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[qq more]

And the bitching continues. Well, looks really good so far and a massive improvement on ep.1 like the pitfall warnings ripped from generations. It won't impress the majority of you though never mind, there is always the next sonic game to pin your hopes on.

You act as if no one liked Colors/Generations.

 

[ShadiWulf]

Sonic Team did listen to fan feedback.

- Better physics
- Zones not rehashed
- Classic Sonic included! (on the orange signs, watch iizuka bring this up in a interview on how they included classic sonic in the game, lol)
- Alt gameplay
- better graphics
- multiplayer

all things that fans asked for =)

 

[Emitan]

I don't get how the screens look so good, but the trailer looks underwhelming. I'm hoping it's the trailer's quality. The visuals are seriously only a notch below Generation's 2D stuff, if that much.

Maybe the 3DS version.

You act as if no one liked Colors/Generations.

Heh.

 

[Diablohead]

aww fuck I just noticed sonic gets forced into a roll from boosters, AGAIN.

sega might listen but then either dimps are like "eh maybe" or they just don't get why classic sonic games were so damn good.

 

[Blueblur1]

At the end of the day, I think Dimps does whatever the hell they want and only take pointers from Sega for the most egregious design decisions and issues.

 

[qq more]

Heh.

I'm pretty sure Colors had a lot of praise.

 

[RagnarokX]

You act as if no one liked Colors/Generations.

They were good, but they weren't Sonic 4. What's frustrating is that this game isn't Sonic 4, either. There's nothing wrong with holding a game called Sonic 4 up to the standards of Sonic 1-3. Colors and Generations didn't have that problem and since they didn't outright troll the fanbase they were much better received good games. I really liked those games.

 

[qq more]

They were good, but they weren't Sonic 4. What's frustrating is that this game isn't Sonic 4, either. There's nothing wrong with holding a game called Sonic 4 up to the standards of Sonic 1-3. Colors and Generations didn't have that problem and since they didn't outright troll the fanbase they were much better received good games. I really liked those games.

Er... That wasn't my point. All I'm saying is that he's acting like there hasn't been a Sonic game praised by GAF.

 

[Vidiot]

I wonder what happens to Tails when you turn Super Sonic. Wouldn't you leave your partner in the dust? Maybe they both change.

 

[qq more]

I wonder what happens to Tails when you turn Super Sonic. Wouldn't you leave your partner in the dust? Maybe they both change.

I hope so. Super Tails with Super Flickies! Make it happen.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Sonic Team did listen to fan feedback.

- Better physics
- Zones not rehashed
- Classic Sonic included! (on the orange signs, watch iizuka bring this up in a interview on how they included classic sonic in the game, lol)
- Alt gameplay
- better graphics
- multiplayer

all things that fans asked for =)

bu-bu-bu it looks like shit and the physics are bad because i saw him running!

Maybe the 3DS version.

well ok

 

[TheOGB]

Sonic the Hedgehog 4 to get Episode 3 before Half-Life.

Daaaaamn

and he's probably right

 

[RagnarokX]

Er... That wasn't my point. All I'm saying is that he's acting like there hasn't been a Sonic game praised by GAF.

I know. I'm just saying I want a game worthy of being a sequel to Sonic 3 in addition to Modern Sonic. I didn't give Sonic Generations a complete pass, but at least it wasn't hiding behind lies and was awesome. I wish Sega would give classic fans some respect. I praise Generations despite the problems.

 

[qq more]

I know. I'm just saying I want a game worthy of being a sequel to Sonic 3 in addition to Modern Sonic. I didn't give Sonic Generations a complete pass, but at least it wasn't hiding behind lies and was awesome. I wish Sega would give classic fans some respect. I praise Generations despite the problems.

Ah.


I am in the same boat as you, by the way. I am very very disappointed that we will never get a true Sonic 4.

 

[Emitan]

I'm pretty sure Colors had a lot of praise.

Not from me

well ok

Generations on my PC >>>>>>>>>>> those screenshots

 

[ShadiWulf]

Here is the high quality version of the trailer i was talking about yesterday, well its not the exact same, its WMV instead of MOV, but it looks the same to me when I watched it

http://www.gamersyde.com/leech_26013_1_en.html

edit: ok so its not as vibrant as the MOV file, but not that big of a difference.

 

[RagnarokX]

Not from me




Generations on my PC >>>>>>>>>>> those screenshots

Colors was good. The bosses were a bit too easy, the level design was boring/lazy in places, and double jump and swimming were bad ideas, but overall I had a lot of fun with it. It wasn't classic Sonic, but compared to every other Modern Sonic game it was amazing, though maybe that's mostly due to it being the first 3D Sonic game not to have major glitches everywhere.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Achievement list is up at xbox360achievements.org

Spoiler

The Adventure Begins 5
Clear SYLVANIA CASTLE ZONE, Act 1.

Rolling Combo! 5
Activate the Rolling Combo with Sonic and Tails.

Metal Sonic Falls 5
Defeat Metal Sonic in SKY FORTRESS ZONE, Act 1.

A Golden Wave 10
Defeat all bosses as Super Sonic.

All Stages Cleared! 10
Defeat the final foe and watch the ending.

Tag Partner 10
Upload a Multiplayer score or time.

I Love Tails 10
Play as Tails 50 times.

Ring Collector 15
Beat Special Stage 1 after collecting every Ring.

Endurance Race 25
Clear all stages without returning to the World Map.

All Chaos Emeralds Found! 30
Collect all seven Chaos Emeralds.

Proof of Speed 35
Clear SYLVANIA CASTLE ZONE, Act 1 in one minute or less.

All Red Star Rings Found! 40
Defeat the final foe after collecting every Red Star Ring.

WTF is up with that first zone name.

 

[Hitlersaurus Christ]

Sylvania technically means forest or forested land (IE Pennsylvania, Penn's Forest). It also apparently sounds 10x cooler than forest does to Japanese.

 

[Emitan]

Spoiler

I Love Tails 10
Play as Tails 50 times.

Why god why?

That name

 

[ShadiWulf]

Why god why?

That name

Well you can play single player but you will always have Tails with you. Why is that? Because you will need some of the new Collaborative Moves to get through certain places - and honestly - it's WAYYYY more fun to play having Tails help you out in certain areas. Episode II really does build on the Sonic/Tails relationship.

SEGA be pushing this whole Sonic/Tails thing

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.p...ack-from-LA!&p=7144048&viewfull=1#post7144048

some more comments from ken, today

We definetly have listened. Is it going to be exacally as the Genesis physics were? No. And I said before that unfortunatly we can't make them apple-to-apple the same. The game would simply break. However, we can make them closer. For example, the uncurling, which was a HUGE issue the first time has been fixed.

That said - you will get chances to Play the game before launch - so you can check it out first hand!

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.p...ack-from-LA!&p=7144055&viewfull=1#post7144055

I can't dive too much into this, but here's another good example; a lot of people asked for Tails and to see that in Ep 2, and in the old engine that wasn't going to be possible. Again, without revealing too much, too early, things the engine does differently.

But if you are looking to a game exacally like the old genesis games, physics that are spot on to those games, then I would suggest that maybe Sonic CD is where you'd want to be. All I can tell you is we're getting closer.

If its a bigger game design issue; like the amount of boost pads and springs (more than you'd like) thats a personal design opinion, and eveyone is entitled to theirs for sure!

Its not like this will be the only chance to see or play the game. So stick around and check out the rest of the campaign. If you opinion changes awesome! If you still feel it isn't the game for you, for whatever reason - totally respect your decision man. And maybe Generations which is a full boxed product and has those kind of features / engine is your cup of tea

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?399136-Hello-Everyone-Back-from-LA!&p=7144112#post7144112

the bolded part reminds me of this

I believe instant execrations by gimmicks like booster are important elements to keep the better game pacing.

http://www.tssznews.com/2010/09/06/another-iiuzka-interview-by-digital-chumps/

here we go again! =) This is truly Sonic the Hedgehog 4 as we imagined it. I can't wait till Iizuka-san starts talking again.

Just so no one gets the wrong impression, I'm pretty excited for Sonic 4 Ep 2. It looks like it greatly improves upon Episode 1. It seems SEGA is making it clear this time that Sonic 4 isn't for the diehard classic fans.

 

[TheCongressman1]

^^^
Even better is this from Sonic Stadium:

I just asked Ken about Sonic dropping like a rock if you release the d-pad. Here's his reply:

Ken Balough said:
I'll be upfront - I know we were trying to get that fixed. No promises but I know that was being looked at. Let me double check in the latest builds.

Fucking bravo, Sega. "Brand New physics engine" my ass. It's all going to be the same story this time around, yet again.

 

[RagnarokX]

lol. Here we go again. So far the only promising thing about this game is that they brought back the awesome-looking Sonic 2 and 3 Tornado.

 

[Seven Force]

There goes any lingering hope I had for this. Wonder if the music will end up being terrible this time, too.

 

[Lijik]

I hate the "The game would break" excuse
Just... like... code the physics first and then build the game around that.
How is that so hard.

 

[TheCongressman1]

I hate the "The game would break" excuse
Just... like... code the physics first and then build the game around that.
How is that so hard.

I really want to know what they have been doing for a year. Staring into space? How hard is it to fix the physics, and design the game around that? These people are truly the most lazy, backwards game designers I've ever had the displeasure of knowing.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I hate the "The game would break" excuse
Just... like... code the physics first and then build the game around that.
How is that so hard.

I think the implication here is that these changes will actually roll backwards in to Episode 1. If Episode 2 was its own thing, entirely separate from Episode 1, then it wouldn't matter. They could build Episode 2 to control any way they want to.

But if they're planning on some kind of "Lock-On" feature, then any changes made to Episode 2's engine theoretically plug in to Episode 1's levels. That's the only way his "We can't directly port the Genesis physics, because it would break the game" comment makes any sense.

Of course, it's not a direct confirmation by any means, but that's definitely what I'm reading between his lines.

 

[ShadiWulf]

Just because the game physics aren't classic doesn't mean they are bad. It could be the best feeling Sonic game yet, for all you know. I'm not saying that is going to be the case, but i think it's a bit silly to write off the game without even playing it.

I'm betting that if you ignore the fact that it's not classic physics, that it's probably one of the best feeling Sonic games yet.

but if you can't get over the fact that the game will be littered with speed boosters.. well.. I guess that's your loss =P

 

[TheCongressman1]

I'm betting that if you ignore the fact that it's not classic physics, that it's probably one of the best feeling Sonic games yet.

It's kind of hard to ignore what made Sonic such a great game.

Oh, believe me, I will play the demo. If it's good, then great, but I have no faith in it. After the absolute incompetence that is ep. 1, this new PR has given me absolutely no hope. They are looking into fixing the problems outlines in countless complaints? Just listening to complaints does not fix them game, if that's what they were getting at in the beginning. Actually working fixes it.

They always make lofty claims, and fall completely short. Why should I believe this will be any different?

 

[Hot Coldman]

Well that guy is doing a great job of selling this

Not a lot he can do, I suppose

 

[Lijik]

but i think it's a bit silly to write off the game without even playing it.

I'm betting that if you ignore the fact that it's not classic physics, that it's probably one of the best feeling Sonic games yet.

"Its silly to say something negative about a game without playing it

But I will praise it to high heavens without playing it"

 

[RagnarokX]

I think the implication here is that these changes will actually roll backwards in to Episode 1. If Episode 2 was its own thing, entirely separate from Episode 1, then it wouldn't matter. They could build Episode 2 to control any way they want to.

But if they're planning on some kind of "Lock-On" feature, then any changes made to Episode 2's engine theoretically plug in to Episode 1's levels. That's the only way his "We can't directly port the Genesis physics, because it would break the game" comment makes any sense.

Of course, it's not a direct confirmation by any means, but that's definitely what I'm reading between his lines.

I have a great idea that would go right along with all the other great ideas they've had for Sonic 4: to play Episode 2 you must first buy and download Episode 1. If you've already played Episode 1, your save file will be deleted.

 

[Emitan]

Just because the game physics aren't classic doesn't mean they are bad. It could be the best feeling Sonic game yet, for all you know. I'm not saying that is going to be the case, but i think it's a bit silly to write off the game without even playing it.

I'm betting that if you ignore the fact that it's not classic physics, that it's probably one of the best feeling Sonic games yet.

but if you can't get over the fact that the game will be littered with speed boosters.. well.. I guess that's your loss =P

My problem isn't that they don't feel like the classic games (even Generations didn't really feel the same as the classic games and I loved it to death!). The issue is that as a platforming aficionado I've developed very fine tastes and any platformer that doesn't meet them simply isn't worth playing for any length of time.

My issue isn't that Sonic 4: Episode 1 wasn't like the classic games, it's that the games were developed by a team who doesn't even understand what makes a platformer fun in the first place.

Dimps basically has a fundamental misunderstanding of why 2D Sonic games are fun and Episode 1 is the ultimate example of a developer showing how hopelessly incompetent they are by basically throwing everything at a wall and seeing what sticks.

If you happen to have such bizarre tastes that Sonic 4 really scratches your platforming itch, that's fine. Have fun, but understand that the people who hate these games hate them because they represent a huge drop in quality from the original games, and this is marketed as a sequel to those.

 

[ShadiWulf]

My problem isn't that they don't feel like the classic games (even Generations didn't really feel the same as the classic games and I loved it to death!). The issue is that as a platforming aficionado I've developed very fine tastes and any platformer that doesn't meet them simply isn't worth playing for any length of time.

My issue isn't that Sonic 4: Episode 1 wasn't like the classic games, it's that the games were developed by a team who doesn't even understand what makes a platformer fun in the first place.

Dimps basically has a fundamental misunderstanding of why 2D Sonic games are fun and Episode 1 is the ultimate example of a developer showing how hopelessly incompetent they are by basically throwing everything at a wall and seeing what sticks.

If you happen to have such bizarre tastes that Sonic 4 really scratches your platforming itch, that's fine. Have fun, but understand that the people who hate these games hate them because they represent a huge drop in quality from the original games, and this is marketed as a sequel to those.

Oh, I fully agree that Episode 1 is low quality, it really is. I just think people are being too quick to call Episode 2 trash. SEGA has improved it a lot, even if it wasn't with all of the feedback given to them by the fans.

You know Iizuka-san, he likes to go against the expectations of fans, he said that in an interview.

 

[Lijik]

Like if the physics are like classic Sonic's in Sonic Generations 3DS (also by Dimps), then that'd be fine but I feel like they'd come right out and say that if it was. I mean, if I was in charge I would. "Thats right, we fixed it and you can try it out right now by checking out this other title!" You'd probably get more money that way. I dont know if that game was 1:1, but it felt close enough and would be acceptable.

This whole hemming and hawing of "Well we fixed these very specific things, but its not 1:1 old style physics if you want that go play Sonic Generations, itd break the game if we did" just feels like they're using the same busted chinese bootleg feeling controls of episode 1 with some minor refinements.

 

[Dark Schala]

here we go again! =) This is truly Sonic the Hedgehog 4 as we imagined it. I can't wait till Iizuka-san starts talking again.

:lol

Yeah, if this guy's saying stuff like "people are entitled to their own opinion on level design" and essentially implying that they don't care for anyone else's perspective on the matter, I can only imagine what Iizuka-san is going to say. I'm looking forward to that!

I'll play the demo, but I'm not sure if I any positive expectations for this game at all. The PR cements that.

 

[BHZ Mayor]

Uncurling is gone so that's already a huge step in the right direction.

 

[Vidiot]

Will not even bother with the demo if they don't fix the shit where letting go of the d-pad causes Sonic to stop on a dime on the ground and drop like a rock in the air.

 

[Anth0ny]

Sylvania Castle Zone.

I'm in fucking tears right now :lol

 

[RagnarokX]

Oh, I fully agree that Episode 1 is low quality, it really is. I just think people are being too quick to call Episode 2 trash. SEGA has improved it a lot, even if it wasn't with all of the feedback given to them by the fans.

You know Iizuka-san, he likes to go against the expectations of fans, he said that in an interview.

Dude, it's Sonic 4. That number makes all the difference. It's false advertising and it's going to piss people off. And even if that wasn't the case, Episode 1 is still a bad game without being compared to the great ones. They're not just different physics; they're bad physics.

Sylvania Castle Zone.

I'm in fucking tears right now :lol

It makes me imagine Sonic running through a castle made of stacks of Sylvania light bulb boxes.

Sylvania Castle Zone
General Electric Fortress Zone

 

[ShadiWulf]

:lol

Yeah, if this guy's saying stuff like "people are entitled to their own opinion on level design" and essentially implying that they don't care for anyone else's perspective on the matter, I can only imagine what Iizuka-san is going to say. I'm looking forward to that!

I'll play the demo, but I'm not sure if I any positive expectations for this game at all. The PR cements that.

Ken and everyone at SEGA America totally cares about our feedback. But what it comes down to, is what Sonic Team(See: Iizuka-san) feel like incorporating into the game. It's obvious Sonic Team wasn't too happy with the feeback, seeing how little of it they have taken. I guess as Iizuka-san would say, "Sonic Team are the professionals".

 

[goldenpp72]

Will this connect to episode 1 at all and is there any rumors of a vita version?

 

[ShadiWulf]

hey check this out, i just stumbled upon this post by endri, (the guy that leaked episode 1?)

I understand that many of you, the players, are worried and or concerned about what Episode II may or may not be. I noticed a few misunderstandings—to the point of boycotting the game prior to release, even—therefore I would like to put some of these worries at rest. This is the first and only time I'll make a post in the Sonic 4: Episode II topic, prior to the actual release of the game.

I believe a little background will help illuminating my point. Speaking honestly, Episode I was the most displeasing Sonic game I've ever touched to date. But that was only because I've set high expectations for it; because it gone by the alias Sonic the Hedgehog 4™, it definitely didn't meet my standards. As it was, it simply didn't meet the design choices of what I envisioned an actual Sonic the Hedgehog 4™ to be like. I've voiced many, many times before: had it being called anything else but Sonic the Hedgehog 4™, I wouldn't have minded it existence, just as much as I am indifferent to Sonic Labyrinth's existence. Not only I did not buy Episode I, but I also cursed the very prospect of developing yet another installment of this to-be short series. When I first heard it was an actual tangible project, I cringed. But I was quite at ease on the possibility of an Episode III not seeing the light of the day at all.

Fast forward to the present time. I actually hope for an Episode III. It would be wise to listen to representatives such as Ken Balough about Episode II. Even more wiser to actually trust him, since he knows what he is talking about. Episode II, indeed, uses a new graphics engine and boasts a new, different physics engine. The physics are indeed different to the point that the game doesn't even feel like Episode I. Now, my main concern with Episode I was it's physics (or lack thereof). The basics principles of physics in Episode II had a major overhaul, but, of course, they are nowhere near 1:1 with the Genesis Sonic game's physics. In Episode II, Sonic doesn't uncurl when rolling off of a ledge. Sonic doesn't stick to walls and or ceiling; he falls when his speed reach a slow threshold instead. Rolling is less efficient than running alone, but it behaves as expected: rolling accelerates when going down and decelerates when going up. Of course, the game still has a few design choices that I personally don't quite appreciate, like the walk-in springs, but at the end of the day, these design decisions were deliberated. But this, summed with the overall improvements made to the game, makes Episode II a Sonic game to stand on it's own. That being said, I will actually purchase both versions of Sonic the Hedgehog 4 - Episode II!

I've been in pretty good terms with SEGA lately, and I believed that this subject deserved a little clarification. For the most perfectionists, I believe that Mr. Balough's statements, in an attempt to ease some of the aforementioned players' worries, have been misunderstood by the community, simply because of the bad stigma that Episode I's development set. He has been passing as much feedback as possible during the development. When he says that he knows they were trying to get those physics aspects fixed and that he knew they were being looked at, I'm fairly positive that he meant that those aspect have been given feedback since far back in the past, since the begin of the development cycle of Episode II, and not a last-minute feedback as many people somehow interpreted, and the fact that he doesn't have much involvement in the actual software programming and development process made him re-check if the mentioned aspects were even an issue anymore, which is completely understandable in a quality assuring standpoint.

I wish these words to be of confort to the most concerned players.

maybe it can put you at ease

http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=27501&st=1530&p=666483&#entry666483

 

[J@hranimo]

The guys over at Sonic Team and Dimps are really strange developers. Anyway like I've said before I'll play the demo and have my final opinion like any game I try.

Also Sylvania Castle Zone = Castlevania Zone? Wtf

 

[RagnarokX]

The guys over at Sonic Team and Dimps are really strange developers. Anyway like I've said before I'll play the demo and have my final opinion like any game I try.

Also Sylvania Castle Zone = Castlevania Zone? Wtf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdqMKdGUn1o

Also Transylvania, Pennsylvania, etc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvania)

Edit: For some reason Beat the Clock reminds me of Dimps. A low budget gameshow made up of things probably just laying around the Sylvania offices when workers were bored http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukED597elQA

 

[J@hranimo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdqMKdGUn1o

Also Transylvania, Pennsylvania, etc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvania)

Yeah I get the reference, but it sounds different for a Sonic-y zone name. I guess I'll get used to it.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Yeah I get the reference, but it sounds different for a Sonic-y zone name. I guess I'll get used to it.

Yeah I was expecting something more traditional

Wooded Castle Zone
Forest Stronghold Zone
Overgrown Zone (1 word zone names ftw!)

etc

 

[Hot Coldman]

I'm waiting for the inevitable Adjective Noun Zone.

 

[RagnarokX]

Yeah I was expecting something more traditional

Wooded Castle Zone
Forest Stronghold Zone
Overgrown Zone (1 word zone names ftw!)

etc

If they really wanted to go the Sonic CD route:

Coniferous Castle Zone (though I really don't like the word castle to describe that zone, it's more romanesque)
Polar Park Zone
Flying Fortress Zone

 

[Anticitizen One]

I remember a time back in the early 00s like around '02/'03 when Dimps was considered the "saviors" of the sonic franchise for their highly praised GBA games.