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[thestatics]

So there's been a lot of comments saying the same thing as the underlined (sorry to single you out supaflyryguy). Quite frankly, this has no basis in reality whatsoever. Whole lot of people equating this situation to "a wrong on one side, a wrong on the other, cancels each other out." Again, this interpretation of the situation couldn't be further from the truth. There's a reason why laws exist and there's also a reason why one's personal subjective morals have absolutely no effect on the law whatsoever. I know NeoGAF is a place where people try and be as fair/impartial as possible but seeing things in the above way is simply NOT how things work. Free speech in a public forum is almost always allowed. Going back on a legally-binding contract is almost never allowed. Anyone thinking that these two are the same issues need to give their heads a shake.

OP, did you give ShopTo any money on your preorder already? If so, you've provided consideration on your agreement to purchase the console when it comes out and the law would almost surely recognize this as a legally binding contract. Their term of "we can cancel whenever we want on whoever we want" is almost surely not legally binding, as it in effect states, "we do not intend to be legally bound to a contract which would be recognized as being legally binding". This is not how contracts work and this is not how a retailer gets out of a contract.

This in no way should be considered legal advice but if you gave ShopTo any money at all (and this really is key here, if you didn't give them money, you're likely fucked), there's a good chance you'd have a case in small claims court. Whether that's worth your time or money, and whether you'd actually win or not is completely up to you/UK law. The fact of this matter is, what OP did in no way shape or form provides any legal justification for cancellation of his preorder.

Small Claims Court - for what loss? "Yes your honour, I didn't get my PS4 on release day"..... "GTFO". People recommending stuff like this is mindboggling.

 

[Azull]

I don't but my parents do.

If someone said fuck you or whatever to me then I wouldn't want their business.

Except carl said fuck shopto to his friend, not to the twitter account. Reading.

Why would a Canadian e-newsletter company give me a PS4?

We Canadians separated from the UK over a hundred years ago sir.

 

[Ravensmash]

I'm on ShopTo's side here, sorry OP but you shouldn't have been rude.


No, people who act like assholes don't deserve to be pandered to. I'd rather have lose some business than have to pander to assholes. It's one thing to complain appropriately and one thing to act like a prick. OP should've been more civil in his criticism.

If you did own a business, then you'd quickly learn that criticism from your customers can be a valuable resource.

I'm interested in knowing why you believe OP was 'acting like a prick', compared to the member of staff cancelling his preorder and closing his account over a separate message posted on social media.

Edit:

If ShopTo simply come out and say that the actions of said staff member were not in line with the company's policies and apologises/reverses the action then this can become something of a non-issue.

 

[stump sock]

 

[Paches]

Really? So people who swear at a shop's workers still get served? That's the norm in the world, because I'm pretty sure it isn't.

Yes, they do. Working in retail (Target) while going to college taught me a lot about rude customers. Also, he never directed his tweet to ShopTo, he was talking to a friend. Context is important.

 

[Ovek]

It's shopto does anyone really expect anything different?

 

[Zabant]

Ha, imagine if companies like AT&T cancelled peoples accounts every time they said something bad about them on twitter.

 

[VE3TRO]

It was a public conversation that could be accessed by anyone with an internet connection, if I'm reading this right.

If you post something on a non private Twitter account what reasonable expectation do you have of privacy? ShopTo have been shitty here no question but don't go looking for privacy on Twitter.

Well it's not if you're posting it on the internets and most certainly Twitter.

Yea ignore what I said I thought the OP had his Twitter account private

 

[RaikuHebi]

Ok he didn't direct his tweet to ShopTo. I take everything back, I made a mistake, I was wrong in my previous posts.

Sounds like a winning formula for failure you've got there.



Canadian?

I may be just a naive young 20-something, but I doubt there are many businesses that would serve someone who swears at them directly (which I now understand the OP didn't do). I'm also a bit of an idealist I suppose, which doesn't seem to be popular in mainstream Western thinking. Everything is cynical, scientific, all for the dollar/pound. Things like this would've never happened in the good old days of our village/small-town ancestors where common decency prevailed over hard profits.

 

[Jezbollah]

Yeah, but he didn't say "fuck you" to one person, because I do agree with that, he said it to the company. Seriouly, people curse at companies all the time. I have done the whole customer service bit, very rarely does someone attack an employee directly, it's generally, as it was in this case, the company.

It's a completely different mindset you need to engage in when dealing with the public.

You need to read the thread (or this link: http://videogamescene.com/uk-retailer-cancels-customers-ps4-preorder-over-twitter-comments/ ) - he never said anything to the company directly. The company used a T&C clause that was meant to be used in the case he DID say something directly to them.

 

[Baby Milo]

this is pathetic on this companies part

#FuckShopto

 

[Into]

How anyone can defend ShopTo on this is beyond my understanding.

Because they flat out do not understand how business works. They are viewing this from a very different angle than it should be viewed, its a very naive angle and quite frankly, out of touch with reality.

 

[SymbiantXenos]

Soon to be raining PS4's

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

It's unbelievable how some people are actually defending ShopTo.

 

[mr teaspoon]

Small Claims Court - for what loss? "Yes your honour, I didn't get my PS4 on release day"..... "GTFO". People recommending stuff like this is mindboggling.

lol, exactly. Feels so good to see other people say what I'm thinking.

I may be just a naive young 20-something, but I doubt there are many businesses that would serve someone who swears at them directly (which I now understand the OP didn't do). I'm also a bit of an idealist I suppose, which doesn't seem to be popular in mainstream Western thinking. Everything is cynical, scientific, all for the dollar/pound. Things like this would've never happened in the good old days of our ancestors where common decency prevailed over hard profits.

I lack the vocabulary to express just how much my skin is crawling at everything you wrote.

 

[theRizzle]

Because they flat out do not understand how business works. They are viewing this from a very different angle than it should be viewed, its a very naive angle and quite frankly, out of touch with reality.

My god no kidding. Some of these posts... lol

My prediction is ShopTo's response will be to cancel all user accounts and make everyone resubmit their information with the addition of a 500 word essay on why ShopTo is wicked sick

 

[mikelb7]

Small Claims Court - for what loss? "Yes your honour, I didn't get my PS4 on release day"..... "GTFO". People recommending stuff like this is mindboggling.

People making legal statements who have no idea whatsoever about the law is even more mindboggling, quite frankly.

I wish I was making this stuff up, but 500+ years of precedence has done this for me. If you really care, you may want to do some reading. Give "Breach of contract", "consideration", "social importance of maintaining legally binding contracts" a quick google. You may actually learn something new today

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

You need to read the thread (or this link: http://videogamescene.com/uk-retailer-cancels-customers-ps4-preorder-over-twitter-comments/ ) - he never said anything to the company directly. The company used a T&C clause that was meant to be used in the case he DID say something directly to them.

I know it wasn't direct, I meant in more of a general, overall "fuck shopto" sort of sense.

 

[RaikuHebi]

It's unbelievable how some people are actually defending ShopTo.

I misunderstood and thought OP swore at them directly. Many others did the same.

 

[Liha]

This guys are childish.

209.442 tweets? You are the king of twitter!

 

[Colonel Nasty]

It's unbelievable how some people are actually defending ShopTo.

I like to think I'm pointing out the OP was a dick more than defending Shopto.

Shopto was a dick too in case nobody got that

 

[malboroking]

I'm on ShopTo's side here, sorry OP but you shouldn't have been rude.


No, people who act like assholes don't deserve to be pandered to. I'd rather have lose some business than have to pander to assholes. It's one thing to complain appropriately and one thing to act like a prick. OP should've been more civil in his criticism.

This is incredibly silly. He did not tweet to Shopto with these comments, these were comments made to a friend. So if you have a private conversation with a friend outside of a retail store, and someone who works at that store is walking down the street and hears you, you think it is in their right to retaliate?

 

[Squire]

Probably should have DM'd your friend the "fuck you", OP.

I'm not saying ShopTo are justified but you were kind of provoking.

I think both sides are guilty. Sorry you lost your PS4 pre-order.

Yep. Genuinely sorry, OP, but karma's a bitch.

 

[Heimbeck]

Except carl said fuck shopto to his friend, not to the twitter account. Reading.



We Canadians separated from the UK over a hundred years ago sir.

I don't understand.
Is this how twitter works, Shopto can find out anything said about them on twitter?

 

[BHZ Mayor]

It's unbelievable how some people are actually defending ShopTo.

Some people apparently really pledge their allegiance to corporations.

 

[Coxy]

How anyone can defend ShopTo on this is beyond my understanding.

a fine mix of them being bred to defend companies and being illiterate and/or lazy fucks who cant/wont read what it written

 

[RaikuHebi]

This is incredibly stupid. He did not tweet to Shopto with these comments, these were comments made to a friend. So if you have a private conversation with a friend outside of a retail store, and someone who works at that store is walking down the street and hears you, you think it is in their right to retaliate?

Fucking ridiculous.

I didn't realise that but now I do. I was wrong in my previous posts and made a mistake.

a fine mix of them being bred to defend companies and being illiterate and/or lazy fucks who cant/wont read what it written

Or you know. They were raised to look down upon people acting rudely. Though I realise the OP didn't do that and was talking with his friend.

 

[ridethepiggy]

I misunderstood and thought OP swore at them directly. Many others did the same.

And if he did? So if I swear at Comcast on Twitter they should cancel my service?

 

[theRizzle]

I misunderstood and thought OP swore at them directly. Many others did the same.

Because like you, many others didn't read the information presented

 

[malboroking]

I didn't realise that but now I do. I was wrong in my previous posts and made a mistake.

NP, I was a bit harsh and edited it =P

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

I'm sorry to sound like a dick, but it sounds like you know absolutely nothing about contract law and the remedies one is entitled to upon breach of contract. This is especially true if OP can't go get another preorder from somewhere else.

Exactly what rights is ShopTo exercising here? I can tell you with almost certainty that they aren't legally recognized ones. Sorry to say but supaflyryguy's personal view of the situation and what's fair has no bearing on the reality/legality of the situation. Illegality doesn't necessarily imply criminality. ShopTo entered into a (likely) legally binding contract with OP, and OP (if he provided consideration) is entitled to the value he lost (i.e. his PS4) by having the contract breached. Saying "fuck you" on a public forum has no bearing on this situation whatsoever and reputation/foolishness of this decision plays no part either.

Er... I'm not sure if you know your contract law as well.

 

[Hex]

LOL that is awesome

 

[thestatics]

People making legal statements who have no idea whatsoever about the law is even more mindboggling, quite frankly.

I wish I was making this stuff up, but 500+ years of precedence has done this for me. If you really care, you may want to do some reading. Give "Breach of contract", "consideration", "social importance of maintaining legally binding contracts" a quick google. You may actually learn something new today

So what loss has he experienced? You know, the loss he would need to be suing for via the small claims court? Videogame heartache?

And, did shopto take his payment as required to form the contract per their T&C's?

 

[Ravensmash]

It's shopto does anyone really expect anything different?

Personally, yes. I expect better of them.

I've been using them for a number of years, and have always had positive experiences - including with their customer services department.

Reading about stuff like this really sours my perception of them, regardless of how I've been treated.

Frankly, what OP said or where he said it, or whatever is actually pretty irrelevant in this instance. The fact is, the response from was highly unprofessional.

 

[Sendou]

What's up with retailers screwing up console pre-orders? I have some of my own experiences on that sector.

Thanks OP for showing which retailer to avoid when ordering from the UK.

 

[RaikuHebi]

Because like you, many others didn't read the information presented

Indeed, I only read the convo with ShopTo. Usually I'm not one of these mindless types who rushes in blind. I feel quite ashamed.

But I won't budge on my whole "common decency over profits" angle.

And if he did? So if I swear at Comcast on Twitter they should cancel my service?

Yes. I really dislike rude behaviour. The internet shouldn't be a shield.

 

[Jezbollah]

So what loss has he experienced? You know, the loss he would need to be suing for via the small claims court? Videogame heartache?

And, did shopto take his payment as required to form the contract per their T&C's?

The small claims court would be if any payment was taken.

 

[djjinx2]

Not really on at all, lets see what they say.

Shopto used to be the cheapest UK site that I knew, and you would even get the odd game sent before release.

Havent used them for years as their prices have crept up considerably!

 

[stump sock]

And if he did? So if I swear at Comcast on Twitter they should cancel my service?

uh, as someone who has done this... many times... they were more than happy to continue taking my money.

regarding how ShopTo even saw it, as I said, I do this stuff as part of my job. We have all kinds of searches and filters set up to pick up on mentions of the company or our services. It doesn't have to be an @ reply.

 

[dr_octagon]

OP was more polite to them than they deserve. He doesn't need to explain anything because it's none of their business. Equating this to being abusive is nonsense. And even if you don't like what was said, it reads as a joke (also has a smiley). The person who wrote that DM, representing a company, was being a cunt. The customer service they demonstrated is far more offensive than the tweet.

 

[Sethos]

ShopTo is going to be all like

 

[wotta]

Hi Guys,

I've spoke to my boss and hopefully sorted this out (it ain't my area of expertise so please don't abuse me, I'm only trying to help sort this situation out).

I will issue a statement soon on the ShopTo News site.

Joe
Editor
ShopTo News

 

[JaseMath]

This is outrageous. OP didn't deserve to be treated like that.

 

[theRizzle]

It's my experience that when someone expresses distaste with your business and it's practices, the best way to change their opinion is to act even shittier.

 

[Alucrid]

"Shopto has canceled all of NeoGAF's preorders. Please DM us your account numbers. Thank you."

 

[ScaryMovies]

2Game, getting some of dat sweet sweet positive PR:
https://twitter.com/PooWithEyes/status/389453165143146496

 

[LiquidSolid]

I may be just a naive young 20-something, but I doubt there are many businesses that would serve someone who swears at them directly (which I now understand the OP didn't do). I'm also a bit of an idealist I suppose, which doesn't seem to be popular in mainstream Western thinking. Everything is cynical, scientific, all for the dollar/pound. Things like this would've never happened in the good old days of our ancestors where common decency prevailed over hard profits.

What. I'm finding it hard to tell if this is a parody or not but that fantasy land you're dreaming of never existed.

 

[Rouse]

Free PS4's for all the users in this thread, then we forgive you shopto.

Yeah Shopto, dont forget that im here too!

 

[RulkezX]

I'm sorry to sound like a dick, but it sounds like you know absolutely nothing about contract law and the remedies one is entitled to upon breach of contract. This is especially true if OP can't go get another preorder from somewhere else.

Exactly what rights is ShopTo exercising here? I can tell you with almost certainty that they aren't legally recognized ones. Sorry to say but supaflyryguy's personal view of the situation and what's fair has no bearing on the reality/legality of the situation. Illegality doesn't necessarily imply criminality. ShopTo entered into a (likely) legally binding contract with OP, and OP (if he provided consideration) is entitled to the value he lost (i.e. his PS4) by having the contract breached. Saying "fuck you" on a public forum has no bearing on this situation whatsoever and reputation/foolishness of this decision plays no part either.

PLEASE NOTE: Pre-paying for your preorder does not constitute confirmation of contract

Acceptance of your order and the formation of a contract between you and us will take place when we send you an email confirming that the products you have ordered are being despatched to you, unless we have notified you that we do not accept your order or you have already cancelled it.

If you decide to cancel a paid pre-order funds paid will appear in your *********** account balance.
In the event of a pre-order dropping in price we will credit the difference paid back to your *********** account balance upon the item shipping. This amount can only be used towards purchases on website and is non-refundable.
Once a paid pre-order has been made due to the different costs of our various delivery options you are not able to change the delivery method selected.

No money is put down for a pre order at shopto, you can pre pay but it just shows in your account balance until a few days before they ship.

 

[thestatics]

The small claims court would be if any payment was taken.

So now we're proposing Shopto canceled the pre-order and kept the monies that the OP most likely hasn't paid and on that basis we've got LA's finest ready to sue their ass?

Give me strength!