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SNES vs Genesis Sound

S

Syrus

Banned
Beerman462 said:
So my 13yr old has been playing through Chrono Trigger and I'm getting major nostalgia from it. It reminded me of how much a sound chip mattered in the 16bit days. I have been listening to You Tube videos of SNES and Genesis music and to me the SNES is far superior, but I am willing to be proven wrong. So in this thread post links to 16bit music samples from SNES and Genesis that represent the best of what 16bit sound has to offer.
Click to expand...


Nothing beats chrono trigger OST , FFVI is good too.

So much nostalgia but the game is still so good.

My son has played it 3 or 4 times
 
TheContact

TheContact

Member
Syrus said:
Nothing beats chrono trigger OST , FFVI is good too.

So much nostalgia but the game is still so good.

My son has played it 3 or 4 times
Click to expand...

Check out Chrono Cross and Xenogears..same producer (Mitsuda) also very very good OSTs

But I think first poster had it right. It was all about the implementation but overall snes was capable of better music. I remember the avgn snes vs genesis video spoke about this and he had examples. I think doom was one of the examples; I can't remember if snes or genesis was better. I should watch that video again though it was good

Edit: here it is

https://youtu.be/T_MOqHyCUEc

Sorry if posted already tho
 
D

dogen

Member
TesUsa said:
Check out Chrono Cross and Xenogears..same producer (Mitsuda) also very very good OSTs

But I think first poster had it right. It was all about the implementation but overall snes was capable of better music. I remember the avgn snes vs genesis video spoke about this and he had examples. I think doom was one of the examples;
Click to expand...

Worst example possible of course lol
 
0

00ich

Member
E

EPSYLON EAGLE

Member
They notice how Super Nes fanboys act like bots always citing the same soundtracks, Chrono Trigger, FFVI or DkC series, which only highlights their total ignorance about of the vast console library.

Ganbare Goemon IV shines in all aspects.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILOl-XSgPnU&index=19&list=PL9-ZnDgvwZnT1fkQx_jITM1zKTrYjCtLM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjvodH7Of-A&list=PL9-ZnDgvwZnT1fkQx_jITM1zKTrYjCtLM&index=47

In Genesis side Wonder Boy in Monster World is so good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYj9mElRg30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myqJvNuBAic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVWYBiOhnYI
 
O

Opa-Pa

Member
Damn I've wanted to get into Splatterhouse for the longest time and had no idea they got Genesis ports. That sounds great, I'll have to give them a try.
 
L

Laevateinn

Member
Opa-Pa said:
Damn I've wanted to get into Splatterhouse for the longest time and had no idea they got Genesis ports. That sounds great, I'll have to give them a try.
Click to expand...

The Genesis versions were the only ones I knew as a kid. I wish they didn't disappear because they're super expensive nowadays.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
I've always felt the true answer isn't that one or the other was better, but more that the SNES is better at emulating real instruments (the finest example of this being the JRPG work of Uematsu & Mitsuda) and the Mega Drive is better at other stuff, which is why the games where the MD excels are all fairly modern, electronic or even abstract like Ecco, Streets of Rage or even the Sonic scores.
 
L

lazygecko

Member
APZonerunner said:
I've always felt the true answer isn't that one or the other was better, but more that the SNES is better at emulating real instruments (the finest example of this being the JRPG work of Uematsu & Mitsuda)
Click to expand...

It's really not as clear cut as that when it comes to the topic of realism. SNES can emulate transients/attacks (within a specific octave range of the given instrument) well but not the nuances of sustained/decaying tones due to the amount of space it would swallow. The higher tier SNES stuff will often creatively try to mask this shortcoming, like in Mitsuda's Chrono Trigger where the acoustic piano uses a lot of sequenced echoes to make up for the fact that it can't naturally decay like a real piano.

Genesis is the opposite where it might not feel "real" at a casual glance, but it has the advantage of adding natural textures to tones that linger for longer periods. Like a horn legato gradually losing its brightness or especially for stuff like lead guitars that can seamlessly decay into a different set of harmonics. This is an entire aspect of music/acoustics that is mostly absent on the SNES.
 
E

EPSYLON EAGLE

Member
lazygecko said:
It's really not as clear cut as that when it comes to the topic of realism. SNES can emulate transients/attacks (within a specific octave range of the given instrument) well but not the nuances of sustained/decaying tones due to the amount of space it would swallow. The higher tier SNES stuff will often creatively try to mask this shortcoming, like in Mitsuda's Chrono Trigger where the acoustic piano uses a lot of sequenced echoes to make up for the fact that it can't naturally decay like a real piano.
Click to expand...

Gecko, is not a piano, but the Yamaha 2612 would be in great trouble replicating the Tocatta Fugue how this incredible Super Nes organ rendition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh8IIwW1Is0

The Genesis versions of this Classic Tune are not exactly good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQgy5X7QaTk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy0h95uyQCM&index=9&list=PLFSHdeZ6gP01S4u8xom9KEn4AjjT0nym8
 
H

hodgy100

Member
EPSYLON EAGLE said:
Gecko, is not a piano, but the Yamaha 2612 would be in great trouble replicating the Tocatta Fugue how this incredible Super Nes organ rendition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh8IIwW1Is0

The Genesis versions of this Classic Tune are not exactly good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQgy5X7QaTk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy0h95uyQCM&index=9&list=PLFSHdeZ6gP01S4u8xom9KEn4AjjT0nym8
Click to expand...

eh Id argue that the genesis can do it, just that those two examples are terrible renditions.
 
S

sfried

Member
EPSYLON EAGLE said:
They notice how Super Nes fanboys act like bots always citing the same soundtracks, Chrono Trigger, FFVI or DkC series, which only highlights their total ignorance about of the vast console library.
Click to expand...
Funny, I feel Genesis fanboys also guilty of in citing the a similar number titles like Thunderforce, Sonic, Moonwalker, Shinobi, and the Streets of Rage games. I can't help but feel too much stilt again the SNES in this thread.

While we're at it, you might as well bring up Master System games into the fold: "Yeah, see how this sounds sooo much better than SNES!"

Funny I do have a soft spot for the Wonder Boy/ Monster World games music, particularly MW IV, but that's because it avoids using the BUTT UGLY NOTES OF THE GENESIS YAMAHA SYNTHESIZER entirely, and in fact tries to keep its composition clean as to avoid the typical "metalic twang" that affects so many poorly composed Genesis tracks...and trust me, there are a lot. (Here's the same track, but in Tengen's version of Marble Madness.)

tl;dr - The best Genesis composers knew which particular instruments/pitches produced the god awful brown notes so they made sure to avoiding using such instruments in their composition. Sometimes though the twang is unavoidable: Gunstar Heroes still has a bit of it, and if it wasn't for GBA's low fidelity sound this track might have sounded much much better with higher quality PCM samples, and I would've prefered it over the Genesis itteration.
(Well I guess that's what the Arranged Soundtrack is for.)

Edit:
Here's some GameFreak love
Pulseman - Stereo Project

I still like listening to this once in a while though
MegaMan X - Storm Eagle

Edit 2:
While we're at it, here's a side-by-side comparison of Batman Forever that showcases both audio and visual of the same game on both platforms.
 
D

Dehnus

Member
sfried said:
Funny, I feel Genesis fanboys also guilty of in citing the a similar number titles like Thunderforce, Sonic, Moonwalker, Shinobi, and the Streets of Rage games. I can't help but feel too much stilt again the SNES in this thread.

While we're at it, you might as well bring up Master System games into the fold: "Yeah, see how this sounds sooo much better than SNES!"

Funny I do have a soft spot for the Wonder Boy/ Monster World games music, particularly MW IV, but that's because it avoids using the BUTT UGLY NOTES OF THE GENESIS YAMAHA SYNTHESIZER entirely, and in fact tries to keep its composition clean as to avoid the typical "metalic twang" that affects so many poorly composed Genesis tracks...and trust me, there are a lot. (Well I guess that's what the Arranged Soundtrack is for.)

tl;dr - The best Genesis composers knew which particular instruments/pitches produced the god awful brown notes so they made sure to avoiding using such instruments in their composition. Sometimes though the twang is unavoidable: Gunstar Heroes still has a bit of it, and if it wasn't for GBA's low fidelity sound this track might have sounded much much better with higher quality PCM samples, and I would've prefered it over the Genesis itteration.
Click to expand...

Shows how much you know. There are no "but uggly notes/pitches" about the Yamaha synth. All notes sound the same quality wise. It's what driver you use and instrumentation, most USA games use GEM, which was only released due to SEGA considering American composers too stupid to write their own FM drivers like Europeans and Japanese composers. That is why they cite Thunderforce as that one has it's own driver. I also gave plenty of other examples, like anything from Renovation (which can be several different brands but they all are from the same publisher later bought out by SEGA), Konami (Tiny Toons and Turtles: Hyperstone heist are still awesome) and I can give you many more.

But please do compare both on ACTUAL HARDWARE! Not on emulation, because that will always favor the SNES. Sample patches can be cleaned up on an SNES, and remove that horrible interpolation filter that is on ALL snes samples. But especially for composers that pushed the YM2612 + SN76489 to it's limit.. emulation doesn't do it justice.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
SNES for me.

ActRaiser, Donkey Kong Country, SF2 Championship Edition, and UN Squadron were a class above for me.

That said, games like Aladdin and Sonic were fantasic experiences on the Genesis.
 
D

Dehnus

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
SNES for me.

ActRaiser, Donkey Kong Country, SF2 Championship Edition, and UN Squadron were a class above for me.

That said, games like Aladdin and Sonic were fantasic experiences on the Genesis.
Click to expand...

They where "Meh" (Aladdin and Sonic I mean ;)) incomparison to things like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQbitmR_YBY

But then Renovation had a lot of experience with Yamaha's FM synths from the Arcade ;).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkMXOWFgB5M
Same with the guys at Technosoft (And no that isn't Thunderforce, :p)
What people forget that the Megadrive can do great Organs, it would make the battle/boss battle music of FF games sound awesome! Seeing how much Mister Eumatsu is such a Deep Purlple/John Lord fan ;). .

https://youtu.be/uzPOwwNSOQM?t=5m36s
One of my personal favourites, Twilight Express from Battle Mania Daiginjō.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ec2jUejiYw
Mickey Mania also sounded awesome! :p, "The Warf" even sounds a bit Amiga like ;). So I wonder how hard they worked that third FM channel (that was unconstrained in wave forms) and that 6th FM channel that could double as a PCM channel ;). But then you could sample on the PSG a bit as well I suppose. Quality was horrible though :D.


To think I never owned this thing as a kid, I just fell in love with it later :D.
 
D

Dehnus

Member
hodgy100 said:
eh Id argue that the genesis can do it, just that those two examples are terrible renditions.
Click to expand...

Yup, :p
A YM2612 would be great with Organs. Organs lend themselves really well to FM synthesis. So you basically would have 6 channels of em ;). Plus 3 PSG for extra OOMPH and a PSG voice channel for creapypasta ghostly wind effects :D.
 
F

Firenze1

Banned
For some reason mega drive games always sounded grated or metallic for me while snes sounded more clean. Might been the tvs back in the day.
 
D

Dehnus

Member
dogen said:
It depends a lot on the model of hardware.
Click to expand...

More on the driver actually. There are benefits and drawbacks to all models. Best sounding ones are those modded to and patched together from several incarnations.. like a Frankenstein monster ;).
 
S

Shaneus

Member
I was surprised to learn this week(ish) that Super Fantasy Zone on the MD has the arcade music hidden but playable in-game. It literally sounds exactly like the arcade version, which pleases my ears no end.
 
J

Jazz573

Member
Dehnus said:
Shows how much you know. There are no "but uggly notes/pitches" about the Yamaha synth. All notes sound the same quality wise. It's what driver you use and instrumentation, most USA games use GEM, which was only released due to SEGA considering American composers too stupid to write their own FM drivers like Europeans and Japanese composers. That is why they cite Thunderforce as that one has it's own driver. I also gave plenty of other examples, like anything from Renovation (which can be several different brands but they all are from the same publisher later bought out by SEGA), Konami (Tiny Toons and Turtles: Hyperstone heist are still awesome) and I can give you many more.

But please do compare both on ACTUAL HARDWARE! Not on emulation, because that will always favor the SNES. Sample patches can be cleaned up on an SNES, and remove that horrible interpolation filter that is on ALL snes samples. But especially for composers that pushed the YM2612 + SN76489 to it's limit.. emulation doesn't do it justice.
Click to expand...

Not sure if you did this or not, but it seems to me you might be confusing Renovation Games (Reno) with Renovation Products. Renovation Products, which was formerly an American publishing branch of Telenet (and by the way didn't develop any games, so it's actually Reno/Telenet's driver), was bought by Sega, but Renovation Games was always a Telenet dev team.

On the topic of sound drivers tho, there is also Terpsichorean (programmed by Hitoshi Sakimoto), which was originally a driver for the PC-88, but also had PC-98 and MegaDrive versions.
 
J

Jazz573

Member
EPSYLON EAGLE said:
King Salmon by Hitoshi Sakimoto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZUpV3dRDLE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLFq-AtnYxM&list=PLFSHdeZ6gP01L-IjUx3DdpENwyI6ehv3L&index=5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTuntNT6mqQ&index=8&list=PLFSHdeZ6gP01L-IjUx3DdpENwyI6ehv3L
Click to expand...

and Masaharu Iwata. Don't give all the credit to Sakimoto. :p

And actually looking on Sakimoto's page on Basiscape (キングサーモン if you're looking for it on the page), he's only credited for sound FX and sound driver for King Salmon, so it's actually just Iwata.
 
D

dogen

Member
Dehnus said:
More on the driver actually. There are benefits and drawbacks to all models. Best sounding ones are those modded to and patched together from several incarnations.. like a Frankenstein monster ;).
Click to expand...

Yeah, the instrumentation is the most important. But the earlier models with the heavier low pass filtering (or a custom one like you mentioned) help a lot to make the harsher sounding music on the system more listenable.
 
A

Armoured Priest

Member
Jazz573 said:
Not sure if you did this or not, but it seems to me you might be confusing Renovation Games (Reno) with Renovation Products. Renovation Products, which was formerly an American publishing branch of Telenet (and by the way didn't develop any games, so it's actually Reno/Telenet's driver), was bought by Sega, but Renovation Games was always a Telenet dev team.

On the topic of sound drivers tho, there is also Terpsichorean (programmed by Hitoshi Sakimoto), which was originally a driver for the PC-88, but also had PC-98 and MegaDrive versions.
Click to expand...

As an extra FYI, Sunsoft acquired Telnet in 2009, so Sunsoft has access to all of that game library.
 
S

Shaneus

Member
dogen said:
Yeah, the instrumentation is the most important. But the earlier models with the heavier low pass filtering (or a custom one like you mentioned) help a lot to make the harsher sounding music on the system more listenable.
Click to expand...
I have an early model PAL MD1, I'm all set 8)

Modded it with RCA outputs too, and used the hole for the headphone jack to mount a perfectly-sized region switch.
 
E

EPSYLON EAGLE

Member
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