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[Whipped Spartan]

I think it lloks cool I am picking it up

 

[Diablohead]

The Star Wars movies are the only things that come close, really.

Oh wow they are making a new star wars! I hope it's like the classic episodes... oh wait what, why has luke got bio implants to shoot lasers out of his fingers??? hyper robo-vader??? jabba's clone army, ect.

 

[Sanic]

We're basically talking about 5 good games made in 3 years that have fueled a discussion for almost two decades..

A true testament to the quality of those original games.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

A true testament to the quality of those original games.

Indeed. Every founding member of the original ST should feel prouder every day.

 

[riceandbeans]

Indeed. Every founding member of the original ST should feel prouder every day.

Or pissed off their work has been shit on.

 

[wRATH2x]

that happens with bands a lot.

Metallica to be precise.

Spoiler

I liked Death Magnetic a lot!!!

 

[Android18a]

The funny thing is, I know that Sega is getting my money for this. They could release a turd on a stick, call it Sonic, and my inner ten year old would make me buy it.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Or pissed off their work has been shit on.

Nah. Those guys took a lot of pride into the work done on those original games. It wasn't so much the character or the franchise that was special. It was the combined efforts of several extraordinarily-talented young programmers that made those games so special.

I have no doubt that they realize that and look back fondly on those times.

 

[MiamiWesker]

peace out /thread

Yes and this is the same crap for any Sonic game regardless of it's quality. You guys did the same thing with Unleashed and that game was fun as hell. Again I will wait to actually play this game and I wont play it with the mentality of trying to hate it.

 

[Zen]

Unleashed would have been much better had they trimmed the fat of the overworld.

Since DIMPS is making this Sonic game, I wonder what Sonic Team proper is working on?

If it is Sonic, I think they have a very solid foundation with Unleashed to make an Unleashed 2.

Nah. Those guys took a lot of pride into the work done on those original games. It wasn't so much the character or the franchise that was special. It was the combined efforts of several extraordinarily-talented young programmers that made those games so special.

I have no doubt that they realize that and look back fondly on those times.

Tainted somewhat by having to work closely with Yuji Naka. :lol

 

[mr_nothin]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Sonic Megamix is the TRUE Sonic 4.

It even does homing attack right.

That actually looks really cool.
The boss fight was dumb though.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Yes and this is the same crap for any Sonic game regardless of it's quality. You guys did the same thing with Unleashed and that game was fun as hell. Again I will wait to actually play this game and I wont play it with the mentality of trying to hate it.

oh dear

 

[Princess Skittles]

We're basically talking about 5 good games made in 3 years that have fueled a discussion for almost two decades..

I can't think of a single precedent where a popular franchise, video games or otherwise, was golden for 3 years and then spent 16 years floundering in crap...and STILL gets people excited when something new is announced.

Ya know, when you break it down like that, it simply amplifies the creep factor of the entire thing.

 

[Diablohead]

Megamix isn't a perfect sonic sequel, it's just a sonic game with a ton of features from other sonic games like homing attack, special shields, cd music, new level layouts and general hacking efforts being shown off, I would have to see it as a true sonic 4.

Way too much homing attack which doesn't belong in a 2D sonic title.

 

[Zen]

I've played MegaMix a ton, and it's no Sonic 4 that's for sure. It is a pretty amazing effort though.

 

[MiamiWesker]

oh dear

Please elaborate. Or are you just going to tell me that there has not been one good Sonic game in 16 years or whatever nonsense you guys like to say. It's honestly ridiculous. There was one BAD Sonic game, Sonic 06 (if you count Shadow as well, then two). There has been a lot of ok to good Sonic games. There has even been some great Sonic games like Rush. Also no games offer this kind of gameplay, Sonic is extremely unique and I am talking about the 3D ones, no game offers that kind of speed/scoring system. I wish they were a lot more polished but they are different enough to be interesting games.

Sorry that I don't mindlessly fall to your guys mob mentality, sorry that I have an actual opinion. Please explain to me why every Sonic game has sucked for the last 16 years. If you are going to give me the "it's not like Genesis Sonic" stuff well no shit its not, it is different, but being different doesn't mean it sucks. But I don't expect an actual discussion from you guys.

As for this game, I'll wait to play it before giving a final opinion. What a crazy concept. I will say that I agree and this game doesn't look good, doesn't mean it isn't, hands on is the only way to tell.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Yeah, but I can only imagine how much the internet would have exploded if a proper 16-bit Sonic 4 had been announced. I mean, nothing major, just a brand new Genesis game done with the same care and budget as the original 3. You'd have people praising and forgiving Sega for everything they ever did.

Take all the hate the current Sonic 4 has and amplify it times 10, and instead of 'hate', replace it with 'love'. That's what it would have been like.

 

[Odrion]

Game looks like a fun platformer. Everyone complaining about homing attacks and the such seems like fanboyism that's pretty unwarranted.

The mine cart thing does look like an experiment gone wrong. It would be cool to have a level that you need to rotate around to navigate.

 

[Odrion]

Please elaborate. Or are you just going to tell me that there has not been one good Sonic game in 16 years or whatever nonsense you guys like to say. It's honestly ridiculous. There was one BAD Sonic game, Sonic 06 (if you count Shadow as well, then two)].

Sonic Heroes, that's three.

Sonic Adventure 2 pretty much defined the "SONIC AND HIS GODDAMN SHITTY FRIENDS." Sonic Adventure 1 wasn't that bad with it, Sonic's campaign was significantly large and the rest of the cast seemed like a smorgasbord of different game modes, which worked for a launch title. Sonic Adventure 2 gave six characters the same three play mechanics and they seemed to dominate a larger portion of the gameplay.

Then after that, yeah, downhill.

 

[Sciz]

If you are going to give me the "it's not like Genesis Sonic" stuff well no shit its not, it is different, but being different doesn't mean it sucks.

People don't want different, not when that's all they've gotten for over a decade. Sega could produce a Sonic Rush 3 that is objectively one of the greatest games ever made and there would still be demand for another classic-style title. If Sonic 4 isn't that game, what hope is there that it will ever exist? Dreams are a hard thing to let die.

 

[MiamiWesker]

Yeah, but I can only imagine how much the internet would have exploded if a proper 16-bit Sonic 4 had been announced. I mean, nothing major, just a brand new Genesis game done with the same care and budget as the original 3. You'd have people praising and forgiving Sega for everything they ever did.

Take all the hate the current Sonic 4 has and amplify it times 10, and instead of 'hate', replace it with 'love'. That's what it would have been like.

Yeah I understand exactly what is going on now, and they used the name Sonic 4, they teased us with the momentum quote and all that. I guess what bothers me is, how do I explain this, I guess how people go overboard with their disappointment or hatred. You go into most Sonic threads and you will see a bunch of people simply stating "this franchise is dead", "there has not been a good Sonic game since the Genesis", "anyone who likes these games are crazy" and this is usually before a game is released. I understand a lot of people hate 3D Sonic, there are reasons not to like them but they are not terrible games. As I said before there are two horrible sonic games, games you can truly call BAD, when people lump all the games into that same category I can tell they are just hating for the sake of hating.

What this franchise has done to the fanbase is weird. It is a franchise that has changed it's core gameplay mechanics. It is one that has clearly dropped down a notch in terms of overall quality. Most just don't like that, they can't accept that even with the changes some good games have come and that it is a different kind of game. There are no games like Sonic games, it fills a niche, which is why I still care about these games.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

well there's also sonic adventure, sonic adventure 2, sonic heroes, and sonic unleashed

those straddle the "mediocre" and "bad" lines pretty well

 

[MiamiWesker]

Sonic Heroes, that's three.

Sonic Adventure 2 pretty much defined the "SONIC AND HIS GODDAMN SHITTY FRIENDS." Sonic Adventure 1 wasn't that bad with it, Sonic's campaign was significantly large and the rest of the cast seemed like a smorgasbord of different game modes, which worked for a launch title. Sonic Adventure 2 gave six characters the same three play mechanics and they seemed to dominate a larger portion of the gameplay.

Then after that, yeah, downhill.

No don't put Heroes in the same category of Sonic 06. Heroes is not a broken game. It has very weird mechanics and the four teams thing was a bad idea but its a fine game. I actually like that they left out the different characters with different mechanics type levels and made a game that is nothing but "sonic" levels like old school Sonic. Let me clarify, if you play Sonic's team you don't have levels where you are Knuckles and have to search for treasure or Tails shooting things. It is a straight game with Sonic like courses from beginning to end, a level two acts and a boss, very much like old school Sonic. It had some good levels like the casino one. The team mechanics were strange but it worked well and had a good scoring system that went with it, you had to use the different attacks at the right times for maximum rank. Boss fights were good. It was a good game.

 

[MiamiWesker]

well there's also sonic adventure, sonic adventure 2, sonic heroes, and sonic unleashed

those straddle the "mediocre" and "bad" lines pretty well

I don't think so. I like 3D Sonic's when they aren't bugged and broken to hell. I understand the hate for the non sonic levels but I can get through those. Lets not forget that the first two Adventure games came out to rave reviews, for some reason everyone decided to hate them later on. Again those games offer a style of gameplay you can't get anywhere else.

EDIT: BTW I am a get an A/S rank on every Sonic level kind of guy. That is where the majority of my fun comes from, if I played the game to just play the game I probably won't care much for them either.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

There are no games like Sonic games, it fills a niche, which is why I still care about these games.

You hit the nail on the head. And that's probably why Sonic has been able to sustain it's success for as long as it has despite critical backlash. It really is the only thing filling it's niche.

Sonic games are appealing to almost anybody. At least, in theory. True, the games themselves may not be so hot, but the characters and colorful, family-friendly graphics and content, and relatively accessible gameplay make them hard to resist for younger gamers, and even some older gamers as well.

Games like Sonic may have been a dime-a-dozen in....1993. But nowadays, they're very sparse.

 

[gutter_trash]

what is up with jumping animation where is he is flailing? it looks like he loses control when he should be continuing his run animation like in old Sonics

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I like 3D Sonic's when they aren't bugged and broken to hell.

sonic adventure, sonic adventure 2

.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Yes and this is the same crap for any Sonic game regardless of it's quality. You guys did the same thing with Unleashed and that game was fun as hell. Again I will wait to actually play this game and I wont play it with the mentality of trying to hate it.

As someone who started with Adventure 1 on the DC, from what I've observed, anyone who remembers the 3D titles well usually are just refering to the Sonic parts, which are a fraction of the whole game.

 

[jman2050]

No don't put Heroes in the same category of Sonic 06. Heroes is not a broken game. It has very weird mechanics and the four teams thing was a bad idea but its a fine game. I actually like that they left out the different characters with different mechanics type levels and made a game that is nothing but "sonic" levels like old school Sonic. Let me clarify, if you play Sonic's team you don't have levels where you are Knuckles and have to search for treasure or Tails shooting things. It is a straight game with Sonic like courses from beginning to end, a level two acts and a boss, very much like old school Sonic. It had some good levels like the casino one. The team mechanics were strange but it worked well and had a good scoring system that went with it, you had to use the different attacks at the right times for maximum rank. Boss fights were good. It was a good game.

I suddenly cannot find my Sonic Heroes hate thread for some reason.

Anyone wanna help me out?

 

[MiamiWesker]

.

Ok, I can't argue it that much cause I realize those games have issues. What I do know is that there is still plenty of fun to be had with those games where Sonic 06 was devoid of fun. SA1 and SA2 are not at the broken game level.

 

[MiamiWesker]

As someone who started with Adventure 1 on the DC, from what I've observed, anyone who remembers the 3D titles well usually are just refering to the Sonic parts, which are a fraction of the whole game.

Not if all you do is replay the Sonic parts over and over to max the ranks. Then it becomes like 90% of the game.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Not if all you do is replay the Sonic parts over and over to max the ranks. Then it becomes like 90% of the game.

:lol :lol

Yup, that's Sonic Adventure 2 in a nutshell.

I barely even remember the Knuckles and Tails levels outside of the boredom and frustration.

 

[wRATH2x]

I liked adventure 1 and 2, and unleashed's day time levels were alright. But this game has been Sega's biggest trolling attempt ever :lol

I mean come on. The constant referencing to momentum based gameplay, the silloute looking like old school sonic, naming it Sonic fucking 4, etc.

On top of all that, it looks worse than advance 1 and 2, rush and rush adventure :lol Well at least to me it does. So yeah its pretty annoying and hating on the game is pretty fucking reasonable since the last decade saw Sonic heroes, Riders, Shadow The Hedgehog, Sonic 2006, The Black Knight, Rivals, The Werehog and tons of shitty friends.

Don't tease us with a return to the Genesis gameplay if you are going to give us something different. Thats a huge mistake on Sega's part because if this was shrugged off as a new downloadable Sonic game with a different name and no "return to his roots" bullshit, you wouldn't see as many complaints.

 

[wRATH2x]

Not if all you do is replay the Sonic parts over and over to max the ranks. Then it becomes like 90% of the game.

I still say if they made the next 3D game more like a mix entirely of both of Sonics Adventure 1(more platformy) and 2(speed) levels with the more cartoony look of the Genesis Sonics. It would work much better than the "efforts" we've been getting.

 

[frameset]

Anyone got a link to the mine cart video? It's been taken down everywhere I look.

 

[Catalix]

Ok, I can't argue it that much cause I realize those games have issues. What I do know is that there is still plenty of fun to be had with those games where Sonic 06 was devoid of fun. SA1 and SA2 are not at the broken game level.

Those games are 'good-to-ok' and have their moments, but they're far from exceptional. Why lower my standards and settle for more than a decade's worth of mediocrity?

The mediocre efforts wouldn't be so annoying if we did still get the AAA Sonic game experience once in a while. It gets more and more disheartening with each new release.

 

[komojo]

When the first teaser was shown I was cautiously optimistic. My immediate prediction was that it would almost be a good game, but would be ruined by at least one major game-breaking flaw. When I first saw the ridiculous homing attack, I thought "OK, THIS is the one flaw that will bring the game down." If only that were the case...

I like reading everyone's responses here. Whoever mentioned Homer's runaway barbecue pig beat me to it. Here's how I'd sum up this thread:

(Game is announced)
Believers: This could be the best game ever!
Doubters: I don't know, Sega doesn't have a good track record. We'll have to wait and see...

(First screenshots and video are released)
Doubters: Wow, that running animation looks like crap.
Believers: It's just a little running animation. It's still good! It's still good!

(Alpha video leaks)
Doubters: Wow, the physics look like crap.
Believers: It's just a leaked alpha. It's still good! It's still good!
Doubters: Something tells me they're going to fill every level with speed boosters, automatic spring sequences and homing attack enemy bridges.

(More screenshots are released)
Believers: It's just got a few pointless enemy bridges, speed boosters, and a ridiculous target reticle. It's still good! It's still good!

(More video leaks)
Doubters: This game looks like crap.
Believers: You people just won't be satisfied with anything! Nit-picking every detail like "horrible animation" and "terrible player physics..."

It's not that Sonic fans are overly demanding. Sega just doesn't know how to make Sonic games anymore.

Everything about this game from top to bottom reeks of insincerity and half-assed implementation. It's obvious this isn't being made by people who actually want to make a game like the old ones, but by people who want to make a completely different game doing it against their will because they think it will sell.

Personally, I think I'll skip it because everything that's leaked shows some of the worst player physics and animation I've ever seen in a game. Seriously, the running animation is...awful. Worse than fan art. If I see the player physics and animation totally redone I'll reconsider.

I just think it's funny how the first info we got about the game was that it had a good sense of momentum, and then every single thing we saw about the game after that was the exact opposite of that.

(Edit: I haven't even seen the mine cart except in the gifs posted in this thread. I'd seen enough after Splash Hill act 1. Did anyone else notice it's half the size of a Sonic 3 level?)

 

[Sanic]

:lol :lol

Yup, that's Sonic Adventure 2 in a nutshell.

I barely even remember the Knuckles and Tails levels outside of the boredom and frustration.

You don't remember this masterpiece?

 

[Odrion]

Knuckles was the only bad campaign in SA1. And even then it was made bearable by the rap music.

Also, wasn't Sonic 06 all Sonic-esque levels? Sonic, Shadow, and Silver, right?

 

[Zen]

So after watching all of the videos I have to say that the game actually has some pretty good level design, with plenty of branching paths etc. I just hope they can, and have, tweaked the physics slightly since the partnertnet build; although Sonic looks a little faster than he actually is in these latest videos because of the 4:3 and position of the camera that's recording.

Maybe they could take a few of the boost pads out here or there in places where they're put specifically to make sure Sonic is at his top speed to do a half pipe or whatnot, that way if the player wasn't at a high enough speed they wouldn't make it, and they'd still be able to use the spin dash.

Act 2 actually had some really nice branching paths and depth to the level, although Sonics speed, and the players seemingly mad dash to the right aided by Sonics speed and the springs etc, meant that we really didn't get to see too much of the level.

I still say that if they slow Sonic down a little bit (this may require tweaking some elements of the level design), decrease his acceleration rate, and increase his gravity, while also fixing the 'if he goes off an edge while in spindash he free falls', than this could be a pretty good Sonic game even if it's not what we were promised. Even if these changes aren't made it's sure as shit looking much much better than any Advance game but a mile.

The only bad part seemed to be Labyrinth Act 2, but even that might not be bad, it could just be a side effect of the recording and a bad player.

I actually like the 'air hop' as a means of repositioning Sonic to get just a little bit further to hit a ledge or whatnot but it shouldn't grant speed, if fact it should be speed neutral. Likewise the homing attack should reduce Sonic to his starting speed rate after it hits

Then again maybe they do and it's just the crazy acceleration rate and top speed in this game that make it appear otherwise.

I have no problem with Sonic being slightly faster than classic Sonic in this game, but the acceleration is too high, and the top speed is just too much.

 

[DeVeAn]

I honestly don't care what they do at this point, no one Sonic fan will/can be satisfied from what this thread tells me. I am not going to force myself to like it, but hopefully I can have fun with the game when it comes out.

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

I think Sonic 4 still has the potential to be fun and I still look forward to playing it for myself to decide that. I already know it's going to be flawed but it still doesn't mean it can't be fun. It just will be ridicule-gif'd and heckled by the internet for claiming to be something it obviously isn't (a retro sprite based Sonic game picking up where 3 left off).

As for Sonic games I enjoyed many people on the internet didn't:

Sonic Unleashed was ripped a new one here but it turned out to be a decent game if you went into it understanding that it wasn't perfect. It wasn't anywhere near a top-tier game, but it was fun and playable (even though it had a werehog angle). I may get crucified for this but I liked the overworld cities. They were well populated, gave you reasonable tasks, and they were designed well enough. I still do agree that the game should have given you the option to just skip the hubworld to a quick jump menu select for levels. But then you'd just be playing the levels minus the game immersion (which I understand some people only care about levels only).

The wherehog sections were a mixed bag and the only level I could never get myself to enjoy was Eggman Land. But the game was definitely not crap and more on the B list level of games. That's good enough coming off such an utter failure as 2006 was. But people expect nothing but perfection so it was already set up for a fall before it ever hit the public.

I also liked SA1-2 on the Dreamcast. For time they were released, they happened to be decent games outside of the 2D only cult that developed around that time... I must admit they haven't aged well since their original release 10 years ago, but they still were enjoyable to me.

Of course the above mentioned games had camera issues, glitches, and odd gameplay elements but they did have good games under all that mess and happened to be fun if you could allow yourself to relax and just play them with an open mind. I think people hold the Sonic name to a really strange expectation level that would make any Sonic game 2D or not to never satisfy the fans as they are so polarized by this point.

:edited for punctuation:

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Of course the above mentioned games had camera issues, glitches, and odd gameplay elements but they did have good games under all that mess and happened to be fun if you could allow yourself to relax and just play them with an open mind. I think people hold the Sonic name to a really strange expectation level that would make any Sonic game 2D or not to never satisfy the fans as they are so polarized by this point.

That means the 3D games are terrible in their own right. It has nothing to do with it being close to the 2D formula.

Having a true open mind to it all would be to compare these games to something outside the Sonic brand. Would you be so tolerant with the same issues and a different mascot involved?

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

Would you be so tolerant with the same issues and a different mascot involved?

Absolutely. I don't expect perfection in games but I do expect them to be entertaining. As long as the game is playable and fun, I'll give it a rent at the very least. My intuition has yet to let me down. Sorry if my ideals don't fall in line perfectly with yours. :/

I also just letting people know where I stand on the whole 2D/3D Sonic debate. So you can either discredit my opinion or support it depending on how you feel about the game.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Absolutely. I don't expect perfection in games but I do expect them to be entertaining. As long as the game is playable and fun, I'll give it a rent at the very least. My intuition has yet to let me down. Sorry if my ideals don't fall in line perfectly with yours. :/

That's quite rich considering your defense for the Sonic Adventure series was not having an open mind about it.

Objectively speaking, other developers release games without the same glaring flaws that recent Sonic games have had. It's not a matter of "relaxing and being thankful that a game playable"(christ) it's about a standard and a curve being set. You say that the werehog segments were fun in their own right. But why should I play this if I can play God of War? Why should I play Shadow the Hedgehog if it's just some showhorned attempt at Rachet and Clank gameplay? You call it expecting nothing but perfection. Others think of it has playing other games outside of Sonic the Hedgehog.

 

[Ten-Song]

I honestly don't care what they do at this point, no one Sonic fan will/can be satisfied from what this thread tells me. I am not going to force myself to like it, but hopefully I can have fun with the game when it comes out.

Why do people keep saying this? It is not true, and will never be true. The easy way to appease people is to make a game that doesn't suck, and stop filling the series with bullshit gimmicks. The issue is not that fans are so intrinsically fractured and broken into so many angles that it's impossible to make them happy, the problem is that Sonic games suck now, and they're not worth playing, and Sega deserves all the scorn they get from people. Just because a subset of people are fine with broken to mediocre games that adhere to a brand, does not mean there's something wrong with the detractors.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Y'know, those Disney and Nickelodeon games by THQ are playable and fun in their own right , too.

Just sayin'.

 

[Teknoman]

Either way i'll download the Sonic 4 Ep.1 demo, and if I like it, i'll buy it.

 

[Piano]

Why do people keep saying this? It is not true, and will never be true. The easy way to appease people is to make a game that doesn't suck, and stop filling the series with bullshit gimmicks. The issue is not that fans are so intrinsically fractured and broken into so many angles that it's impossible to make them happy, the problem is that Sonic games suck now, and they're not worth playing, and Sega deserves all the scorn they get from people. Just because a subset of people are fine with broken to mediocre games that adhere to a brand, does not mean there's something wrong with the detractors.

Well, it is possible to have fun with a bad game. For instance, I really enjoyed Spider-man 3, but I can recognize that it's a pretty terrible game and most people would hate it.

 

[riceandbeans]

Why do people keep saying this? It is not true, and will never be true. The easy way to appease people is to make a game that doesn't suck, and stop filling the series with bullshit gimmicks. The issue is not that fans are so intrinsically fractured and broken into so many angles that it's impossible to make them happy, the problem is that Sonic games suck now, and they're not worth playing, and Sega deserves all the scorn they get from people. Just because a subset of people are fine with broken to mediocre games that adhere to a brand, does not mean there's something wrong with the detractors.

You are 100% wrong. Everyone has different tastes and will always, part of the reason Sega is torn. Some think Sonic only works well in 2D, others think Sonic can and has worked well in 3D to an extent. That is part of the problem. Broken mediocre games? Again, debatable. What we all can agree on is that we all want an amazing Sonic game, but don't spin this around that Sega's fanbase isn't split.