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So, about the Wii U 50hz VC...

I replied (haha what a waste of fucking time) that they were wrong.

Every cunting Wii U ships with HDMI which means it pumps out a 60hz signal. They are so fucking useless.


EDIT: I didn't say that to them obviously :)
 

Glass Joe

Member
Nintendo have replied to me:

We are sorry to hear of your frustrations with the Virtual Console games. All televisions distributed within Europe are designed to support PAL inputs and most will not support NTSC inputs. As PAL is standard on televisions in Europe the console outputs on PAL. With regards to the 3DS as it has its own screens no compatibility decisions need to be factored into the Virtual Console games.

We hope this information helps provide clarity.

I'm not from Europe but that can't even be true these days, can it? Looking at the popular posts on the European Balloon Fight board, I can't believe that's right. Plus anyway, the gamepad itself can do 60Hz regardless, so they should offer that option. With as far behind NOE seems to be lagging with the U, actually listening to customers should be a priority, no?
 

Rich!

Member
Nintendo have replied to me:

We are sorry to hear of your frustrations with the Virtual Console games. All televisions distributed within Europe are designed to support PAL inputs and most will not support NTSC inputs. As PAL is standard on televisions in Europe the console outputs on PAL. With regards to the 3DS as it has its own screens no compatibility decisions need to be factored into the Virtual Console games.

We hope this information helps provide clarity.

Well then.

Nintendo aren't going to ever see another penny from me. I'll buy my games used from now on, and like hell am I going to ever buy anything on the eshop.

I know it sounds empty, but this anti-consumer shit that Nintendo keeps pulling off has completely and utterly ruined my perception of them.

Congratulations, Nintendo. You've lost a customer who's been loyal since 1994.

Got to send my message somehow, considering how the gaming press don't seem to give a shit.
 

Bleep

Member
Nintendo have replied to me:

We are sorry to hear of your frustrations with the Virtual Console games. All televisions distributed within Europe are designed to support PAL inputs and most will not support NTSC inputs. As PAL is standard on televisions in Europe the console outputs on PAL. With regards to the 3DS as it has its own screens no compatibility decisions need to be factored into the Virtual Console games.

We hope this information helps provide clarity.

I can't wait for Nintendo to announce all games in Europe will have HD resolutions removed, as some TVs may not support them.
 

Glass Joe

Member
I replied (haha what a waste of fucking time) that they were wrong.

Every cunting Wii U ships with HDMI which means it pumps out a 60hz signal. They are so fucking useless.


EDIT: I didn't say that to them obviously :)

What does New Super Mario Bros U run at? I hadn't heard any controversy over that, so I assume 60Hz. If that's the case, you should send them a snarky reply asking how such sorcery is possible. Man, if I were in Europe, I'd be pissed too.
 

Robin64

Member
Uh, no, you're off by a whole decade. Super Mario Bros 1 has a good PAL conversion, as does Super Mario 2, 3, Kirby... almost all first party NES and SNES games....

They sped up Kirby's movements to match the speed of the NTSC one, but everything else was left alone and runs nearly 20% slower as normal. This just made Kirby move way too fast in comparison to the world around him.

What does New Super Mario Bros U run at?

60hz. Everything here on Wii U runs at 60hz aside from Virtual Console stuff.
 
I'm not from Europe but that can't even be true these days, can it? Looking at the popular posts on the European Balloon Fight board, I can't believe that's right. Plus anyway, the gamepad itself can do 60Hz regardless, so they should offer that option. With as far behind NOE seems to be lagging with the U, actually listening to customers should be a priority, no?

Indeed. My reply was this:


This is not correct. Wii U outputs 60hz through HDMI, PAL is not a factor anymore. Every Wii U ships with an HDMI cable, and when connected to a TV with HDMI outputs a 60hz signal. EVERY Wii U system, therefore EVERY Wii U is cable of outputting a 60hz video signal (NTSC or PAL60, it makes no difference).

I am very disappointed that this is Nintendo's response. Basically it means European gamers yet again are getting a poorer experience than players in USA and Japan.
 
What does New Super Mario Bros U run at? I hadn't heard any controversy over that, so I assume 60Hz. If that's the case, you should send them a snarky reply asking how such sorcery is possible. Man, if I were in Europe, I'd be pissed too.


All Wii U games on Wii U (Mario, Pikmin, whatever) will be 60hz naturally. Most (nearly all, but not 100%) Wii games supported PAL 60hz and 480p. It's just the Virtual Console stuff that is fucked.
 

Glass Joe

Member
Indeed. My reply was this:


This is not correct. Wii U outputs 60hz through HDMI, PAL is not a factor anymore. Every Wii U ships with an HDMI cable, and when connected to a TV with HDMI outputs a 60hz signal. EVERY Wii U system, therefore EVERY Wii U is cable of outputting a 60hz video signal (NTSC or PAL60, it makes no difference).

I am very disappointed that this is Nintendo's response. Basically it means European gamers yet again are getting a poorer experience than players in USA and Japan.

I've seen the Balloon Fight comparison footage. I wouldn't stand for it either.
 

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
Nintendo have replied to me:

We are sorry to hear of your frustrations with the Virtual Console games. All televisions distributed within Europe are designed to support PAL inputs and most will not support NTSC inputs. As PAL is standard on televisions in Europe the console outputs on PAL. With regards to the 3DS as it has its own screens no compatibility decisions need to be factored into the Virtual Console games.

We hope this information helps provide clarity.

This makes no freaking sense. I simply cannot understand what's their reasoning behind this.

I'm so sorry, fellow EU players.

Hopefully every Wii U VC release's Miiverse community will be filled with 50Hz complaints from here until the end of times.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Only hope now is that was just a standard line from the prompter and the person who sent that response knows nothing.

Otherwise F-Zero Community room here we come!
 

mr2xxx

Banned
Its like you guys didn't even have blast processing, not even universal healthcare makes up for This travesty.
 
This is pure BS.

Nintendo themselves have released
RETAIL games 60hz only (Metroid Prime 2 and
Fatal Frame 2: Wii Edition to name but two), so
I doubt they care about gamers with 50hz-only TVs
(yes, all three of them).
 

D.Lo

Member
So where's the best place to buy a USA Wii U online?

They sped up Kirby's movements to match the speed of the NTSC one, but everything else was left alone and runs nearly 20% slower as normal. This just made Kirby move way too fast in comparison to the world around him.
I directly compared my Japanese and PAL copies back in the day, and there was more conversion than that. The music was the correct, and the screen was scaled better (less letterboxing that unconverted games).

I can even prove it, here's a video of a PAL rom running at 60Hz, it's clearly too fast in every respect.
 

also

Banned
Indeed. My reply was this:


This is not correct. Wii U outputs 60hz through HDMI, PAL is not a factor anymore. Every Wii U ships with an HDMI cable, and when connected to a TV with HDMI outputs a 60hz signal. EVERY Wii U system, therefore EVERY Wii U is cable of outputting a 60hz video signal (NTSC or PAL60, it makes no difference).

I am very disappointed that this is Nintendo's response. Basically it means European gamers yet again are getting a poorer experience than players in USA and Japan.

You should have also mentioned that they released 60Hz only games way back in 2003 (Zelda Collector's Edition) and again in 2004 ( Metroid Prime 2) and that they released 60Hz versions of VC games as part of the Hanabi Festival and that those without a 60Hz enabled TV can still play on the Gamepad. Also ask them where they got the data that most TVs don't support 60Hz.

If they replaced the EUR roms with the US roms; would it mean everything has to get reclassified again?
They are doing it for NES on 3DS. There's even a 60Hz version of Balloon Fight that ambassadors can play right now.
 

sakipon

Member
This is pure BS.

Nintendo themselves have released
RETAIL games 60hz only (Metroid Prime 2 and
Fatal Frame 2: Wii Edition to name but two), so
I doubt they care about gamers with 50hz-only TVs
(yes, all three of them).

But what if those 3 people are sweet grandmas wanting to play a retro game on their pre-WWII TVs? Doesn't anyone think of the elderly?

Oh well, the 60hz Miiverse propaganda shall continue.
 

Kenka

Member
*ahem* Nintendo are more or less officially a bunch of salty cunts now.
If I have to extend my argument, I would say that they could at least add a 60 Hz version along to give their customers the choice to download either version.
 

Robin64

Member
If the VC continues to be 50hz, I hope everyone complaing will refuse to spend their money. I've seen boycotts before where people just give up, but we need to send a clear message to Nintendo.
 

Rich!

Member
If the VC continues to be 50hz, I hope everyone complaing will refuse to spend their money. I've seen boycotts before where people just give up, but we need to send a clear message to Nintendo.

As said above, im doing exactly that.

I am also hoping the Wii U is hacked wide open as soon as humanly possible. I got around the shitty 50hz vc on the Wii thanks to SNES9x and the homebrew channel.

If Nintendo can't give us consumers the experience we deserve, I can be safe in the knowledge that hackers will eventually.
 

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
NoE said:
All televisions distributed within Europe are designed to support PAL inputs and most will not support NTSC inputs.

ahahahahaha

It's like going back in time 15 years. Next we'll find out NoE have rehired David Gosen.

I could have sworn they released Metroid Prime 2 in PAL-land as a 60Hz only. What a bunch of shit.
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
ahahahahaha

It's like going back in time 15 years. Next we'll find out NoE have rehired David Gosen.

I could have sworn they released Metroid Prime 2 in PAL-land as a 60Hz only. What a bunch of shit.

MP2 used PAL 60, so there's that, still, PAL sets support 60hz no problem, these days. But even then, my OLD AS SHIT fatty widescreen supports true NTSC. As evidenced by me playing Shin Megami Tensei 3 in NTSC mode at 60hz.
 
I wonder if the excuse from the "dog ate my homework" list would be different if it was the "halp its running in slow motions".

But the real issue is we're hitting the customer services wall. You need to bypass that as the issue has stayed isolated in customer services since 2006 it would appear...

It's like going back in time 15 years. Next we'll find out NoE have rehired David Gosen.
That Shelly person is back in charge of Nintendo UK so we kind of have...next we know nintendo.co.uk will be in German.
 
But what if those 3 people are sweet grandmas wanting to play a retro game on their pre-WWII TVs? Doesn't anyone think of the elderly?

Oh well, the 60hz Miiverse propaganda shall continue.

I guess those "sweet grandmas" are more important to Nintendo than the hundreds of people complaining... And here I thought the dark days of
Nintendo ass-raping their European customers were over. :/

I'm not buying a single VC game until this issue is solved, and I'll be
letting them know about it on Miiverse.
 
If the VC continues to be 50hz, I hope everyone complaing will refuse to spend their money. I've seen boycotts before where people just give up, but we need to send a clear message to Nintendo.

I wont be buying any VC titles for Wii U until this debacle is fixed..

3DS VC only for me..
 

CLEEK

Member
Nintendo have replied to me:

We are sorry to hear of your frustrations with the Virtual Console games. All televisions distributed within Europe are designed to support PAL inputs and most will not support NTSC inputs. As PAL is standard on televisions in Europe the console outputs on PAL. With regards to the 3DS as it has its own screens no compatibility decisions need to be factored into the Virtual Console games.

We hope this information helps provide clarity.

One point (which Nintendo would be well aware of) is that there is a Europe wide HDTV standard. All HDTVs have to comply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_ready

European HDTVs have to accept 50Hz and 60Hz inputs. PAL doesn't exist in the HD world. It is purely an old SD format. If your WiiU is connected to an HDTV, is will accept 60Hz.
 
Even in the days of SD it was increasingly common for European TVs to support 60Hz. It's pretty safe to tell 50Hz-only Euro consumers to come join the modern world now, especially since they can play on the GamePad if not on their TVs.
 

Lynd7

Member
I am so angry right now, Nintendo Europe are a bunch of jerks. This is ridiculus, they hardly respond to media outlets who were genuinely trying to approach them for a discussion on the matter. And this is the response we get, it's a slap in face.

Now they are changing the Miiverse rules, they are hoping they can just ignore their own customers now. Most the people complaining would probably buy nearly every release again if they offered 60Hz.

Their excuse is stupid, basically no one would have a 50Hz only TV. And those who do, can be left behind now. It's been long enough.
 
Geez thats a pathetic excuse they ripped out of the 80s-90s reply book lol.

The frickin console SHIPS WITH HDMI CABLES but they still think 'sorry most TVs wont support that'. WTF?

Sigh, considering they've released games that were 60 only and have supposedly embraced HDMI (if they even know what cable they stuck in their new machine) that excuse is just BS and lazy.
 

Lynd7

Member
Geez thats a pathetic excuse they ripped out of the 80s-90s reply book lol.

The frickin console SHIPS WITH HDMI CABLES but they still think 'sorry most TVs wont support that'. WTF?

Indeed, it's pathetic. Maybe we should organize a website and do something like Operation Rainfall. At least have all the info in one place. So annoyed.
 

Robin64

Member
Fellow Europeans, I think I may have Wii U depression. It's been a rough old time for us.

50hz Virtual Console.
Scribblenauts delayed.
Rayman Legends delayed.
Not a single mention of TVii, iPlayer, etc.
eShop content locked away silly-o-clock at night.

Sigh.
 

Azuardo

Member
Indeed, it's pathetic. Maybe we should organize a website and do something like Operation Rainfall. At least have all the info in one place. So annoyed.

Can we make this happen, please?

I cannot even begin to express my pure hatred at this pile of wank 50Hz business.

We seriously need to get the facts out there, set the record straight that NOE is chatting right out of its arse, and tell them to sort this damn mess out. Let them know otherwise that we will be boycotting the service or importing Wii Us, or hacking the things.
 
What about setting up a Tumblr with group access? Or we're you thinking about a dedicated site? I'll happily help.

I'm not clued up on the Rainfall thing.
 

mclem

Member
I'm not from Europe but that can't even be true these days, can it?

It's probably *literally* true, in that that there are probably more legacy televisions out there that don't support NTSC than current televisions which do, but in terms of families' primary televisions in households that are realistically likely to have a Wii U, the vast majority should support NTSC.
 

Lynd7

Member
It's probably *literally* true, in that that there are probably more legacy televisions out there that don't support NTSC than current televisions which do, but in terms of families' primary televisions in households that are realistically likely to have a Wii U, the vast majority should support NTSC.

I would say any tv post 2000 would likely support NTSC. 12 years is long enough, plus tons of people have upgraded to some form of LCD/Plasma, all of those screens support both.

For the site idea, I can't make sites or anything so someone would have to step in and begin organizing that. It's just an idea, but having a source with everything related to this issue in one place would be a good idea.
 

Dachande

Member
I would say any tv post 2000 would likely support NTSC.

More like than TV post 1995. I remember a 21" Amstrad one I had back in the Saturn days of 96 supporting NTSC just fine, and if you bought a new one at that point you damn well expected it to work.
 

Lynd7

Member
Yeah there were tons before then too, but I just used 2000 as a cut off. It's dumb, no one would run into an issue with not being able to display them these days.
 

jwhit28

Member
I live in the US but sent an email to NoE anyway. Here is the reply.

Thank you for your email regarding Virtual Console Balloon Fight.

Nintendo is grateful for the feedback we will forward the information on.

Regarding Virtual Console Balloon Fight featuring 60 Hz versions Nintendo has no official announcement about your query at this time.

We therefore apologize as we are unable to help you further, however you can keep updated for any further announcements or updates directly from us by signing up to our newsletter at www.nintendo.co.uk or by subscribing to the Official Nintendo Magazine, or by going on to the 'Nintendo Channel' via the Nintendo Wii Console, or alternatively by turning on your 'Home Notifications' on the Nintendo 3DS.


We hope this information helps you out, and we wish you a happy gaming experience.


Kind regards,


Mark,

Nintendo UK
Tel: 0845 6050 247
Fax: 0203 166 4136
 
I got the same response, word for word.

I sent a second email and got a different, shorter, less specific response.

It's probably *literally* true, in that that there are probably more legacy televisions out there that don't support NTSC than current televisions which do, but in terms of families' primary televisions in households that are realistically likely to have a Wii U, the vast majority should support NTSC.
Any TV that has HDMI supports 60Hz, so they could even keep any 60Hz option for HDMI users only.
 
I wrote this for elsewhere but thought I'd post it here, too.

At 30p this is a bargain, though the price will go up around the 20th of the month for this title. The next game will then be 30p for a month, and more expensive afterwards. And so on until summer.

However, as Europeans we are still getting a worse version of the game than the rest of the world.

What you get here runs at 50Hz - a slower speed than the game was originally meant to run at. It is also badly scaled, appearing blurry on both TV and Gamepad. Music and sound effects are also slower, and controls are not as responsive as they should be. I recommend watching a comparison video on YouTube by searching for "nintendomination".

"So what, it's only 30p!?"
Yes, but it is only 30p for a month, then it will be slow (and more expensive) forever.

Contrast this to the USA and JAP versions that run as the programmers (Iwata being one in the case of Balloon Fight!) originally intended - 60Hz. Faster, smoother, better scaling, no borders, more responsive controls. There is no competition.

"Why is this?"
Well, generally speaking, back in the 80s and 90s Europeans were using TVs that could only cope with our own TV signal - PAL. But games were written for the USA/JAP signal - NTSC. Instead of spending the time to reprogram parts of the NTSC games to suit PAL, games companies such as Nintendo took the lazy way out and simply let the 60Hz NTSC game code run 17.5% slower at 50Hz PAL.

And here we are today, still suffering the effects of that decision. There's no reason or excuse to still be living by this 30 year old decision in the days when consoles connect over HDMI, and every TV with HDMI supports 50Hz, 60Hz and more.

"But I remember it at 50Hz! So I want to play it at 50Hz"
Let me ask you this: if you first listened to a 7" record at the wrong speed - later finding out that you've been playing it too slowly - would you want to keep playing it slowly? I suspect not.

"How can this be fixed?"
Nintendo should give us the option of playing these games as originally intended - at 60Hz. In fact, they already do so on 3DS, but for done reason Wii, and now Wii U, are treated differently.
 
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