DryEyeRelief
Member
riceandbeans said:
Graphics clipping, falling through floors and a general lack of polish is not debatable.
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Sonic the Hedgehog 4 - Wii/PS3/360; downloadable episodic release - [Update: $15?]
- Thread starter Firestorm
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Graphics clipping, falling through floors and a general lack of polish is not debatable.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
Yeah, I don't buy that logic that Sonic fans are impossible to please.
Give us a good game and let's see how they react. They haven't done that yet, so we don't know.
Me, personally, I'm not that difficult to please. Shoot, I'm perfectly content with some of the work done on these amateur Sonic games. To please me, it just needs to be straight-forward skill-based 2D platforming with diverse and challenging levels(and NO gimmicks), the classic Sonic aesthetics(yes, this matters to me. I know it doesn't make "teh gameplayz" any better, but it makes MY experience more enjoyable, mmk?), and, of course memorable music.
A game like that would please a significant portion of the Sonic fanbase, I'd wager.
Give us a good game and let's see how they react. They haven't done that yet, so we don't know.
Me, personally, I'm not that difficult to please. Shoot, I'm perfectly content with some of the work done on these amateur Sonic games. To please me, it just needs to be straight-forward skill-based 2D platforming with diverse and challenging levels(and NO gimmicks), the classic Sonic aesthetics(yes, this matters to me. I know it doesn't make "teh gameplayz" any better, but it makes MY experience more enjoyable, mmk?), and, of course memorable music.
A game like that would please a significant portion of the Sonic fanbase, I'd wager.
riceandbeans said:
No it isn't. Just because Sega can't figure out 3D gameplay doesn't mean it's a problem of the fanbase. I remember being pretty skeptical of Mario 64 when I first saw it, as it was moving the series to 3D, but now I don't question Nintendo in that regard ever, because they proved that Mario can work in 3D. Not only did they prove that series can work in 3D, they proved that it can excel beyond its own expectations, as Mario Galaxy is one of the most blissful gaming experiences a person can have.
If there are people that claim Sega should stick to 2D, it's likely just because that removes a significant portion of risk in their mind. But considering Sonic Advance 2 and 3, and what has been shown of Sonic 4, I think even that is a flawed mentality to have.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
Chao said:I was bored and made this, thinking about this thread:
Sums it up for me
I use that nerd quote in reference to Sonic allllllllll the time. Cute pic!
riceandbeans
Member
Ten-Song said:
I agree, most fans just want a good game, but it goes beyond that. Perfect example, Sonic the Hedgehog for Xbox 360 and Playstation 3. Certain fans wanted a pure Sonic experience, others pushed to have more characters. What did Sega do? They budged and added more character.
Sonic Adventure 2 supposedly added more characters mid-development due to fan requests. Certain fans wanted a more mature Sonic game, others found the idea incredibly stupid, we got Shadow the Hedgehog. Sonic Heroes, certain fans liked exploration and others didn't. Next thing, we're looking for hermit crabs. Fans can't agree on what the perfect Sonic game is.
Upsidedown Fuji
Member
DryEyeRelief said:
Then why not play the games YOU want to? It's ok if you don't play Sonic games. So why bother with dopes like me and just give up posting about Sonic games. I'm not bending your arm to try them or to see them the way I do. I'm just giving my own thoughts and experiences. Jeesh.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
riceandbeans said:
Of course. Sega shouldn't listen to their fans. They should just go out of their way and create a good game without listening to mindless fanboy drivel.
If a small amount of Sonic fans cry because Shadow or Mighty the Armadillo isn't in the latest Sonic game, Sega needs to say, "STFU" and stop catering to a small minority while turning-off the vast majority.
Can you imagine what the Mario games would be like if Nintendo threw in every half-baked fan idea that they heard?
There's a place for stuff like that. Fan fiction and fan art. Keep it out of mah games, gosh durn it.
riceandbeans
Member
SonicMegaDrive said:
Exactly my point, good sir. Sega fucks up because of the split fanbase and mismanagement of their franchise.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
riceandbeans said:
Yep, yep.
If they just cast aside their need to try to cater to EVERYONE(and of course, failing) and concentrate on catering to the majority of gamers(not just sonic fans), it would be for the best for everyone.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Upsidedown Fuji said:
Your whole beginning post was about how you think these games get ridiculed unfairly. When you frame anyone with a differing opinion than you as being closed minded and having high standards for no reason, then you invite others to step all over your opinion. It's okay to enjoy "B-tier" (Werehog definitely aint no B) games but don't act like you have some sort of correct tolerance in an imaginary land of people who aren't willing to give Sonic a chance.
I don't really know what's up with Sega, to be honest. This may sound like I'm trying to be negative but I think they always use the "going back to the roots" as bullshit PR to try and hook longtime fans to continue to support the series, tugging at their hearts for games closer to the originals. I mean, didn't they say that Sonic 2006 was a game "going back to the roots" too?
I'd assume such PR claims would have died down by now, but maybe Sega realized they now need more to hook old fans in. Probably by claiming the game is in fact directly inspired by and following IN the footsteps of the classics. When, like every recent Sonic game, it certainly is not, even if marketed otherwise by Sega.
I'm with the people who think that if Sega didn't call this Sonic 4, there wouldn't be as much backlash and pessimism as there currently is. If this was called Sonic Rush: Blast Attack or some other name linking it with the current games, it'd still get the obligatory backlash, but certainly not enough as it is with the name Sonic 4. It stands out that Sonic 4 is trying to cash in on the whole "retro" revival and seems to be the only solid reason it even has such a name, but it can't even stand in the same grounds as what Capcom and Konami have done with new, classic-inspired games. It stands out more awkwardly than Big the Cat in anything that useless puffball is in.
I'd assume such PR claims would have died down by now, but maybe Sega realized they now need more to hook old fans in. Probably by claiming the game is in fact directly inspired by and following IN the footsteps of the classics. When, like every recent Sonic game, it certainly is not, even if marketed otherwise by Sega.
I'm with the people who think that if Sega didn't call this Sonic 4, there wouldn't be as much backlash and pessimism as there currently is. If this was called Sonic Rush: Blast Attack or some other name linking it with the current games, it'd still get the obligatory backlash, but certainly not enough as it is with the name Sonic 4. It stands out that Sonic 4 is trying to cash in on the whole "retro" revival and seems to be the only solid reason it even has such a name, but it can't even stand in the same grounds as what Capcom and Konami have done with new, classic-inspired games. It stands out more awkwardly than Big the Cat in anything that useless puffball is in.
infinityBCRT
Member
Then you either don't have the discerning eye or you are a post-Genesis Sonic fan. Anyone with a good eye for game and art design can see the obvious deviations from the Genesis games. And if they didn't want this to be judged that way among the Genesis Sonic fans, then they shouldn't have named it Sonic 4. They could have called it Sonic HD or Sonic Rush HD or something that doesn't make it sound like they are making a proper sequel to the original Sonic games.DeVeAn said:
Mama Robotnik
Member
Haunted said:
Yes yes yes a million billion infinities yes.
Haunted said:
That would probably be amazing, and supply Sega with enough good game design ideas to keep the series decent-good for the next few mainline entries. :lol
Heck, even if Sega kept developing their mainline Sonic, Nintendo making a Wii only Sonic series would still be fantastic. :lol
SonicMegaDrive
Member
How realistic would it really be for Nintendo to develop a Sonic game?
It's nice to dream, but let's be serious here.
They can barely spread their resources thin enough to develop their own games. I don't think they'll be making games for other people anytime soon.
It's nice to dream, but let's be serious here.
They can barely spread their resources thin enough to develop their own games. I don't think they'll be making games for other people anytime soon.
ColonelColon
Member
onken said:Just watched the Kotaku vids, urgh. The physics I can live with but the homing attack, man the homing attack. And what's with the awful arms/legs splayed high jump animation?
I really want to like this game but they're making it so hard
I don't know how you could live with the physics, honestly. I knew this game wouldn't live up to its namesake when I saw Sonic walking in place on a steep incline in the first leaked video. But apparently that isn't even the worst of it. Now we've seen that he can run perpendicular to the ground with no momentum whatsoever. That sort of shit is like heresy against the original 2D Sonic games. >_>
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Haunted said:
sonic4sonicrunning.gif
brawlsonicrunning.gif
KamenSenshi
Junior Member
i wish nintendo could get the ability to make a sonic game. too bad that wasnt part of their deal for the mario&sonic games, especially since everyone wanted it to be a platformer and we know there is no way they would allow sega to create a platformer with mario in it. as its didnt they have some nintendo supervision on the summer games? it would be they game to make people cry:lol
riceandbeans
Member
Foffy said:
Sonic Heroes - Sonic's going back to his roots with checkered board stages again and a visit from some forgotten pals!
Sonic the Hedgehog - Sonic's going back to his roots in an all new adventure featuring just the Hedgehog himself. To commemorate this achievement, Sega is going to be using the original title, 'Sonic the Hedgehog' to mark Sonic's hedgehog milestone on next-gen consoles.
Sonic Unleashed - Sonic's going back to his roots and in 2D again, in all-new side-scrolling adventure.
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 - Sonic's going back to his roots literally, by reusing the same stage themes and bosses from his previous games. Watch out Dr. Eggman, Sonic's coming to stop you and retrieve the Chaos Emeralds!
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Haunted said:
Even though my cold, black heart holds little more than hatred and despise for Nintendo, they'd most likely be able to make a far better Sonic game than Sega in its current state.
riceandbeans said:Sonic Heroes - Sonic's going back to his roots with checkered board stages again and a visit from some forgotten pals!
Sonic the Hedgehog - Sonic's going back to his roots in an all new adventure featuring just the Hedgehog himself. To commemorate this achievement, Sega is going to be using the original title, 'Sonic the Hedgehog' to mark Sonic's hedgehog milestone on next-gen consoles.
Sonic Unleashed - Sonic's going back to his roots and in 2D again, in all-new side-scrolling adventure.
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 - Sonic's going back to his roots literally, by reusing the same stage themes and bosses from his previous games. Watch out Dr. Eggman, Sonic's coming to stop you and retrieve the Chaos Emeralds!
Did they really do that?
Upsidedown Fuji
Member
DryEyeRelief said:
I invite others to step on my opinion because I'm STILL a junior here even after 1 year of slowly bulding up my count and I'd prefer not to step on the wrong person's toes and ruin my chances of becoming a fully fledged member.
I'm trying to be as polite as possible and if I come off as spinless or waffleish then so be it for now. I grew up with the 2D sonic but I can enjoy the 3D ones as well... I've said my piece and now you and others now know where I stand on the split in Sonic fandom.
So let's just leave it at that and agree to disagree.
AwakenedCloud
Member
At this point I'd just take a fan-modded Subspace Emissary. If they limited the moveset to one button, simplified enemies to one hit KOs, and made some decent levels I'd be in 7th heaven.
riceandbeans said:
Sega fucks up because they cater to the crazy side of the fanbase, and those people are more interested in new characters for them to write slash fics of than gameplay. What Sega needs to do is understand that no matter what these people say in protest, they are still absolutely 100% going to buy nine copies of anything that has Sonic's name on it.
What they should be doing is ignoring the fans and playing some of the older Sonic games, and actually reflect on what's gone wrong instead of trying to pass the blame off on various other factors. Sega has no one to blame but their selves.
Man. Today at work, I told this kid about Sonic 4, about how it was a sequel to Sonic 3/ Knuckles and cool it was going to be. He looked at me like I was making it all up and was bat shit crazy. He then proceed to tell his little bother about how Black Knight and other more contemporary Sonic games are better and that I didn't know what I was talking about. God fucking damnit :/ Look at what you have done Sega. Just look at it
:lol-PXG- said:Man. Today at work, I told this kid about Sonic 4, about how it was a sequel to Sonic 3/ Knuckles and cool it was going to be. He looked at me like I was making it all up and was bat shit crazy. He then proceed to tell his little bother about how Black Knight and other more contemporary Sonic games are better and that I didn't know what I was talking about. God fucking damnit :/ Look at what you have done Sega. Just look at it
Also, is there any actual video out there to make me believe in this game?
-PXG- said:Man. Today at work, I told this kid about Sonic 4, about how it was a sequel to Sonic 3/ Knuckles and cool it was going to be. He looked at me like I was making it all up and was bat shit crazy. He then proceed to tell his little bother about how Black Knight and other more contemporary Sonic games are better and that I didn't know what I was talking about. God fucking damnit :/ Look at what you have done Sega. Just look at it
One day about a year ago, I came home to see this 8 year old kid playing Wii Sports Resort.
His dad was installing some stuff in the house, but I like this setup because it was super out of the blue.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Ten-Song said:
Again, the 3d games being crappy have nothing to do with the 2d games.
You and I may not prefer it compared to the original stuff but Sega pretty much feeds their audience with poop on a stick because they get away with it. The QTE, time attack
3D sonic levels hold merit but are executed poorly. Sega coping out on each Sonic game goes beyond what we both want to see in the franchise.
The audience that plays the current 3d games play it for the running levels. So they should stop insulting the intelligence of their audience (they get away with it too) and just do a game with only running levels. No bullshit to extend the games lifespan outside of Sonic running. Not an alpha build's quality. Then maybe the people playing these games can extend beyond the people who watch his cartoon show every weekend.
jrricky said:
http://www.shogungamer.com/news/tons-leaked-videos-sonic-4
The physics and speed could use a few tweaks. This is footage from a partnership build but no guarantee anything will be changed between then and now. Just watch out for Act 2 of Lost Labyrinth as it's kind of hard to adjust to on the fly. The guy is rotating the screen everywhere+ it's being recorded from a cam corder. The guy is also playing in 4:3 not widescreen, so some of the game space on the edges is cut off.
OK, I just saw the minecart level and I almost threwup. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are there any developer blogs for this game? I want to know why they did this?
I think Sega is doing this on purpose to the Sonic fans now...:lol :lol
EDIT: I couldnt finish the video, but how did the person beat the level? :lol
I think Sega is doing this on purpose to the Sonic fans now...:lol :lol
EDIT: I couldnt finish the video, but how did the person beat the level? :lol
Upsidedown Fuji
Member
Lost Labyrinth's music reminds me a lot of Nickelodeon's Legends of the Hidden Temple game show series. I like it.
http://www.televisiontunes.com/Legends_of_the_Hidden_Temple_-_Full.html
Edit: Added a link to the opening theme if any classic TV nostalgia fan is interested.
http://www.televisiontunes.com/Legends_of_the_Hidden_Temple_-_Full.html
Edit: Added a link to the opening theme if any classic TV nostalgia fan is interested.
jrricky said:
He cant play the game very well, but you're just supposed to tilt a little in whatever direction you're facing to pick up speed, jumping over obstacles as they come.
Sure its a dumb idea in a Sonic game, but the player made it look even worse by over rotating or rotating in a direction that was the complete opposite of where the goal was.
Not sure why the programmers even allowed the player to rotate that much, but to make it through the actual stage, if you have a little gaming sense, you should be ok.
Im not defending the idea by any means, but after watching the videos a few times, you see that the person playing makes the stage look alot worse than it actually is.
Same for Sunset Hill Act 2 with the vines, and homing attack dashing all over the place/ not knowing how a vine works.
EDIT: Like in the gif, stop jumping so damn much, just rotate a little to the left to slide back, rotate to the right to build up speed, then jump. Simple.
I mean seriously, look at the video objectively. Why would you rotate that much at certain parts, or even make everything upside down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e5zh3AmQAA
Found it, crazy upload names :lol
If it was displayed at the right screen size, I bet that stage would be easy, and not very nauseating aside from the idea of being in a cart for a whole act.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e5zh3AmQAA
Found it, crazy upload names :lol
If it was displayed at the right screen size, I bet that stage would be easy, and not very nauseating aside from the idea of being in a cart for a whole act.
Upsidedown Fuji
Member
Yeah, I understand what you're saying but the carts already become a meme to this place. It's going to be hard to bring some logic into this. I would like to try it out for myself, a nagging feeling tells me it's not as bad as the original video makes it out to be. Though I don't deny that it's not the best of ideas to drop into this game.Teknoman said:
RobbieNick
Junior Member
NOTE: I meant to quote this, but forgot. Kinda made this post a little random at first. It's supposed to be a long reply.
Sonic still has his appeal not because his current games are great, but because he's broken out of being just a video game icon and is more of a licensed character. I mean, he's had four cartoons, long running comic books in both America and England. He's on T-Shits and Jackets in Hot Topic, has toys that sell out in Toy's R Us and Sonic X is still highly rated on Saturday Mornings despite not having a new episode in over three years.
Now, you might say, "Well, Mario's got all that Mechandise and cartoons too!" That's true. But, if you talk Mario to others, they'll only mention his video games. Mario had two cartoons in the late 80's/early 90's and they were pretty much identical in nature. They were adaptions of his game in some form or another, while Sonic's cartoons barely represented the games at all (outside of Sonic X) Mario's great in video games. In fact, "He's da best!", but out side of that, what's he got? His personality is very one-dimensional and inoffensive. His story of saving Princess Peach is used over and over again. He's vanilla. He's Mickey Mouse.
Sonic on the other hand, is more like Bug Bunny. He's got attitude. He's arrogant and cocky. He has a personality. Plus, his story's been interpreted in many different ways. He's a freedom fighter trying to take back his planet from an evil despot. He's the Road Runner with a mouth with Robotnik as the coyote. He's a sibling trying to find his mother. He's a big brother to a little fox. He's an all-powerful superhero Most of all "I'm just a guy who loves adventure".
Basically, if Sonic were to never make another video game, he'd still be around in some form or another. I doubt we could say the same about Mario.
Let me make an example. About a decade or so ago, I found out my cousin was a huge Sonic fan. He wore the t-shirts and watched the cartoons and read the comics. Thing is, his parents were very conservative and he didn't own a single game system. He was a big Sonic fan without playing a Sonic game. How about that?
SonicMegaDrive said:
Sonic still has his appeal not because his current games are great, but because he's broken out of being just a video game icon and is more of a licensed character. I mean, he's had four cartoons, long running comic books in both America and England. He's on T-Shits and Jackets in Hot Topic, has toys that sell out in Toy's R Us and Sonic X is still highly rated on Saturday Mornings despite not having a new episode in over three years.
Now, you might say, "Well, Mario's got all that Mechandise and cartoons too!" That's true. But, if you talk Mario to others, they'll only mention his video games. Mario had two cartoons in the late 80's/early 90's and they were pretty much identical in nature. They were adaptions of his game in some form or another, while Sonic's cartoons barely represented the games at all (outside of Sonic X) Mario's great in video games. In fact, "He's da best!", but out side of that, what's he got? His personality is very one-dimensional and inoffensive. His story of saving Princess Peach is used over and over again. He's vanilla. He's Mickey Mouse.
Sonic on the other hand, is more like Bug Bunny. He's got attitude. He's arrogant and cocky. He has a personality. Plus, his story's been interpreted in many different ways. He's a freedom fighter trying to take back his planet from an evil despot. He's the Road Runner with a mouth with Robotnik as the coyote. He's a sibling trying to find his mother. He's a big brother to a little fox. He's an all-powerful superhero Most of all "I'm just a guy who loves adventure".
Basically, if Sonic were to never make another video game, he'd still be around in some form or another. I doubt we could say the same about Mario.
Let me make an example. About a decade or so ago, I found out my cousin was a huge Sonic fan. He wore the t-shirts and watched the cartoons and read the comics. Thing is, his parents were very conservative and he didn't own a single game system. He was a big Sonic fan without playing a Sonic game. How about that?
RobbieNick
Junior Member
Ten-Song said:
Sonic Underground. Crappiest of the Sonic Cartoons.
DryEyeRelief
Member
DryEyeRelief said:
Hey, at least those Sonic cartoons gave us one of the most kickass animated intros ever
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4jd0UWGPgY
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