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[Iknos]

Wow, looks sweet! Can't wait to play it this summer.

4.5 seconds into the second try Sonic rolls up a ledge and is then unfurled. Does this not bother you?

FUCK YOU SEGA FOR NAMING THIS SONIC 4! This ain't Sonic 4!

Sega can call this Sonic Advance HD and I'd be ok with it.

Eh, you know what? No. The gameplay doesn't look fine.

Sonic reaches top speed way too quickly, which ends up propelling him into off-screen enemies way too often. Seriously. Watch the gameplay video on Youtube. Sonic barrels into the very first enemy. He's moving way too fast and the enemy blurs right into the background. How does that gameplay "look fine"?

What about the next couple of seconds, where Sonic roll-spins up that little ramp...only to go into some terrible neutral mid-air pose, and falls right onto the next enemy. How does that gameplay "look fine"?

Again, within another couple of seconds, yet another example of the "Slam into off-screen enemy because you're moving too quickly" crap. The gameplay does not "look fine."

There are homing attack markers flashing everywhere, too. For bouncers. For monitors. For enemies. For random scenery. The gameplay does not "look fine."

Furthermore, look at just how many boosters there are. Almost all of the level is nothing but boosters, bouncers and loop-de-loops. They're constantly pushing Sonic to move at top speed. There are only two real instances of actual platforming. Everything else is just speed speed speed.

The gameplay does not "look fine." lol

Hell, so far it just looks like the same old terrible 3D Sonic mechanics transplanted into 2D. Which is precisely what people were afraid of.

Thank you for this post. Comprehensive. If anyone doesn't get it...read this right here.

For all I know this game could turn out to be a disaster. But the backlash against that one video mystifies me and further hammers home the idea that the true hardcore Sonic fans are a damn scary bunch.

So you don't know what makes a good Sonic game. I can accept that.

Just don't call the ones that do a "damn scary bunch". These are the same people that called out past shit Sonic games.

It's sad that people's standards have dropped so low that "playable" manages to be an acceptable level of success.

Yeah.

The game is "playable" and you guys will hate it no matter what.

No...I'm going to stop hating it when it matches the standards of Sonic 1/2/3...which isn't unfair or unreasonable.

What is unreasonable is that people keep buying this and encourage Sega that they can give us anything and we'll buy it.

Sega and Sonic Team has been called incompetent and untalented...I want to start calling them "irresponsible" for handling their premiere mascot like this.

Yeah, Time Twisted is not perfect. But its a billion, trillion infinities better than this travesty.

Forget animations/graphics/whatever this is the sort of gameplay I want. Not perfect but so much more of what Sonic 4 should represent.

Actual. Fucking. Platforming.

I honestly don't care what they do at this point, no one Sonic fan will/can be satisfied from what this thread tells me.

Keep telling yourself that. I am pretty satisfied with the above posted fan game.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

that's a pretty damning post, for someone refuting their darn scariness.

 

[Stat Flow]

I love when people say "You sonic fans will never be satisfied"

Fuck all of you. Show me a game that has come out recently that is comparable to Sonic 1/2/3/&K (You know, the games that made us Sonic fans in the fuckin first place) in gameplay (AND CHARM - that means old sonic design, Dr. Robotnik not Eggman, Tails and Knuckles only, etc.) and we'll all be happy. Until then, fuck that noise.

 

[wRATH2x]

Number of times mentioned by random media personalities can hardly be used to measure a characters cultural significance. In the end it's all about recognition throughout the general population. And wasn't Mario the one that was found to be more recognizable throughout the world than Mickey Mouse (back when Mickey was still noticeable outside the parks)? Nintendo's renaissance over the last 5 years have arguably made Mario even more noticeable at this point, he's still synonymous with the company, while Sonic very much has faded away. Really Sonic still probably gets quoted because the quoter isn't quite "with it" enough to realize that the character has really fallen to the wayside over the last 10 years. They're probably just still stuck in the 90's.

That actually was Sonic during the 90's.

But even so, Mario is still more popular. You are pretty dumb if you try to argue that.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

Stat Flow, I'm having a lot of trouble taking you seriously with that icon.

 

[Nessus]

But no saturn game to combat mario 64,

I still think Sonic X-Treme looked amazing, and more fun than any of the subsequent 3D Sonics ended up. I love the fisheye lens effect, and that it would have involved actual platforming in addition to speedy sections. I thought the graphics were really good for a Saturn game, too.

Stupid Sega infighting.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I love when people say "You sonic fans will never be satisfied"

Fuck all of you. Show me a game that has come out recently that is comparable to Sonic 1/2/3/&K (You know, the games that made us Sonic fans in the fuckin first place) in gameplay (AND CHARM - that means old sonic design, Dr. Robotnik not Eggman, Tails and Knuckles only, etc.) and we'll all be happy. Until then, fuck that noise.

Personally? I'd say Sonic Rush Adventure but apparently I am in the minority and everybody seemingly flips out over a couple of extremely minor blemishes. But they did not negatively impact my enjoyment of the game at all.

The problem is that Sonic is a means to an end for Sega these days. They don't have to go out of their way to satisfy anybody with discerning tastes because for every person that complains about bad art design or slippery controls or inconsistent collision detection, there are ten kids who "don't know any better" begging their parents for the next Sonic game at Wal-mart. (I feel I should stress, however, that we were also those kids back in the day, except we were begging for Ninja Turtles and a $60 Optimus Prime).

Just about everybody who helped define the Sega Genesis Sonic games are gone. Either scared away by Yuji Naka's ego or left the company of their own volition. All you have left are guys like Takashi Iizuka, and though he worked on Sonic 3 & Knuckles, he was only an apprentice/intern under guidance of Hirokazu Yasuhara - one of those aformentioned "key figures".

So why should Sega expend the effort and the money to seriously rebuild Sonic as a respected franchise? They don't need to. They managed to release one of the single worst games of all 2006 and the franchise is still printing money for them. About the only reason they have to expend effort is because should the financial bottom ever drop out of Sonic, it's going to drop hard and fast - because at this point, anybody mature enough to have some sense is too cautious about this franchise to blindly buy these games anymore.

As I have said before, though, even if Sega somehow managed to actually make something worthwhile, it's too late. There are a lot of people in this very thread who already focus on things that don't actually fucking matter and declare that if Sonic's eyes aren't the right color, or a character isn't called by a specific name, then it's a bad game. Well you know what? Fuck you. That shit isn't as important as you think it is and you should probably stop thinking it's so important.

That's like people bemoaning a Mario game because she's Princess Peach now instead of Princess Toadstool. The only reason anybody gives a shit about Eggman vs. Robotnik is because subconsciously they attach that change to the franchise being flushed down the toilet. But here's the kicker: They can still call him Dr. Robotnik and make a bad game with it.

There will always be something "wrong" with Sonic, however superfluous, because there are certain things they will never "change back" for marketing reasons (and no matter how much you pray and hope and wish, "nostalgia street cred" is not good enough).

 

[wRATH2x]

I still think Sonic X-Treme looked amazing, and more fun than any of the subsequent 3D Sonics ended up. I love the fisheye lens effect, and that it would have involved actual platforming in addition to speedy sections. I thought the graphics were really good for a Saturn game, too.

Stupid Sega infighting.

It looked bad, horrible even. Sonic Adventure looks better and I'm sure plays better.

Sonic X-Treme really looks like shit, every time I saw it.

 

[OMG Aero]

Number of times mentioned by random media personalities can hardly be used to measure a characters cultural significance. In the end it's all about recognition throughout the general population. And wasn't Mario the one that was found to be more recognizable throughout the world than Mickey Mouse (back when Mickey was still noticeable outside the parks)? Nintendo's renaissance over the last 5 years have arguably made Mario even more noticeable at this point, he's still synonymous with the company, while Sonic very much has faded away. Really Sonic still probably gets quoted because the quoter isn't quite "with it" enough to realize that the character has really fallen to the wayside over the last 10 years. They're probably just still stuck in the 90's.

Well Sonic was voted the UK's favourite video game character a few years back. I don't know why but we just love Sonic for some reason.

Anecdotally speaking, everyone I knew as a kid had a Megadrive with only a fraction of them having a NES. So that might be why.

There's also the fact that we had the best Sonic comic.

 

[Android18a]

Yeah, at least when I was growing up in the 90s, Sonic was The Cool One to like. If you had a SNES, you were "a kid". Megadrive was the cool console with the cool characters

Sonic just hit a chord here in the UK.

 

[Stat Flow]

There are a lot of people in this very thread who already focus on things that don't actually fucking matter and declare that if Sonic's eyes aren't the right color, or a character isn't called by a specific name, then it's a bad game. Well you know what? Fuck you. That shit isn't as important as you think it is and you should probably stop thinking it's so important.

It is not those things that "don't matter" that people are mad at, it's what they represent.

Also, if sonic fans can make a good sonic game why can't Sega make one on the XBLM?

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Well Sonic was voted the UK's favourite video game character a few years back. I don't know why but we just love Sonic for some reason.

Anecdotally speaking, everyone I knew as a kid had a Megadrive with only a fraction of them having a NES. So that might be why.

There's also the fact that we had the best Sonic comic.

According to Wedbush-Morgan Securities (who Pachter works for, right?), Sonic was also the 11th most profitable videogame franchise of 2008, beating out Pokemon and World of Warcraft, among others. Still a far cry from the titans of the industry, but just barely edging out of the top ten isn't terrible.

And, despite no new episodes being produced for it in four or five years, Sonic X still runs on the 4kids Saturday morning lineup.

Edit:

It is not those things that "don't matter" that people are mad at, it's what they represent.

Also, if sonic fans can make a good sonic game why can't Sega make one on the XBLM?

Passion.

It takes a passion for the franchise and for making games to specifically make a Sonic fangame. The problem with passion, however, is that it's risky - you look at the things a fangame tries to get away with and some of those are definitely things Sega themselves wouldn't allow, strictly out of fear they would upset the "profitability" of the franchise (such as changing his name back to Robotnik).

Sega has no need for passion. They have a need for money. They don't need a Sonic that's good, they need a Sonic that sells, and they probably have an entire marketing team that dictates how the character should be portrayed from ever aspect and angle. And to that marketing team, you only change something when you're forced to, otherwise you risk upsetting the momentum a particular "product" has.

And considering Sonic is still skimming the top ten most profitable franchises, they would like to continue making money.

 

[Plasma]

Anecdotally speaking, everyone I knew as a kid had a Megadrive with only a fraction of them having a NES. So that might be why.

Same for me, everyone seemed to have a Megadrive I only knew one or two people with SNES.

The whole Sonic being more popular over here is bound to change soon though with all the kids growing up on the Wii and DS.

 

[Dabookerman]

He is in the UK. You still get occasional mentions of Sonic in mainstream media (Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear, for instance), Mario gets mentioned much more rarely (and nearly always as 'Super Mario').

When was this and what did he say?

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

I'm American, and even when I was in junior high(the Genesis' heyday), Sonic was the game all the kids talked about. Mario seldomly ever came into discussion.

Well, Sonic and Mortal Kombat.

 

[Magicpaint]

More people may talk about Sonic but Mario ALWAYS sold more, regardless.

I love when people say "You sonic fans will never be satisfied"

Fuck all of you. Show me a game that has come out recently that is comparable to Sonic 1/2/3/&K (You know, the games that made us Sonic fans in the fuckin first place) in gameplay (AND CHARM - that means old sonic design, Dr. Robotnik not Eggman, Tails and Knuckles only, etc.) and we'll all be happy. Until then, fuck that noise.

I loved Rush. It was different but insane fun. Loved the focus on speed and tricks. Sonic 2 is the only classic Sonic I probably liked more.

If this is like Rush and as good, I'd be plenty satisfied.

 

[beelzebozo]

sonic is almost like a great golf player who won a masters, lost a big match the next year, and hasn't been able to shake the yips since. so nervous and anxious to win another jacket that he fucks it up every time on the back 9.

 

[dark10x]

4.5 seconds into the second try Sonic rolls up a ledge and is then unfurled. Does this not bother you?

I can fully understand this, but I feel everyone is being much too harsh on this game. It looks like a reasonably fun platform game to me. People are getting too caught up on the details and ignoring the fact that it may actually be a fun game in its own right.

 

[spidye]

That actually was Sonic during the 90's.

But even so, Mario is still more popular. You are pretty dumb if you try to argue that.

mario is more popular, no argue in that but did scientists named a protein after mario???

 

[wRATH2x]

mario is more popular, no argue in that but did scientists named a protein after mario???

And that's relevant how?

 

[spidye]

And thats relevant how?

sonic is cooler.

 

[wRATH2x]

sonic is cooler.

Way past cool

Anyway speaking of cool. Sonic's has been trying his hardest to be cool for the last decade that it's funny. :lol

 

[Magicpaint]

I can fully understand this, but I feel everyone is being much too harsh on this game. It looks like a reasonably fun platform game to me. People are getting too caught up on the details and ignoring the fact that it may actually be a fun game in its own right.

But it's not classic Sonic, and that was what was promised. I think this could be fun but the expectations were raised much too high, so the reactions are expected. SEGA just can't make Sonic games of the 90s anymore...

 

[magicalsoundshower]

sonic is cooler.

If you poke around in the data files of the original System Shock for PC (released 1994), you'll also find a dummy enemy class named "SONIC THE HEDGEHOG". Looks like Sonic's "'tude" also made a stronger impression on the game devs from the era.

No, it doesn't appear anywhere in the game, if it did someone would've found it by now.

By the way, the Genesis Sonic games came out when I was in high school and I preferred Sonic to Mario because his games had more impressive graphics, until I finally figured out that Mario games tended to have more depth and better gameplay. The gaming mags I used to read usually tended to rate Mario games higher than Sonic games due to their higher complexity. Off the top of my hat, the magazine I used to trust most rated SMB3 95%, Super Mario World 94%, Sonic 1 82%, Sonic 2 82% and Sonic 3 85%.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

The gaming mags I used to read usually tended to rate Mario games higher than Sonic games due to their higher complexity. Off the top of my hat, the magazine I used to trust most rated SMB3 95%, Super Mario World 94%, Sonic 1 82%, Sonic 2 82% and Sonic 3 85%.

SMB3 deserves all the praise it gets, but rating the boring hackjob that SMW IMO is higher than Sonic 1 and 2? :|

 

[Mael]

If you poke around in the data files of the original System Shock for PC (released 1994), you'll also find a dummy enemy class named "SONIC THE HEDGEHOG". Looks like Sonic's "'tude" also made a stronger impression on the game devs from the era.

No, it doesn't appear anywhere in the game, if it did someone would've found it by now.

By the way, the Genesis Sonic games came out when I was in high school and I preferred Sonic to Mario because his games had more impressive graphics, until I finally figured out that Mario games tended to have more depth and better gameplay. The gaming mags I used to read usually tended to rate Mario games higher than Sonic games due to their higher complexity. Off the top of my hat, the magazine I used to trust most rated SMB3 95%, Super Mario World 94%, Sonic 1 82%, Sonic 2 82% and Sonic 3 85%.

Okay now that's an evidence that Sonic is more popular than Mario?
I guess I can use the trump card then?
2 movies by Holywood on Mario (that crappy movie with the smb3 reveal and super mario bros) Vs None?

 

[Moog]

I wonder how much the low quality of recent Sonic games has to do with all the original creators (the head guys) no longer working for Sega.

Yuji Naka, Hirokazu Yasuhara, and even Naoto Ōshima who designed Sonic and Robotnik (thanks wikipedia for the last two) have all left Sega over the years - Yasuhara right before the series started to dip in quality and Naka and Ōshima right before the series really started to get horrible.

Of course it takes more than a couple guys to make a great game, but the lack of good leadership in Sonic Team may have a pretty big effect on the quality of the games. For example, Mario still has its original creator (in some cases not having a direct involvement in the development of each game, but still providing a guiding hand) and is still a highly-regarded series. And even though Nintendo lost Gunpei Yokoi, Metroid has remained a high-quality series, possibly because Sakamoto is still there to guide the developers (although many would say that the series peaked at Super Metroid).

A converse example is when Mikami left Capcom. While RE5 was a decent game IMO, I'd say most people would rank it among the bottom of the main RE series. Even Phoenix Wright took a bit of a dip quality-wise when Mikami left Capcom (that might just be a coincidence, I'm not sure how involved he was in that series).

Allowing Sonic Team to run free in the state they are now will probably never produce a good Sonic game, nor will throwing another developer like Dimps into the mix. I'd like to see a Sonic game with Yasuhara leading the gameplay creation, Naka creating the physics engine, and Ōshima leading the character design. I think it would turn out pretty damn good, even if it wasn't a complete throwback to the Genesis games a la Mega Man 9 and 10.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

DUZ MARIO HAFF A FLOAT IN DAS THANXGIVING PARAD???

I BET HE DUSENT!!!

I wonder how much the low quality of recent Sonic games has to do with all the original creators (the head guys) no longer working for Sega.

Everything.

 

[Night_Trekker]

Okay, granted, I never played the 2006 game, or whatever Espio's from. But Shadow and Knuckles are fine.

A rancid pile of pixelated crap.

 

[eggybob]

The only good sonic friend is Tails, and maybe Knuckles.

 

[Mael]

DUZ MARIO HAFF A FLOAT IN DAS THANXGIVING PARAD???

I BET HE DUSENT!!!

:lol
But that's nothing over an obscure reference made by the Simpsons!!!!!!!!

Spoiler

I know they both appear in that episode where Bart steal a Bonestorm

Everything.

I doubt it, seriously they had nothing to with Brawl and Sakurai's team managed to make a better Sonic than everything Sonic team made in the last 7 years :-/

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

I doubt it, seriously they had nothing to with Brawl and Sakurai's team managed to make a better Sonic than everything Sonic team made in the last 7 years :-/

Yes, but Smash Brawl isn't a Sonic game. It's just a fighting game with Sonic in it, respectable as it may be.

Actually, Sonic appeared on da simpsons...TWICE!!!

Or so I'm told. It happened fairly recently, and I stopped watching The Simpsons.

 

[magicalsoundshower]

Okay now that's an evidence that Sonic is more popular than Mario?
I guess I can use the trump card then?
2 movies by Holywood on Mario (that crappy movie with the smb3 reveal and super mario bros) Vs None?

I was half-joking (which I thought was obvious). Let's put it this way: if you were susceptible to the "'tude" Sonic was supposed to portray, chances are that you may have tended to think Sonic was "cooler" than Mario. Apparently, this also applied to most game designers because as most of us know they tend to be huge manchildren. Let's not forget that there was a time when there were actually more Sonic clones than Mario clones on the market.

 

[Mael]

Yes, but Smash Brawl isn't a Sonic game. It's just a fighting game with Sonic in it, respectable as it may be.

Actually, Sonic appeared on da simpsons...TWICE!!!

Or so I'm told. It happened fairly recently, and I stopped watching The Simpsons.

All I'm saying is someone somewhere should be capable of doing it....just not Dimps and Sonic Team :-/

And recently? Well it's way hard for me to follow the new Simspons since I usually work during their airing (europe here) so ...yeah

I was half-joking (which I thought was obvious). Let's put it this way: if you were susceptible to the "'tude" Sonic was supposed to portray, chances are that you may have tended to think Sonic was "cooler" than Mario. Apparently, this also applied to most game designers because as most of us know they tend to be huge manchildren. Let's not forget that there was a time when there were actually more Sonic clones than Mario clones on the market.

notsureifserious.gif

I mean Sonic IS a Mario clone, and there's like billion of Mario clone to boot (Alex kid being one), I don't think you want to go that way I mean I myself started playinig in the last 80' and beginning 90' and I can tell you that we were FLOODED with fucking Mario clones.
Sonic clones? Aero the Acrobat? Bubsy? Zool? Rocket Knight if we stretch a little? Seriously I can't even tell you how much mario clones I played on the Gb since they were so fucking common.

 

[Calcaneus]

There's no reason a Sonic game with the "friends" couldn't be good, it just hasn't been done in a long while.

Shitty friends aren't the reason new Sonic games are crap, crap new Sonic games are the reason the friends are shitty.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

All I'm saying is someone somewhere should be capable of doing it....just not Dimps and Sonic Team :-/

Well...here's my thing.

You technically could get a respectable developer to do a new Sonic. But I don't think you're going to find one that will be able to make a Sonic game JUST THE WAY everybody wants it. I doubt even Nintendo would do it the way Yuji Naka and co. would have done it.

Technically, Dimps is a good developer, actually. They are one of the few out there that still churns out high-quality 2D games on a regular basis. Which is probably why Sega chose them.

But even though they're good, they're very different. Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush were good games, despite what some people will tell you. They're not my personal cup of tea, but I won't argue with their quality.

I guess the point is, would the Sonic fanbase be willing to settle for a Sonic game that's good but different? Because that's what they would have to settle on, outside of a miracle regathering of the original Sonic Team developers.

 

[Empty]

I don't understand why they couldn't have just copied what Capcom did with Megaman 9/10. I wouldn't have minded average level design compared to the originals, if they just managed to get the visuals, music, controls and animations on the money so it could feel right at very least. Instead we get mediocre looking design with a huge overemphasis on 'OOOOH SPEEED' along with the sketchy visuals, painful on the ears soundtrack along with weird camera placement and animations and it's all just yuk.

 

[andymcc]

Technically, Dimps is a good developer, actually. They are one of the few out there that still churns out high-quality 2D games on a regular basis. Which is probably why Sega chose them.

they should stick to fighting games.

 

[Sanic]

I told myself a long time ago that I was never again going to play a Sonic game as good as 1-3K, and with that in mind i'm able to enjoy (to a certain extent) a lot of other, more recent Sonic games, and i'm sure i'll have fun with Sonic 4 as well, despite its flaws.

Of course, I don't think many carry my viewpoint, as evidenced by this 184 page thread :lol It's hard sometimes not to get mad at what's going on, but you just gotta roll with it.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

I told myself a long time ago that I was never again going to play a Sonic game as good as 1-3K, and with that in mind i'm able to enjoy (to a certain extent) a lot of other, more recent Sonic games, and i'm sure i'll have fun with Sonic 4 as well, despite its flaws.

Of course, I don't think many carry my viewpoint, as evidenced by this 184 page thread :lol It's hard sometimes not to get mad at what's going on, but you just gotta roll with it.

hah, yeah right.

Every person who posted in this thread is going to buy the game and they know it.

 

[Mael]

Well...here's my thing.

You technically could get a respectable developer to do a new Sonic. But I don't think you're going to find one that will be able to make a Sonic game JUST THE WAY everybody wants it. I doubt even Nintendo would do it the way Yuji Naka and co. would have done it.

Technically, Dimps is a good developer, actually. They are one of the few out there that still churns out high-quality 2D games on a regular basis. Which is probably why Sega chose them.

But even though they're good, they're very different. Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush were good games, despite what some people will tell you. They're not my personal cup of tea, but I won't argue with their quality.

I guess the point is, would the Sonic fanbase be willing to settle for a Sonic game that's good but different? Because that's what they would have to settle on, outside of a miracle regathering of the original Sonic Team developers.

The thing is the last place I expected Sonic's animation being the right way was REALLY Brawl :-/
So yeah I don't think we can't get a few surprise here and there...
Dimps are indeed good at what they're doing but that's beside the point really, because without proper design (which is in the hands of Sonic Team) we can't expect something good AT ALL.

I mean look at Metroid Prime, they were supervised by Miyamoto himself to make sure that the product would be the way Nintendo wanted (and the result was beyond everyone's expectations).
Now imagine if Miyamoto went out of his way to suggest stupid idea that made no sense.
Well despite all of Retro's talent the end product would be subpar.
I think that's probably what's happenning here, I can't imagine the makers of Sonic Rush making something as horrid as the mine cart passage without corporate involvement.

so yeah when I say give Sonic to someone else, I mean use NO ONE from Sonic Team.

hah, yeah right.

Every person who posted in this thread is going to buy the game and they know it.

If it's the trainwreck we expect it is I would be dumb to miss it!
I really like train wrecks though.

 

[magicalsoundshower]

notsureifserious.gif

I mean Sonic IS a Mario clone, and there's like billion of Mario clone to boot (Alex kid being one), I don't think you want to go that way I mean I myself started playinig in the last 80' and beginning 90' and I can tell you that we were FLOODED with fucking Mario clones.
Sonic clones? Aero the Acrobat? Bubsy? Zool? Rocket Knight if we stretch a little? Seriously I can't even tell you how much mario clones I played on the Gb since they were so fucking common.

Sure, it's pretty clear Sonic would never have existed if it weren't for the Mario games. Thing is, the Sonic games still managed to put a spin on the scrolling platformer genre that was unique enough to constitute a new style of the genre, i. e. a platformer with fast movement starring a character with an "attitude" which is what most developers of platformers tried to emulate after Sonic had become big.

What's even more striking is that none of the "Sonic clones" from the era even approached the original, pretty much all of them were terrible because their designers obviously didn't understand what made Sonic playable and fun which always reinforced the idea that Sega had done something right to me. Sure, Rocket Knight Adventures may have been great but in my opinion its gameplay style is so unique and different that it would be really fair to call it a Sonic clone.

 

[Mael]

Sure, it's pretty clear Sonic would never have existed if it weren't for the Mario games. Thing is, the Sonic games still managed to put a spin on the scrolling platformer genre that was unique enough to constitute a new style of the genre, i. e. a platformer with fast movement starring a character with an "attitude" which is what most developers of platformers tried to emulate after Sonic had become big.

Except not really, there's not that much Sonic clones out there, it's like saying there's more Doom clones than Halo clones. It's not true and it's simply revisionist history.

What's even more striking is that none of the "Sonic clones" from the era even approached the original, pretty much all of them were terrible because their designers obviously didn't understand what made Sonic playable and fun which always reinforced the idea that Sega had done something right to me. Sure, Rocket Knight Adventures may have been great but in my opinion its gameplay style is so unique and different that it wouldnt be really fair to call it a Sonic clone.

That's the thing though, something that became more proheminent in subsequent games after Sonic came was an emphasis on exploration that is absent from Mario (due to its more linear nature).
Which leads to think that Mario in 3d is actually not so estranged from what was found interesting in Sonic (beside the speed)

 

[-PXG-]

My point is, they are still CAPABLE of making good games, right?

Ahem...

<<<<<

 

[Moog]

Ahem...

<<<<<

I don't really understand why that level exists.

Was there not one person who said, "Yeah... that might not be a good idea."

 

[panda21]

I don't really understand why that level exists.

Was there not one person who said, "Yeah... that might not be a good idea."

The Sonic Cycle will find a way.

 

[magicalsoundshower]

it's like saying there's more Doom clones than Halo clones. It's not true and it's simply revisionist history.

If you want to support your theory that any scrolling platformer is a Mario clone, are you sure you don't mean that the other way around?

Yeah and I indeed meant it wouldn't be fair to call Rocket Knight Adventures a Sonic clone.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

The Sonic Cycle will find a way.

I like how the actual definition of the Sonic Cycle no longer applies and it's simply become a new way of saying "This is a bad Sonic game".

 

[KamenSenshi]

sonic games now are basically like bubsy compared to sonic back then. just an imitation of a good thing.if these games could have ben released back then with a different character they would just be seen as bad clones.
is it really impossible for them to out source to artoon our prope for a change. if artoon out could turn out like sonic cd, prope like sonic 2.of course this is best case thinking.

 

[Souldriver]

There's no reason a Sonic game with the "friends" couldn't be good, it just hasn't been done in a long while.

Shitty friends aren't the reason new Sonic games are crap, crap new Sonic games are the reason the friends are shitty.

Seriously. This.


People desperately hold on to aspects of the original games, dismissing name changes, friends, new gameplay mechanics, different environments, ... as if these things are what made the original games great, or what made all the later games suck.

But the truth is, that if new things are implemented well in a game, and by doing so the game itself is great, it doesn't matter that Eggman is called Robotnik (really now, such a shitty complaint), that there are Sonic sidekicks, that there's a new move introduced, that the environments aren't exact copies of the Sonic I, ...

To stay on topic, look at Mario: the current games have almost nothing in common with SMB1. New moves, overall different gameplay mechanics, lots of friends and foes, tons of environments and sceneries, and lots of different types of games (rpg, sidescroller, ...). Apart from a few stinkers in each of the mentioned categories, nobody is going to nag about the Yoshi character, or that there's a wall jump or triple jump, or that Mario flies through space from planetoid to planetoid, ... Why? Because they're all part of great games.

It's shitty for a Sonic developer that the "die hard" fans won't allow anything else but an exact copy of the original games, and that everything new or different is considered the tainting of the "true Sonic". With such an attitude you'll never have a great Sonic game ever again, just go and play your Megadrive cartridges instead. However, the Sonic developers have placed this curse on themselves: every game that introduced new aspects, has ranged from mediocre to atrocious. Can't really fault the Sonic fans for clinging on to what they know was "good sonic": the Megadrive/Genesis games.