned
bill0527 said:
Jesus fuck people.

I'm not a goddamn Ea Shill and I've never played SimCity.

I thought it was an online game whereas many people all get plugged into one server, and most of those types of games have some kind of auto-boot feature so that server load/capacity can be managed and not disrupted by people who decide to just log in, go take a shit, do laundry, and work a crossword puzzle. Its a feature that basically says, 'ok if you're going to bother logging in, then please bother to play the game, and if you're not going to do that, we are going to boot you in order to make room for someone else'. I don't see anything nefarious about that at all.

Now, I honestly don't know if this is how SimCity is set up. That's why I was asking the question. I was not defending EA or making any other point.

Christ there is some serious hostility out there right now over this game.
Click to expand...

This isn't 20 minutes of inactivity though, it's 20 minutes of no connection to EA. I'm still not clear why it even exists if you need to connect to EA to login and start anyway, although I don't have it and no one confirmed if you needed to.

Could have just let you carry on playing, saved the file locally, uploaded it next time you connected.
 
R

Rebel Leader

THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Skyzard said:
This isn't 20 minutes of inactivity though, it's 20 minutes of no connection to EA. I'm still not clear why it even exists if you need to connect to EA to login and start anyway, although I don't have it and no one confirmed if you needed to.

Could have just let you carry on playing, saved the file locally, uploaded it next time you connected.
Click to expand...

I just attempted a disconnect from guild wars 2 and guess what? It immediately told me I disconnected from the server and sent me back to the character selection screen. Now that's a MMO.
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
bill0527 said:
Jesus fuck people.

I'm not a goddamn Ea Shill and I've never played SimCity.

I thought it was an online game whereas many people all get plugged into one server, and most of those types of games have some kind of auto-boot feature so that server load/capacity can be managed and not disrupted by people who decide to just log in, go take a shit, do laundry, and work a crossword puzzle. Its a feature that basically says, 'ok if you're going to bother logging in, then please bother to play the game, and if you're not going to do that, we are going to boot you in order to make room for someone else'. I don't see anything nefarious about that at all.

Now, I honestly don't know if this is how SimCity is set up. That's why I was asking the question. I was not defending EA or making any other point.

Christ there is some serious hostility out there right now over this game.
Click to expand...

It's the exact opposite. When you have been playing *off* the server perfectly well for 20 minutes, it stops letting you play. Arbitrarily.
 
A

avaya

Member
You do realise this whole saga was a test-run to prepare us for Always-Connected on next gen consoles. This is why EA is trying to deflect and obfuscate.
 
P

PedroLumpy

Member
bill0527 said:
Now, I honestly don't know if this is how SimCity is set up. That's why I was asking the question.
Click to expand...

If you're asking a question, you should try using question marks. Or phrasing in the form of a question. Or something other than this.

bill0527 said:
I don't understand the issue with this complaint.

I thought it was pretty typical for online games to boot you after so many minutes of inactivity.

I know World of Warcraft has had this for years, and several other MMOs i have played.
Click to expand...
 
P

Partition

Banned
bill0527 said:
Jesus fuck people.

I'm not a goddamn Ea Shill and I've never played SimCity.

I thought it was an online game whereas many people all get plugged into one server, and most of those types of games have some kind of auto-boot feature so that server load/capacity can be managed and not disrupted by people who decide to just log in, go take a shit, do laundry, and work a crossword puzzle. Its a feature that basically says, 'ok if you're going to bother logging in, then please bother to play the game, and if you're not going to do that, we are going to boot you in order to make room for someone else'. I don't see anything nefarious about that at all.

Now, I honestly don't know if this is how SimCity is set up. That's why I was asking the question. I was not defending EA or making any other point.

Christ there is some serious hostility out there right now over this game.
Click to expand...

The difference is, if you try to play WoW offline, it won't work at all. If you disable SimCity's timer, the game works the same as it would online because all the simulation is done locally.
 
F

Fine Ham Abounds

Member
I've been playing catchup on all of this. Truly one of the most epic disasters I've had a chance to watch unfold, and with so many layers and side stories.

Much of the current state of gaming in a nutshell.
 
N

nbthedude

Member
FartOfWar said:
Wrong thread for it, but is there one where detractors explain the issue they had with it other than that it wasn't 3? I felt it had some of the best systems design the series has seen (outside of 3), easily the best art direction of the entire franchise.
Click to expand...

I tried to discuss it with those guys in the official thread until I gave up due to all the drive by comments filled with raging hyperbole.

Essentially, most reasonable DMC fans seem to agree with you. They do not think it is as great as 3, and many complained about scoring inflation, but most articulate posters saw it as a game that could be built on. Personally, it is my favorite game in the series, but I just enjoy the core mechanics and don't care about the "depth" thst comes from score chasing (I would even debate the term "depth" in that context). Those who result in hyperbolic criticism like saying it "ruined the franchise" were primarily just there for the drama.

The internet backlash against DmC was actually one of the first times I thought the enthusiast backlash reached a level of the absurd. Usually, I just see it as a healthy counterweight to the media and company driven hype machine that makes practically every new AAA release the "new standard" for a genre without any real critical perspective at all.
 
J

jWILL253

Banned
I don't think we're just a minority here. This petition on Change.org has over 72,000 signatures on it. I don't know if it'll make the slightest difference to EA, but if shows that people actually care.

https://www.change.org/petitions/el...ways-online-drm-from-simcity-and-future-games

Now, the REAL issue here is the consumer rights aspect of this debacle. This clusterfuck has gotten big enough to where one could make an educated guess that EA might have broken some American consumer laws here. Fraud? False Advertising? At the very least, we should revisit the legal aspect of the digital market as to whether or not people have the right to refunds.

In fact, Jason Evangelho from Forbes.com has created a petition on Whitehouse.gov for the Obama Administration to institute a industry-wide return & refund policy for games that use DRM.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...te-servers-and-drm-function-properly/nMy1wrtC

That's the biggest issue here. Amongst all the lies from EA & Maxis, amongst all the problems in SimCity, here's the biggest thing: they are keeping our money, and there is nothing we can do about it...
 
S

smokeandmirrors

Banned
jWILL253 said:
I don't think we're just a minority here. This petition on Change.org has over 72,000 signatures on it. I don't know if it'll make the slightest difference to EA, but if shows that people actually care.

https://www.change.org/petitions/el...ways-online-drm-from-simcity-and-future-games

Now, the REAL issue here is the consumer rights aspect of this debacle. This clusterfuck has gotten big enough to where one could make an educated guess that EA might have broken some American consumer laws here. Fraud? False Advertising? At the very least, we should revisit the legal aspect of the digital market as to whether or not people have the right to refunds.

In fact, Jason Evangelho from Forbes.com has created a petition on Whitehouse.gov for the Obama Administration to institute a industry-wide return & refund policy for games that use DRM.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...te-servers-and-drm-function-properly/nMy1wrtC

That's the biggest issue here. Amongst all the lies from EA & Maxis, amongst all the problems in SimCity, here's the biggest thing: they are keeping our money, and there is nothing they can do about it...
Click to expand...


Shame that there aren't many consumer protection laws here.

I'd be more interested to see if the Eurozone decides to come down on EA. They are stringently pro consumer.
 
B

benao

Neo Member
Sharp said:
This whole saga has just been depressing. SimCity is the franchise that got me into games, then into programming, into CS, into my current career. Will Wright is my fucking hero. He's a legitimate genius and, like Carmack or Miyamoto, one of the few elder statesmen of videogames who deserves the accolades. Hell, I even liked Spore (come at me bros, the procedural technology it created should have been a game-changer--the biggest problem with the game was that it wanted to be a game). But seeing what EA's done to Maxis makes me sick to my stomach.

SimCity used to be something magical, something visionary and special. It wasn't like other single-player games, where you were just playing out someone else's story, or multiplayer ones, which were about direct competition. Playing SimCity, by contrast, was almost like dreaming--a sandbox where you could explore crazy "what ifs" and learn about the world without suffering the real-world consequences of fucking up. That was pretty much Maxis's modus operandi. I'm not saying they weren't a business, because of course they were. I'm not saying they were the only ones making sandbox games, because we all know that's not true either. But if you read up on the early history of the company (and Wright in particular) they were always about a lot more than just maximizing profits. They didn't always succeed (I was never able to get into SimIsle, personally), but they always dreamed big, and when they did succeed they hit it out of the park.

That was back when the Maxis brand was one of the most respected in the industry. Now they're just another cog in the not-terribly-efficient EA machine, spewing out garbage products on the back of nostalgia and overblown hype and hoping nobody notices that there's nothing underneath. I think they are doing long-term, irreparable damage to the games market and the perception of the games industry by the population at large. Next time Congress has a hearing about how terrible video games are, who the fuck is going to have the balls to try to point to SimCity as an example of how amazing they can be? I wouldn't.

And it's not just the DRM, either--between the "social" elements, the number fudging, and the lies about GlassBox, I'm seriously questioning whether anyone left at EA even understands what people want out of SimCity in the first place. SimCity is precisely the sort of game where really amazing underlying core simulation mechanics, AI, scalability, and so on--the engine itself--is way more important than the art, assets, graphics or any sort of online connectivity. The silver lining is that since they fucked up on every single one of those aspects, there's reason to hope that their failure to deliver a proper SimCity title was solely the product of gross incompetence of the highest magnitude, and not an indication that Maxissome EA project managers that happen to be working on SimCity don't understand what makes one of the oldest, most beloved, easiest to explain franchises in all of video games work.

I honestly don't know if EA's bottom line is going to be affected for this particular game, and I'm sure they don't care about me personally at all. But let's suppose for a moment that piracy would have had a huge effect on their sales for this title (I don't really think that's true, since SimCity is one of those games that transcends "normal" gamer culture, but let's pretend). Isn't it worth sacrificing some of those sales to produce dedicated fans of the series? To inspire generations of children to be passionate about games, to become consumers and producers, to educate the masses about how games can be both fun and educational, viscerally satisfying and outlets for creativity? I think so. Clearly, EA doesn't.
Click to expand...

I feel you. I wonder if EA will blame fans at some point.
 
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