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[mclem]

But "optimised" 50hz games on Wii U are compromised twice over. First they have to skip every 6th frame to get the original speed, and then the Wii U duplicates every 5th frame outputting the games at 60hz, adding even more choppiness. So the games are actually choppier than we remember them. Incredible really.

Actually I'm not even sure how they optimise these games anyway. Do they just speed up the gameworld and keep animation frames for characters intact, making character animation slower, or do they skip frames for everything?

Depends on the game. It's much easier to change a polygonal game to 50Hz because it's trivial to work out interpolated positions relative to keyframes. You can't do that with sprites - the ideal solution but a lot of work is to redraw the sprites based on the new timestep, but that's generally not realistic. One method I've seen used - by Ikaruga on the GameCube - is to skip one frame of animation in every six, which results in a subtle jerkiness in the animations but retains smooth gameplay speed.


Edit: holy hell, Swype! Corrected trimester to timestep.

 

[beje]

So should I just cave in and get Kirby or should I carry on a protest that will likely not be noticed?

Protest on Miiverse, as it has been proven it works and they read. As soon as they get your money, they also get the message that it's completely OK to keep on half-assing and fucking customers over Euro VC games, no matter how much you scream later. That's how corporations work, if you don't hit them where they hurt the most (money makes the world go round...) they won't listen to you. At all. You know, the "vote with your wallet" stuff.

Right now, anybody purchasing inferior 50Hz versions (double inferior indeed, as they get extra choppiness with the conversion to 60Hz output) is part of the problem

 

[Neff]

Its likely to happen to both due to French and German. They might have also been "optimised" as well to make them not work properly at 60Hz (and still work badly at 50Hz) which would have been the best fix to this conundrum.

I don't know how it's going to work out for the rest of Europe, but Super Mario World seems to be an indicator that a language-dependent UK title can be acceptably swapped with its US counterpart. It was even originally optimised for speed in Europe, which makes the Kirby's Adventure debacle all the more puzzling after SMW's 60hz reveal. Super Metroid and Link to the Past should be safe, fingers crossed.

 

[Jucksalbe]

Super Mario World wasn't translated.

 

[KennyLinder]

Wii U VC in PAL territories. All games 60hz at launch (not sure about going forward!)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-26-wii-u-virtual-console-goes-live-in-europe-tomorrow

 

[Robin64]

Super Mario World wasn't translated.

Are you sure? I mean, you're probably right, it's just odd that the Mario Wiki lists locations and stuff in other languages.

For example, Forest of Illusion:

 

[Jucksalbe]

I think the GBA version was translated.

 

[nubbe]

I don't get why they won't put the PAL and NTSC ROM on the same emulator.
Have a HZ switch and please everyone

 

[Starwolf_UK]

I don't get why they won't put the PAL and NTSC ROM on the same emulator.
Have a HZ switch and please everyone

It took them one generation to get button config and abusable savestates (boo hiss...) options so it would be running before they could crawl that...

The only problem I can see with the ROM situation is when different publishers own the versions (so its copyright violation) or the game was named differently in Europe (e.g. River City Ransom > Street Gangs) or had chasnges (Contra > Probotector). Those changes are difficult as my friends seriously thought I was kidding when I was like "Contra never came out in Europe, instead we got Probotector which replaced the humans with robots" and likewise I knew what River City Ransom was but not Street Gangs.

 

[Bill Rizer]

I don't get why they won't put the PAL and NTSC ROM on the same emulator.
Have a HZ switch and please everyone

Nintendo should seriously give a look at Capcom Arcade Cabinet on PSN.
It's a pre-cps1 capcom coinop emulator, and each game has region select, fully customizable screen, scanline emulation, sound equalizer and comes with custom manuals and artworks.
That is how VC should have been first place (at least at the price Nintendo is asking for each title).

 

[Neff]

Super Mario World wasn't translated.

The intro and tutorials were in English all over Europe?

Well, damn.

 

[also]

Super Metroid will be 50 Hz
All localized Nintendo SNES games confirmed useless.

 

[Jucksalbe]

"Useless" is going too far. But they certainly could have been better. :-/

 

[Sendou]

"Useless" is going too far. But they certainly could have been better. :-/

"Useless" isn't going far enough.

 

[BGBW]

Well I guess I'll just finish the cartridge version I bought at a charity shop a year ago then.

Also it's a crappy localisation. I'm not French or German, I don't want subs I can only half read.

 

[frankie_baby]

Super Metroid will be 50 Hz
All localized Nintendo SNES games confirmed useless.

called it

 

[Jucksalbe]

Also it's a crappy localisation. I'm not French or German, I don't want subs I can only half read.

So, there's only the English and the German/French version and everyone not in the UK got the German/French version?

 

[frankie_baby]

So, there's only the English and the German/French version and everyone not in the UK got the German/French version?

people in the uk (well all europe) got the choice of english, french or german

 

[Silphonica]

I remember the same problem with Halo: CE.

I never knew why EU never got decent TVs in the 90s and early 2000s.

 

[Jethro]

50 hz....................

 

[BGBW]

Well the voice was in English, but you have to have the subtitles on in either French or German. For some reason (unless I'm extremely dumb) you can't turn it off.

le dernier Metroid iz in le captivité.
la galaxie iz at paix

 

[frankie_baby]

I remember the same problem with Halo: CE.

I never knew why EU never got decent TVs in the 90s and early 2000s.

60hz support was fairly common on new tvs back then but people kept their tvs a lot longer in those days so took a while to reach critical mass

 

[Robin64]

I'm honestly pretty damn annoyed at this. Super Metroid is my favourite game of all time, so the chance at seeing the proper version was an amazing dream.

Kirby's Adventure proved that "optimised" 50hz games are unresponsive and framey, but I could accept it for the slow-moving bumbling Kirby. But Super Metroid is about precision and speed. And frankly, I was hoping we could all compete in speed runs this time. But apparently not!

 

[Rich!]

Fucking bunch of assholes.

Won't be buying super metroid then, I'll stick with my NTSC cart. Cheers, Nintendo.

 

[frankie_baby]

Fucking bunch of assholes.

Won't be buying super metroid then, I'll stick with my NTSC cart. Cheers, Nintendo.

oh come on, fair point to whinge about but its only 30p

 

[Cosmonaut X]

I'm honestly pretty damn annoyed at this. Super Metroid is my favourite game of all time, so the chance at seeing the proper version was an amazing dream.

Kirby's Adventure proved that "optimised" 50hz games are unresponsive and framey, but I could accept it for the slow-moving bumbling Kirby. But Super Metroid is about precision and speed. And frankly, I was hoping we could all compete in speed runs this time. But apparently not!

Complain, complain, complain. There's an opportunity for NoE to correct this when the game comes to the VC "officially", and there's more chance of that if players complain about it on Miiverse and raise it either directly with NoE or through sites like Eurogamer.

NoE have set a precedent with 60Hz releases of all the other VC titles so far (not counting the promotional Balloon Fight) and that adds some weight to complaints here.

 

[Hasney]

I remember the same problem with Halo: CE.

I never knew why EU never got decent TVs in the 90s and early 2000s.

The PAL standard was better, especially for actual TV broadcast due to it having more lines and better colour-encoding.

 

[Rich!]

oh come on, fair point to whinge about but its only 30p

So, why should I support Nintendo for an inferior product?

I wanted gamepad play for one of my favourite games. However, they're offering a version that is significantly worse than what the rest of the world is getting.

nah. Not buying it. I'll carry on hoping that the console gets hacked to high hell so I can play my NTSC collection through emulation.

 

[frankie_baby]

So, why should I support Nintendo for an inferior product?

I wanted gamepad play for one of my favourite games. However, they're offering a version that is significantly worse than what the rest of the world is getting.

nah. Not buying it. I'll carry on hoping that the console gets hacked to high hell so I can play my NTSC collection through emulation.

because you won't get the chance to buy it at that price again and if they do ever do anything about it you'll have to pay full price (then again £5.50 for super metroid is still a bargain)

 

[Robin64]

nah. Not buying it. I'll carry on hoping that the console gets hacked to high hell so I can play my NTSC collection through emulation.

This. Let's hope people can install US VC games if they want.

 

[BGBW]

oh come on, fair point to whinge about but its only 30p

So? It's about sending a message. We want the superior product. It's only "30p" for the rest of the world and yet they get it in 60Hz.

 

[Ban Puncher]

Super Metroid will be 50 Hz
All localized Nintendo SNES games confirmed useless.

 

[Rich!]

because you won't get the chance to buy it at that price again and if they do ever do anything about it you'll have to pay full price (then again £5.50 for super metroid is still a bargain)

Who gives a shit. I own both the NTSC and PAL versions on cart, and I would happily pay even £10 for a gamepad compatible version of the proper one (NTSC). I wouldn't take the PAL version for 5p. It doesnt fucking matter how much it is. Absolutely insulting that we are still being forced this crap in 2013, and I completely refuse to support it.

 

[Jucksalbe]

So, why should I support Nintendo for an inferior product?
[..]
nah. Not buying it. I'll carry on hoping that the console gets hacked to high hell so I can play my NTSC collection through emulation.

So, you'll skip this inferior version to wait to play a different inferior version?

 

[SenkiDala]

Personally I bought Ballon Fight at the 30cent release, I saw it was in 50hz, since then I didn't buy anything on this store, and I won't until it's not in 60hz. You should all do the same, then maybe they'll think again... MAYBE.

 

[Rich!]

So, you'll skip this inferior version to wait to play a different inferior version?

What? If Wii homebrew is anything to go by, it will be better than what Nintendo offers.

I have Yoshi's Island on my Wii and it runs brilliantly. It's in 60hz too. Did Nintendo ever offer that? Hell no.

 

[frankie_baby]

So? It's about sending a message. We want the superior product. It's only "30p" for the rest of the world and yet they get it in 60Hz.

you think they'll notice the message when thousands buy it anyway, if people want to send a message try miiverse

 

[frankie_baby]

Who gives a shit. I own both the NTSC and PAL versions on cart, and I would happily pay even £10 for a gamepad compatible version of the proper one (NTSC). I wouldn't take the PAL version for 5p. It doesnt fucking matter how much it is. Absolutely insulting that we are still being forced this crap in 2013, and I completely refuse to support it.

so 4p and you'd think about it?

 

[Rich!]

so 4p and you'd think about it?

Did you not read the sentence afterwards?

I wouldn't take it if it was free and came with Scarlett Johansson for the night. Its about sending a message. I'm not going to support a company that screws over its loyal customers.

 

[JODOROWSKY51]

Perfect.

If only we could post this gif on Miiverse.

Also, SM's legacy and genius is far more important than a 30p price tag.

People wouldn't buy a Blu Ray of Blade Runner if it had VHS quality, so screw 50hz SM.

 

[frankie_baby]

Did you not read the sentence afterwards?

I wouldn't take it if it was free and came with Scarlett Johansson for the night. Its about sending a message. I'm not going to support a company that screws over its loyal customers.

how about scarlet johansson for two nights?

 

[Rich!]

how about scarlet johansson for two nights?

I'm not even going to bother.

No.

 

[Sendou]

Did you not read the sentence afterwards?

I wouldn't take it if it was free and came with Scarlett Johansson for the night. Its about sending a message. I'm not going to support a company that screws over its loyal customers.

Amen. Except the Scarlett Johansson part.

 

[BGBW]

you think they'll notice the message when thousands buy it anyway, if people want to send a message try miiverse

If only there was a way for them to know you are complaining and haven't bought the game.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Personally I bought Ballon Fight at the 30cent release, I saw it was in 50hz, since then I didn't buy anything on this store, and I won't until it's not in 60hz. You should all do the same, then maybe they'll think again... MAYBE.

Are you kidding me. These people are so dense they think a few games in the fall will turn this trainwreck of a console launch into a nice shiny butterfly.

One can only imagine the nonsense that the people at NOE come up with when justifying this crap. I guess it's part of their legacy to conserve their early 90s incompetence.

This company truly needs a humbling. You'd think their complete irrelevance in all markets that aren't Japan would wake them up, but obviously the hubris from all the Wii/DS success is still a potent drug to cloud them from the reality.

I'm still buying Super Metroid for 30p, as I know they'll never release a 60hz version in Europe. They simply don't give a shit, and with the WiiU being completely hacked by now anyway, I'll just wait for a homebrew channel to play the proper version. End of.

 

[Desiato]

I knew it'd exist if I GIS'ed it.

EDIT: Whoops, off to a good start of a new page lol

 

[Cosmonaut X]

The Super Mario World community is already seeing complaints about this, so I'd encourage anyone who has a Miiverse account to go and make your dissatisfaction known there.

 

[Jethro]

The Super Mario World community is already seeing complaints about this, so I'd encourage anyone who has a Miiverse account to go and make your dissatisfaction known there.

I already posted some comments there. (SirJethro)

 

[Cosmonaut X]

I already posted some comments there. (SirJethro)

Cool - I'm on there as "Richard", posting just under you I think.

 

[fabricated backlash]

The Super Mario World community is already seeing complaints about this, so I'd encourage anyone who has a Miiverse account to go and make your dissatisfaction known there.

Why bother though. They read the Balloon Fight outrage and never bothered to go back to it. They won't change anything.

It's time we accept that the people at NOE have a special condition. There won't be any change unless they crash the car into the ditch.

It's kind of funny to see them act as if they'd still matter.