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[Salazar]

we have the responsibility to re-address such things.

Bullshit. This is verging on the posture of that creep who wanted to "fix" Huckleberry Finn.

Edit: No, you seem even more deranged than he did.

 

[daviyoung]

Not to mention that the chances are good it would be a tolkein black character.

Nice

 

[soundscream]

There was an article a couple years back that said if you looked at lord ot the rings from a diffrent view point Sauron was the good guy. History is written by the victor so since the elves and humans won it would favor their side of the story, but the other side was made up of more races. So in the end you could view Sauron was more about equal rights according to the article.

 

[Funky Papa]

EDIT: Read your post above. So perhaps then Peter Jackson or elements of Hollywood itself instead are/were racist?

Show your junk so I can kick it to my pleasure.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

In return I ask white people to stop hiring white actors to play Egyptians.

No deal.

 

[Nickovic]

 

[Shanadeus]

There was an article a couple years back that said if you looked at lord ot the rings from a diffrent view point Sauron was the good guy. History is written by the victor so since the elves and humans won it would favor their side of the story, but the other side was made up of more races. So in the end you could view Sauron was more about equal rights according to the article.

So the aryan super force of elves, humans and hobbits beat the multi-cultural alliance of enlightened brothers and sisters?

Neat theory.

 

[nib95]

Bullshit. This is verging on the posture of that creep who wanted to "fix" Huckleberry Finn.

I'm not educated on the topic you're referring to with Huckleberry Finn. But It could have easily been addressed with LotR. HUNDREDS, maybe even THOUSANDS of good guys cast, and not a single one of them Black or Brown? It's bewildering.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

I'm not sympathetic to idiotic hand-wringing. Actual racism is a different story.

Also, less of the fair-skinned. I might have blue eyes but I rock a killer tan.

Your arse looks like an unshaven Toby Maguire. Micromist tanning spray doesn't count Dave.

 

[Morn]

Its a tale of fantasy, about elves and wizards. Published in the 50's.

Are we honestly expecting black/brown people to be portrayed well, if at all?


I don't think there should be any brown/black people in the lotr, if it hasn't been written that way, then there is no reason to insert one just for the sake of PC. In fact, it'd be an insult to minorities; "Here, have one black character. Now go and generate us revenue".


In return I ask white people to stop hiring white actors to play Egyptians.

PC and when it was written has nothing to do with it. LOTR was meant as a mythic pre-history of England to give it a native legend, which the country lacked as stuff like King Arthur was actually imported from other countries like Ireland.

Tolkien designed Middle-Earth to resemble England some 2,000 years before recorded history. That's why in the movies they tried to match up the Hobbit accents with the areas of the UK that sort of match up with the Middle-Earth map.

Unfortunately people today are too fucking stupid to research context on ANYTHING and just want to throw a fit and make everything politically correct to fit whatever whacked out ideology they were indoctrinated with by some idiot college professor.

 

[ToxicAdam]

It depresses me that people with the midset like the OP exist.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I'm not educated on the topic you're referring to with Huckleberry Finn. But It could have easily been addressed with LotR. HUNDREDS, maybe even THOUSANDS of good guys cast, and not a single one of them Black or Brown? It's bewildering.

So you are being pissy at the casting more than the actual LOTR fiction now?

 

[Raist]

Were characters in the LotR racist? Yes, definitely. Although those who got over it won in the end.

Is the story itself racist, or its author? Not at all. Quite the opposite actually.

 

[Alucrid]

I'm not educated on the topic you're referring to with Huckleberry Finn. But It could have easily been addressed with LotR. HUNDREDS, maybe even THOUSANDS of good guys cast, and not a single one of them Black or Brown? It's bewildering.

Fine. We'll do a LOTR redux with good black and brown people. In return the Quran has to give Mohammad black, white and asian best friends.

 

[daviyoung]

HUNDREDS, maybe even THOUSANDS of good guys cast, and not a single one of them Black or Brown? It's bewildering.

Why were no tall people cast to play Ewoks?

 

[Morn]

I'm not educated on the topic you're referring to with Huckleberry Finn. But It could have easily been addressed with LotR. HUNDREDS, maybe even THOUSANDS of good guys cast, and not a single one of them Black or Brown? It's bewildering.

If someone made a historical fantasy epic set in a mythical pre-history of the Middle East, like a LOTR-style Aladdin...and cast white people in it; you'd have a point. But the complaint you're making is like doing a King Arthur moving and bitching that he's played by a white guy.

 

[Human_Shield]

In return I ask white people to stop hiring white actors to play Egyptians.

Hey, if I want to have Vincent Price and Yul Brenner be my idealized version of Egyptians, then I will!

 

[soundscream]

So the aryan super force of elves, humans and hobbits beat the multi-cultural alliance of enlightened brothers and sisters?

Neat theory.

That was the conclusion they came up with. I don't think it was true but its good to look at things from a diffrent perspective from time to time.

 

[nib95]

So you are being pissy at the casting more than the actual LOTR fiction now?

Bit of both. But my stance is that racism was a lot more rife back in the days. Doesn't mean it has to be transfered over to the current. Whilst the main characters may have been described as White, not saying Aaragon, Legolas etc should have been of a different colour. But there was nothing in the Novels as far as I could tell that stated not a single one of the thousands or hundreds of thousands of good Rohans, Elves, Drawrfs, Hobbits or Gondorians were Black or Brown.

 

[Veidt]

Hey, if I want to have Vincent Price and Yul Brenner be my idealized version of Egyptians, then I will!

Hmm..
Yul Brenner was awesome.

Something funny: Yul means "Bald" in my native tongue.

edit:

Hollywood, don't think I've still forgotten about what you did to me with Black Hawk Down!

Not a single Somali person? Really?

 

[Salazar]

I'm not educated on the topic you're referring to with Huckleberry Finn. But It could have easily been addressed with LotR. HUNDREDS, maybe even THOUSANDS of good guys cast, and not a single one of them Black or Brown? It's bewildering.

Racial types in fantasy fiction are extraordinarily, indeed fantastically and bewilderingly, homogeneous. You wouldn't be wrong in finding this peculiar. You wouldn't be silly to be alienated by it.

But you start from absurd premises in wanting an adaptation of such work to be realistic as regards the racial composition of a world radically different from the one represented. Have a go at Jeunet for excising black Parisians from Amelie. You're on more firm ground.

 

[Sir Garbageman]

Could someone post the quotes from Tolkien where he states that Saurons human underlings aren't evil, just mislead?

I think he also stated that orcs weren't absolutely evil, just twisted and corrupted.

There is a passage in the Two Towers iirc where Sam is watching a battle between Faramir and his band against some of the enemy and he wonders what brought them to this point, if the enemy was mislead and lied to, if he has a wife and kids at home etc.

I'll see if I can find it.

 

[MisterHero]

If someone made a historical fantasy epic set in a mythical pre-history of the Middle East, like a LOTR-style Aladdin...and cast white people in it; you'd have a point. But the complaint you're making is like doing a King Arthur moving and bitching that he's played by a white guy.

Prince of Persia lol

but who would want to be in that movie the way that it was

 

[Souldriver]

Book is written by a white guy in a white euro-centric society based on Anglo-Saxon mythology.

That all the main characters are also white doesn't really surprise me, as it is just a reflection of Tolkiens environment. That the bad guys in the book are non-whites is something else off course. But to idea that "lack of representation of minority x" equals racism/discrimination is often uttered, yet rarely true. It's like complaining over the lack of white people in the folklore of African tribes.

 

[Veidt]

Derived from what I said above

OP should be glad they haven't made a film about Pakistan, where not a single Pakistani person is on screen.

Because thats what they did to Somalia in Black Hawk Down.

At least hire Ethiopians or something.. fuck man.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

There weren't enough minorities in King of Queens either.

 

[Salazar]

Prince of Persia lol

but who would want to be in that movie the way that it was

It was diverting enough. Richard Coyle was ok as the daft Prince.

 

[Funky Papa]

I don't think there should be any brown/black people in the lotr, if it hasn't been written that way, then there is no reason to insert one just for the sake of PC. In fact, it'd be an insult to minorities; "Here, have one black character. Now go and generate us revenue".

If we are talking about the ridiculous treatment of race in Hollywood (which is not a problem in LoTR), I'm far more bewildered by the unusual amounts of black people casually waltzing around in modern films and TV shows set in Rome.

Apparently, there was some affirmative action BS going on that benefited African slaves over European ones when it came to achieving liberti status. Suck it, blondies!

 

[buy teh haloz]

The notion that not including a certain minority (where it makes sense to, anyway) equals racism is ridiculous.

 

[Alucrid]

If we are talking about the ridiculous treatment of race in Hollywood (which is not a problem in LoTR), I'm far more bewildered by the unusual amounts of black people casually waltzing around in modern films and TV shows set in Rome.

Apparently, there was some affirmative action BS going on that benefited African slaves over European ones when it came to achieving liberti status. Suck it, blondies!

There was quite a lot of Africans in Rome...not all of them slaves either.

 

[Raist]

But there was nothing in the Novels as far as I could tell that stated not a single one of the thousands or hundreds of thousands of good Rohans, Elves, Drawrfs, Hobbits or Gondorians were Black or Brown. Which is why I'm perplexed not a single one exists in the Trilogy.

Why no mention of Asians? That's racist D:

 

[BattleMonkey]

Bit of both. But my stance is that racism was a lot more rife back in the days. Doesn't mean it has to be transfered over to the current. Whilst the main characters may have been described as White, not saying Aaragon, Legolas etc should have been of a different colour. But there was nothing in the Novels as far as I could tell that stated not a single one of the thousands or hundreds of thousands of good Rohans, Elves, Drawrfs, Hobbits or Gondorians were Black or Brown.

It's more in keeping with the times. The story is set in a "ye olde timey" setting where racial divisions were very common. Even amongst the white peoples, there was always also divides and in most cases a person could tell where someone is from because of simple features or traits. The elves all live in their elven lands by themselves, the hobbits all together, dwarves, etc. It's based off historical settings and it is also a product of technology as well as it further pressed the issue of keeping races seperate. It's natural in such a setting that you have very narrow spectrum of racial diversity.

 

[Tobor]

It's that there aren't any good guys that are Black, even Brown, not that I've noticed so far anyway.

"Always forgotten. As soon we get our wives back, we're out of here, fuckers."

It's a silly argument for all the reasons said above, but really, why does it matter? Should we scrub fiction and history of anything that can be misinterpreted by modern audiences? What would that serve but to allow us to forget the past?

 

[Night_Trekker]

I just can't imagine watching LoTR and worrying about the racial makeup of the mythical cast.

I think the modern world has too much free time on its hands.

.

 

[Zzoram]

When I read the books, there was a character described as darker skinned. I can't remember who it was, it's been years now, but I think he was Boromir's brother. Maybe Tolkien just meant tanned white guy, I dunno.

 

[Funky Papa]

There was quite a lot of Africans in Rome...not all of them slaves either.

Sure, but you have to recognize that the amount of seemengly free black African citizens (as oppossed to Mediterranean ones) is not exactly correct with what we know about Rome.

When I read the books, there was a character described as darker skinned. I can't remember who it was, it's been years now, but I think he was Boromir's brother. Maybe Tolkien just meant tanned white guy, I dunno.

The mythical Black Irish!

 

[nib95]

It's more in keeping with the times. The story is set in a "ye olde timey" setting where racial divisions were very common. Even amongst the white peoples, there was always also divides and in most cases a person could tell where someone is from because of simple features or traits. The elves all live in their elven lands by themselves, the hobbits all together, dwarves, etc. It's based off historical settings and it is also a product of technology as well as it further pressed the issue of keeping races seperate. It's natural in such a setting that you have very narrow spectrum of racial diversity.

Keeping with the times would have meant more multi-cultural casting. You mean in keeping with the old times? Way I see it is, the novels left the make up of the good races themselves open ended, but Hollywood/Jackson decided to go through stead fast with the White people play the good, Dark people play the bad thing.

Even fictionally speaking, it seems stupid that over thousands of years not a single one of the darker people of the other races (Easterlings lol) have migrated or mixed with the White folk of the West, Rohans, Elves, Drawrfs, Hobbits, Gondorians etc.

 

[Sol..]

i will always enjoy telling my white friends that white people love fantasy stories and worlds because there are no colored people (except Marlon Wayans).

 

[Chuckie]

When I read the books, there was a character described as darker skinned. I can't remember who it was, it's been years now, but I think he was Boromir's brother. Maybe Tolkien just meant tanned white guy, I dunno.

Isn't it Faramir who describes a dead Haradrim as someone with a tanned skin and black hair with golden stuff in it.

 

[neorej]

 

[Shanadeus]

When I read the books, there was a character described as darker skinned. I can't remember who it was, it's been years now, but I think he was Boromir's brother. Maybe Tolkien just meant tanned white guy, I dunno.

Faramir was black?
Fucking white washing Hollywood!

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Nah.

 

[Alucrid]

Keeping with the times would have meant more multi-cultural casting. You mean in keeping with the old times? Way I see it is, the novels left the make up of the good races themselves open ended, but Hollywood/Jackson decided to go through stead fast with the White people play the good, Dark people play the bad thing.

Even fictionally speaking, it seems stupid that over thousands of years not a single one of the darker people of the other races (Easterlings lol) have migrated or mixed with the White folk of the West, Rohans, Elves, Drawrfs, Hobbits, Gondorians etc.

I don't see why you made this thread considering your position on the issue is set and despite what anyone might say or show otherwise you'll continue to see it as racist. Your reasoning is ridiculous and you aren't acknowledging or refuse to believe the reasons laid out as to why it is written as it is.

 

[Zzoram]

Isn't it Faramir who describes a dead Haradrim as someone with a tanned skin and black hair with golden stuff in it.

What does this mean? I don't remember what a Harardrim is.

 

[captmcblack]

holy shit, it's lord of the rings.

no, there are no secret racist undertones.

this is obfuscation from the "if everything can be racist, then nothing really is" school.

it's LORD OF THE GODDAMN RINGS

 

[Alucrid]

What does this mean? I don't remember what a Harardrim is.

I haven't read the book in a long time, but I'm pretty sure they're the ones who ride the oliphants.

 

[-NeoTB1-]

Bullshit. This is verging on the posture of that creep who wanted to "fix" Huckleberry Finn.

Edit: No, you seem even more deranged than he did.

Exactly. This is so fucking stupid.

 

[jorma]

Faramir was black?
Fucking white washing Hollywood!

No, he was actually a whiter shade of pale. Zzoram misremembers.

The Haradrim are the brownskinned bad guys. They look cool as fuck in the movies though.

 

[Seep]

No, it's Light vs Dark not White vs Black.

If you look hard enough you could make almost anything seem racist in some way.

 

[Chuckie]

What does this mean? I don't remember what a Harardrim is.

A guy from the south