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Social isolation is deadlier than obesity

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F

Freeza Under The Shower

Member
gerg said:
I'd love to have someone post some links that discuss the matter more deeply, but I would fathom that what makes them easy to stigmatise is that they're "invisible" sufferings. For a long time I think I felt grossly insecure, without anyone around me noticing - in fact, because I had so low self-esteem, I would act only more confident in social situations, which made it even harder for anyone to consider that I was actually very down. As Stephen Fry writes, you can be one of the most popular people in the world and still feel lonely.

I think part of the situation also is then that you're dealing with other people's expectations, and concern that they may not believe you if you tell them that you do have a mental illness. If you're physically handicapped, show people a missing limb and they're likely to understand why. There's no real way that you can "show" people that you're depressed or lonely, hence the ridicule that ME often receives as a condition.
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that second paragraph reminded of the 'avowed' and 'disavowed' type of Stigma that Ervin Goffman put forward at the time. One type of 'blemish of the self', as he refers to it, can only be claimed (avowed), since it can't be hidden. The other type however, can be hidden until revealed (denied / disavowed), to which depression and / or loneliness might belong as well.

Maybe it's the association with stigma that gets us all confused. Where admitting that one is lonely, is thought to be something 'worth' of stigma, despite it not having any real claim as such. It's just a statement about a feeling, but perhaps too private to simply shared with strangers.

A relevant quote for Fry's blogpost:

“How can someone so well-off, well-known and successful have depression?” they ask. Alastair Campbell in a marvelous article, suggested changing the word “depression” to “cancer” or “diabetes” in order to reveal how, in its own way, sick a question, it is. Ill-natured, ill-informed, ill-willed or just plain ill, it’s hard to say.

But, most people, a surging, warm, caring majority, have been kind. Almost too kind. There’s something a little flustering and embarrassing when a taxi-driver shakes you by the hand, looks deep into your eyes and says “You look after yourself, mate, yes? Promise me?” And there’s something perhaps not too helpful to one’s mental health when it is the only subject people want to talk to you about, however kindly or for whatever reasons.
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Full post: http://www.stephenfry.com/2013/06/24/only-the-lonely/
 
U

User 100115

Banned
People also need to take note that it isn't talking only about having a SO. It's talking about basic human interaction, and a strong platonic relationship can be just as powerful as a strong romantic relationship.

In other words, don't cripple your friendships for the sake of romantic interaction, cause friendship is just as important.
 
G

gerg

Member
Zeitgeister said:
that second paragraph reminded of the 'avowed' and 'disavowed' type of Stigma that Ervin Goffman put forward at the time. One type of 'blemish of the self', as he refers to it, can only be claimed (avowed), since it can't be hidden. The other type however, can be hidden until revealed (denied / disavowed), to which depression and / or loneliness might belong as well.
Click to expand...

I think I follow, but I'm not quite sure. Do you have a link to where Goffman discusses this?

Maybe it's the association with stigma that gets us all confused. Where admitting that one is lonely, is thought to be something 'worth' of stigma, despite it not having any real claim as such. It's just a statement about a feeling, but perhaps too private to simply shared with strangers.
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Again, I think I agree.

I know from my own experience that, even though I would no longer describe myself as feeling depressed, I still often find it hard to casually refer to my mental episode because I'm anxious that people will make a big deal out of something that is now over, finished, in the past. On the one hand, it is something that really, actually happened, and so I have as much reason to talk about it as anything else; on the other, why cause the fuss?
 
EarsOfASnake

EarsOfASnake

Member
The book Alone Together is a great read about how we generally expect more from technology and less from each other. It was recommended in a thread very similar to this a couple of months ago. I picked it up then and it makes many valid points and is something that should be more openly discussed.
 
R

Raptor2155

Member
Horseticuffs said:
After my marriage went to the shitter my only friends were gaf and podcasts and that worked. It certainly wasn't ideal but I don't know WHERE I'd be without podcasts to be my friends :(


Christ that's pathetic sounding.
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I know what you mean man. I really liked listening to a groups of friends talk about a topic. Closest thing I had to friends.
 
H

Horseticuffs

Full werewolf off the buckle
Raptor2155 said:
I know what you mean man. I really liked listening to a groups of friends talk about a topic. Closest thing I had to friends.
Click to expand...

I've been listening to the "Night of the Living Podcast" crew for years and years and, though my social life has taken an admittedly temporary upturn, I still find myself sort of sadly familiar with them.


We saw a lot of people admitting similar phenomena when Ryan Davis from the Bombcast crew died. I experienced it myself there, as well.
 
F

Freeza Under The Shower

Member
gerg said:
I think I follow, but I'm not quite sure. Do you have a link to where Goffman discusses this?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately not, as the book is not within public domain (apparently), but the wikipedia page and related resources go a long way, as Goffman is very consistent in his theoretical framework across various books and articles. I do have to admit that I used terms from a tertiary source though, so it's unlikely all of those terms are actually 'his'.

That said: Goffman's theoretical framework is best understood as informed by theater, where a person tries to maintain a singular biographical role, until the context changes. Stigma's that are visible cannot be denied, and have to worked into this role, whereas those that are not visible can be excluded from the role. Depression is a bit of both (it's visible behavior), but loneliness is invisible, I think.
 
J

jimi_dini

Member
Zeitgeister said:
But the real question should be the one raised in the article: why are social isolation and depression even stigmatized to begin with? What is gained from ignoring it?
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I guess it's evolution somehow.

Just take a look at animals. A deer gets injured. Group leaves it alone to die.
If the group would take care, it would take a risk with no real benefit.

Nowadays that doesn't really make sense anymore, but I guess that's still how people's minds work. And maybe they don't want to care in such cases, because if the one dies, they would feel horrible and sad. And who wants to feel horrible or sad?

I can just take a look at my own personal experience. Got awfully sick in 2009. Was around a total of 3 months in hospital (inpatient). Everyone of my friends left me. And without a huge dose of luck, I would have died back then.

I mean really - who wants to be friend with a horribly sick person, that is incurable ill?
Even nowadays I'm completely alone (if I don't count work), although my "health" is almost back to normal. And I got used to being alone, so I don't really care about it anymore.
 
B

Bert409

Member
What exactly do these people die from? I mean what if their dietary and exercise habits are excellent and they get frequent health checkups?
 
T

Torhthelm Tídwald

Member
Crayons said:
The government needs to make sure everyone has a boyfriend or girlfriend in order to ensure the health of it's people.
Click to expand...

On a serious note, there are government policies that could help. The current suburban lifestyle tends to isolate people from each other and increase loneliness, if they had focused on a more dense, urban development scheme, people would be much happier. This doubly effects the poor and elderly: If you live in the suburbs and can't afford a car or can't drive, you are shit out of luck. And since our current suburb style also contributes to obesity and hurts the environment, it's got to be one of the worst policies out there.
 
S

Spring-Loaded

Member
Torhthelm Tídwald;78275089 said:
On a serious note, there are government policies that could help. The current suburban lifestyle tends to isolate people from each other and increase loneliness, if they had focused on a more dense, urban development scheme, people would be much happier. This doubly effects the poor and elderly: If you live in the suburbs and can't afford a car or can't drive, you are shit out of luck. And since our current suburb style also contributes to obesity and hurts the environment, it's got to be one of the worst policies out there.
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This, this, so much this

If public transportation (namely rail systems of varying type) was a greater focus in urban planning, people could get to where they need/want to go so long as they have means to move. A city designed around a metro/bus combo would promote more walking and reduce number of car accidents. Bad weather wouldn't screw over elderly or wheelchair users so long as skyways/covered areas for pedestrian traffic between public transit centers existed.

But, at least in the U.S., there's such a strong social stigma on not being independent. That's not to mention all the ways money is made off the way traffic and cities are now; it would take considerable effort that many don't want to put forth, even though it'd be worth it.
 
S

Samk

Member
Back in the day, I feel, there were more community events. How cool would it be if your local PD threw a block party? No agenda, no message. You just got to hang out with your community. I bet crime rates would plummet. And you'd get to know the officers walking a beat so you'd feel comfortable telling them useful tips.

Yeah, I sort of want to live in a hippie commune sometimes
 
W

Wind's Howling

Member
So loneliness gives me cancer and heart attacks?

I am sorry for being cynical but I can not see how loneliness can be just as terrible, especially if social interaction is a simple walk out of the door. There is no walking away from cancer or heart failures.
 
G

gryz

Banned
waypoetic said:
Haha. How about no?
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ohh shit. now I don't know who to believe

Rivyn said:
So loneliness gives me cancer and heart attacks?

I am sorry for being cynical but I can not see how loneliness can be just as terrible, especially if social interaction is a simple walk out of the door. There is no walking away from cancer or heart failures.
Click to expand...

feeling stressed and shitty can make you get sick
 
H

Horseticuffs

Full werewolf off the buckle
Samk said:
Back in the day, I feel, there were more community events. How cool would it be if your local PD threw a block party? No agenda, no message. You just got to hang out with your community. I bet crime rates would plummet. And you'd get to know the officers walking a beat so you'd feel comfortable telling them useful tips.

Yeah, I sort of want to live in a hippie commune sometimes
Click to expand...


This sounds really nice. I've always wanted to live in a place with a real "community". Sadly I don't know if places like that really exist anymore or are just an idea perpetuated by the media :-[


Definitely agree that, at least in America, society has evolved in such a way so as to isolate us from each other.


One of my fantasies is to live in some small, (in my imagination) European-style town or village where everything is within walking distance or there is reliable and comprehensive public transport.
 
T

TheGravemind

Banned
Rivyn said:
So loneliness gives me cancer and heart attacks?

I am sorry for being cynical but I can not see how loneliness can be just as terrible, especially if social interaction is a simple walk out of the door. There is no walking away from cancer or heart failures.
Click to expand...

you know nothing jhon snow!
 
W

Wind's Howling

Member
gryz said:
ohh shit. now I don't know who to believe



feeling stressed and shitty can make you get sick
Click to expand...

Since when does feeling lonely up your blood pressure, get a huge amount of cholesterol in your blood, improves your chance of getting cancer and lowers your overall condition? Because those are the things that happens with smoking and obesitas, something this "study" is pitting against loneliness.

While I agree that loneliness can be threatening, I highly doubt it as lethal as said other conditions, and how in the world can you get stressed by being lonely?
 
U

unknownhero

Member
I pretty much figured that lonliness will kill me eventually. hell, call me crazy if you want I know that I won't live past 44. I live with people, I work with people and yet I still feel alone. I actually did try talking to people about it but they are like "well, people in third world contries have shit lives so you can't complain". seriously, that's what was said to me today. thoughts of suicide are creeping up on me more and more each day and worse of all is that I became a born again christain about 15-17 years ago and yet I still feel lonely. heck, i feel more like the butt monkey that was put on this world for god's entertainment more than anything else. I'm losing my hair, I'm losing feeling in parts of my right fingers, I have constant headaches, and i'm just tired all around no matter how much sleep I get. actually, I don't even feel alive. I wondering if this is my version of hell to be honest.
 
M

maquiladora

Member
Meh. I prefer to be alone mostly. I think I'll be fine. I can understand people getting depressed from it though, it just doesn't seem to bother me. There always seems to be something to occupy my time/thoughts.
 
L

LBTRecords

Banned
Some of you probably won't take this serious but if you want to meet very pleasant and out reaching people, try church. I started going to church recently and man oh man, the love I get from the congregation is nothing like i've experienced before. Even more then friends I had from high school and elementary. I even found church members in my age group (24 25 26) that hold bibles studies at their house, and we have dinner and such. Trust me, its so good I even had a dream about th bible study last night and even in the dream the love was overwhelming. I couldn't help but continue smiling after I woke up. Great people.
 
Hale-XF11

Hale-XF11

Member
I've always thought that I would die at a fairly young age because of how much I suffer from loneliness and depression. Interesting to get some form of confirmation on that.
 
E

eddfromtheriver

Banned
The problem is that FB has made me aware of how shallow and sick in the head a lot of people are... and thus it has decreased my intent on socializing with them or meeting new folks... you'd think humankind would be a bit more advanced in our current time and age psychologically speaking... alas... that does not seem to be the case... reading trough FB posts often makes me feel nauseated.
 
Hale-XF11

Hale-XF11

Member
eddfromtheriver said:
The problem is that FB has made me aware of how shallow and sick in the head a lot of people are... and thus it has decreased my intent on socializing with them or meeting new folks... you'd think humankind would be a bit more advanced in our current time and age psychologically speaking... alas... that does not seem to be the case... reading trough FB posts often makes me feel nauseated.
Click to expand...

Facebook is the absolute worst. When/if I ever want to truly hate myself or anyone else, FB delivers in spades.

Last night, I tried going out and having a drink at a bar in order to be around other people, only to be reminded just how shallow that experience is as well. Can't win.
 
Smiles and Cries

Smiles and Cries

Member
meh I don't mind dying as much as I mind having empty fake ass relationships wasting my energy

forever alone for LIFE!
wtzgU.gif
 
L

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
Rivyn said:
So loneliness gives me cancer and heart attacks?

I am sorry for being cynical but I can not see how loneliness can be just as terrible, especially if social interaction is a simple walk out of the door. There is no walking away from cancer or heart failures.
Click to expand...

Mental diseases are as real as other diseases.
 
E

EhoaVash

Member
The past couple of summers, the only people I spoke to were the 3 members of my family. My parents who I don't really talk to but have to because I live with them and my 5 year old brother. I have friends from school but I tend to avoid them because I really am bad at socializing, can't keep a conversation going at all so I try to say that I'm busy when ever I get invited or someone messages me. I tend to also avoid social network sites too because there are people I know and ..I just can't deal with talking to people. But otherwise, online where I'm anonymous, it's a lot easier to for me. But now that school is starting again, I'll have to interact with people again which really sucks.

I already had plenty of panic attacks during the nights where it really depressed me on how lonely I am but otherwise, I just try to forget about it and trying to think positive and reading. but yeah..lots of suicidal thoughts are usually in my head but some of those are for other reasons.

on a side note those who are socially isolated, I recommend this anime called
* Watamote * ..helps me laugh off my isolation sometimes because of how much worse the character in this anime has it for them ._.
 
U

unknownhero

Member
LBTRecords said:
Some of you probably won't take this serious but if you want to meet very pleasant and out reaching people, try church. I started going to church recently and man oh man, the love I get from the congregation is nothing like i've experienced before. Even more then friends I had from high school and elementary. I even found church members in my age group (24 25 26) that hold bibles studies at their house, and we have dinner and such. Trust me, its so good I even had a dream about th bible study last night and even in the dream the love was overwhelming. I couldn't help but continue smiling after I woke up. Great people.
Click to expand...

I tried that. I went to a sunday school that had people of my age group. I would try to socialize but it felt like they weren't interested in what I had to say. I felt like an outcast there. the instructor was there was nice but he supposed to be nice.
 
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