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SimCity code includes 20 minute force shutdown timer for offline play

If a PC game exists, it can be hacked or cracked. If you say a game can't be cracked, someone will immediately go and prove you wrong. A more-PC (in more ways than one) Rule 34, if you will. That's Gies' big misunderstanding; the capacity and drive of PC players.

Now I wish that Rock Band Blitz was on PC for the same reason.
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
Wow. Just wow. This just keeps getting worse and worse for EA. At this point I wouldn't doubt if they find something in the code to just enable offline saves.
 

Aselith

Member
Fuck those guys! How dare they modify their own code for purposes of their choosing! They have no right! Fuck EA! etc..

Seems to me that you'd all be happier if you just ignore the whole fucking thing and find something else to do. I can literally hear the GAF blood pressure rising every time there's a new SimCity revelation.

Let it go, it is what it is. It's not the first time a reboot has fucked a franchise.
*cough* DMC *cough*

Ignoring it is the worst thing to do. Make as much noise as possible and it will become a dinosaur of a more draconian time like StarForce hopefully.

Also, from what I hear DMC is actually not bad, certainly not on the level of this turd.
 

Toppot

Member
At this point EA either need to come clean and make the game offline, or remove SimCity 5 and just pretend it never existed.

People respect openness and honesty EA, you are the antonym of this.

EDIT:
Next it will come out that the cities are so small because they didn't want people's save files taking up too much space on their servers...
 

Resilient

Member
Ignoring it is the worst thing to do. Make as much noise as possible and it will become a dinosaur of a more draconian time like StarForce hopefully.

Also, from what I hear DMC is actually not bad, certainly not on the level of this turd.

Ignore him. Those types of opinions are literally the worst ones to have. If we let a lot of shit in our day to day lives go, we'd be a lot worse off. Fact is, people enjoy video games, and those same people don't want the SimCity treatment to become a standard. Simply because doing so will have an adverse effect on the rest of the industry. Which is why, as you said, we have to make as much noise as possible.
 

dmr87

Member
Also, from what I hear DMC is actually not bad, certainly not on the level of this turd.

Not even in the same league, I was skeptical about the game before I played it but in the end I really enjoyed the gameplay. I still don't care about the story and the overall re-design of Dante etc but the game works and plays very well.
 

Usobuko

Banned
This is still not reported enough on 'mainstream' gaming websites, the dent it make is so minuscule compared to say Capcom on disc dlc.

What exactly are they afraid of?
 

Skyzard

Banned
Can you load your city without connecting as well or is this purely if you are already in-game and connection drops?

Can you play offline for longer than 20 minutes, then while you are in-game reconnect to the servers to save?

Shame they'll patch it out.

If they manage to get rid of the tiny city limit I will pick it up provided there are mods to disable only only, including at startup. Been playing Sim City 4, it's good and all but 5 looks so pretty...also hopefully it doesn't crash as much -__-
 

dmr87

Member
This is still not reported enough on 'mainstream' gaming websites, the dent it make is so minuscule compared to say Capcom on disc dlc.

What exactly are they afraid of?

Friends at work has no idea about any of this except that the game didn't work well at launch when it came to queues/broken servers.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Wow. Just wow. This just keeps getting worse and worse for EA. At this point I wouldn't doubt if they find something in the code to just enable offline saves.
I'm pretty sure it's already there. A couple days after launch, I remember quitting the game while it was offline, and it didn't give me that "sync" message. When I signed on the next day, all my progress was still there, the city was exactly the way I had left it... offline. I'm sure that the game actually saves your city locally, it just uploads it to the cloud when you exit, and forces the program to only open the online save the next time it starts.
 

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
This is still not reported enough on 'mainstream' gaming websites, the dent it make is so minuscule compared to say Capcom on disc dlc.

What exactly are they afraid of?

Talk bad about a product from the world's largest publisher -> won't get games, preview builds, interviews, press materials in general etc etc -> less content for your website ->less clicks for your website -> site dies.

A wonderful symbiotic relationship where gaming sites are nothing but regurgitating pr/marketing mouthpieces for the mega publishers.

Of course, I'm totally talking out of my ass I'm sure in the the real world it's even worse.
 

Sharp

Member
This whole saga has just been depressing. SimCity is the franchise that got me into games, then into programming, into CS, into my current career. Will Wright is my fucking hero. He's a legitimate genius and, like Carmack or Miyamoto, one of the few elder statesmen of videogames who deserves the accolades. Hell, I even liked Spore (come at me bros, the procedural technology it created should have been a game-changer--the biggest problem with the game was that it wanted to be a game). But seeing what EA's done to Maxis makes me sick to my stomach.

SimCity used to be something magical, something visionary and special. It wasn't like other single-player games, where you were just playing out someone else's story, or multiplayer ones, which were about direct competition. Playing SimCity, by contrast, was almost like dreaming--a sandbox where you could explore crazy "what ifs" and learn about the world without suffering the real-world consequences of fucking up. That was pretty much Maxis's modus operandi. I'm not saying they weren't a business, because of course they were. I'm not saying they were the only ones making sandbox games, because we all know that's not true either. But if you read up on the early history of the company (and Wright in particular) they were always about a lot more than just maximizing profits. They didn't always succeed (I was never able to get into SimIsle, personally), but they always dreamed big, and when they did succeed they hit it out of the park.

That was back when the Maxis brand was one of the most respected in the industry. Now they're just another cog in the not-terribly-efficient EA machine, spewing out garbage products on the back of nostalgia and overblown hype and hoping nobody notices that there's nothing underneath. I think they are doing long-term, irreparable damage to the games market and the perception of the games industry by the population at large. Next time Congress has a hearing about how terrible video games are, who the fuck is going to have the balls to try to point to SimCity as an example of how amazing they can be? I wouldn't.

And it's not just the DRM, either--between the "social" elements, the number fudging, and the lies about GlassBox, I'm seriously questioning whether anyone left at EA even understands what people want out of SimCity in the first place. SimCity is precisely the sort of game where really amazing underlying core simulation mechanics, AI, scalability, and so on--the engine itself--is way more important than the art, assets, graphics or any sort of online connectivity. The silver lining is that since they fucked up on every single one of those aspects, there's reason to hope that their failure to deliver a proper SimCity title was solely the product of gross incompetence of the highest magnitude, and not an indication that Maxissome EA project managers that happen to be working on SimCity don't understand what makes one of the oldest, most beloved, easiest to explain franchises in all of video games work.

I honestly don't know if EA's bottom line is going to be affected for this particular game, and I'm sure they don't care about me personally at all. But let's suppose for a moment that piracy would have had a huge effect on their sales for this title (I don't really think that's true, since SimCity is one of those games that transcends "normal" gamer culture, but let's pretend). Isn't it worth sacrificing some of those sales to produce dedicated fans of the series? To inspire generations of children to be passionate about games, to become consumers and producers, to educate the masses about how games can be both fun and educational, viscerally satisfying and outlets for creativity? I think so. Clearly, EA doesn't.
 

oneils

Member
Anyone who thinks that you can delete the 20 minute auto-quit function literally doesn't know what they're talking about.

To those thousands of GAFfers who are enjoying the Always-Connected™ functionality, what features are you particularly enjoying?

Hahahahahaha. Sheeeeiiiiit. Give this guy a medal.
 
EA tried to use big computer words to make people think offline play is impossible just because they said so and the general crowd is too computer illiterate to say otherwise. Now they are eating their words. Such a sweet find.
 
With all thats going on with SimCity, I think I'll be running out of popcorn for this.

What other juicy tidbits will we find about SimCity tomorrow?
 

i-Lo

Member
I haven't had much sleep last night and so I want to ask someone to dumb it down for me: What is the whole deal with Arthur Gies, Sim City and this current revelation of the presence of an forced offline code?

I have been out of the whole Sim City & Polygon loop.
 
I haven't had much sleep last night and so I want to ask someone to dumb it down for me: What is the whole deal with Arthur Gies, Sim City and this current revelation of the presence of an forced offline code?

I have been out of the whole Sim City & Polygon loop.

Arthur has been insanely and actively defensive of the game on twitter. Like claiming the game couldn't possibly be played offline because so much of the simulation was being run on EA's servers. When that was proven to not be the case he moved the goalposts and claimed that it was a primarily multiplayer game and playing offline was pointless and dumb. Which doesn't make sense for several reasons.

So people are just wondering how he would react to this bit of news.
 

sonicmj1

Member
The game has enough problems as it is without people having to turn tiny molehills like this into mountains. If we already know the online check can be circumvented, why does the code mechanism matter?

EA deserves plenty of shit for messing up the launch, and there are all kinds of problems with the design and the current mechanics. But I'm not sure what people expect with things like complaining about this, or how it's not a perfect one-to-one simulation of every part of your population. Would you have been happier if there wasn't a timer, and the game instantly quit if it lost an internet connection? If not, how else did you expect them to implement their online check, given what the server is doing?
 

Sblargh

Banned
This whole saga has just been depressing. SimCity is the franchise that got me into games, then into programming, into CS, into my current career. Will Wright is my fucking hero. He's a legitimate genius and, like Carmack or Miyamoto, one of the few elder statesmen of videogames who deserves the accolades. Hell, I even liked Spore (come at me bros, the procedural technology it created should have been a game-changer--the biggest problem with the game was that it wanted to be a game). But seeing what EA's done to Maxis makes me sick to my stomach.

SimCity used to be something magical, something visionary and special. It wasn't like other single-player games, where you were just playing out someone else's story, or multiplayer ones, which were about direct competition. Playing SimCity, by contrast, was almost like dreaming--a sandbox where you could explore crazy "what ifs" and learn about the world without suffering the real-world consequences of fucking up. That was pretty much Maxis's modus operandi. I'm not saying they weren't a business, because of course they were. I'm not saying they were the only ones making sandbox games, because we all know that's not true either. But if you read up on the early history of the company (and Wright in particular) they were always about a lot more than just maximizing profits. They didn't always succeed (I was never able to get into SimIsle, personally), but they always dreamed big, and when they did succeed they hit it out of the park.

That was back when the Maxis brand was one of the most respected in the industry. Now they're just another cog in the not-terribly-efficient EA machine, spewing out garbage products on the back of nostalgia and overblown hype and hoping nobody notices that there's nothing underneath. I think they are doing long-term, irreparable damage to the games market and the perception of the games industry by the population at large. Next time Congress has a hearing about how terrible video games are, who the fuck is going to have the balls to try to point to SimCity as an example of how amazing they can be? I wouldn't.

And it's not just the DRM, either--between the "social" elements, the number fudging, and the lies about GlassBox, I'm seriously questioning whether anyone left at EA even understands what people want out of SimCity in the first place. SimCity is precisely the sort of game where really amazing underlying core simulation mechanics, AI, scalability, and so on--the engine itself--is way more important than the art, assets, graphics or any sort of online connectivity. The silver lining is that since they fucked up on every single one of those aspects, there's reason to hope that their failure to deliver a proper SimCity title was solely the product of gross incompetence of the highest magnitude, and not an indication that Maxissome EA project managers that happen to be working on SimCity don't understand what makes one of the oldest, most beloved, easiest to explain franchises in all of video games work.

I honestly don't know if EA's bottom line is going to be affected for this particular game, and I'm sure they don't care about me personally at all. But let's suppose for a moment that piracy would have had a huge effect on their sales for this title (I don't really think that's true, since SimCity is one of those games that transcends "normal" gamer culture, but let's pretend). Isn't it worth sacrificing some of those sales to produce dedicated fans of the series? To inspire generations of children to be passionate about games, to become consumers and producers, to educate the masses about how games can be both fun and educational, viscerally satisfying and outlets for creativity? I think so. Clearly, EA doesn't.

Dang. Well said.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
No one in this thread is ever going to get a job as community manager for a big studio. Hope you are all happy.
 

i-Lo

Member
Arthur has been insanely and actively defensive of the game on twitter. Like claiming the game couldn't possibly be played offline because so much of the simulation was being run on EA's servers. When that was proven to not be the case he moved the goalposts and claimed that it was a primarily multiplayer game and playing offline was pointless and dumb. Which doesn't make sense for several reasons.

So people are just wondering how he would react to this bit of news.

Ah, I see thanks. I just checked to confirm that he didn't review the game. Makes me wonder what vested interest he may have at this point other than trying to save face/pride....
 
Ah, I see thanks. I just checked to confirm that he didn't review the game. Makes me wonder what vested interest he may have at this point other than trying to save face/pride....

I think that it has a lot more to do with the polygon staff being hyper-defensive of any criticism of polygon that Arthur being in love with EA or whatever. It has just snowballed out of control for him because he is cocksure and incapable of admitting when he has been wrong.
 
Had SimCity been on Steam, I wonder if Valve would have pulled it in the way they did WarZ.

Hard to imagine there being a larger "fail of the year" unless Nintendo don't manage to pick up some pace with the WiiU. Wondering if this SimCity will inspire a generation in the same way the original did to Sharp. Sad times.
 
So last month was the whole Aliens: Colonial Marines debacle, this month is Sim City... did anything big like this happen in January? I forget.

Either way, I both love and hate this absolute trainwreck. I love it because, well, this is what should be seen by people and all of this should be exposed, but at the same time, I'm hating this because if this is somehow any indication of the future of video games, this is not going to be a fun ride in the slightest.

That line of code's name is also worse than the getFudgedPopulation one... I didn't think that would be possible.
 

sonicmj1

Member
And it's not just the DRM, either--between the "social" elements, the number fudging, and the lies about GlassBox, I'm seriously questioning whether anyone left at EA even understands what people want out of SimCity in the first place. SimCity is precisely the sort of game where really amazing underlying core simulation mechanics, AI, scalability, and so on--the engine itself--is way more important than the art, assets, graphics or any sort of online connectivity. The silver lining is that since they fucked up on every single one of those aspects, there's reason to hope that their failure to deliver a proper SimCity title was solely the product of gross incompetence of the highest magnitude, and not an indication that Maxissome EA project managers that happen to be working on SimCity don't understand what makes one of the oldest, most beloved, easiest to explain franchises in all of video games work.

Thinking about their "grand design vision" with this game, it reminds me a lot of how SSX turned out. That game was also a number-free "reboot" of an older EA franchise, revived with online in mind. It was always connected, and it was built around a constantly online vision of asynchronous trials against the world and your friends, with a constant system of progression through random loot. They used GPS data to rapidly assemble a huge amount of courses, and changed the riding engine to work through the inconsistencies in their course modeling, letting you ride anything and land anywhere. They even stripped the game of traditional head-to-head multiplayer. And while it didn't share SimCity's catastrophic launch, the end product didn't really deliver what I had come to expect from SSX.

SimCity's design seems similarly focused on a connected vision at the expense of what people liked about the original game, to an even greater extreme.
 

Stop It

Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.
No one in this thread is ever going to get a job as community manager for a big studio. Hope you are all happy.

Aww, dang it, hopes dashed etc.

Seriously though, after SW:TOR I'm sure EA are just trying to make case studies for how not to PR manage a game's launch, despite the assistance of gaming "journalists" like Gies etc.

Somebody high up at EA clearly hates gamers.
 

DaBuddaDa

Member
Sharp said:
I honestly don't know if EA's bottom line is going to be affected for this particular game, and I'm sure they don't care about me personally at all. But let's suppose for a moment that piracy would have had a huge effect on their sales for this title (I don't really think that's true, since SimCity is one of those games that transcends "normal" gamer culture, but let's pretend). Isn't it worth sacrificing some of those sales to produce dedicated fans of the series? To inspire generations of children to be passionate about games, to become consumers and producers, to educate the masses about how games can be both fun and educational, viscerally satisfying and outlets for creativity? I think so. Clearly, EA doesn't.

Nope, there's an earnings call coming up and EA needs to report good results. To hell with long term thinking.
 
Nope, there's an earnings call coming up and EA needs to report good results. To hell with long term thinking.
I figured something like this was the case. Priority 1 is keeping shareholders happy even if it means rushing to market with an ill conceived and broken product.
 

Curufinwe

Member
Arthur has been insanely and actively defensive of the game on twitter. Like claiming the game couldn't possibly be played offline because so much of the simulation was being run on EA's servers. When that was proven to not be the case he moved the goalposts and claimed that it was a primarily multiplayer game and playing offline was pointless and dumb. Which doesn't make sense for several reasons.

So people are just wondering how he would react to this bit of news.

He also claimed that it would take "a lot of work" from Maxis to put in an offline mode so it would only happen "way down the line".
 

DaBuddaDa

Member
He also claimed that it would take "a lot of work" from Maxis to put in an offline mode so it would only happen "way down the line".

Which is absolutely hilarious considering his original tweet that started all of this was: "if you don't work at maxis and insist simcity could be updated to be offline, you literally don't know what you're talking about."

So Arthur clearly must work at Maxis if he's so sure it would take a lot of work. Or maybe he literally doesn't know what he's talking about.
 

danmaku

Member
Thinking about their "grand design vision" with this game, it reminds me a lot of how SSX turned out. That game was also a number-free "reboot" of an older EA franchise, revived with online in mind. It was always connected, and it was built around a constantly online vision of asynchronous trials against the world and your friends, with a constant system of progression through random loot. They used GPS data to rapidly assemble a huge amount of courses, and changed the riding engine to work through the inconsistencies in their course modeling, letting you ride anything and land anywhere. They even stripped the game of traditional head-to-head multiplayer. And while it didn't share SimCity's catastrophic launch, the end product didn't really deliver what I had come to expect from SSX.

SimCity's design seems similarly focused on a connected vision at the expense of what people liked about the original game, to an even greater extreme.

Yeah, they're trying as hard as they can to reach this fabled audience that wants every game to be "online" and "social", even at the expense of losing their old fans, yet those guys doesn't seem to be interested (if they exist at all).
 

Foffy

Banned
Why would anyone EVER give EA their money after this?

It's one thing to deliver a defective product or fuck up a launch. We see that all the time with everyone from Nintendo to Team Meat.

It's another thing to openly show contempt for your users like EA has. Censoring their own phone number/email address so users don't contact them. Putting in code to block offline play (there's a difference between requiring online by game design and actively blocking offline play just to be dicks).

EA doesn't give a damn about you or your experience or your satisfaction. They want to get your money and for you to then shut the fuck up and go away.

Don't support them. Regardless of whether or not you like Sim City or Battlefield or Madden or any other title they put out.

I haven't played an EA game since Dead Space 1, so I have heavily avoided this collapse they've delivered to their games. I think their business practices do enough to devoid the quality of their products, so much so that I wouldn't even play them for free.

This debacle alone will get EA nominated again as the worst company in America, and now they can't even justify anything against it.
 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
giesloveseazgkep.jpg
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
I figured something like this was the case. Priority 1 is keeping shareholders happy even if it means rushing to market with an ill conceived and broken product.

Honest question: what do shareholders have to be happy about in recent years though?

TOR was a bomb, EA sports stopped making NBA JAM, this game while I'm not sure how it will affect their bottom line demonstrates once again that the company doesn't know how to handle its own successful IP.. Then there's other stuff I'm hearing in this thread like SSX and Battlefield (I've never played either so I could be wrong) that don't seem to be living up to their potential.

On the other hand there's the NFS and DS franchises which I imagine are doing well and growing, but surely not fast enough to compensate for so many bigger losses? As a whole, if I owned stock in the company, what exactly would I have to look forward to?

Is casual/social/mobile so big it can support the entire company along with FIFA and Madden?
 

Swig_

Member
Honest question: what do shareholders have to be happy about in recent years though?

TOR was a bomb, EA sports stopped making NBA JAM, this game while I'm not sure how it will affect their bottom line demonstrates once again that the company doesn't know how to handle its own successful IP.. Then there's other stuff I'm hearing in this thread like SSX and Battlefield (I've never played either so I could be wrong) that don't seem to be living up to their potential.

On the other hand there's the NFS and DS franchises which I imagine are doing well and growing, but surely not fast enough to compensate for so many bigger losses? As a whole, if I owned stock in the company, what exactly would I have to look forward to?

Is casual/social/mobile so big it can support the entire company along with FIFA and Madden?

I think it's the sports games they keep churning out. Many of the people who buy/play the sports games aren't into the gaming scene and don't really pay attention to any drama as long as they get their Madden 2013.

Those games are big money-makers as they have a large audience and take little to develop.
 
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