Not even close to the same thing. I was letting him learn how to steer, this handicap is hold A to win.Driving around with him was your own self imposed handicap just to be clear.
Not even close to the same thing. I was letting him learn how to steer, this handicap is hold A to win.
This is great for those differently abled.
But for kids, on one hand I'm worried that using this would stop them from learning and getting better at the actual game, but on the other hand does that even matter.
He would have learnt to steer anyway in the same 3 months. And you would not have had to watch him for minutes climbing hills or going backwards, before proceeding to the next course. Even you would have had fun, while playing with him completing cups. That's what he meant.Not even close to the same thing. I was letting him learn how to steer, this handicap is hold A to win.
Not even close to the same thing. I was letting him learn how to steer, this handicap is hold A to win.
Everyone jumped on you but you're 100% correct. The experience of overcoming obstacles is ultimately much more rewarding than seeing the end of a level as soon as possible. But beyond that, any tool that performs the movements for you has been demonstrated to impair motor skill learning- you have to perform the movements with your own body to learn and improve.Older person grumbles at clouds time:
I understand making things fun for people but I really dislike how so much of society is trying to negate learning without actually implementing anything that will help. Learning how to play games was fun and once you understand the basics it opens up every kind of game possible. Mario Kart on the SNES was one of the first racing games I played alongside Super Hang On, they taught me the basics and yes I was awful at them but I could play every type of racing game from then on no problem. What is wrong with being bad at something? its a good life lesson, especially that if you practice you get better. I always thought the forced tutorial areas were bad enough as I like trial and error but they teach the fundamentals. This doesn't teach anything and anybody sharp enough will quickly realise they aren't actually doing anything and may as well be watching somebody else play instead.
Everyone jumped on you but you're 100% correct. The experience of overcoming obstacles is ultimately much more rewarding than seeing the end of a level as soon as possible. But beyond that, any tool that performs the movements for you has been demonstrated to impair motor skill learning- you have to perform the movements with your own body to learn and improve.
What is up with people when Nintendo adds casual friendly options to their games? Like fuck no one cares how good you are or were when you were a child at video games, the caste majority aren't you and need assistants to enjoy certain genres.
Also fuck the sentiment that with it children can't learn properly. It's essentially saying training wheels on a bike aren't a good idea.
My daughter is going to love this feature, because without it she would be off the track 95% of the time. Thank you Nintendo.
I never told him get good. I just let him do what he wanted and drove around with him as he learned how to control. He had more fun driving off the cliff than staying on the track. Over time though as he learned to play I started teaching him about items, what place he was in, etc... and by about 2-3 months in he was racing complete races without the handicap.
I just don't believe handicaps or shortcuts are good for learning. Not for adults, not for kids.
Everyone jumps on him because he was so clearly not correct. You must not have read any of the responses, otherwise you'd have realized this is not an autopilot.
I dislike how so much of society is trying to negate learning without actually implementing anything that will help. Learning how to play games was fun and once you understand the basics it opens up every kind of game possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWbLOFGSEDo&app=desktop
I really like this - not the game but how autosteering is implemented, if it were an option at least.
For one thing, the game doesn't feature a continual reminder that it's steering for you, the assist is seemless and allows the player to feel skillful, without actually being so. That's not dismililar to how features like aim assist are implemented into shooters, or braking assist is often implemented into modern racing games.
At the same time, it manages to successfully keep the player on-track, while allowing them to fail. The player bumps into walls and other hazards which briefly slow them down, the game provides clear and immediate feedback on what they could be doing better.
Therefore despite the assists, the player is afforded a good opportunity to learn. There's a sense that while the game is helping you, it's still encouraging you to improve. I like that, it's not clear that Mario Kart is really doing that. That's okay, but I feel that options for less assistance could be interesting too.
I don't think he was incorrect though. At least not with this sentiment.
Could the game not give better feedback? Could it not encourage them to drive themselves? What's encouragement is there to turn yourself while this system is enabled? It's not explicitely clear. Why not include more options for people that want a bit of help, but also want to learn and experience more of the games mechanics?
That Microsoft game that someone posted a while back arguably does it better. At least it would be nice to have an option for this type of thing. Kind of like shooters often have three stages of aim assistance, snap on aiming (just press L2 to hit the target), bullet magnetisim (a little assistance but it's easy to see what you're doing wrong when you're not aiming at them), and none.
I talked about this on the other page.
It's also a little interesting to include the 'this player can't drive' antena at the back of the car. What does that do for the players confidence, and how does that affect their intepretation of reward if they win? This isn't clear.
Something to bare in mind is that these types of assistances are actually very common in racing games. It's considered a challenging genre and games like Forza include everything from real world implementations that just provide a little assistance (like traction control management) to full blown assists such as steering and braking assist. Yet once the player has selected them, they're pretty seemless and allow the player to enjoy the game without a reminder of the help they're receiving.
I'm not saying I dislike the implementation but I think options are good too, and giving people the option to reduce the assistance a little so that they can make mistakes (for instance, only assisting them back onto the track after they hit the wall or veer off rather than before) could be good for players that aren't currently that capable, but possess an eagerness to learn more of the games mechanics.
It's a feature for people who have literally. I desire to learn the games mechanics and just want to have fun when they play with the family at Christmas.
I get that, and I don't resent the mechanic but I do think Nintendo could offer more for players.
There's people that sit between those polar opposites you describe, that arguably aren't well accomodated. People who are at a very low skill level, but want to understand the game, experience more of its mechanical depth, and potentially get better.
I don't dislike the implementation. Better with, than without, but people acting as if there's people who are seeking to be MLG MK players, and then there's people who only play casually at Christmas, miss a significant component of the picture. And as I said previously, it's something that other racing games have been tackling for a long time.
Take off those blinders and realize the video in the OP was driving in 50cc against dumb CPU players who let you win anyway.
You'll get nowhere using this against actual players who know what they're doing. This is about actually getting to the finish line and not falling off the track all the time. That is it. Chill pills need to be handed out at the entrance.
I don't think he was incorrect though. At least not with this sentiment.
Could the game not give better feedback? Could it not encourage them to drive themselves? What's encouragement is there to turn yourself while this system is enabled? It's not explicitely clear. Why not include more options for people that want a bit of help, but also want to learn and experience more of the games mechanics?I dislike how so much of society is trying to negate learning without actually implementing anything that will help. Learning how to play games was fun and once you understand the basics it opens up every kind of game possible.
It's also a little interesting to include the 'this player can't drive' antena at the back of the car. What does that do for the players confidence, and how does that affect their intepretation of reward if they win? This isn't clear.
I think it's for kids who can feel like they're doing a better job than they are. Like, little kids who wouldn't grasp the mechanics.Am I missing something? The game is just playing itself. Why bother playing if you're literally not doing anything.
The fact that it's contextualised in game with this glowing antenna is also pretty excellent
Honestly, I think the biggest thing we are all overlooking is how incredibly beneficial these modes may be to players with physical disabilities who who can now enjoy Mario Kart.
These players often require modified control schemes or custom controllers to play. Consider how much more accommodating Mario Kart is now that it can conceivably be played with one hand. Some players might be able to suppress a button but not easily toggle rapidly between suppress and released (Uncharted 4 had a setting for this). Some players might have a limited range of motion in their thumb. You never know who features like this can benefit. That's why we should welcome them.
True, though I think it can be a fun component of the game. But I guess they can still hit a bannana and spin off a cliff or something like that.
Really poor example that neglects an understanding of the difference between doing something because it completes a function, and doing something for entertainment.
Why snowboard down the mountain when you could just take the ski-lift? Why eat food if you simply replace a meal with a pill?
Older person grumbles at clouds time:
I understand making things fun for people but I really dislike how so much of society is trying to negate learning without actually implementing anything that will help. Learning how to play games was fun and once you understand the basics it opens up every kind of game possible. Mario Kart on the SNES was one of the first racing games I played alongside Super Hang On, they taught me the basics and yes I was awful at them but I could play every type of racing game from then on no problem. What is wrong with being bad at something? its a good life lesson, especially that if you practice you get better. I always thought the forced tutorial areas were bad enough as I like trial and error but they teach the fundamentals. This doesn't teach anything and anybody sharp enough will quickly realise they aren't actually doing anything and may as well be watching somebody else play instead.
However it's also about understanding your players. Hypothetically, let's say From Software removed the failure state from Dark Souls, the game is marketed on failure, sold to people on the prospect that they might not be able to complete the game, how do you think that audience would react?
Perhaps you and I are talking about something different. Perhaps you are talking about game over screens, and the punishment that often follows the failure state, or perhaps not. Either way, this is my perspective.
Are you a baby boomer? Nothing like some dude getting a steering assist from parents and government then telling everyone they should git gud and it's okay to be bad at something.Older person grumbles at clouds time:
I understand making things fun for people but I really dislike how so much of society is trying to negate learning without actually implementing anything that will help. Learning how to play games was fun and once you understand the basics it opens up every kind of game possible. Mario Kart on the SNES was one of the first racing games I played alongside Super Hang On, they taught me the basics and yes I was awful at them but I could play every type of racing game from then on no problem. What is wrong with being bad at something? its a good life lesson, especially that if you practice you get better. I always thought the forced tutorial areas were bad enough as I like trial and error but they teach the fundamentals. This doesn't teach anything and anybody sharp enough will quickly realise they aren't actually doing anything and may as well be watching somebody else play instead.
You could always do that in 50cc though?What this is telling me is that rubberbanding aside the enemy AI in this game is complete garbage. He won without a single drift and a single item-use. Heh.
If people want to use this, more power to them. I don't begrudge in inclusion of the "easy-auto" difficulty in Platinum Games either.
So instead of 'Nice one for adding a feature to help out a certain subset of people' you're just complaining that they didn't do more to accommodate another subset of people? Seems like a weird stance to take on a feature that has no downsides.
I circle back to my bowing comparison. Do you also complain that bowling alleys do nothing to help intermediate players while offering rails to help people who just want to knock down some pins?
There is also a point where if you try something and its not brutal and disheartening, that you actually... enjoy playing it and slowly get better and better until you don't need help.
I don't know if any of these "git gud" fucks have ever played games with kids, but there is a divide between "I'm not very good at this game but its fun" and "this game crushes me and fuck all this and I feel awful cause I just want to play and have fun like everyone else"
I didn't say it took 3 months for him to learn to steer. Within 3 months he had already learned all the mechanics and within half a year he kicks human opponents asses and he is 4. I am not saying he is a pro player or that good when compared to the whole, but he certainly will be better than kids who will use this mechanic at his same age.He would have learnt to steer anyway in the same 3 months. And you would not have had to watch him for minutes climbing hills or going backwards, before proceeding to the next course. Even you would have had fun, while playing with him completing cups. That's what he meant.
The incentive to get better is what makes video games enjoyable in the first place. I sucked at Mario Kart 64 as a kid but I wanted to get better.One of the biggest barriers to entry to video games is the huge skill gap involved. It's frustrating for a new player when they keep falling off the edge. It's frustrating for other players waiting for them to finally finish. This option lets everyone have fun, which is the while point of games.
Why would you fault someone for sliding down the mountain on their snowboard sideways, because the slope is too steep for them. Sure they could get better eventually, but maybe that hobby just isn't for them. Do you actually berate them for trying things out and never reaching a top performance level?
This argument is nothing more than a prettier dress and makeup for the old 2006 casual filth don't deserve to share this hobby attitude.
Maybe you didn't want to make that point, but it sure comes across like that.
The general sentiment I agree with, yea.
Your question about better feedback is answered with your observation about the antenna:
The antenna is the feedback. Since it lights up whenever the steering aid activates, the player is shown when they should have started turning at the latest to avoid crashing into the wall or falling off the track. The player is driving the whole time already.
In addition, maybe some of us can compile a list of the MK8 tracks, from easiest to the most challenging (even with smart assist on), as part of a MK training guide to help settle in new players?
Beginner
- Excitebike Arena
- Mario Kart Stadium
- Yoshi Circuit
That's all I can remember from memory.
Please feel free to change/add anything.
In addition, maybe some of us can compile a list of the MK8 tracks, from easiest to the most challenging (even with smart assist on), as part of a MK training guide to help settle in new players?
Advanced
- Toads Turnpike (N64)
- Rainbow Road (N64)
- Rainbow Road (Wii U)
- Dolphin Shoals
- Wario Stadium
- Ice Ice Outpost
- DK Jungle
Intermediate-Advanced
- Thwomp Ruins
- Dry Dry Desert (GCN)
- Wario's Gold Mine
- Shy Guy Falls
- Twisted Mansion
- Bowser's Castle
- Mount Wario
Intermediate
- Sunshine Airport
- Yoshi's Valley
- Music Park
- Cheep Cheep Beach
- Cloudtop Cruise
- Electrodrome
Beginner-Intermeditate
- Royal Raceway
- Mario Circuit (Shell)
- Mario Circuit (Flower)
Beginner
- Excitebike Arena
- Mario Kart Stadium
- Yoshi Circuit
That's all I can remember from memory.
Please feel free to change/add anything.
The bowling alley comparison isn't really very good, is it? Because while it protects them from absolute failure, it doesn't keep them on track, either, just kind of throws them in an awkward direction, or in some cases, they just skirt the side.
There's very obvious feedback, in that case, as to why hitting the side is still worse. The ball loses momentum, the influence that the player gave it when throwing, becomes reduced.
I think it's unfair to say I'm complaining. I use neogaf to discuss features and design of video games, with other uses - this is just that. I think there are ways in which this could be implemented better but I don't resent it's implementation.
I didn't say it took 3 months for him to learn to steer. Within 3 months he had already learned all the mechanics and within half a year he kicks human opponents asses and he is 4. I am not saying he is a pro player or that good when compared to the whole, but he certainly will be better than kids who will use this mechanic at his same age.